What’s included on other lines that’s an extra charge on NCL?

[Texas Tillie]

1 hour ago, brillohead said:

Wow, condescending much?  

I specifically said that some people want all the extras, and some people don't.  I also said that everyone is entitled to the vacation type they want -- fancy or not -- and that the vast majority of people wouldn't be able to cruise at all if a super-fancy cruise were the only option available.  

And I'm not sure what my choosing to have a "basic" cruise experience (which is still way more luxurious a vacation than the majority of North Americans will experience) has to do with your comment about mega ships?  There are fancy suites on big ships and on little ships, just as there are inside rooms on big ships and little ships.  My spending habits are the same on Explorer class as they are on Oasis class.  My spending habits on Royal are also the same as they were on Carnival, Holland American, Celebrity, and Princess.  

I don't look down my nose at you for spending tens of thousands of dollars on a cruise -- I'm glad that there are luxury lines that suit your needs.  The fact that you look down your nose at everyone who doesn't cruise a luxury line says an awful lot about your character, however.  

 

Me thinks you are a little too sensitive and are just looking to be offended. Chill.

Edited May 24, 2019 by Texas Tillie

[navybankerteacher]

8 hours ago, SantaFeFan said:

 

Considering that fares today are low compared to when cruise lines provided higher quality food in the MDR, I don't understand why you are complaining. You can't enjoy more affordable fares and then complain about a lower level of service and food quality as a result. That is unrealistic and a naive. If you want the same quality as "the good old days", then cruise on a luxury line and you won't have a reason to complain. They offer an experience more like what cruising used to be when only the rich could afford to cruise. 

 

Wait, on second thought, never mind. Then the high cost of the cruise is what will be complained about.  Sigh!

 This thread is about how NCL out-does other lines when it comes to extra charges - not about the economics of cruising generally.  Of course all mass market lines are cutting things here and there —- but  I believe NCL stands alone  in really pushing specialty restaurants as a source of revenue — by the extreme cuts in the quality of what is included and the great variety (and prices) of their many alternatives.

 

 

[sparks1093]

 

9 hours ago, navybankerteacher said:

Because the level of service and the quality of the food in the MDR is being continually down-graded while more and more specialty restaurants are being added, the entire food service operation should be seen as “nickle and diming” (or perhaps “Jacksoning and Granting”) for those who want reasonably good food reasonably well served.

Based on our one experience in an NCL specialty restaurant I would say they aren't necessarily all they are cut out to be. We ate in the Italian specialty restaurant once and the service was so-so (acceptable, but not top notch). The decor' was ok and with an Italian feel but I'm not big on decor. Our appetizers were nicely done and dessert was as well. We both ordered chicken parm and it was tasty but the spaghetti that went with it was lackluster. The noodle were cooked to the consistency of canned spaghetti and the sauce was similar to tomato soup. The only true upside was it was a much more intimate setting than the MDR. We both had chicken parm on our next cruise (in the MDR), which was on CCL and we both agreed that it was much better than what we'd eaten on NCL. We've found the food overall to be very similar on the three lines that we've sailed on.

[momofmeg]

On ‎5‎/‎20‎/‎2019 at 11:45 PM, Nebr.cruiser said:

We never use it, but room service had a $7.95 charge on our very recent Pearl cruise.  I know some others charge for that now too.  Otherwise I can't actually think of anything else.  Maybe selling pull tag prizes before shows?  Not many were buying.

 

The MDR was actually very good on the Pearl.  The buffet less so, with little variety, except at breakfast.

I have found the main dining room food ON NCL just so-so except for elegant night when they make more of an effort. That said, they have the best buffet  and their pay extra restaurants there  are  more choices in restaurants and  most of them are reasonably priced. Other lines charge more for their pay extra restaurants.  There is another issue about  the main dining room I rarely see addressed. If you cruise during holidays, ( we do because if our daughter goes with us we have to as she teaches school) the main dining rooms are super crowded on most lines. On Celebrity I scooted back my chair slightly and bumped the person seated at the table behind me  because we were so close. I did not like that. Who cares if the food is better if you are crammed in like sardines? I found myself eating at the buffet if not eating is a specialty  because I could not take that. I hate feeling claustrophobic. Anyway, it was simply frustrating for me as we paid more  since holidays are premium times for cruising but that is what you face.

[Itchy&Scratchy]

11 hours ago, lenquixote66 said:

When I was a kid I lived around a corner from an ice cream factory.Every Friday at 5:00 they gave kids free ice cream. I loved ice cream and still do,but not soft serve.Every NCL ship I have been on had delicious ice cream.

My DH and DS are huge fans of soft serve and fans of ice cream, whereas I find most soft serve to be sub par (watery) and love real ice cream.

 

Oh, NCL's Jade also had amazing crepes for FREE at dinner. Getaway's crepes were also available for free at the buffet at dinner, however, they were overdone and too dried out. We finally asked to fry them for half the time, and they became a lot better.

Edited May 24, 2019 by Itchy&Scratchy

[Itchy&Scratchy]

9 hours ago, leaveitallbehind said:

 

But only as a desert with those meals served there and in limited flavors.  Otherwise it is their chocolate / vanilla soft serve or B & J's (on those ships with that) for a fee. 

 

The point I was making with Celebrity in comparison is that their ice cream is offered at n/c as a walk up in a variety of flavors in the buffet anytime it is open, not just as a desert serving such as with RCI.  

Allure had regular ice cream at the buffet in the evening, with a total spread of sprinkles, chocolate chips, syrups, etc. No charge. Can't say about lunch because we never got lunch at WJ. 

Norwegian Getaway also had regular ice cream (about 6-8 flavors) at the buffet every day. No charge.

[leaveitallbehind]

23 minutes ago, Itchy&Scratchy said:

Allure had regular ice cream at the buffet in the evening, with a total spread of sprinkles, chocolate chips, syrups, etc. No charge. Can't say about lunch because we never got lunch at WJ. 

Norwegian Getaway also had regular ice cream (about 6-8 flavors) at the buffet every day. No charge.

Thanks.  Now that you mention that we just got off Ovation and my wife said they had two flavors available as well in the buffet during lunch, but not every day - was random.  So I stand partially corrected.  Still think Celebrity is better in this regard - but then again I think they are better in most regards, in particular with their food.

[SantaFeFan]

4 hours ago, navybankerteacher said:

 This thread is about how NCL out-does other lines when it comes to extra charges - not about the economics of cruising generally.  Of course all mass market lines are cutting things here and there —- but  I believe NCL stands alone  in really pushing specialty restaurants as a source of revenue — by the extreme cuts in the quality of what is included and the great variety (and prices) of their many alternatives.

 

 

 

We can certainly agree on the business model of NCL with it's pay to upgrade almost everything. But according to the title of the thread it is about what is included on other lines that isn't on NCL, so it is actually more about the cost on other lines than about NCL. And that is exactly all about the economics of cruising generally. 

Edited May 24, 2019 by SantaFeFan

[navybankerteacher]

3 hours ago, SantaFeFan said:

 

We can certainly agree on the business model of NCL with it's pay to upgrade almost everything. But according to the title of the thread it is about what is included on other lines that isn't on NCL, so it is actually more about the cost on other lines than about NCL. And that is exactly all about the economics of cruising generally. 

No, we are not comparing costs on this thread —  we are discussing what is not included on NCL which is included on other mass market lines.   While all lines have degraded the quality of MDR meals and have introduced specialty (fee) alternative dining options;  NCL has done it so much more aggressively that it is really more than a matter of degree.   Most other cruise lines still offer reasonably good MDR meals, with the option of paying more for a supposed upgrade.  NCL has so downgraded their MDR experience - and added so many alternative (pay) venues (many of which are barely on a par with the included MDR on lines like Celebrity and HAL — that it is a completely different thing. The prices NCL charges (close to $100 in some cases), the large number of specialty venues, the fact that they advertise “free alternative dining” package (for a fee, of course) makes it clear that they do not 

 

NCL’s approach IS different from other lines. The included amenities have been severely degraded  —- meaning that what is included on other lines for the basic fare : reasonably adequate meals, is not included on NCL -  therefore it is not about the cost of other lines at all, and it is about what other lines provide for their basic fare - which is not provided by NCL.

[Joebucks]

15 hours ago, Heidi13 said:

A very valid point.

 

For many of us that experienced cruise ships in the 70's/80's or earlier,  we grew to expect a level of quality and service that none of the mainstream mega ships now provide. Other than drinks, at reasonable prices, and Shore-ex, they didn't have many extras.

 

However, when going to a hotel, we accepted paying for meals, entertainment, etc.

 

Sadly, the mainstream lines have conditioned newer cruise customers, to expect lower standards of service and quality,  and also to pay extra for a multitude of services.

 

 

 

So things should always be the way they were just because? Why? Cruises are forever destined to be luxury all-inclusive packages and hotels are destined to be forever a la carte? What if people like different options?

 

Hearing memories of previous cruises, you hear people say things like mints, tablecloths, silverware, elegant wear. This is the reason why this model never went mainstream. Because that stuff was the entertainment to most people. Just because that kind of stuff makes up your fondest memories, does not mean others want the same.

 

There is nothing "sad" about mainstream lines offering a product that is hugely accessible, affordable, and enjoyable to millions of people. I'm also unsure what these multitude of services I am forced to buy. I can buy a cruise that is half the price of your high-horse cruise, and have more than double the amount of options to entertain me on it. I'm sure you would mumble something like "well he can't afford it," that's why he say this. I can assure you that I can, and currently have no interest in doing so. I'd rather sit on the peeon lines and get nickle and dimed while you enjoy caviar and go to bed at 8pm.

[navybankerteacher]

3 hours ago, Joebucks said:

 

...

 

I'd rather sit on the peeon lines and get nickle and dimed while you enjoy caviar and go to bed at 8pm.

 I’m not at all sure what “peeon lines” are (somehow the name doesn’t conjure up much that is positive).

 

Also what connection does having caviar have with going to bed at 8pm?

 

I have found that allowing myself to get nickeled  and dimed on NCL can give me me an equally expensive cruise  with substantially less  quality than on a line which offers true value for an upfront price.     

 

Finally, I have to wonder about cruisemates who talk about their “free drinks” and “free dining” deals —- for which they paid a fair-sized fee above the basic cruise fare.  Do they stay up much more past 8pm than the caviar eaters you mention?

[ALWAYS CRUZIN]

There perks are not FREE. You must pay the 18% gratuity for them. There FREE drink package all of a sudden becomes expensive. Not FREE at all unlike other cruise lines.

[sparks1093]

20 minutes ago, twodaywonder said:

There perks are not FREE. You must pay the 18% gratuity for them. There FREE drink package all of a sudden becomes expensive. Not FREE at all unlike other cruise lines.

Somewhere along the way the gratuities were raised to 20%. If I have a coupon for a meal in a restaurant I still give the server a tip based on the cost of the meal, even if I didn't pay it (and many such coupons do specify that the gratuity is not included). 

[ontheweb]

18 minutes ago, sparks1093 said:

Somewhere along the way the gratuities were raised to 20%. If I have a coupon for a meal in a restaurant I still give the server a tip based on the cost of the meal, even if I didn't pay it (and many such coupons do specify that the gratuity is not included). 

 

And of course there is no reason that a server should not receive a tip because you were getting the meal free. 

[sparks1093]

1 hour ago, ontheweb said:

 

And of course there is no reason that a server should not receive a tip because you were getting the meal free. 

Exactly. Actually this came up a month or so ago. We went to one of our favorite restaurants for dinner and used a gift card that a friend gave us. The electronic doohickey wanted to calculate the tip based on the balance due once the gift card was applied, which would have given the server a tip of like $2. I calculated out what the tip would have been on the whole meal and input the number into the gadget and it said my tip was 300 percent. Made me feel like Rockefeller. 😂

[Warm Breezes]

We seem to lately go back and forth between NCL and CCL.  Mainly because we are getting some really good Casino Rates on CCL plus I use discounted Carnival Gift Cards to pay for everything including the cruise and with NCL my TA can get me some good rates plus we use Cruise Next Certificates on NCL.  I do try to get other lines in the running when I am looking for a ship to sail but recently NCL and CCL have come out ahead price wise, ship wise, itinerary wise, etc.  Plus we like sailing both lines.   I used to say between the two lines that DH's favorite line was CCL while I preferred NCL but recently DH has been giving NCL the edge over CCL with him even though we will frequently be paying more for NCL but also getting more in the process.  Both of us prefer Disney when sailing with small kids and neither of us were impressed with our Princess cruise. 

 

When we sail on CCL we normally do not plan on doing a lot of drinking (except on our next CCL cruise we will have free drinks in the casino from our casino pkg.)  On NCL we pick up the promo package for the ultimate beverage package.  On CCL we don't plan on eating in the specialty restaurants.  On NCL we pick up the promo package for 3 specialty meals.  I take this all into account when comparing prices.  I know I will usually pay less with CCL but get more with NCL.  The question is always is the price difference worth it to me for what I am getting.  The answer to that will vary depending on what I want out of that vacation.  

 

I personally don't perceive anything as nickel and diming on any line.  Every line charges for things.  Some lines increase their base price and don't charge for certain things where other lines will lower the base price and charge for different items.  I find that the things I purchase I would usually need to purchase on any line I sail so I find it a useless exercise to nit pick these types of differences.  You really have to look at the big picture. Your overall price vs what you are getting with each ship you are looking at vs what you want out of your vacation vs what you are willing to pay for it.  The bottom line is only you can make the right choice for you.  Have fun in doing so.

[calliopecruiser]

On 5/24/2019 at 3:58 PM, Joebucks said:

I'm also unsure what these multitude of services I am forced to buy. I can buy a cruise that is half the price of your high-horse cruise, and have more than double the amount of options to entertain me on it.

LOL!  If you are the kind of person who needs constant entertaining on a cruise, then the mainstream lines are the place to go.  Different strokes; even though I don't eat caviar and don't go to bed at 8, I enjoy the calm and relative quiet on a luxury line.   I would not want a cruise that has double the options to entertain me, even at half the price.

 

The poster doth protest too much, methinks.   Why such an emotional response that demonstrates your negativity (envy? fear?) towards those who enjoy different things than you?

[GUT2407]

I can’t think of anything they charged for that other lines I’ve sailed didn’t. Reallstruggle to understand all the Nickel and Dimming allegations 

[evandbob]

5 hours ago, GUT2407 said:

I can’t think of anything they charged for that other lines I’ve sailed didn’t. Reallstruggle to understand all the Nickel and Dimming allegations 

 

I share this opinion.  I think the nickel and dime mantra is mindlessly repeated by folks who just don't like NCL or were NCL fans prior to the installation of extra fees by the cruise lines..  Everything I've paid "extra" for on NCL I've paid "extra" for on other mass cruise lines.

[sparks1093]

Here's an example of what I would consider to be nickle and diming. I think it is safe to say that all of the mainstream lines charge for soda. CCL charges $2.25 for a soda. I believe Royal charges about the same. NCL charges $3.45 for a soda. As Del Rio said when they raised the price of soda "if the passenger wants a soda they'll buy regardless of the price" (paraphrasing here, I can't remember the exact quote). Of course one doesn't need to buy a soda and if one drinks a lot of soda (2 per day actually for NCL) then it would benefit them to buy the soda package, but that's beside the point- if you only want a single soda it will cost you much more on NCL than it will on the competition, just because they can charge that amount. 

[Joebucks]

27 minutes ago, sparks1093 said:

Here's an example of what I would consider to be nickle and diming. I think it is safe to say that all of the mainstream lines charge for soda. CCL charges $2.25 for a soda. I believe Royal charges about the same. NCL charges $3.45 for a soda. As Del Rio said when they raised the price of soda "if the passenger wants a soda they'll buy regardless of the price" (paraphrasing here, I can't remember the exact quote). Of course one doesn't need to buy a soda and if one drinks a lot of soda (2 per day actually for NCL) then it would benefit them to buy the soda package, but that's beside the point- if you only want a single soda it will cost you much more on NCL than it will on the competition, just because they can charge that amount. 

 

It isn't "Nickel and diming" because you don't like the price on something. Although, maybe that phrase is taking on a new definition now. Any line that doesn't give you everything you feel entitled to at a price that is cheap or free is apparently "nickle and dimes" 

[navybankerteacher]

4 minutes ago, Joebucks said:

 

It isn't "Nickel and diming" because you don't like the price on something. Although, maybe that phrase is taking on a new definition now. Any line that doesn't give you everything you feel entitled to at a price that is cheap or free is apparently "nickle and dimes" 

It is not a matter of simply not liking the price.  The fact is that NCL markets itself as a low cost line - which is OK in itself;  but they clearly offer less for the basic fare than other lines offer for their basic fare (MDR food quality and service, for example), offer more optional alternative restaurants, continually sell stuff like lottery tickets, charge more for odds and ends like soft drinks, even bar bringing water on- then selling it.   That, taken together IS nickel and diming —- and because NCL does it all - a lot more than other lines, it is clearly a core element of their business model.

[sparks1093]

23 minutes ago, Joebucks said:

 

It isn't "Nickel and diming" because you don't like the price on something. Although, maybe that phrase is taking on a new definition now. Any line that doesn't give you everything you feel entitled to at a price that is cheap or free is apparently "nickle and dimes" 

No, NCL charges more for the same thing not because it costs them more but only because than "they can". To me the definition of "nickle and diming" is they charge for things other cruises don't charge for (i.e. the popcorn on Royal that I spoke about) OR they charge more for the same thing then other cruise lines. As I also said earlier every cruise line's goal is to separate the passenger's from as many of their hard earned dollars as they can. NCL is better at it than the others in most cases.

Edited May 29, 2019 by sparks1093

[brillohead]

5 hours ago, sparks1093 said:

Here's an example of what I would consider to be nickle and diming. I think it is safe to say that all of the mainstream lines charge for soda. CCL charges $2.25 for a soda. I believe Royal charges about the same. NCL charges $3.45 for a soda. As Del Rio said when they raised the price of soda "if the passenger wants a soda they'll buy regardless of the price" (paraphrasing here, I can't remember the exact quote). Of course one doesn't need to buy a soda and if one drinks a lot of soda (2 per day actually for NCL) then it would benefit them to buy the soda package, but that's beside the point- if you only want a single soda it will cost you much more on NCL than it will on the competition, just because they can charge that amount. 

Actually, Royal charges more like $3.75-$4.00 plus gratuity for a can of soda.  

But again, most lines don't include soda for free (other than Disney, which just charges a crap-ton more for the fare, so the soda isn't really "free" there anyway).  

My first cruises were back in the 1980s.  Guess what --- soda cost extra back then, too, and it was about twice the cost of a soda in a sit-down restaurant... which is comparable to what NCL and RCI are charging now.

Just because you don't want to pay for something doesn't mean it's nickel-and-diming.  You don't go on the cruise expecting soda to be free and then get surprised when you have to pay extra for it.  THAT would be nickel-and-diming.  

Until you're having to pay for toilet paper, napkins at meals, and admission to the headliner show, you're not being nickel-and-dimed if you CHOOSE to do something EXTRA.  As long as all the standards are still included in the base fare (meals in MDR and buffet, shows in main theater, use of pool and hot tub on pool deck), then you're not being nickel-and-dimed. 

Choosing a booze package or choosing a specialty restaurant or choosing a ship tour or a puzzle/escape room experience or choosing a spa treatment are all EXTRA items that cost EXTRA.  You can still have a complete cruise experience without any of those items.  

[sparks1093]

31 minutes ago, brillohead said:

Actually, Royal charges more like $3.75-$4.00 plus gratuity for a can of soda.  

But again, most lines don't include soda for free (other than Disney, which just charges a crap-ton more for the fare, so the soda isn't really "free" there anyway).  

My first cruises were back in the 1980s.  Guess what --- soda cost extra back then, too, and it was about twice the cost of a soda in a sit-down restaurant... which is comparable to what NCL and RCI are charging now.

Just because you don't want to pay for something doesn't mean it's nickel-and-diming.  You don't go on the cruise expecting soda to be free and then get surprised when you have to pay extra for it.  THAT would be nickel-and-diming.  

Until you're having to pay for toilet paper, napkins at meals, and admission to the headliner show, you're not being nickel-and-dimed if you CHOOSE to do something EXTRA.  As long as all the standards are still included in the base fare (meals in MDR and buffet, shows in main theater, use of pool and hot tub on pool deck), then you're not being nickel-and-dimed. 

Choosing a booze package or choosing a specialty restaurant or choosing a ship tour or a puzzle/escape room experience or choosing a spa treatment are all EXTRA items that cost EXTRA.  You can still have a complete cruise experience without any of those items.  

I didn't buy soda on Royal so I'll take your word for it, but I've already acknowledged that Royal nickles and dimes and if that is what they are charging then yes, in that regard they are also nickle and diming regarding soda. I provided my definition of what constitutes nickle and diming and it has nothing to do with having a complete cruise or not, because of course you can without having to spend anything more. Heck, I've even said that all cruise lines do it up to a point, it's one of the mechanisms they use to help keep cruise fares more affordable.