What’s included on other lines that’s an extra charge on NCL?

[ALWAYS CRUZIN]

Please. You can do whatever you want. That I have nothing to say about. I am only stating my reason and my findings for myself and showing them.  As for the Mardi Gras Booked for Halloween. Always do Carnival for Halloween. The others were very boring. Our cost for that one. Including port and tax $129.00 pp pd plus receive a $350.00 OBC again a picked OV. So, enjoy your cruise and more. I am not trying, by no means, to change anyone's mind. It is only my opinion of NCL and nothing more. I only stated what I did because I do not line the way they show the so called FREE perks. No other reason.

[momofmeg]

On 6/3/2019 at 11:26 AM, SantaFeFan said:

 

Of course the do! They provide it for those who feel they had better than expected service. It is not necessary to enter anything on that line. Do so only if you want to, not because it is staring you in the face.  Consider it like the tip jar on the counter at Starbucks.

Well tip jars are there because it consider etiquette to tip. So yes if I buy a Starbucks coffee I  add a tip to the jar. If I don't want to tip then I just grab a  latte at MacDonalds who has no tip jar because  tips are not required.

 

But then again even though most cruise lines now automatically add a service charge; where the norm  used to be  tips you paid out in cash with only a suggested guideline of  how much to tip, we have still been known to give  our main dining  servers or  our steward  a little extra. Maybe that is why I am not bothered, we do it it anyway.

[Aquahound]

NCL is the Spirit Airlines of the cruise industry.  Attract people at a low cost and then hit them with extra charges for things that are free on other lines.  The gratuities on the included beverage package and specialty dining package has been beat to death so that's all I'll say about that.  Additionally is the room service charge, the charge to have free pizza delivered to you, the fact the beverage package doesn't include specialty coffees, soda and bottled water like on other lines, the charge for some entertainment, the big push toward specialty restaurants because their MDR food is the worst in the industry (my opinion, of course).  Remember when NCL tried to ban you from taking food out of the buffet in order to push people toward the for-fee room service? 

 

But all that said, I was impressed with my cruise on Escape.  I think their product has greatly improved with the release of Breakaway and later ships.  Besides, my conscious would rather cruise a line that cuts costs with extra little fees than cruise on a line that cuts costs by illegally dumping (Carnival, HAL and Princess) and to date, has had to pay over $60 million in fines. 

[sparks1093]

1 hour ago, Aquahound said:

NCL is the Spirit Airlines of the cruise industry.  Attract people at a low cost and then hit them with extra charges for things that are free on other lines.  The gratuities on the included beverage package and specialty dining package has been beat to death so that's all I'll say about that.  Additionally is the room service charge, the charge to have free pizza delivered to you, the fact the beverage package doesn't include specialty coffees, soda and bottled water like on other lines, the charge for some entertainment, the big push toward specialty restaurants because their MDR food is the worst in the industry (my opinion, of course).  Remember when NCL tried to ban you from taking food out of the buffet in order to push people toward the for-fee room service? 

 

But all that said, I was impressed with my cruise on Escape.  I think their product has greatly improved with the release of Breakaway and later ships.  Besides, my conscious would rather cruise a line that cuts costs with extra little fees than cruise on a line that cuts costs by illegally dumping (Carnival, HAL and Princess) and to date, has had to pay over $60 million in fines. 

I'm not sure about attracting people at a low cost. The last comparison that I made was when I booked our cruise that we took in April. NCL came in at $3600 (including the added gratuities for the "free" stuff). Royal came in at $1880 (plus around $750 for a pair of drink packages). The ships were about the same size and age sailing from the northeast and the prices were for mid-ship balcony cabins. Yes, they do offer some good deals if you can wait to book until a couple of months before sailing but before that I think their fares are above everyone else's (at least that's the way it is every time we've booked).

[calliopecruiser]

7 hours ago, momofmeg said:

Well tip jars are there because it consider etiquette to tip.

No, tip jars are there because they want to make you think you're supposed to do it, not because it's good etiquette to tip someone for handing you a cup of coffee.   I don't know why you'd tip someone in Starbucks, but not in McDonalds -- aren't they working equally as hard, for approximately equal wages?

 

People don't tip because it's polite (i.e. proper etiquette), they tip (in N.A.) because they've been taught that it's a requirement, and that's supported by the fact that the government allows wait staff to be paid a lower wage than other service employees.   That's not the same in Europe, and one of the reasons it's not (and never been) the custom in Europe .

[navybankerteacher]

1 hour ago, calliopecruiser said:

...

 

People don't tip because it's polite (i.e. proper etiquette), they tip (in N.A.) because they've been taught that it's a requirement, and that's supported by the fact that the government allows wait staff to be paid a lower wage than other service employees.   That's not the same in Europe, and one of the reasons it's not (and never been) the custom in Europe .

“ ...not (and never been) the custom in Europe.” ?  

 

“Never” is a very long time — Europe existed well before your memory begins, and a lot of things happened there which may not now happen.

 

[ldubs]

3 hours ago, calliopecruiser said:

 

People don't tip because it's polite (i.e. proper etiquette), they tip (in N.A.) because they've been taught that it's a requirement, and that's supported by the fact that the government allows wait staff to be paid a lower wage than other service employees.   That's not the same in Europe, and one of the reasons it's not (and never been) the custom in Europe .

 

I would say it is a custom as opposed to a requirement.  The gov't does not allow wait staff to earn less than minimum wage.  I think you are misunderstanding the system in place to account for tips in the minimum wage calculations.   

[SantaFeFan]

4 hours ago, calliopecruiser said:

" ...not (and never been) the custom in Europe."

 

2 hours ago, navybankerteacher said:

“ ...not (and never been) the custom in Europe.” ?  

 

“Never” is a very long time — Europe existed well before your memory begins, and a lot of things happened there which may not now happen.

 

 

Source: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gratuity

 

The practice of tipping began in Tudor England. "By the 17th century, it was expected that overnight guests to private homes would provide sums of money, known as vails, to the host's servants. Soon afterwards, customers began tipping in London coffeehouses and other commercial establishments".

 

So, the despised-by-the-Brits tipping culture was invented by the Brits. How ironic!   LOL!

 

 

Edited June 7, 2019 by SantaFeFan

[calliopecruiser]

16 minutes ago, ldubs said:

The gov't does not allow wait staff to earn less than minimum wage.  I think you are misunderstanding the system in place to account for tips in the minimum wage calculations.   

But they do have a different and lower guaranteed minimum wage for service people......as I said, they allow that wait staff can earn less than people in other service jobs unless the public picks up the difference by tipping them.   Employers are supposed to make up the difference for any week, but that assumes that the employers don't claim that the tips are higher than they actually were -- it's a lousy system ripe for abuse that will allow wait staff to earn less if tips - or their share of the tips -  are poor (but employers claim otherwise)

[calliopecruiser]

9 minutes ago, SantaFeFan said:

the despised-by-the-Brits tipping culture was invented by the Brits.

Is it despised by the Brits?  I didn't realize.  Since this Brexit thing has been dragged out, I've kind of stopped thinking of the UK as part of Europe these days.

[sloopsailor]

4 hours ago, calliopecruiser said:

  That's not the same in Europe, and one of the reasons it's not (and never been) the custom in Europe .

 

Before you state such blatantly false comments, educate yourself first. 

 

Tipping is quite common in Europe. Not as common as in the US, but still alive and well in many areas. Even a five minute Google search will educate you as to where and how much it is expected. And tipping has been common for generations. I have traveled in dozens of countries in Europe and always researched and then followed the local customs, which often including tipping. I would expect any traveler to any country to do the same - even when visiting the US. Being a guest in someone else's country means we should respect their customs and not impose our own on them. They are allowing us to visit their country and we should be gracious visitors and not look down our noses at how they do things differently. And that works both ways. 

 

Edited June 7, 2019 by sloopsailor

[SantaFeFan]

46 minutes ago, calliopecruiser said:

But they do have a different and lower guaranteed minimum wage for service people......as I said, they allow that wait staff can earn less than people in other service jobs unless the public picks up the difference by tipping them.   Employers are supposed to make up the difference for any week, but that assumes that the employers don't claim that the tips are higher than they actually were -- it's a lousy system ripe for abuse that will allow wait staff to earn less if tips - or their share of the tips -  are poor (but employers claim otherwise)

 

Most people who rely on tips prefer this system. They typically earn more than an hourly wage would give them, and depending on their anti-tax views, they can "accidentally" forget to claim some or all of it when doing their taxes each year.

 

Union hotel waiters in NYC make a minimum of $13/hour up to $25/hour as their wage and then make around $200-$250 per night on top of that. And some waiters in upscale restaurants make around $1500-$1800/week before taxes for a four or five day work week. That's around $80,000 per year. That is pretty good income for a job that doesn't require a college degree.

 

Source: https://www.quora.com/How-much-do-servers-at-high-end-restaurants-make-per-year

Edited June 7, 2019 by SantaFeFan

[GUT2407]

If they prefer the system they also can’t wage when they don’t get as much of a tip as they want or expect, can’t have it both ways.

[brillohead]

Good grief, how did this turn into a tipping thread?  

Instead of "all roads lead to Rome" instead we have "all threads lead to tipping"????

[ldubs]

4 hours ago, calliopecruiser said:

But they do have a different and lower guaranteed minimum wage for service people......as I said, they allow that wait staff can earn less than people in other service jobs unless the public picks up the difference by tipping them.   Employers are supposed to make up the difference for any week, but that assumes that the employers don't claim that the tips are higher than they actually were -- it's a lousy system ripe for abuse that will allow wait staff to earn less if tips - or their share of the tips -  are poor (but employers claim otherwise)

 

No, the Federal minimum wage, or a State's minimum wage if higher, applies to service people.  In fact I believe my state does not even allow for the gratuity offset in the minimum wage calculation, but I"m not sure of that.   

 

I think there could be reporting abuse by both employee and employer.   

 

 

[sparks1093]

9 hours ago, calliopecruiser said:

But they do have a different and lower guaranteed minimum wage for service people......as I said, they allow that wait staff can earn less than people in other service jobs unless the public picks up the difference by tipping them.   Employers are supposed to make up the difference for any week, but that assumes that the employers don't claim that the tips are higher than they actually were -- it's a lousy system ripe for abuse that will allow wait staff to earn less if tips - or their share of the tips -  are poor (but employers claim otherwise)

I know a lot of people that work for tips and their chief complaint- they aren't given enough hours to work. That's a complaint of many people that I know that work for a set hourly wage, they don't get full time hours. And the IRS has really cracked down on tipped employees and levied heavy fines to both employers and employees for under-reporting. It's certainly not a perfect system but it's harder to under-report now than in the past. In fact if you don't leave a tip that hurts the employee twice- they don't get the tip and the employer has to include what should have been the tip in the employee's wages. And I can also reinforce what others have said- tipping is still a practice in Europe, even in England where it's supposedly loathed. It may not be as high of a percentage but it's still there.

[mjkacmom]

8 hours ago, ldubs said:

 

No, the Federal minimum wage, or a State's minimum wage if higher, applies to service people.  In fact I believe my state does not even allow for the gratuity offset in the minimum wage calculation, but I"m not sure of that.   

 

I think there could be reporting abuse by both employee and employer.   

 

 

Many states have different minimum wages for servers, in my state it is $2.13 an hour.

[John Bull]

10 hours ago, brillohead said:

Good grief, how did this turn into a tipping thread?  

Instead of "all roads lead to Rome" instead we have "all threads lead to tipping"????

 

Yes, I had to scroll to to top to remind myself of the thread title. 

But everyone seems to be ignoring you, and jumping on the tipping bandwagon 

And taking a pot at us Brits - so I gotta respond  .............................

 

12 hours ago, SantaFeFan said:

 

 

Source: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gratuity

 

The practice of tipping began in Tudor England. "By the 17th century, it was expected that overnight guests to private homes would provide sums of money, known as vails, to the host's servants. Soon afterwards, customers began tipping in London coffeehouses and other commercial establishments".

 

So, the despised-by-the-Brits tipping culture was invented by the Brits. How ironic!   LOL!

 

 

 

 

Yes it began in Europe, possibly Britain.

But if it was around in the 17th Century it couldn't have started in America - I don't think the native Americans had a tipping culture.  

 

But no, tipping is most certainly not "despised" by Brits.

What's despised is the expectation of tips as a right, regardless of standards, and at a vastly higher rate.

As one US Cruise Critic member posted in reply to a Brit who wanted to remove the daily charge in order to tip whoever they chose, "who do you think is going to serve your meals if you don't tip". In Europe, serving the food is part of the deal, included in the sticker price, and the server's wages taken into account in that pricing - that unworldly Brit saw tipping as a reward for good service, same as in Europe, 

In Europe, those who serve are paid a living wage by the employer - same as those who work in factories and offices and a million other places in the States where there's no tipping culture - and of course the Brit expectation is that serving the stuff is included in the cost, no different to getting your car serviced or your trash collected, with a tip as a little extra bunce for good service.

 

I've not looked for proof-positive, but I'm pretty certain that set restaurant service charges started in the States - they were never around in the UK or Europe when I was a kid, but now they're prevalent in tourist areas.

But not in places frequented by locals.

 

JB  

Edited June 7, 2019 by John Bull

[navybankerteacher]

51 minutes ago, John Bull said:

 

...

 

I've not looked for proof-positive, but I'm pretty certain that set restaurant service charges started in the States - they were never around in the UK or Europe when I was a kid, but now they're prevalent in tourist areas.

But not in places frequented by locals.

 

JB  

I first saw “Service” added to the tab in France - and only more recently in some US restaurants.   I do feel that serving the meal should be “part of the deal” — and particularly think that a built-in 15% or even the sometimes-seen 20% is annoying.  The percentage creep is absurd - what used to be a traditional 10% when a meal might cost $10. is often 20% on that same meal costing $50. The $1 tip has grown to $10 - ten times as much, while the underlying meal is five times as much.

 

On the other hand, I believe in incentive compensation — a waiter who goes out of his way to inform and provide good service certainly deserves more compensation than the (too-often experienced) disinterested one who simply slaps down a plate - which might have gotten cold while he was chatting with someone else.  So, even when I have to pay a built-in “service”, I will still leave a bit extra in recognition of above-par service.

 

 

 

 

[ldubs]

1 hour ago, mjkacmom said:

Many states have different minimum wages for servers, in my state it is $2.13 an hour.

 

I think there is some confusion.  That is not a minimum wage.  That is the Federal maximum for tip offsets that an employer may use.  The minimum wage is the same as required for other workers.  

[ldubs]

1 hour ago, John Bull said:

 

Yes, I had to scroll to to top to remind myself of the thread title. 

But everyone seems to be ignoring you, and jumping on the tipping bandwagon 

And taking a pot at us Brits - so I gotta respond  .............................

 

 

 

Yes it began in Europe, possibly Britain.

But if it was around in the 17th Century it couldn't have started in America - I don't think the native Americans had a tipping culture.  

 

But no, tipping is most certainly not "despised" by Brits.

What's despised is the expectation of tips as a right, regardless of standards, and at a vastly higher rate.

As one US Cruise Critic member posted in reply to a Brit who wanted to remove the daily charge in order to tip whoever they chose, "who do you think is going to serve your meals if you don't tip". In Europe, serving the food is part of the deal, included in the sticker price, and the server's wages taken into account in that pricing - that unworldly Brit saw tipping as a reward for good service, same as in Europe, 

In Europe, those who serve are paid a living wage by the employer - same as those who work in factories and offices and a million other places in the States where there's no tipping culture - and of course the Brit expectation is that serving the stuff is included in the cost, no different to getting your car serviced or your trash collected, with a tip as a little extra bunce for good service.

 

I've not looked for proof-positive, but I'm pretty certain that set restaurant service charges started in the States - they were never around in the UK or Europe when I was a kid, but now they're prevalent in tourist areas.

But not in places frequented by locals.

 

JB  

 

Six of us had sandwiches and brews at a place out in Bloomsbury.  They added 15% service charge and it sure didn't look optional.  I didn't think the area was especially touristy but who knows.  Maybe it was because we were six, I don't know.   Not a big deal but we were a little surprised.   

[QuangFre]

Almost all cruise companies do not follow minimum wage requirements of different governments since their ships are from different countries . Many crew members from 3rd world countries like Indonesia, India barely make $3 an hour and they typically work 14-16 hours a day.

I think our gratuities more than cover their wages. Sad but true for these cruiselines.

[sparks1093]

2 minutes ago, QuangFre said:

Almost all cruise companies do not follow minimum wage requirements of different governments since their ships are from different countries . Many crew members from 3rd world countries like Indonesia, India barely make $3 an hour and they typically work 14-16 hours a day.

I think our gratuities more than cover their wages. Sad but true for these cruiselines.

When most of the crew can make 2 to 4 times what they could earn at home it puts things in perspective. 

[navybankerteacher]

Some New York restaurants now note that a service charge of 15% will be added to tabs for parties of six or more.   I imagine this is because when figuring what to add a lot of people balk at any large fugure - and when you have eight  people at (say) $90 a head, that 15 %  comes to $118 - which  they will see as a lot, and be inclined to shave it.

[SantaFeFan]

2 minutes ago, sparks1093 said:

When most of the crew can make 2 to 4 times what they could earn at home it puts things in perspective. 

 

And they know how the wage system works and willingly accept it. With tips, they make a pretty good wage for where they come from. No, these people are not being taken advantage of by the cruise lines. They certainly are from people who remove the gratuities, however.