Very disturbing lawsuit

[John&LaLa]

The Pinto memo

 

More cost savings to settle lawsuits than to protect the gas tank.

 

 

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[John&LaLa]

NYPD has over 51,000 employees and they live/work in the world's #1 target for terrorism. Cruise ship crime is very low, relatively. Comparing the constant monitoring of a place like Times Square to a cruise ship is not very reasonable. There just isn't enough crime on a cruise ship to justify the personnel needed to constantly watch about 300 cameras.

Not sure the NYPD has to house and feed 51,000 employees either

 

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[BecciBoo]

 

Btw I'm not a liberal by any means...I'm just a clear logical thinker who can see the kid was the victim.

 

 

Yes he was, but the perpatrator was not RCCL. And what difference does liquor make? These "gentlemen" could have been just as abussive sober as drunk. It was their moral character that was at fault. And they should suffer the most extreme penalty. And just how easy do you think it is to determine just how drunk someone is? In many cases, it is extremely hard to detect...or do you think the bartenders should employ breathalizers.

 

A little levity on both sides of this issue would be nice. BTW, what does the cruise contract say about it?

[grab007]

Question: How many of you will never cruise on RCL again because this happened? I hear a lot of outrage. But how outraged are you really?

[SarcasmSpasm]

NYPD has over 51,000 employees and they live/work in the world's #1 target for terrorism. Cruise ship crime is very low, relatively. Comparing the constant monitoring of a place like Times Square to a cruise ship is not very reasonable. There just isn't enough crime on a cruise ship to justify the personnel needed to constantly watch about 300 cameras.

 

Fair enough. It was an exaggerated comparison.

 

But I stand behind my opinion that at 2 am more security measures should be in place by RCCL. Active monitoring, patrolling, enforcing curfews, etc.

[RDC1]

This is the classic legal situation of going after deep pockets if you can try and come up with any reason to drag them into the case. Part of the main drivers for doing so is because most companies will settle rather than going to court. So there is a big drive to bring the suit.

 

The perpetrators are responsible, but the ability of getting any large sum of money is very limited. So you go after anyone you can find that has lots of money (deep pockets) and sue them, even if they are really not responsible, all you need is a jury you can convince. This is a case that will not be decided on its merits. It will be won or lost in jury selection. The attorney bringing the case will try and get people of the jury that don't like large corporations or that will be swayed by the age of the victim.

 

Lets say you lived in a gated community, with an HOA of 3000. If the attack occurred there by an irate parent at 1am that caught the kid walking around the streets, would those of you that think Royal is culpable think that the HOA should be sued as well? After all they are responsible for the community.

Edited June 25, 2018 by RDC1

[RDC1]

Fair enough. It was an exaggerated comparison.

 

But I stand behind my opinion that at 2 am more security measures should be in place by RCCL. Active monitoring, patrolling, enforcing curfews, etc.

 

What services on the cruise ship are you willing to give up to staff that function? How much more are you willing to pay in your fare? The number of crew quarters is finite. If you add new ones you need to subtract others. Which cameras should they be actively monitoring? There are hundreds on the ship. Should they monitor them all. To cover them in any kind of reasonable fashion you would need a relatively large staff, similar to that in the security control area in a casino. That doesn't even get into labor for patrol.

 

Cruise ships are statistically safer than most towns of similar size.

[broberts]

And even on those that are viewed 24/7, someone's ability, willingness and capacity to discern actionable activity is quite suspect, especially at 2AM.

 

If the video feed was supposed to be monitored, (and I'm not suggesting that the one in question in this thread was), then the monitor must have the capacity and training to discern actionable activity at any time during the shift. Anything else is dereliction by the monitor and/or the employer.

 

Same could be said for the punk who tried to rape the teenage girl

 

Where in the world did you get the idea that the 13 year old victim in this case was themselves a criminal? Even the drunk criminal in this case only claimed an inappropriate comment.

[bigsmalltime]

So forget about the cameras for a moment....

 

They allowed a 13 yo to roam with being stopped. Yup it's up to the ship to know who is roaming the hallways and decks and library and bars....at 2am!!!!! Sorry rccl is in the wrong. Not the victim...not the parents

 

Adults should be concerned for their own safety too at this time

 

But while you are at it....why don't you suggest another scenario...how about this...

 

The parents put the kid to bed at midnight but he got up and went out while the parents were sleeping?

 

Or that the kid was roaming looking to be attacked?

 

All fantasy theory with no basis and NOT stated in the article...however...the ARTICLE states the cameras weren't monitored.

 

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In the ARTICLE (NBC 6) that someone posted earlier, the mom is quoted as saying the two boys "decided that they would want to stay out a bit later." So she knew and were ok with them being out and about. Maybe she expected them to be back before curfew and they just didn't listen to her, but she should still hold some responsibility.

 

I don't see how the cruise is responsible for the victim being out after curfew unless it can be proven that they saw the boys and blatantly ignored them.

[maggie cruises]

To many cameras.

 

Can you prioritize which ones?

 

Pools/hot tubs

Outside Promenade

Hallways

Bars

Casino

Solarium

Helipad

Theater

Library (maybe a reason to remove them)

Internet Cafe

 

I know I can't

 

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Actually at 2am the most remote spots in the ship are the ones that need the most surveillance

 

The casino needs cameras to stop cheaters but certainly not to stop an assault in a crowded casino

 

The library door should have been locked at 2am. No need for a closed in room to be open. It's a perfect spot for attack and the ship should recognize this. They shut down pools water slides etc at night at some published time don't they? Why is that I wonder? Oh yes to keep people safe

 

They put up wet floor signs

 

They rope off entrance to the open promenade decks during high winds. Again why is that? Oh yes...a safety precaution

 

The library should have set hours and then locked. No need for access to the library at 2am especially since they don't want to monitor its security cameras.

 

Bottom line is remote areas of the ship need the most surveillance

 

Either lock them or watch them.

 

 

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[ONECRUISER]

I’m simply saying that if a massive city can monitor one of the most well visited places in the world, why can’t a ship do the same?? They have the resources...

 

At 2am I expect a heightened level of security- whether it be a hotel, or cruise ship. This is the time when intoxicated people are roaming the ship and crimes are more likely to be committed. I don’t think that’s an unreasonable expectation.

It's not going to happen. Impossible to watch 300 cameras live 24/7, imagine the manpower required for that and increase security. You can't watch every hall, room, venue on the ship... Also no comparison to cruise ship/hotel and New York which happens to be World Wide target #1 for over 25 years ...

[lbjen]

This is the classic legal situation of going after deep pockets if you can try and come up with any reason to drag them into the case. Part of the main drivers for doing so is because most companies will settle rather than going to court. So there is a big drive to bring the suit.

 

The perpetrators are responsible, but the ability of getting any large sum of money is very limited. So you go after anyone you can find that has lots of money (deep pockets) and sue them, even if they are really not responsible, all you need is a jury you can convince. This is a case that will not be decided on its merits. It will be won or lost in jury selection. The attorney bringing the case will try and get people of the jury that don't like large corporations or that will be swayed by the age of the victim.

 

Lets say you lived in a gated community, with an HOA of 3000. If the attack occurred there by an irate parent at 1am that caught the kid walking around the streets, would those of you that think Royal is culpable think that the HOA should be sued as well? After all they are responsible for the community.

 

The Martin family’s out of court settlement was believed to be around $1m. I know that in my HOA, we have a couple of crazies who would be strongly discouraged from doing any night patrols in our neighborhood.

[maggie cruises]

In the ARTICLE (NBC 6) that someone posted earlier, the mom is quoted as saying the two boys "decided that they would want to stay out a bit later." So she knew and were ok with them being out and about. Maybe she expected them to be back before curfew and they just didn't listen to her, but she should still hold some responsibility.

 

 

 

I don't see how the cruise is responsible for the victim being out after curfew unless it can be proven that they saw the boys and blatantly ignored them.

 

 

 

Well I disagree about the ship not being responsible about the curfew. The victim had to walk down a corridor or take an elevator or something to get to the library. Those areas should have been monitored as well. I've never seen a library next to a cabin either. So he had to either get there somehow...or...and this hasn't been mentioned yet....lured there somehow

 

 

Why isn't anyone questioning why he would be there in the 1st place?

 

 

My take....

 

He was forced in there by the father and friend which makes it ever scarier that 2 men to get a 13 yo into the library without being noticed ....did they teleport themselves? Nope they walked across decks ...up or down stairs...plus they had to find the kid first. Very unsettling.

 

Just think it through...why would he go to the library on his own? Ever.

 

He was lured imho either by the father or perhaps the daughter....remember we don't know what he said to her....but my mind runs the gamut of the possibilities.

 

Imho everyone involved is a punk and fortunately the father and friend have been jailed...but the kid...probably a real winner anyway....is still a victim.

 

 

 

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[maggie cruises]

It's not going to happen. Impossible to watch 300 cameras live 24/7, imagine the manpower required for that and increase security. You can't watch every hall, room, venue on the ship... Also no comparison to cruise ship/hotel and New York which happens to be World Wide target #1 for over 25 years ...

 

 

 

But you either lock off certain areas like the library that are vulnerable at 2am or you put your manpower watching those vulnerable areas if you can't figure out they should be locked.

 

 

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[CruiseGal999]

What state and what law? My teens definitely roam on the ship (as they do in town), but I enforce the ships 1 am curfew (much to their dismay). 13 year olds babysit, they aren’t little kids. By 14 mine had paying jobs.

 

1 a.m. is WAY too late for a 13 yr. old girl/boy to be out ANYWHERE. NOTHING good happens between 12 midnight and 6 a.m. .... anywhere. It is a completely different world than when a lot of us were growing up.

[maggie cruises]

What services on the cruise ship are you willing to give up to staff that function? How much more are you willing to pay in your fare? The number of crew quarters is finite. If you add new ones you need to subtract others. Which cameras should they be actively monitoring? There are hundreds on the ship. Should they monitor them all. To cover them in any kind of reasonable fashion you would need a relatively large staff, similar to that in the security control area in a casino. That doesn't even get into labor for patrol.

 

 

 

Cruise ships are statistically safer than most towns of similar size.

 

 

 

Simple...get a key and lock ...the library and all other unneeded areas at 2am....which would include any remotely located area that someone could get into...but has no reason to be there at 2am

 

The ice skating rink comes to mind too

 

 

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[smplybcause]

Well I disagree about the ship not being responsible about the curfew. The victim had to walk down a corridor or take an elevator or something to get to the library. Those areas should have been monitored as well. I've never seen a library next to a cabin either. So he had to either get there somehow...or...and this hasn't been mentioned yet....lured there somehow

 

 

Why isn't anyone questioning why he would be there in the 1st place?

 

 

My take....

 

He was forced in there by the father and friend which makes it ever scarier that 2 men to get a 13 yo into the library without being noticed ....did they teleport themselves? Nope they walked across decks ...up or down stairs...plus they had to find the kid first. Very unsettling.

 

Just think it through...why would he go to the library on his own? Ever.

 

He was lured imho either by the father or perhaps the daughter....remember we don't know what he said to her....but my mind runs the gamut of the possibilities.

 

Imho everyone involved is a punk and fortunately the father and friend have been jailed...but the kid...probably a real winner anyway....is still a victim.

 

 

 

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There's what, at least 10 elevators per ship if you include crew elevators. Add in at least 2 elevator landings per floor, so 30 landings, plus stairs. You're easily talking 75 cameras before you even talk corridors which I would think at minimum would add another 100+ cameras. So how many people and space would it take to monitor 200 cameras that cover the corridors and elevators/stairs?

 

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[maggie cruises]

There's what, at least 10 elevators per ship if you include crew elevators. Add in at least 2 elevator landings per floor, so 30 landings, plus stairs. You're easily talking 75 cameras before you even talk corridors which I would think at minimum would add another 100+ cameras. So how many people and space would it take to monitor 200 cameras that cover the corridors and elevators/stairs?

 

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Those are the places that need monitoring ftlog. Someone falls on the steps. Someone is arguing or fighting in the corridors.

 

The atrium doesn't need the monitors...the remote areas do.

 

Again a simple solution...lock the unused areas so you don't need to monitor them...but the simple fact that there is a camera says rccl felt the library needed monitoring so why didn't they do it...or why didn't they lock it

 

 

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[RDC1]

The Martin family’s out of court settlement was believed to be around $1m. I know that in my HOA, we have a couple of crazies who would be strongly discouraged from doing any night patrols in our neighborhood.

 

Big difference with the Martin case was the shooter was a person performing an HOA supported activity. If Martin had been shot by a resident, not performing an HOA supported function I think that settlement would not have happened.

 

The equivalent in this case would be the assault being performed by a cruise ship employee.

[RDC1]

Simple...get a key and lock ...the library and all other unneeded areas at 2am....which would include any remotely located area that someone could get into...but has no reason to be there at 2am

 

The ice skating rink comes to mind too

 

 

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Far more issues, when they do occur, take place in the cabins on cruise ships, not the public areas. So if the assault had taken place in a cabin then is RCL still culpable?

 

I would expect that the primary reason for the camera in the library is to be able to determine the culprit in case of theft or damage to the room.

[maggie cruises]

Same could be said for the punk who tried to rape the teenage girl

 

 

 

And you read this where? I read he made an inappropriate comment.

 

Please link your source

 

 

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[Jarmo]

Library was an open area, no doors to lock.

[maggie cruises]

This is the classic legal situation of going after deep pockets if you can try and come up with any reason to drag them into the case. Part of the main drivers for doing so is because most companies will settle rather than going to court. So there is a big drive to bring the suit.

 

The perpetrators are responsible, but the ability of getting any large sum of money is very limited. So you go after anyone you can find that has lots of money (deep pockets) and sue them, even if they are really not responsible, all you need is a jury you can convince. This is a case that will not be decided on its merits. It will be won or lost in jury selection. The attorney bringing the case will try and get people of the jury that don't like large corporations or that will be swayed by the age of the victim.

 

Lets say you lived in a gated community, with an HOA of 3000. If the attack occurred there by an irate parent at 1am that caught the kid walking around the streets, would those of you that think Royal is culpable think that the HOA should be sued as well? After all they are responsible for the community.

 

 

 

Most people know that you need to initially sue any and all that could be liable...then the judge certifies who should or shouldn't be sued. You need to do this so as to be sure all possible defendants are considered.

 

The judge has already said rccl is the defendant that the plaintiff should be suing

 

Btw...posters will imply that means I'm saying rccl is guilty...nope...I'm saying the judge is saying if anyone can be held responsible...rccl might be the one

 

 

 

 

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[John&LaLa]

Actually at 2am the most remote spots in the ship are the ones that need the most surveillance

 

The casino needs cameras to stop cheaters but certainly not to stop an assault in a crowded casino

 

The library door should have been locked at 2am. No need for a closed in room to be open. It's a perfect spot for attack and the ship should recognize this. They shut down pools water slides etc at night at some published time don't they? Why is that I wonder? Oh yes to keep people safe

 

They put up wet floor signs

 

They rope off entrance to the open promenade decks during high winds. Again why is that? Oh yes...a safety precaution

 

The library should have set hours and then locked. No need for access to the library at 2am especially since they don't want to monitor its security cameras.

 

Bottom line is remote areas of the ship need the most surveillance

 

Either lock them or watch them.

 

 

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Library is open 24/7

 

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[smplybcause]

Those are the places that need monitoring ftlog. Someone falls on the steps. Someone is arguing or fighting in the corridors.

 

The atrium doesn't need the monitors...the remote areas do.

 

Again a simple solution...lock the unused areas so you don't need to monitor them...but the simple fact that there is a camera says rccl felt the library needed monitoring so why didn't they do it...or why didn't they lock it

 

 

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I have no idea what ftlog means.

 

You didn't answer my question.

 

And I would bet royal has all public spaces under surveillance - it's not like the library is the only place. And there's plenty of nooks on ships that can't simply be locked up.

 

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