HAL's Poor Response to Corona Virus

[Level six]

Well my cruise has come and gone (Westerdam FEB 1 which I didn't show up for)  BUT, I think it is really bad if someone bought an insurance plan when they booked the cruise, before this virus, with all these stipulations and they don't honor it????  WHAT?  It is a contract isn't it?

 

I don't know, it is just crazy IMO. Did she mean future insurance?  

[Vict0riann]

3 minutes ago, Level six said:

Well my cruise has come and gone (Westerdam FEB 1 which I didn't show up for)  BUT, I think it is really bad if someone bought an insurance plan when they booked the cruise, before this virus, with all these stipulations and they don't honor it????  WHAT?  It is a contract isn't it?

 

I don't know, it is just crazy IMO. Did she mean future insurance?  

 

In Canada, yes.  Insurance you purchase after today.  (Or yesterday, I forget...)

[darstamp]

On 2/24/2020 at 5:21 PM, TriumphGuy said:

Not much, I'm afraid. I'm hoping that HAL will do the right thing and cancel  or offer another cruise at a later date, if it comes down to the wire and Europe cannot contain the spread.
I contacted my doc today to ask about the second pneumonia vaccine shot I'm supposed to get after my 66th birthday, (which is in May, after the cruise), and whether he thought I should get it now. He said he would order it for me.
Not sure it will do any good, but can't hurt.
 

I got a prescription for the Prevnar 13 pneumonia vaccine yesterday but the pharmacy wouldn't administer it because it has only been about 6 months since I had the first one and apparently you have to wait a year before you can have the 2nd.  

 

[kazu]

2 hours ago, Vict0riann said:

 

In Canada, yes.  Insurance you purchase after today.  (Or yesterday, I forget...)

 

Absolutely correct.  I checked today with both my medical and trip cancellation/interruption insurance.  fully covered 🙂 

I bought it before my final payment which was 2 days before the covid 19 was shared by China. 😞 

 

The insurance companies are right.  It’s no longer sudden nor unexpected.  It’s an established fact.

 

Those of us that bought earlier are fully covered under the conditions of your policy but do check with your insurance company and be grateful if they have call back.  They are swamped.  they recorded my call and I recorded theirs 😉 

 

[Jim9310]

On HAL’s Grand Voyages, most of the passengers appear to be over 60 years old.  Thus, I recommend the following relevant statistics be considered when booking cruises (or other group events) under present conditions. 

 

The Report of the WHO-China Joint Mission published on Feb. 28 by WHO, which is based on 55,924 laboratory confirmed cases. The report notes that “The Joint Mission acknowledges the known challenges and biases of reporting crude CFR early in an epidemic”

COVID-19 Fatality Rate by AGE:

 

*Death Rate = (number of deaths / number of cases) = probability of dying if infected by the virus (%). This probability differs depending on the age group. The percentages shown below do not have to add up to 100%, as they do NOT represent share of deaths by age group. Rather, it represents, for a person in a given age group, the risk of dying if infected with COVID-19.

AGE	DEATH RATE confirmed cases	DEATH RATE all cases
80+ years old	21.9%	14.8%
70-79 years old		8.0%
60-69 years old		3.6%
50-59 years old		1.3%
40-49 years old		0.4%
30-39 years old		0.2%
20-29 years old		0.2%
10-19 years old		0.2%

 

 

SEX	DEATH RATE confirmed cases	DEATH RATE all cases
Male	4.7%	2.8%
Female	2.8%	1.7%

 

 

PRE-EXISTING CONDITION	DEATH RATE confirmed cases	DEATH RATE all cases
Cardiovascular disease	13.2%	10.5%
Diabetes	9.2%	7.3%
Chronic respiratory disease	8.0%	6.3%
Hypertension	8.4%	6.0%
Cancer	7.6%	5.6%
no pre-existing conditions		0.9%

 

 

 

 

Edited March 5, 2020 by Jim9310
Spacing

[DrFUN]

2 hours ago, kazu said:

 

Absolutely correct.  I checked today with both my medical and trip cancellation/interruption insurance.  fully covered 🙂 

I bought it before my final payment which was 2 days before the covid 19 was shared by China. 😞 

 

The insurance companies are right.  It’s no longer sudden nor unexpected.  It’s an established fact.

 

Those of us that bought earlier are fully covered under the conditions of your policy but do check with your insurance company and be grateful if they have call back.  They are swamped.  they recorded my call and I recorded theirs 😉 

 

 

Sadly, not in USA.... Our travel insurance company (with expensive policy purchased a year ago at initial booking for 4/25-5/10 Westerdam cruise) refused to reimburse us for AA’s fees to cancel and return our miles for our Japan flights to our FF accounts. 👎 Will submit to HAL and hope we get reimbursed.... (Anyone get that fee back from HAL, per their offer re: change fees?)

Edited March 5, 2020 by DrFUN

[kazu]

1 hour ago, DrFUN said:

 

Sadly, not in USA.... Our travel insurance company (with expensive policy purchased a year ago at initial booking for 4/25-5/10 Westerdam cruise) refused to reimburse us for AA’s fees to cancel and return our miles for our Japan flights to our FF accounts. 👎 Will submit to HAL and hope we get reimbursed.... (Anyone get that fee back from HAL, per their offer re: change fees?)

.

My travel insurance does not cover FF miles. I think that is what you are talking about?

They should cover the fees for my cancellation, but frankly, that’s the least of my worries and I will just pay it if it comes down to that.

With our land trip after our cruise, this was a real bucket list trip for us.  

Right now we have no offer from HAL for anything.  I was simply double checking my travel insurance and reporting accordingly 😉 

[sail7seas]

4 hours ago, darstamp said:

I got a prescription for the Prevnar 13 pneumonia vaccine yesterday but the pharmacy wouldn't administer it because it has only been about 6 months since I had the first one and apparently you have to wait a year before you can have the 2nd.  

 

 

 

IMO,  call your personal physician.  The one who gave you the Rx

 

 

 

 

I booked my cruise many months ago and bought my insurance immediately  I was assured it covers pre-exisitng.conditions  No one head of carona virus until Many months later. 

Cancel for any reason insurance means nothing to me in this circumstance.  I  know it is Top of the 'hit parade list' these days but does not mean anything re :  my current question.....   I am not yet in 'penalty period and have not yet made final payment if   I wished to cancel, I easily can do that.

 

MY concern is medical coverage..    ibought a contract to cover(   an insurance policy) me for illness should  I require medical care during my cruise.    Some on these  boards say insurance would (might) not  pay if I were to become  ill with carona virus while on my trip and require.     medical care.  Would insurance under US law  be responsible to pay a claim for medical care under these terms?

 

 

 

 

  No  one  heard of that virus until  many months later

[sail7seas]

I hope to call my insurer tomorrow and inquire asto  my hypothetical.      I hope  I can get a reliable rsponse and the lines are not crazy busy.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Level six]

37 minutes ago, sail7seas said:

I hope to call my insurer tomorrow and inquire asto  my hypothetical.      I hope  I can get a reliable rsponse and the lines are not crazy busy.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Then report back about what you find out.  It is not a concern for me now, but it makes me wonder if the insurance is even worth it if we can't use it as intended.  Thanks

[syesmar]

7 hours ago, DrFUN said:

 

Sadly, not in USA.... Our travel insurance company (with expensive policy purchased a year ago at initial booking for 4/25-5/10 Westerdam cruise) refused to reimburse us for AA’s fees to cancel and return our miles for our Japan flights to our FF accounts. 👎 Will submit to HAL and hope we get reimbursed.... (Anyone get that fee back from HAL, per their offer re: change fees?)

I would imagine HAL will reimburse you for those fees.  If you used a credit card to book the FF awards, you may also be able to file a claim with your card’s insurance.  Some (especially my FF-associated cards) have coverage for change fees on award travel.

[DrFUN]

7 hours ago, syesmar said:

I would imagine HAL will reimburse you for those fees.  If you used a credit card to book the FF awards, you may also be able to file a claim with your card’s insurance.  Some (especially my FF-associated cards) have coverage for change fees on award travel.

Thanks! Hadn’t thought of that – as so much else is going on. Appreciate the advice. 😃 Will report results.

[sail7seas]

On 3/5/2020 at 3:29 PM, kazu said:

 

Absolutely correct.  I checked today with both my medical and trip cancellation/interruption insurance.  fully covered 🙂 

I bought it before my final payment which was 2 days before the covid 19 was shared by China. 😞 

 

The insurance companies are right.  It’s no longer sudden nor unexpected.  It’s an established fact.

 

Those of us that bought earlier are fully covered under the conditions of your policy but do check with your insurance company and be grateful if they have call back.  They are swamped.  they recorded my call and I recorded theirs 😉 
Thanks but I asked about  U.S.  travel insurers, not Canada. 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited March 7, 2020 by sail7seas

[RuthC]

19 minutes ago, sail7seas said:

Thanks but I asked about  U.S.  travel insurers, not Canada. 

This doesn't make sense to me. The post you quoted was a reply to a Canadian poster, not an American. 

[ski ww]

Hopefully with the letter just published from HAL, ref. cancelling cruises by Orlando Ashford this should all be put to rest.

[DrFUN]

3 hours ago, ski ww said:

Hopefully with the letter just published from HAL, ref. cancelling cruises by Orlando Ashford this should all be put to rest.

 

Can’t find the “letter just published.” Please post it and/or provide a direct link. Thanks. 

[cruisemom42]

4 minutes ago, DrFUN said:

 

Can’t find the “letter just published.” Please post it and/or provide a direct link. Thanks. 

 

 

[sail7seas]

35 minutes ago, cruisemom42 said:

 

 

I think some of the letter as posted here is  'missing'.

 

Hopefully someone who can locate it,  will post the rest of the letter.

tia

 

 

 

 

 

[cruisemom42]

4 minutes ago, sail7seas said:

I think some of the letter as posted here is  'missing'.

 

Hopefully someone who can locate it,  will post the rest of the letter.

tia

 

 

 

 

 

 

It is a link to another thread already on this forum. You click on it and it takes you to the full letter.

[DrFUN]

THANKS TO ALL who shared the letter and/or a link! 😍 As others have noted above, those of us who have bookings beyond May 2020 did not receive an email.

[Trivia Buffet]

Here is a full screen of the letter:

 

ID #105461747 View as web page

Dear Holland America Line Guest, I want to personally thank you for choosing Holland America Line for your upcoming cruise. These continue to be unpredictable times, and I remain personally committed to ensuring our guests can cruise with confidence in this period of much uncertainty. Please be assured that Holland America Line takes the health and safety of our guests and crew very seriously. To protect the health and safety of all on board, we are closely monitoring the evolving situation. Holland America Line has deep partnerships with the global health experts from the World Health Organization and U.S. Centers for Disease Control and Prevention, and together, we have developed enhanced screening, prevention and control procedures for our ships to keep guests and crew safe. You can learn more about our enhanced pre-boarding and on board health protocols, along with other important information, from our Chief Medical Officer Dr. Grant Tarling, here. Nevertheless, we understand our guests have questions about their upcoming cruise. As such, I’d like to share these policy updates that provide options and flexibility should you want to reschedule your vacation currently booked between now and May 31, 2020, as well as incentives to proceed with your plans. Guests who choose to keep their booking as currently scheduled for departures between March 6 and May 31 will receive the following Onboard Credit (OBC) amounts: $100 per stateroom ($50 per person) for 6-day cruises (or fewer) $200 per stateroom ($100 per person) for 7-day and longer cruises If you choose to continue to sail with us, we will automatically apply your onboard credit to your booking. There is no need to call us. For guests who booked prior to March 6 and decide to change their vacation plans, we will allow those booked on sailings between now and May 31, 2020, the option of cancelling their booking (no later than March 31, 2020, with a minimum of 72 hours in advance of their departure date). However, this new cancellation program will apply to sailings departing through and including March 9, 2020, which are now within the 72 hour window. Any cancellation will receive a Future Cruise Credit (FCC) for the amount of your cancellation fee, which can be used for another cruise in 2020 or 2021. The FCC must be booked by December 31, 2020. This applies to bookings on spring 2020 Land+Sea Journeys and cruises for all destinations. FCCs are nonrefundable, non-transferrable and do not have to be used on the same destination that was cancelled. We also know that there are people with specific individual health situations that impact their ability to safely travel during these times. For those guests who are able to provide supporting documents from their health care provider, Holland America Line will issue them a Future Cruise Credit. For information on submitting a request with documentation under this “Compassion Policy,” please contact your travel advisor or our Reservations Department. This offer is available for guests booked on any sailing, regardless of departure date. I continue to believe that travel has the power to change us and our world. For 147 years, Holland America Line has been a recognized leader in cruising and weathered many storms. We look forward to introducing guests to new places, people and cultures for years to come. Orlando Ashford President, Holland America Line

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[sail7seas]

Thank you, yeprl...

 

Wonderful looking dog (avatar)

 

🙂

 

 

 

 

 

[USN59-79]

I started this thread to discuss HAL's poor or lack of response to the coronavirus a couple of days before we were to fly to Hong Kong to board the Westerdam.  Reading Mr. Ashford's latest email it is obvious that they have learned a lot in the last month.  However, it isn't clear that they have the ability to respond.  Before I will book another cruise, their are some specific questions I would like answered:  1.  Does the ship have the capability to test a suspected passenger or crew member for COVID-19?

2.  If so, how long does it take from administering the test and getting the results?  3.  What exactly will the ship do if a person onboard tests positive other than quarantine that person to his cabin?  Will all passengers on the ship then be tested?

When we were on the Westerdam, the only test they seemed to have was to point a digital thermometer at your head.  Later, in the hotel in Cambodia, the local health authority tested our temperature, but also stuck a swab down our throat and up our nasal passage, then sent those samples to a downtown lab.  Results were back in less than 24 hours.  Not bad for a "third world country" when you compare it time it has taken for people to get tested here in the Seattle area recently.  It would be good to know if a cruise ship could test all of their crew and passengers in a reasonable time, like two days.

[MAVIP]

5 hours ago, USN59-79 said:

I started this thread to discuss HAL's poor or lack of response 

As far as we know at this very moment:  no HAL ship had infected passengers up to now. 

Edited March 8, 2020 by MAVIP

[USN59-79]

5 hours ago, MAVIP said:

As far as we know at this very moment:  no HAL ship had infected passengers up to now. 

That is true at the moment.  What we experienced on the Westerdam was that doesn't matter if the perception is that you could have an infected person on board.  We were refused entry in a number of countries because we had no way of proving that no one was infected.