Sky Princess Fire/Life Safety Issue - Anyone Else Seen This?

[Thrak]

If the doorways were wider one could find space for a scooter in the closet even in an inside cabin. It's a problem common to accommodations everywhere. Mostly I've seen the scooters charging in the elevator lobbies. Not ideal but less of a problem than having them in the hallway. As for booking a Handicapped Accessible cabin to accommodate a scooter... I certainly hope folks who can't get out of their wheelchair aren't denied a cabin for someone who can get up and walk.

[1emerald1]

And then there are the housekeeping carts that block the hallways.  I have permanent damage to my sensory balance system resulting in a 45% loss of balance on my left side, which requires me to use a walker off and on, depending on how I'm feeling.  There is no way my walker can pass the housekeeping carts, rather I have to lift it up to get it over the wheels of the housekeeping carts.  So I imagine this is even more frustrating for those in scooters.

[bugsy43]

It’s unfortunate for all parties as there is no room in the stateroom to get around and but yet it’s also a nuisance and danger to other staff and passengers. What do you do? 
 

*Make hallways wider on new ships?

*Add enough room to the entryway for the scooter to be able to be stored in the stateroom and will be an inconvenience to them?

*Create Scooter Class or Deck? 
 

I agree something needs to be done for everyone’s safety and satisfaction as I’ve received enough bruises and “run over” feet to last a lifetime but on the flip side, I’m getting older and have bad knees that most likely will at some point need replacement and so I would hope to still be able to enjoy cruising with any aids (not too soon 🤞) I might require and hope that by then there are better solutions that will allow everyone to enjoy cruising safely and comfortably as the number of walkers and scooters is only going to climb with an aging population.

 

 

 

 

 

[getting older slowly]

1 hour ago, bugsy43 said:

It’s unfortunate for all parties as there is no room in the stateroom to get around and but yet it’s also a nuisance and danger to other staff and passengers. What do you do? 
 

*Make hallways wider on new ships?

*Add enough room to the entryway for the scooter to be able to be stored in the stateroom and will be an inconvenience to them?

*Create Scooter Class or Deck? 
 

I agree something needs to be done for everyone’s safety and satisfaction as I’ve received enough bruises and “run over” feet to last a lifetime but on the flip side, I’m getting older and have bad knees that most likely will at some point need replacement and so I would hope to still be able to enjoy cruising with any aids (not too soon 🤞) I might require and hope that by then there are better solutions that will allow everyone to enjoy cruising safely and comfortably as the number of walkers and scooters is only going to climb with an aging population.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Very good points....

 

One idea is for The cruise line to supply/hire scooters which fit into the stateroom.......

 

But what do these people do a shore then.......

 

It is going to become a bigger issue and the cruising population gets older.....

 

Simply no easy fix.....  

or be like Tokyo no parking no car

if you can not park the scooter in the cabin you can not bring it aboard...

 

Cheers Don

[Papa Yoda]

They must NOT be left in the passageways!

 

The scooters pictured above will fit perfectly in any cabin's closet it only takes a minute to position them (I know this as I've done it).  These things weigh about 60 pounds, ask Stewart to put them out of the way if need be.  If anyone needs to evacuate in an emergency, these are not useful even if left in the passageway, register with GS to make sure someone will come to assist the disabled passenger.

 

Older housekeeping carts are too wide for scooters to get by, the newer ones are better (as on Royal class).  Stewart is good about coming out to move them as needed. 

[SargassoPirate]

SOLAS states “escape routes shall be maintained in a safe condition clear of obstacles” and Princess cruise line policy states “Guests utilizing mobility devices with batteries are advised that the batteries must be a dry cell type, and must be stored and recharged in the stateroom. Mobility devices of any kind, like any other items, may not be left outside the stateroom.”

 

"May not be left outside the stateroom" pretty much excludes parking mobility devices in hallways, stairway access points, elevator lobbies (a path of exit travel from port to starboard), and/or in little corners in these spaces.  

 

Since most cruise lines seem reluctant to enforce SOLAS and their own policies, perhaps contacting the U.S. Coast Guard in the ship's home port - in the case of the Sky Princess it would be the Fort Lauderdale Coast Guard - would get results.

 

 

[SargassoPirate]

Found the following information while googling around the US Coast Guard's website.  I'm going to print it out and keep a copy in my cruise folder.  Might be handy to have if the ship personnel don't take action to remove fire/life safety hazards.

 

Vessel Safety: Persons who wish to complain about a safety-related matter they have observed on a cruise ship should contact the Coast Guard Marine Safety Office (MSO) responsible for the Control Verification Examination of the ship.  Interested persons can get a referral to the appropriate MSO by calling the Coast Guard toll-free Consumer Hotline: 1-800-368-5647.  The most popular ports for cruise ships are Miami, FL; Juneau, AK, and San Juan, PR.  The Coast Guard MSO telephone numbers are: (305) 535-8705 (Miami); (907) 463-2450 (Juneau), and (787) 729-6800 (San Juan).

Sanitary Conditions: Reports of unsanitary conditions on a cruise ship can be made to: U.S. Public Health Service, Chief, Vessel Sanitation Program, National Center for Environmental Health, 1850 Eller Dr., Suite 101, Ft.  Lauderdale, FL, 33316.  Telephone: 954-356-6650.

Illegal Dumping: Passengers on cruise ships who observe any dumping of plastic at sea should report it to the National Response Center by calling 1-800-424-8802 or the nearest Coast Guard MSO (to locate, call the Coast Guard Hotline.) A written report can be mailed to:

Commandant (G-MOR-3)
Response Operations Division
U.S. Coast Guard Headquarters
2100 Second Street SW
Washington, D.C.  20593-0001

Edited January 2, 2020 by SargassoPirate

[chengkp75]

Just know that the USCG will only investigate a report of a safety concern, if one of two things happen;  one, if the condition exists at the time of the USCG inspection (i.e. in a US port), or two, if there is documentary evidence of the issue while the ship is in international waters.  So, you would require several time/date stamped photos of the offending scooter, showing long term parking in the passageway, documented evidence of having reported this to the ship's management, and documentary evidence that the reporting did nothing, and the vessel's itinerary to show that the photos were taken either in US waters or international waters.  Without documentation, one call to the MSO will possibly generate a visit to the ship at the next port call, and a friendly chat with the Captain regarding the complaint, but that would be about it.

[CRUISEWITHH]

My husband uses a mobility scooter.

 

Don't even get me started on the problem's on the Royal!!1  Here is a small portion of the letter that I felt compelled to write to Princess after our recent cruise.  We had a H/C stateroom on Carib deck.

 

The entry to the stateroom is EXTREMELY difficult to maneuver into from the elevator lobby.  It is necessary to first make a 90-degree right turn into the narrow hallway then make a 90-degree left turn to get into the cabin.  My husbands scooter is very light and maneuverable however it was almost impossible for him to make these sharp turns without hitting the door each time and I can’t imagine someone with a heavy-duty scooter being able to make them at all.  I did see a heavy-duty scooter parked in the elevator lobby on one of the decks.  I don’t know if the guest had an accessible cabin or not and just couldn’t get into the cabin or did not have an accessible cabin.  The same problem with making the turns would be true for guests with wheelchairs or even walkers. 

DINNING ROOM

Princess ships have very narrow hallways and it is always impossible to get through in the mornings and evenings when the steward carts are out.  This made it necessary for us to change our dining room from our appointed Dining room Allegro on deck 6 in the back of the ship to the Symphony Dining room on deck 5 midship.  Unless we changed it would be necessary for us to take the elevators down to deck 7, walk aft to the elevator bank and then wait while all the elevators come down from upper decks always too full to accommodate us to take us to deck 6 which is the only way for mobility challenged passangers to get there.

 And that is just part of the problems we encountered.  There were also problems with the Casino and Theatre.

[SargassoPirate]

20 hours ago, CRUISEWITHH said:

My husband uses a mobility scooter.

 

Don't even get me started on the problem's on the Royal!!1  Here is a small portion of the letter that I felt compelled to write to Princess after our recent cruise.  We had a H/C stateroom on Carib deck.

 

The entry to the stateroom is EXTREMELY difficult to maneuver into from the elevator lobby.  It is necessary to first make a 90-degree right turn into the narrow hallway then make a 90-degree left turn to get into the cabin.  My husbands scooter is very light and maneuverable however it was almost impossible for him to make these sharp turns without hitting the door each time and I can’t imagine someone with a heavy-duty scooter being able to make them at all.  I did see a heavy-duty scooter parked in the elevator lobby on one of the decks.  I don’t know if the guest had an accessible cabin or not and just couldn’t get into the cabin or did not have an accessible cabin.  The same problem with making the turns would be true for guests with wheelchairs or even walkers. 

DINNING ROOM

 

 

Princess ships have very narrow hallways and it is always impossible to get through in the mornings and evenings when the steward carts are out.  This made it necessary for us to change our dining room from our appointed Dining room Allegro on deck 6 in the back of the ship to the Symphony Dining room on deck 5 midship.  Unless we changed it would be necessary for us to take the elevators down to deck 7, walk aft to the elevator bank and then wait while all the elevators come down from upper decks always too full to accommodate us to take us to deck 6 which is the only way for mobility challenged passangers to get there.

 

 

 And that is just part of the problems we encountered.  There were also problems with the Casino and Theatre.

 

 

 

I've often said that people who design things should be forced to use them.  A cabin designated as accessible should allow for a scooter to maneuver into the cabin - or what good is it?

 

I don't worry about the steward carts in the corridors since the stewards are generally nearby and will move the cart to let a mobility device user to pass and will move them in case of emergency.  

 

It's the "abandoned" mobility devices parked in the corridors and/or stairway lobbies that present the hazard.

 

[kywildcatfanone]

We had a hard time getting around the steward's carts on disembarkation day with all our luggage.  I do wish the hallways were wider.

[skynight]

My thoughts.

It's not all enforcement. It's not all on the passenger. Most I would guess has to do with the ship and cabin design. Princess should address this. I think it wold be wise to have park & plug lots in certain areas of the passenger decks for overnight parking, and also in venues and DR's. Separate scooter elevators would also be a nice addition.  

[kywildcatfanone]

1 hour ago, skynight said:

My thoughts.

It's not all enforcement. It's not all on the passenger. Most I would guess has to do with the ship and cabin design. Princess should address this. I think it wold be wise to have park & plug lots in certain areas of the passenger decks for overnight parking, and also in venues and DR's. Separate scooter elevators would also be a nice addition.  

:Sarcasm mode on:

 

There is no money to be made by offering a convenience to an aging cruise population, so it won't be considered.  They are removing non revenue spaces to try to maximize spending (i.e. Library), so I don't really see them doing this.

Do any ships have separate elevators for folks who need further assistance?  Never thought of that.

 

I'm joking, but not completely.

 

:Sarcasm mode off:

[chengkp75]

21 minutes ago, kywildcatfanone said:

:Sarcasm mode on:

 

There is no money to be made by offering a convenience to an aging cruise population, so it won't be considered.  They are removing non revenue spaces to try to maximize spending (i.e. Library), so I don't really see them doing this.

Do any ships have separate elevators for folks who need further assistance?  Never thought of that.

 

I'm joking, but not completely.

 

:Sarcasm mode off:

While I recognize your sarcasm, you are entirely correct.  Passageways are non-revenue generating spaces, so they are minimized.  As for "special needs" elevators, again, cost/benefit analysis would show that this would again take away possible revenue generating space for something to be used by a limited group of the ship's demographic.  And, for "park and plug", you would get complaints from those who could not walk to the "parking lot" to collect their scooter.

[voljeep]

valet scooter parking/charging made available, for a fee of course, in the old library space 

 

call from you room , for pickup and delivery 

[ED49404]

The other problem is not only the scooter parking, but the people who operate these scooters.  Several years ago we were on the Caribbean Princess at the Photo Gallery, when I turned around to talk to DW I was almost ran over by a scooter.  My first thought was if he ran over my foot who is responsible for my injuries.  Another reason for Travel Insurance protection.  Not only would I've had to pony up to get my foot fixed, but the rest of my cruise would have been ruined.  I was wondering if anyone else had a situation like this???  Also; when you are in international waters who is responsible for an incidence like this???    

[pms4104]

The disability laws mandate REASONABLE accomodation ... my guess is fhat Princess could disallow virtually all electric and battery-operated mobility devices ... and not run afoul of the law

[CRUISEWITHH]

4 hours ago, ED49404 said:

The other problem is not only the scooter parking, but the people who operate these scooters.  Several years ago we were on the Caribbean Princess at the Photo Gallery, when I turned around to talk to DW I was almost ran over by a scooter.  My first thought was if he ran over my foot who is responsible for my injuries.  Another reason for Travel Insurance protection.  Not only would I've had to pony up to get my foot fixed, but the rest of my cruise would have been ruined.  I was wondering if anyone else had a situation like this???  Also; when you are in international waters who is responsible for an incidence like this???    

Please understand that Scooters CANNOT stop on a dime.  We also have have other passengers turn abruptly or not look where they are going and my husband has almost run over them.  Going slow is a no brainer, but it is still impossible to stop suddenly when someone turns or backs up without looking around.

 

Years ago we were in New York (the capital of rude people) and my husband couldn't even get thru on the sidewalk.  I decided to walk in front of him to "part the waters" and someone stepped in front of me so that I had to stop suddenly and I got hit by my husband's scooter.  It was the beginning of our vacation and I had a bruise from my ankle up to my knee for the rest of the week. 

 

[billco]

13 minutes ago, CRUISEWITHH said:

Please understand that Scooters CANNOT stop on a dime.  We also have have other passengers turn abruptly or not look where they are going and my husband has almost run over them.  Going slow is a no brainer, but it is still impossible to stop suddenly when someone turns or backs up without looking around.

Never thought I would say this, but that sounds like a good argument for not allowing scooters on ships. 

[ED49404]

24 minutes ago, CRUISEWITHH said:

Please understand that Scooters CANNOT stop on a dime.  We also have have other passengers turn abruptly or not look where they are going and my husband has almost run over them.  Going slow is a no brainer, but it is still impossible to stop suddenly when someone turns or backs up without looking around.

 

Years ago we were in New York (the capital of rude people) and my husband couldn't even get thru on the sidewalk.  I decided to walk in front of him to "part the waters" and someone stepped in front of me so that I had to stop suddenly and I got hit by my husband's scooter.  It was the beginning of our vacation and I had a bruise from my ankle up to my knee for the rest of the week. 

 

My question is - Who is responsible for the injuries they cause and spoiling my cruise that I paid for???

[hel0013]

1 hour ago, ED49404 said:

My question is - Who is responsible for the injuries they cause and spoiling my cruise that I paid for???

 

Depends which one or both that was being negligent.

 

if you're (figuratively) not paying attention to your surroundings and turn around into the path of the scooter where he couldn't avoid running over your foot.... then I would say you are the one that was negligent. 

 

If he was carelessly booting along on his scooter where your foot was in his path  but instead of avoiding your foot he runs it over... then obviously he would be the negligent one.

 

Could be a combination of both being responsible... Both of you have equal rights to be there.

 

Make sure there's witnesses... otherwise it's your word against theirs... BTDT

 

[ED49404]

18 minutes ago, hel0013 said:

 

Depends which one or both that was being negligent.

 

if you're (figuratively) not paying attention to your surroundings and turn around into the path of the scooter where he couldn't avoid running over your foot.... then I would say you are the one that was negligent. 

 

If he was carelessly booting along on his scooter where your foot was in his path  but instead of avoiding your foot he runs it over... then obviously he would be the negligent one.

 

Could be a combination of both being responsible... Both of you have equal rights to be there.

 

Make sure there's witnesses... otherwise it's your word against theirs... BTDT

 

What good are witnesses???  When in international waters where do you go - Princess???

[chengkp75]

12 minutes ago, ED49404 said:

What good are witnesses???  When in international waters where do you go - Princess???

When in international waters, the flag state laws apply.

[donaldsc]

On 1/1/2020 at 5:53 PM, billco said:

It seems to me one solution might be to have a central place to store scooters. When one needs their scooter they could call room service. I believe the responsibility is with the cruise line if scooters are allowed, they should be accommodated.

 

Totally disagree.  People w scooters or wheelchairs should be responsible for them, not the ship.  Also, room service should not be bothered bringing scooters back and forth from storage to the rooms.  If people want that service, they should pay for it.

 

DON

[billco]

38 minutes ago, donaldsc said:

 

Totally disagree.  People w scooters or wheelchairs should be responsible for them, not the ship.  Also, room service should not be bothered bringing scooters back and forth from storage to the rooms.  If people want that service, they should pay for it.

 

DON

After giving this issue some more thought I think I have changed my mind and lean more towards agreeing with you.