Class cruising has returned

[Warm Breezes]

20 minutes ago, PortFees45 said:

Totally agree...it's not like corporations have ever made stupid mistakes before in a short-term push for higher profits. And Norwegian never makes mistakes analyzing the cruise market, either. After all, NCL Joy is selling out all those Chinese cruises...oh...wait. 

Hey they have humans doing their research and they make mistakes.  I never said they were perfect....but I'm sure they try to do their best or they are out of job.  My point is those are business decisions.  Companies will make business decisions based on their market research and bottom line profits.  We have to make the personal decisions based on what we want and our budgets.  I will not choose a ship that does not offer what I want at a price I am willing to pay.  I am also not going to come on CC and waste my time complaining that a ship I was looking at is not going to offer what I want at a price I am willing to pay....I'm going to spend that time looking for a ship that does offer what I want at a price I am willing to pay.  It maybe on NCL and it may not be.  But that is a personal decision for me to make.  I would never make a personal decision like that out of loyalty to a company.  A company makes business decisions not personal decisions.  They are not loyal to me or anyone else other than their shareholders.

Edited June 27, 2019 by Warm Breezes

[MrMike45]

I don't want to beat a dead horse here, so this will be the last post by me on the topic.  

 

First, I apologize for any part I played in the silly argument/cursing with Elmwood and hope he didn't get banned.  

 

As for the debate, for me at least (and i believe for others as well), it is not what the Haven is getting for their significantly more expensive suites.  The bigger issue is what is being taken away from the majority of passengers.  I have no issue with people who buy Haven cabins getting extra.  And I have no issue with the Vibe being expanded somewhat since it does always sell out.  And I have no issue with NCL installing some new activities like Go Karts or Laser Tag.  

 

I have an issue with it all...on the same ships...all the newest ones to be exact.  You take the entire pool deck, which previously was accessible to all 4400 passengers, and divide it into 4 sections now.  Lose H20.  Lose the pool deck area to Vibe.  Lose the front facing sight seeing to Haven.  

 

Adding things is fine.  Subtracting from the vast majority of people on this cruise (200 Haven Guests / 200 Vibe passes = 4000 people not in either of those) is the issue for me.  And yes, that puts things into a class like system in my estimation.  

 

The suggestions to go to other cruise lines is foolish.  As I have said, I have 17 cruises with NCL, I am platinum plus, and this is a public forum discussing cruising, so I (and others) are allowed to voice our displeasure and opinions.  We clearly like NCL if after the first cruise we booked 16 more, with another booked for 2020.  But we can disagree with this new model, and express so, without being essentially told "tough...leave".  

[sometimes sailor]

On 6/24/2019 at 2:20 PM, rgd1213 said:

I tend to agree with the OP....and I don't think he was calling anyone 'steerage' but just stressing a point.  My wife and I play a little game when cruising NCL...how long will it take for a person we meet to say "we are in the Haven".  Usually does not take too long (it's been as short as an elevator ride!), and my wife and I just look at each other, then our watches, and smile. 

 

 

 

 

Great little exercise.  Frankly, if I could afford the Haven for our trips I might splurge for it, but we've been in all classes of rooms and always have a great cruise.  The cabin does not make the vacation for us.  Haven perks are an unknown commodity for us as we always book multiple rooms for family and friends.

[tjt87]

26 minutes ago, Warm Breezes said:

I'm sure NCL has done a lot more research on what the current cruising market is and what their current targeted customer base is looking for than you have.  It appears that you may not be the targeted customer base that NCL is looking at for their current dry docks and new builds.  That doesn't mean that targeted customer base is not out there and willing to spend money on what NCL is currently offering.  It just means you are not part of it.

 

You are not happy because they currently are not catering to your wants and needs on their future dry-docks and new builds.  So make yourself happy and find another ship or line that better suits you.  It makes no sense to me why someone would rather waste their time complaining that they can't get what they want from some company rather than going out and finding a way to get what they from another.  It is not NCL's job to make YOU happy.  That is your job.  It is NCL's job to find a strong target market, try to make the majority of them happy with what they offer, and make a profit for their shareholders.

 

It makes no sense to me why people complain about people complaining.

 

Unless of course you're me who is complaining about someone complaining about someone complaining

[Warm Breezes]

1 minute ago, tjt87 said:

 

It makes no sense to me why people complain about people complaining.

 

Unless of course you're me who is complaining about someone complaining about someone complaining

I'm not complaining because they are complaining.  I am honestly confused on why someone would waste their time complaining about a company, which has no personal loyalty to you, making a business decision based on their marketing research and bottom line.  It is not personal.    I get that they are changing something that some people like.  Some people will hate that decision and some people will love that decision and some, like me in this case, are not affected either way.  That happens with every business decision they make.  No business can please every person all the time.  Not possible.  They need to make their decision based on their market research and bottom line.

 

The difference between me and some of the other posters in this thread (and I am not complaining about them but I am expressing my honest confusion about them since I literally can not think that way) is that I don't take these business decisions personally and if I don't like the changes made then I will not waste my time constantly complaining and getting myself worked up and upset about it.  I have too many other choices out there.  It is up to me to find something that meets my wants.  It's not like there aren't a ton of other options out there in the cruise industry and NCL is the only company that sells that type of product.  I don't understand getting myself so worked up and upset about things like this.  IMHO there are so many bigger things in this life to get upset about.  I've had to live through many of them.  A business decision by a company to change their product is not one of them.

[PortFees45]

"a company, which has no personal loyalty to you"

 

This sums it up...100%. Some people like doing business with companies that do express loyalty to their customers for the business...or at least do a good job faking it. 

[boatseller]

What bothers me most about these posts is the trivialization of terms like "class" and "segregation".

We don't live in a cast system and no one is forced to the 'back of the bus'.

The only differentiator is the money you pay, which is a choice everyone can make (yes, some easier than other, so just don't).

And it goes both ways.  I can afford The Haven, but have no desire to because everything I like about cruising happens outside the bubble.  Even sitting on my balcony, I get terrible FOMO.  I get what I pay for and don't get what I'm not willing to pay for.  Everyone's happy.

 

[CruisinPandora]

49 minutes ago, sometimes sailor said:

Great little exercise.  Frankly, if I could afford the Haven for our trips I might splurge for it, but we've been in all classes of rooms and always have a great cruise.  The cabin does not make the vacation for us.  Haven perks are an unknown commodity for us as we always book multiple rooms for family and friends.

So, so funny. Second day of the cruise hubby and I were on the elevator, a few people got on and the lady/mother says to the younger lady "Do you have your access key? Do you have your access key?", young lady looked at her like "What???" Hubby and I just looked at each other and laughed when they got off.

 

We don't envy haven cruisers, enjoy!

 

4 minutes ago, boatseller said:

I can afford The Haven, but have no desire to because everything I like about cruising happens outside the bubble.  Even sitting on my balcony, I get terrible FOMO.  I get what I pay for and don't get what I'm not willing to pay for.

 

 

Totally agree.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited June 27, 2019 by CruisinPandora
quote added

[Warm Breezes]

9 minutes ago, PortFees45 said:

"a company, which has no personal loyalty to you"

 

This sums it up...100%. Some people like doing business with companies that do express loyalty to their customers for the business...or at least do a good job faking it. 

Realistically it is impossible for a company serving 1000's of customers a day to be personally loyal to each and everyone of them.  Like I said before, a company can not please all of their customers all of the time.  Every decision they make will have haters, lovers, and who care's responses by their customer.  The question for them is whether the lovers and the who cares responses are coming from their targeted customer base.  If a customer feels a large company like this is being personally loyal to them they are only fooling themselves.

Edited June 27, 2019 by Warm Breezes

[PortFees45]

7 minutes ago, boatseller said:

What bothers me most about these posts is the trivialization of terms like "class" and "segregation".

We don't live in a cast system and no one is forced to the 'back of the bus'.

The only differentiator is the money you pay, which is a choice everyone can make (yes, some easier than other, so just don't).

And it goes both ways.  I can afford The Haven, but have no desire to because everything I like about cruising happens outside the bubble.  Even sitting on my balcony, I get terrible FOMO.  I get what I pay for and don't get what I'm not willing to pay for.  Everyone's happy.

 

Of course someone can afford the Haven thinks "we don't live in "caste" system.

 

I'm assuming the property taxes where you live are high, so the public schools around you are comparatively well funded. Compare that to public schools in poor rural or urban areas that get substantially less funding, and the children who go to school there get a far less effective education. No you're not ascribed a formal label like the classic Indian system you seem to be invoking, but only someone with the privilege to sail in the Haven would think a very real caste system doesn't still exist in this country.

 

Also not sure why you put back of the bus in quotes...since that was literally something happening to people just one generation ago in this country. 

Edited June 27, 2019 by PortFees45

[Kingkonig]

5 minutes ago, PortFees45 said:

 

Also not sure why you put back of the bus in quotes...since that was literally something happening to people just one generation ago in this country. 

 

I would assume because he’s saying that comparing racial segregation (that wasn’t even a generation ago - many people who are alive today lived through that) to different perks for passengers who pay different amounts of money to cruise is absurd

[PortFees45]

5 minutes ago, Kingkonig said:

 

I would assume because he’s saying that comparing racial segregation (that wasn’t even a generation ago - many people who are alive today lived through that) to different perks for passengers who pay different amounts of money to cruise is absurd

Please show me where anybody in this thread compared closing off formerly public sundecks to Jim Crowe laws. 

[boatseller]

4 minutes ago, PortFees45 said:

Of course someone can afford the Haven thinks "we don't live in "caste" system.

 

I'm assuming the property taxes where you live are high, so the public schools around you are comparatively well funded. Compare that to public schools in poor rural or urban areas that get substantially less funding, and the children who go to school there get a far less effective education. No you're not ascribed a formal label like the classic Indian system you seem to be invoking, but only someone with the privilege to sail in the Haven would think a very real caste system doesn't still exist in this country.

 

Also not sure why you put back of the bus in quotes...since that was literally something happening to people just one generation ago in this country. 

Nice try, but spare us you jealousy induced class-warfare rhetoric.  A lot of people in The Haven worked their butts off to be there.  Hard work and good life choices earned them and me our much enjoyed "privilege".  Not the slightest bit sorry for that because anyone can do it.

 

'Back of the bus' is a colloquial term and the quotes are used to indicate that.  Oops!  There goes my privileged public school education on display again.  🙂 

 

Spelling corrected.

[js]

On 6/24/2019 at 12:01 PM, dcruiser50 said:

Sorry to all who misunderstood, this is just an observation based on 18 NCL cruises and numerous post on this site. I am not a proponent for class separation, but I feel this is the direction that cruise lines are heading. And yes I know very well  that thus is a business responsible to its share holders. 

 

I am one that just doesn't understand what you are asking or want?
I go to Disney and stay at Grand Floridian and expect a different experience than staying at All Stars.

When we sail on NCL and MSC, we sail in Haven/YC, but when I sail on RCCL, we sail balconies. I would NOT expect to receive the same as those that spend thousands more than I do that pay for Sky Class. Everyone can choose how they spend their money.  When we vacation, we like to spend our money, today, at work, I'm wearing a pair of pants I purchased in Costco LOL  What class is that HAHAHA 🙂

 

[dcruiser50]

Congratulations, prortfee45 you got the just of the original post

[boatseller]

5 minutes ago, dcruiser50 said:

Congratulations, prortfee45 you got the just of the original post

To be clear, PortFees45 misunderstood my post, not yours, but that neither here nor there.

 

As others have pointed out, class cruising never ended.  Prior to keyed entry and specialty restaurants, the 'classes' were separated by entire ships, Crystal vs Carnival.

 

That lines like NCL or RCI decided to target both markets on a single ship isn't anything extraordinary.  Airlines have been doing this forever.  They found a lot of cruisers who like the hard product of, say, Viking, but still want water slides and late night parties.

 

If you want an classless high end experience, book with Regent.  If you want an classless budget experience, book with Pullmantur.  These options have always been available.  The Haven, Star Class are just newer manifestations.

[FitchburgWIFamily]

Wow.

 

I am no good at math, but if the only changes people are concerned about is the changes to the sundeck on deck 17, is it really fair to say that since they are taking ½ of that little sun deck from public access to vibe/haven access they dividing the access to all sun decks into 3rds? 

 

And I can’t tell you how many times I have heard about the bar outside the Vibe or the hot tub out side the Vibe being under-utilized: it shows up on tips about the ship all the time.   You know what else shows up all the time?  People lamenting not being able to get Vibe passes.  Now the cruise line tries to better utilize their ship while providing a commodity in high demand, and people act like they are coming into their homes and taking money out of their sock drawer.  (And making snarky comments about the quality of the home and the neighborhood while they do it).

 

I think this forum would be a lot better if people stopped booking cruises on the S.S Imagined Indignation.  If we spent more time talking about things that actually happened and less time doing a Chicken Little impersonation, this thread and a lot of others would be a lot shorter.

 

[hladygirl]

I have sailed on the Spirit and the Dawn multiple times. These ships are small and have no haven or vibe. Never felt like the area around the pool was over crowded. Just took a cruise on the Gem. No forward deck access due to the haven. The pool area was ridiculously crowded. Same size ship but I noticed a huge difference in the outside deck atmosphere and it was not to my liking. I understand why people who do not book haven get upset about areas being taken away. It does lessen the cruise experience for those of us who choose not to book the haven.

[Bonobochick]

6 hours ago, Wedgie23 said:

What does FOMO mean?

7 hours ago, PortFees45 said:

 

Fear of missing out. 

[Steff79]

56 minutes ago, FitchburgWIFamily said:

Wow.

 

I am no good at math, but if the only changes people are concerned about is the changes to the sundeck on deck 17, is it really fair to say that since they are taking ½ of that little sun deck from public access to vibe/haven access they dividing the access to all sun decks into 3rds? 

if you mean the getaway they took the left sundeck complete at the front, that area is not so small. they should give every person who booked before the change a free vibe pass.

 

if you look at the Encore you see the next step.

 

[mugtech]

8 hours ago, tjt87 said:

 

It makes no sense to me why people complain about people complaining.

 

Unless of course you're me who is complaining about someone complaining about someone complaining

Far be it for me to complain about your complaining about those who complain about the complainers.  Keep up the good work.

[Paul Bogle]

38 minutes ago, mugtech said:

Far be it for me to complain about your complaining about those who complain about the complainers.  Keep up the good work.

lmao, brought back memories of my youth.

 

"I think that all right-thinking people in this country are sick and tired of being told that common decent ordinary people are fed up with being sick and tired. I'm certainly not. And I'm sick and tired of being told that I am." - Monty Python

[PortFees45]

2 hours ago, hladygirl said:

I have sailed on the Spirit and the Dawn multiple times. These ships are small and have no haven or vibe. Never felt like the area around the pool was over crowded. Just took a cruise on the Gem. No forward deck access due to the haven. The pool area was ridiculously crowded. Same size ship but I noticed a huge difference in the outside deck atmosphere and it was not to my liking. I understand why people who do not book haven get upset about areas being taken away. It does lessen the cruise experience for those of us who choose not to book the haven.

No forward deck access on the GEM? What?!? The Haven already had their own private sundeck on the Gem!

[Warm Breezes]

5 minutes ago, ronbe65 said:

 

How do I know that the ship that (yesterday) offered what I wanted, does not offer it today?

Research...doing exactly what you are doing here.

[PortFees45]

1 minute ago, Warm Breezes said:

Research...doing exactly what you are doing here.

If it is in fact true that the front of the ship on the GEM is now closed off to non-Haven pax, there would be literally no way to research that. NCL made no announcement about it, and there have been no changes to the deck plans (the private Sundeck the haven ALREADY HAD is labeled "private sundeck", but the forward area is just labeled "sundeck"). 

 

This is literally a deal breaker for me ever booking the Gem again, and if I'd not read about this HUGE change on these message boards I'd have had absolutely no idea.