Diamond Princess passenger "tested positive for Wuhan coronavirus"

[Two4Sea]

2 hours ago, chengkp75 said:

Princess, contractually, owes them nothing, since that is the amount of "paid vacation" they are entitled to.  So, these folks are getting two months pay over and above what any other Princess crew gets.

 

I'll second your motion, Chief.

 

People who receive paid vacations are not paid more. We need to first compare two identical workers with identical total compensation, for identical work and in the same market. Do the look with a scheme like cruise ships where they typically work 4 months on, 2 months off twice in a year. If the first worker's Union chose an unpaid vacation basis he would receive 8 cheques of say $3000 each for 8 months work, total $24,000. If the second worker's Union chose a paid vacation basis he would receive 12 monthly cheques of $2000 each for the 8 months work. IE a total of $24,000 as identical compensation for identical work. The difference is only that the second worker, through his union, is wanting his cheques redivided from 8 to 12 for the convenience of managing his home spending. He is getting no more, no less pay. The first worker is just doing his own cash flow management.

 

For Princess's current case our example unpaid vacation worker would be getting 10 $3000 cheques for 8 months work, total $30,000. I've used simple numbers here but several years ago €20,000 per year was being cited as typical pay. You can choose whatever base salary and overtime you want, so long as you apply identical figures to my two examples you'll get the same base conclusion.

 

Bill

[Cindy]

58 minutes ago, bluesea321 said:

A good detailed article (and free) describing the current US passenger situation:

 

"Lawrence Gostin, a professor of global health law at Georgetown University, said the inconsistent treatment of the Americans who were on the ship put them at greater risk and threatens to expose more people to infection. We’re trying to stop the spread of a novel, emerging disease that could turn into a global pandemic. We know how to do this. Yet Gostin, who's also director of the World Health Organization's center on public health law, said the response to the Diamond Princess crisis was virtually medieval. Gostin faults Princess Cruises for keeping the passengers on board a ship that was not designed to contain an infection. He faults the Japanese government for allowing passengers to disembark without a quarantine. And he said U.S. officials erred by putting the 14 Americans who tested positive on two evacuation planes with others who had tested negative. It was a comedy of errors, he said."

https://www.usatoday.com/story/travel/cruises/2020/02/21/coronavirus-americans-limbo-post-diamond-princess-cruise-ship-quarantine/4818075002/

 

I wonder how he would have recommended Princess disembark passengers when the Japanese government said the ship was quarantined and all had to remain aboard?

[Pushka]

Now a total of 4 Aussies who were evacuated and tested negative prior to flight have now tested positive in the Australian quarantine station and relocated to isolation in hospitals. How many were on that flight? 

[Pushka]

4 hours ago, em-sk said:

 

There are hundreds of cabins on this ship that belonged to people who tested negative.  You would assume they would use those cabins first.  

 

Hostels are normally multiple people sharing the same bedroom.  Not an idea place to be placing anyone.  

 

As for being in a foreign country alone.  The crew is on a ship they have spent months on, with people they have know for months to years.  

 

The crew is on a British ship under British law.  Not certain what rules apply in the UK, however I would expect that in most western countries if a government imposed quarantine is implemented at your work site you can't go after your employer in court for following a lawful quarantine order. 

 

Should the crew be given more vacation or paid more? Probably.  

 

 

And these are testing positive when they arrive - eg into Australia. 

[charmed1959]

The CDC now says there are 18 Diamond Princess passengers brought back to the US that have tested positive. Eleven of that number were the folks that tested positive before they got on the plane and were retested in Omaha.  I’m confused whether the 12th one did not retest positive or if they stayed in California and are included those.
 

[conwakr]

I agree that while it is easy to catch, and in that respects similar to the flu and vaccinated persons some of whom catch the flu and some who do not. This does seem to impact people along a wide scale of symptoms from virtually none to severe consequences for people in compromised physical condition.  I got a virus a couple years ago Parvovirus B19 - who knows where i got it - probably from a shopping cart that had a kiddo drooling on the handle - but I had a pretty severe course of the virus over several months.  I was also very, very stressed out at the time and probably not able to fight off the virus due to the physical stress in my life. Healthy and probably the fit and the young people do have a better chance of fighting this virus it feels like from anecdotal reports. When this passes it will be interesting to look at he statistics.

[Pushka]

9 minutes ago, charmed1959 said:

The CDC now says there are 18 Diamond Princess passengers brought back to the US that have tested positive. Eleven of that number were the folks that tested positive before they got on the plane and were retested in Omaha.  I’m confused whether the 12th one did not retest positive or if they stayed in California and are included those.
 

And of those evacuated from Australia on Wednesday night, we have four confirmed. All of these people tested negative before they got on the plane but one actually fell ill on the flight and was tested immediately on arrival. All she had was a sore throat and runny nose. 
 

When it was advised in Australia that all evacuees were to be put into isolation on arrival as per the USA and Canada process as well, some were complaining that this was an infringement of people’s rights and the Government had no power to do this. Those people have now shut their mouths and have simply disappeared out of the media. Thank Goodness many Governments have acted with the safety of their Country in mind.

 

At the very last minute a positive test was found in one of the intending evacuees and she was not allowed on the evac flight. 

Edited February 21, 2020 by Pushka

[Coral]

16 minutes ago, charmed1959 said:

The CDC now says there are 18 Diamond Princess passengers brought back to the US that have tested positive. Eleven of that number were the folks that tested positive before they got on the plane and were retested in Omaha.  I’m confused whether the 12th one did not retest positive or if they stayed in California and are included those.
 

Not a direct answer - Quoting USA Today:

Eighteen Americans that had previously been on board Princess Cruises' Diamond Princess are infected with coronavirus. 

Eleven of them are hospitalized in Nebraska. Five are under quarantine in Texas, as are another two in California, said Dr. Nancy Messonnier, director of the Center for the National Center for Immunization and Respiratory Diseases, said at a Friday press briefing by the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention.

The 11 hospitalized in Nebraska were part a group of 13 Diamond Princess cruise ship evacuees taken to the University of Nebraska Medical Center Monday after passengers arrived in the U.S. have tested positive for coronavirus, the medical facility confirmed Thursday night.

 

https://www.usatoday.com/story/travel/cruises/2020/02/21/coronavirus-diamond-princess-cruise-evacuees-test-positive-nebraska/4829248002/ 

[Aus Traveller]

6 hours ago, Kelownabccan said:

Princess Crew.....one would hope that Princess is not going to transfer the crew all over the fleet without some thought to the rest of the crew/staff and passengers all over the world.....what kind of testing is going on for them and quarantine.....?????.....all seems really quiet on this topic.....we are on a Princess ship in a month or so and would wish that crew and staff on that ship would not be sent to from the Diamond if not gone through a "quarantine" period....it would be nice to see some sort of "press" release from Princess on the topic.....????  or am I being to realistic???

The crew are all going home after they leave Japan. They have two months' paid leave. Would that be a sufficiently-long quarantine period?

[Aus Traveller]

6 hours ago, hal2008 said:

 

Would you be moving into a cabin just vacated by an infected person? 

Most of the posters here do not want to take cruise on ANY ship ANYWHERE in Asia!!!!

 

Just put yourself in shoes of that semi-educated crew member.

You are in foreign country. Alone.

 

The crew are not 'semi-educated'. A lot of the waiters and stewards have University degrees, but choose to work on cruise ships because they get better pay than they would at home. Other crew have trade qualifications - electricians, plumbers etc. The crew who clean the decks probably don't have such a high level of education.

[Aus Traveller]

6 hours ago, chengkp75 said:

And, what difference would a hotel over the ship make?  You're just changing the quarantine boundary, and enlarging the risk factors by having a quarantine in a place where people can more easily get out of the quarantine boundary.

I agree that putting people in a hotel exposes a lot of others to risk of infection. Just consider the Canadian entertainer from the Westerdam who was quarantined in a hotel in Phnom Penh. He bragged how he went out the back door of the hotel because there wasn't any security on that door. He booked flights and went to Bangkok, then Dubai, then to Canada where he went home. 

[Aus Traveller]

6 hours ago, hal2008 said:

Be careful. Being sympathetic to crew is not been taken kindly on this board.

Princess has offered two months of contractual minimum base pay and contractually guaranteed minimum gratuity (this is NOT same as what typical crew receive per week actually in usual course)

We have seen some posters expecting crew to be "grateful" for "generosity" shown by Princess!!!

 

Even though Japaneese authority was in charge of the quarrantine, Princess was involved in many decisions.

 

There were and are plenty of things Princess could have arranged very easily:

- Arrange for food delivery from outside which they eventually did after so many crew members were sickened working 16+ hours in dangerous condiitons

- Arrange for isolated sleeping on ship (there were plenty of unused spaces on the ship to put up one person tents)

- Let crew communicate with their family freely/frequently

- Arrange for couseling from home country

- Given the cirmcumstances, "battle-pay" for horrible workintg condition could certainly be more than the two months worth of contractual minimum 

 

Once can wonder what is more reprenensible though - action/inaction of Princess or posts in defense of Princess against poor crew members

I question a few of your comments:

1. "Crew working 16+ hours". Which crew would that be? Usual working days are around 10 hours. Why would they be working 16+ hours when no cabins were being cleaned and no waiters and bar staff doing their normal duties. Who has stated this as a fact? I suspect the working hours would have been reduced from the normal level for most of the crew.

2. "Arrange for isolated sleeping on ship in one person tents". Would this help much when they were working several hours a day with others.

3. "Let crew communicate with their family freely/frequently". They would have had access to the internet as they usually do.

4. "Arrange for counselling from home country". Maybe this would be better than the counselling available on board.

5. "two months' worth of contractual minimum". Princess announced that they would receive their normal pay and (in the case of those who usually get tips) the equivalent amount to what they usually get.

[Wehwalt]

5 hours ago, Viv0828 said:

wow. The generosity of some of the folks here is underwhelming. The crew spends several weeks doing biohazard duty (probably not even mentioned in their contract) so send them home with an extra few hundred bucks and all is done. 

Concur. So much talk on the thread advocating ungenerous and downright harsh treatment for crew and passengers.^

Edited February 21, 2020 by Wehwalt

[Aus Traveller]

5 hours ago, Viv0828 said:

wow. The generosity of some of the folks here is underwhelming. The crew spends several weeks doing biohazard duty (probably not even mentioned in their contract) so send them home with an extra few hundred bucks and all is done. 

Two months' pay is more than  "an extra few hundred bucks". It is thousands.

[mtmatull]

Heart breaking to hear David & Sally, from the Diamond Princess, have again been moved and both now have pneumonia, Covid19, a cold and flu per their son Steve. They have been moved out of the original hospital to one that sounds much inferior to where they were and have been told no treatment until they are tested in a couple of days.  No IV, no antibiotics, no steroids.  This does not sound good.  I feel for them and their family.

 

 

[Magellan321]

Just now, mtmatull said:

Heart breaking to hear David & Sally, from the Diamond Princess, have again been moved and both now have pneumonia, Covid19, a cold and flu per their son Steve. They have been moved out of the original hospital to one that sounds much inferior to where they were and have been told no treatment until they are tested in a couple of days.  No IV, no antibiotics, no steroids.  This does not sound good.  I feel for them and their family.

 

 

It's time to get these people home or at least to the US Naval Hospital in Yokosuka till the UK can get them out

 

[mtmatull]

6 minutes ago, JennAngel9 said:

This is horrifying-- in fact, so horrifying that I presume it is wrong.  Perhaps one of the doctors on here can chime in but I've never heard of not treating pneumonia in any situation and certainly not this disease where once you hit critical then survival rates are not good.

I totally agree! His son, Steve, and DIL are distraught about this situation and having an extremely difficult time getting information. Princess is delivering an iPhone to them today and hopefully this will allow some communication.

 

[Coral]

7 minutes ago, npcl said:

 In the case of Covid-19 the only treatments are palliative care.  If they have trouble breathing then oxygen. 

They are giving Gatorade to the people in Nebraska Medicine  That is the only thing special that they are giving (by one report of a person in biocontainment unit).

 

Edited February 22, 2020 by Coral

[Viv0828]

56 minutes ago, Aus Traveller said:

Two months' pay is more than  "an extra few hundred bucks". It is thousands.

 

if 2 months pay really was thousands, the cruiselines would be way more open about their pay scales. i'll bet ya it is in the low hundreds plus maybe a few hundred more in grats. i'd love to see a published salary scale for room stewards and kitchen help.

[npcl]

4 minutes ago, Viv0828 said:

 

if 2 months pay really was thousands, the cruiselines would be way more open about their pay scales. i'll bet ya it is in the low hundreds plus maybe a few hundred more in grats. i'd love to see a published salary scale for room stewards and kitchen help.

I assume that you have worked for companies.  How many have been "open" about their pay scales?  Can you go to any company in the US and request a copy of all of their salaries?  They are not open, because to put it simply it is the business of themselves, their employees, any 3rd party organizations such as unions and recruiters, and the governments to whom they pay taxes, not to anyone else.

[rabidstoat]

7 minutes ago, Viv0828 said:

 

if 2 months pay really was thousands, the cruiselines would be way more open about their pay scales. i'll bet ya it is in the low hundreds plus maybe a few hundred more in grats. i'd love to see a published salary scale for room stewards and kitchen help.

 

Found an article on cruisecritic that talks about average salaries: https://www.cruisecritic.com/articles.cfm?ID=261

 

According to this, with gratuities the average room steward makes $650 to $1150 a month, but that counts heavily on gratuities. An entry level job like 'kitchen cleaner' makes about $600 per month.

[thistledoo]

14 minutes ago, arabrab said:

 

The doctors in Japan are not stupid.  If it comes to the point that they think some medication will be helpful, I'm sure it will be administered. Throwing drugs at a problem is not always the solution. And, there are other supports (breathing treatments, oxygen) which might be used.

There seems to be a real language barrier.   One of the family needs to fly to Japan to assess the situation if they are so worried.

[em-sk]

3 hours ago, Pushka said:

Now a total of 4 Aussies who were evacuated and tested negative prior to flight have now tested positive in the Australian quarantine station and relocated to isolation in hospitals. How many were on that flight? 

 

Looks like one of the Canadian is sick.  They are not certain if it is the virus or something else.  Still waiting on tests.

 

Good article on the Canadian evacuation (and the link works).  Some videos from inside the flight as well as some video of the accommodation.  Looks like a small hotel room. Sounds like counselling is availability.  Hopefully they will get some time outside or in the common areas as things progress.

 

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/ottawa/diamond-princess-coronavirus-trenton-cornwall-1.5470386  

 

 

[Pushka]

6 minutes ago, em-sk said:

 

Looks like one of the Canadian is sick.  They are not certain if it is the virus or something else.  Still waiting on tests.

 

Good article on the Canadian evacuation (and the link works).  Some videos from inside the flight as well as some video of the accommodation.  Looks like a small hotel room. Sounds like counselling is availability.  Hopefully they will get some time outside or in the common areas as things progress.

 

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/ottawa/diamond-princess-coronavirus-trenton-cornwall-1.5470386  

 

 

 

And just this morning another two positives. Up to six. They only arrived Thursday morning. 

[Pushka]

10 minutes ago, thistledoo said:

There seems to be a real language barrier.   One of the family needs to fly to Japan to assess the situation if they are so worried.

Agree. That is exactly what I’d do. I think the DIL seems very level headed as she is just a little more removed than his son who naturally is very stressed about his parents and I don’t think that’s helping right now. I haven’t seen the tweets but I think that social media isn’t helping him right now.