HAL's Poor Response to Corona Virus

[cruisemom42]

2 hours ago, ted144 said:

To Cruisemom32:

Yes, I understand that HAL can point to the fine print. Let them replace the trip- but treat customers as if they were important...

 

Sorry -- our perceptions differ. I would rather take the offered trip than have nothing, for reasons already stated. HAL is not going to be able to make everyone happy.

 

Perhaps if these types of issues are of great concern, you should purchase insurance that allows you to cancel for any reason?

 

[ted144]

24 minutes ago, cruisemom42 said:

 

Sorry -- our perceptions differ. I would rather take the offered trip than have nothing, for reasons already stated. HAL is not going to be able to make everyone happy.

 

Perhaps if these types of issues are of great concern, you should purchase insurance that allows you to cancel for any reason?

 

The offered trip is ok, but definitely a significant enough change to warrant more flexibility on behalf of HAL. Even credit towards a future cruise would be something. 
 

Cancel for any reason Insurance is a great idea- for the selling insurance company. If one pays a premium of more than 10% of trip cost to potentially recover 75%, that’s a net return of 65% to the purchaser. 
 

My best guess is that everything may change as the days go on, based on the impact of the coronavirus and its possible spread to more countries. Not sure how the Costa situation will unfold in Italy, but being on a large ship in cases like this is unsettling.  This virus may impact the entire cruise and travel industry if it’s not brought under control, which hopefully will be the case. 

[sail7seas]

On 1/27/2020 at 11:33 AM, USN59-79 said:

We board the Westerdam on 1 February in Hong Kong; ultimate destination Shanghai on 15 February.  Many ships have cancelled those itineraries, including RCI and Costa.  If you look at the roll call for the 1 February cruise, people are panicking, not knowing whether they should fly to Hong Kong in the next day or two or whether they will be able to fly home from Shanghai two weeks later.  What do we hear from HAL?  Silence.

 

 

HOW MANY  CRUISERS HAVE CONTriIBUTED TO THIS   THREAD, ARE CONCERNED AB OUT HAL's  ALLEDGED LACK  OF CON CERN  re:  this  virus yet you have failed to get a current flu shot to protect yourself, family and   the 'herd' who share your 'world'  ?   I would guess, if all are honest, it would be a ridiculously high number!

 

Easy to be critical of ot hers when you do not protect those who you can  by havinvg an annual  flu shot.

[3rdGenCunarder]

1 hour ago, cruisemom42 said:

 

Sorry -- our perceptions differ. I would rather take the offered trip than have nothing, for reasons already stated. HAL is not going to be able to make everyone happy.

 

Perhaps if these types of issues are of great concern, you should purchase insurance that allows you to cancel for any reason?

 

 

(bold is mine) I agree. I understand the disappointment--people wanted to go to China and now they won't. But HAL didn't cause the disease outbreak. They're trying to deal with it in a way that keeps the passengers away from risky ports. If HAL kept the calls at Chinese ports, more people would be complaining about that than about the changed itinerary.

 

[sail7seas]

1 hour ago, cruisemom42 said:

 

Sorry -- our perceptions differ. I would rather take the offered trip than have nothing, for reasons already stated. HAL is not going to be able to make everyone happy.

 

Perhaps if these types of issues are of great concern, you should purchase insurance that allows you to cancel for any reason?

 

Beats me why I am actually responding, however, since you seem  to give advice,......... I    buy insurance, EVERY cruise as soon as I receive the confirmation of my cruise

booking !   Thanks for your'concern' and good advice

 

I still do not like the new itinerary  Not that it matter a bit as I am not booked or traveling to the   Far East.

 

 

Edited January 30, 2020 by sail7seas

[Viv0828]

1 minute ago, sail7seas said:

Bweats me why I am actually responding, however, since you seem  to give advice,......... I    buy insurance, EVERY cruise as soon as I receive the confirmation of my cruise

booking !   Thanks for your'concern' and good advice

 

each to his or her own.

we never buy cancellation insurance. even if we receive nothing for canceling this trip, we are still ahead if we add up all the premiums we did not pay.

we do have emergency medical and evacuation insurance. we can eat the cost of a cancelled cruise but we could not absorb potentially hundreds of thousands of dollars in medical and/or evacuation costs.

our credit card has some insurance on it but i don't want to make a claim till we see what HAL ultimately is going to do. if nothing, we will file on september 16. i still think HAL will do something, but at the very last minute.

[USN59-79]

20 minutes ago, sail7seas said:

 

 

HOW MANY  CRUISERS HAVE CONTriIBUTED TO THIS   THREAD, ARE CONCERNED AB OUT HAL's  ALLEDGED LACK  OF CON CERN  re:  this  virus yet you have failed to get a current flu shot to protect yourself, family and   the 'herd' who share your 'world'  ?   I would guess, if all are honest, it would be a ridiculously high number!

 

Easy to be critical of ot hers when you do not protect those who you can  by havinvg an annual  flu shot.

Not sure how that is relevant here.  We did get our flu shots in September when they were first available.  But the flu shot is not effective against the corona virus.  My concern when I posted this thread was that it was obvious that the Westerdam would not be able to stop in Shanghai; we were just a few days from sailing but there was absolutely no word from HAL.  When contacted they were adamant in stating that there were no changes in the itinerary.  Anyway, we are flying to Hong Kong this evening and expect to have a great cruise.

[DivotMaker]

4 minutes ago, USN59-79 said:

Not sure how that is relevant here.  We did get our flu shots in September when they were first available.  But the flu shot is not effective against the corona virus.  My concern when I posted this thread was that it was obvious that the Westerdam would not be able to stop in Shanghai; we were just a few days from sailing but there was absolutely no word from HAL.  When contacted they were adamant in stating that there were no changes in the itinerary.  Anyway, we are flying to Hong Kong this evening and expect to have a great cruise.

 

I like posts like yours.  Very positive, and making the best of it.  Hope you have a wonderful time.

[sail7seas]

1 minute ago, Viv0828 said:

 

each to his or her own.

we never buy cancellation insurance. even if we receive nothing for canceling this trip, we are still ahead if we add up all the premiums we did not pay.

we do have emergency medical and evacuation insurance. we can eat the cost of a cancelled cruise but we could not absorb potentially hundreds of thousands of dollars in medical and/or evacuation costs.

our credit card has some insurance on it but i don't want to make a claim till we see what HAL ultimately is going to do. if nothing, we will file on september 16. i still think HAL will do something, but at the very last minute.

 

 

  While no one wants to lose money by cancelling, it ids a known amount anf wre did NOT book travel we could not afford  Medical care out of coungry with no insuance can be shocking amountds.  Wer staartedf to insure  and it included cancellation but we were after medical cover.  My DH passed and I now travel as a solo.  Again, if I cannot afford the cruise, I do not book it  but more than that  If   become ill ( and   Ido have a medicaI hhistory.    I  could be far from. home ill and alone.  I now  buy the peace of mind to know I have paid in advance for someone to help me if I am in that circumstance.  I buy insurance  as much  for  the 'side features' as the pay out for a  c laim.r

 

 

sail. noordam@gmail.com

[sail7seas]

15 minutes ago, USN59-79 said:

Not sure how that is relevant here.  We did get our flu shots in September when they were first available.  But the flu shot is not effective against the corona virus.  My concern when I posted this thread was that it was obvious that the Westerdam would not be able to stop in Shanghai; we were just a few days from sailing but there was absolutely no word from HAL.  When contacted they were adamant in stating that there were no changes in the itinerary.  Anyway, we are flying to Hong Kong this evening and expect to have a great cruise.

 

My choice to point out possible hipocrazy.  

 

Wishing you safe travel and a wonderful   time

 

 Bon V oyage

 

[sail7seas]

 Viv,  08

 

I  meant to add we DID save  thousands of dollars that paid for more cruises all  the years we did no t buy  cancellation.  Without A DOUBT  we were very fortunate    never had to cancel once in penalty period.     In our case, we made a good choice b ut not without some risk.

 

 

sail.noordam@gmail.com

Edited January 30, 2020 by sail7seas

[cruisemom42]

1 hour ago, ted144 said:

My best guess is that everything may change as the days go on, based on the impact of the coronavirus and its possible spread to more countries. Not sure how the Costa situation will unfold in Italy, but being on a large ship in cases like this is unsettling.  This virus may impact the entire cruise and travel industry if it’s not brought under control, which hopefully will be the case. 

 

Indeed, there is much that we don't know at this point. For example, how easily does it spread, relative to other viruses, and what is the true mortality rate -- things that will only become clear over time.

 

Right now, the mortality rate is about 2%, but as so many cases are newly reported, the percentage is likely to trend up or down, depending on their outcomes. According to reports, some people in China affected with the virus have had severe, life-threatening symptoms, but some have not.

 

For comparison, the deadly outbreak of Spanish flu in 1918-19, which killed about 5% of the world population, had a mortality rate of up to 20%, which appears to be far higher than this virus. 

 

 

[sail7seas]

8 minutes ago, cruisemom42 said:

 

Indeed, there is much that we don't know at this point. For example, how easily does it spread, relative to other viruses, and what is the true mortality rate -- things that will only become clear over time.

 

Right now, the mortality rate is about 2%, but as so many cases are newly reported, the percentage is likely to trend up or down, depending on their outcomes. According to reports, some people in China affected with the virus have had severe, life-threatening symptoms, but some have not.

 

For comparison, the deadly outbreak of Spanish flu in 1918-19, which killed about 5% of the world population, had a mortality rate of up to 20%, which appears to be far higher than this virus. 

 

 

How many persons  have died from 'ordinary'flu'   ghis season vs corona virus,  to date? Just trying to keep things in tiv e

[Viv0828]

59 minutes ago, sail7seas said:

if I cannot afford the cruise, I do not book it  but more than that  If   become ill ( and   Ido have a medicaI hhistory.    I  could be far from. home ill and alone.  I now  buy the peace of mind to know I have paid in advance for someone to help me if I am in that circumstance.  I buy insurance  as much  for  the 'side features' as the pay out for a  c laim.r

 

excellent logic! you're a winner in my book!

[epixx]

4 hours ago, cruisemom42 said:

 

 

 

Perhaps if these types of issues are of great concern, you should purchase insurance that allows you to cancel for any reason?

 

 

I would suggest something different.  People who would like reimbursement for itinerary change but would be willing to sail on an alternate itinerary should purchase cruise insurance that specifically reimburses for itinerary change, rather than expecting the cruise line to pay for compensation.  There is no reason for the cruise lines to pay customers for itinerary change, when this possibility is already clearly documented in the cruise contract and when this type of insurance is readily available.

[3rdGenCunarder]

24 minutes ago, epixx said:

 

I would suggest something different.  People who would like reimbursement for itinerary change but would be willing to sail on an alternate itinerary should purchase cruise insurance that specifically reimburses for itinerary change, rather than expecting the cruise line to pay for compensation.  There is no reason for the cruise lines to pay customers for itinerary change, when this possibility is already clearly documented in the cruise contract and when this type of insurance is readily available.

 

Is there such insurance (other than cancel for any reason)? I haven't seen it, but I haven't really looked for that as part of an insurance package.

 

Edited January 30, 2020 by 3rdGenCunarder

[ted144]

The reference might be to “cancel for any reason” insurance.  
 

There doesn’t seem to be any support for my position that HAL (or any cruise line) should be more flexible in a case like the present one. The 3-14-20 two week trip is called a China Adventure. When it’s totally changed, six weeks in advance, so that the trip bears no resemblance to the initial offering, it’s not the same as merely skipping a port or two on a journey.  

[Seasick Sailor]

23 minutes ago, ted144 said:

The reference might be to “cancel for any reason” insurance.  
 

There doesn’t seem to be any support for my position that HAL (or any cruise line) should be more flexible in a case like the present one. The 3-14-20 two week trip is called a China Adventure. When it’s totally changed, six weeks in advance, so that the trip bears no resemblance to the initial offering, it’s not the same as merely skipping a port or two on a journey.  

 

Hi ted144, Are you looking to want to cancel your cruise? The itinerary change is a lovely one, even though there's no China adventure..

I believe my fellow posters are sympathetic to your concern, but many seasoned cruiser's are understanding of the fact that cruise lines at times need to change an itinerary and in this case I believe HAL did the right thing. However, personally, I would have wanted the cruise cancelled and refunded, due to my husband having a minor health issue.

[syesmar]

35 minutes ago, 3rdGenCunarder said:

 

Is there such insurance (other than cancel for any reason)? I haven't seen it, but I haven't really looked for that as part of an insurance package.

 

Yes, Nationwide has 3 plans for cruisers.  I have purchased from insuremytrip and have been quite pleased.  They kicked in full coverage when the airline didn’t pay all of our hotel and taxi fare after our flights were cancelled post-cruise.  https://travel.nationwide.com/plans/cruise

[ted144]

Thanks for the input. Not sure yet- just don’t appreciate the lack of flexibility shown by HAL. Reverting to fine print in the contract about port/itinerary changes seems wrong when it’s such a total change. Not that the replacement trip isn’t interesting- just not was signed up for. 

[kazu]

4 hours ago, USN59-79 said:

Anyway, we are flying to Hong Kong this evening and expect to have a great cruise.

 

Have a safe and enjoyable flight and a WONDERFUL cruise 🙂 

[CCMP]

9 hours ago, ted144 said:

Bad HAL management decision- to tell people on a basically ONLY China trip (March 14-29) that a trip to Japan in its place is what they MUST take, or they can cancel on their own and lose half their money.  And deal with flight refunds on their own with the airlines. 
 

I don’t think it’s wrong to change ports on the March 14 (formerly China) two week cruise and offer Japan as a replacement. And it’s obvious they cannot go to China now. 
 

BUT, it’s obnoxious that HAL is not proactively at least offering refunds for those who signed up for China because that was the trip they booked.

 

Many, but not all, will be fine with a replacement trip to Japan.  It is a very different trip- only similar thing is the date.. How can they not give current passengers a choice?  Right now they have put some (previously loyal) passengers in a terrible position. Either take a trip you didn’t choose or cancel and lose 50% of your fare. Lots of irreparable damage to customer goodwill.  A very poor corporate decision. 

If we were only going to lose 50% of our fare, that would be great.  According to HAL, we would lose 100% of our fare but would get the taxes back.  HAL is not offering cancellation with a refund--at least as of my telephone call with a "specialist" yesterday 4:45 p.m. PST.  (Unfortunately, this is the first cruise we have ever booked that we don't have insurance....)  We are booked on the 15th -29th segment.

 

What HAL is offering (by phone call, not by email)  is to allow people to re-book to a different cruise (even much further out date-wise), but if you got a great deal on this cruise from the 15th-29th, you would have to pay any difference on a new cruise and the new cruise would be treated as non-cancellable even if it is months from now.  (HAL is kind of having its cake and eating it, too in the sense that if you are having to pay extra for the new replacement cruise, I don't think that new cruise should then be treated as non-cancellable unless you are truly in that short time frame before the new cruise. I understand their point of view if it is a straight dollar for dollar swap, but not if you have to pay more.)  The way we are looking at it,  we either have to pay a lot more now to change airfare at the last minute to Tokyo or we will have to pay a lot more to cancel and re-book another cruise.  HAL is not giving the option of just leaving our money on deposit with HAL and waiting to re-book when there is a good sale. As of last night, we were planning on paying the extra $$ for the airfare.  As of this morning, our minds changed due to the quarantine of the Costa cruise.  So, for now, we are holding tight as more could develop in the next few days given the quarantine of the Costa cruise and other news that could develop.  There are cases of this virus in both Japan and South Korea and I wonder if Japan or South Korea could decide to close its borders to folks/ships who have been in Hong Kong. I don't want to be quarantined or turned away from a port.....

[cruisemom42]

32 minutes ago, ted144 said:

Thanks for the input. Not sure yet- just don’t appreciate the lack of flexibility shown by HAL. Reverting to fine print in the contract about port/itinerary changes seems wrong when it’s such a total change. Not that the replacement trip isn’t interesting- just not was signed up for. 

 

You may consider it to be "wrong" but it is common to all cruise lines that I am aware of and is often invoked (to a greater or lesser degree); it should not be a huge surprise. On the Celebrity boards a few years back there was a big to-do when not only were a substantial number of ports changed, but also the embarkation port of Istanbul was dropped and the ship was routed elsewhere....  The resulting cruise bore little resemblance to the one folks booked. 

 

As I understand it, our fellow cruisers in the UK have some additional protections against what are considered "substantial" changes like these (they have certain criteria like a certain percentage of ports changed and/or changes to embarkation/disembarkation ports) and they may be able to get more lenient terms as a result. But for the US, them's the rules, and they are often applied.

 

According to CCMP's post above, there are some options on the table from HAL. No solution is going to be 100% perfect for all. 

[npcl]

7 hours ago, Viv0828 said:

 

each to his or her own.

we never buy cancellation insurance. even if we receive nothing for canceling this trip, we are still ahead if we add up all the premiums we did not pay.

we do have emergency medical and evacuation insurance. we can eat the cost of a cancelled cruise but we could not absorb potentially hundreds of thousands of dollars in medical and/or evacuation costs.

our credit card has some insurance on it but i don't want to make a claim till we see what HAL ultimately is going to do. if nothing, we will file on september 16. i still think HAL will do something, but at the very last minute.

By September 16 it will either have been pretty much resolved by then or be so totally out of control that it does not matter where one it. By out of control I mean that it will be widespread over most of the world like a bad flu season.

[npcl]

2 hours ago, cruisemom42 said:

 

You may consider it to be "wrong" but it is common to all cruise lines that I am aware of and is often invoked (to a greater or lesser degree); it should not be a huge surprise. On the Celebrity boards a few years back there was a big to-do when not only were a substantial number of ports changed, but also the embarkation port of Istanbul was dropped and the ship was routed elsewhere....  The resulting cruise bore little resemblance to the one folks booked. 

 

As I understand it, our fellow cruisers in the UK have some additional protections against what are considered "substantial" changes like these (they have certain criteria like a certain percentage of ports changed and/or changes to embarkation/disembarkation ports) and they may be able to get more lenient terms as a result. But for the US, them's the rules, and they are often applied.

 

According to CCMP's post above, there are some options on the table from HAL. No solution is going to be 100% perfect for all. 

For that matter just think back to the Swine Flu outbreak in 2009 when a number of Mexican Riviera cruises turns in to California Coastal cruises. That is probably the closest example of cruise routes changed due to an outbreak.

Edited January 30, 2020 by npcl