Diamond Princess passenger "tested positive for Wuhan coronavirus"

[bluesea321]

1 minute ago, kathy49 said:

i just hope plans are in the works to test each and every one that leaves the ship...they will be disbursing all over the world and are coming from the second largest concentration of reported cases. This cannot happen without definitive testing.

 

Looks like Japan will expand testing to perhaps all. I anticipate a substantial number of new cases and those positive on Feb 18 (and their mates) may have to stay on the ship.

 

Prime Minister Shinzo Abe on Wednesday said that the government will bolster testing capabilities for those on the cruise ship to about 1,000 samples per day by Feb. 18 by allowing testing at private facilities. So far, only up to about 300 samples can be tested each day at public health centers nationwide. Kato said the government is contemplating testing all passengers and crew members.

https://www.japantimes.co.jp/news/2020/02/12/national/science-health/40-new-coronavirus-cases-cruise-ship-quarantined-japan/#.XkQ74RNKjPA

 

 

 

[Psoque]

13 minutes ago, kathy49 said:

i just hope plans are in the works to test each and every one that leaves the ship...they will be disbursing all over the world and are coming from the second largest concentration of reported cases. This cannot happen without definitive testing.

The hole point of quarantine is to keep those who might  be infected (everyone on Diamond Princess, in this example) on quarantine for at least the length of incubation period, then decide what to do.  Obviously, we don't know the exact incubation period or the interpersonal variations of it, I don't think testing all 3,600 people is absolutely necessary or feasible as long as the quarantine is done properly.

[kathy49]

15 minutes ago, bluesea321 said:

 

Looks like Japan will expand testing to perhaps all. I anticipate a substantial number of new cases and those positive on Feb 18 (and their mates) may have to stay on the ship.

 

Prime Minister Shinzo Abe on Wednesday said that the government will bolster testing capabilities for those on the cruise ship to about 1,000 samples per day by Feb. 18 by allowing testing at private facilities. So far, only up to about 300 samples can be tested each day at public health centers nationwide. Kato said the government is contemplating testing all passengers and crew members.

https://www.japantimes.co.jp/news/2020/02/12/national/science-health/40-new-coronavirus-cases-cruise-ship-quarantined-japan/#.XkQ74RNKjPA

 

 

 

I think they have to test every one.  I have to wonder if they are getting financial assistance from the respective governments involved.  They should be. I am sure he is getting pressure from each government too.

[Viv0828]

20 minutes ago, Grburkart said:

My point being I don’t think Princess is being cheap offering the crew 2 months paid leave as the poster suggests.

 

i think 2 or 3 months paid leave (including paid flights home and back) is very nice, unless this drags out for a substantially longer time. then they will deserve more.

Edited February 12, 2020 by Viv0828

[NorthwestCruiser]

Perhaps off topic but many years ago my team was sent to New York from the West Coast as part of a ship party.   One of our testers was a shy woman from mainland China and being the lead I was a little concerned that New York might be a bit overwhelming to her.  It is overwhelming to me.   We were walking along with our group looking at the crowds and buildings and she spoke up -- she said that this was all very interesting but when were we going to get to New York City?

 

We were standing in Times Square.  

 

We then had an interesting conversation comparing Beijing and New York City.   

[Mich3554]

If this had happened in the US, I doubt that there is little that would be done differently.  
 

[LizNeedsAVacation]

So silly question for anyone that has been to Japan... where does Japan fit on the “reducing/banning single-use plastics” front? It occurred to me this morning that one of the big complaints from the sidelines is that the crew and passengers should not be using reusable plates and forks and such. But I’m doubting that they had enough of those (much less for a cruise ship) available.

We’ve done the behind the scenes tours on both Princess and Royal and the ship needs A LOT of plates, cubes, food, etc for even a couple days. 
Just an odd musing as I thought today “well this is one time I’d support the waste of single-use disposable items”

[flowery]

Re: the "minimal protection" of the initial "quarantine officers":

They were protected minimally which is sad for them but how much infection did they spread? They weren't accompanied by anyone standing outside the room with a garbage bag for the used gloves and ear scan covers. How many pairs of gloves and how many ear scan thermometer covers were in each officer's pocket? How many could their pockets hold? Did they have dozens of each in their pockets?

How did they retrieve these items each time from their pockets? Were they also fishing around in their pockets for pens and a note pad?

David Abel said they didn't change out the ear scan cover between himself and his wife.

The whole scenario is bizarre and defies common sense and medical sense. I wouldn't be surprised to hear that they wore the same pair of gloves for everyone they checked on. They were protecting themselves (very minimally) but not the passengers and crew it seems.

 

 

 

[AF-1]

Crewmembers pay for internet, laundry, crew bar(discounted quite a bit), anything else onboard the ship that they may need like asprin, sunscreen etc.  Most of the time when they are docked they go ashore and buy these supplies for a cheaper price.  If you watch YouTube videos that crewmembers post; they are usually asked the question; what do you have to pay for onboard

Edited February 12, 2020 by AF-1

[bluesea321]

Very interesting article on the Japan Times. Per the article they have only tested a small percentage of pax/crew. I anticipate a large number of new cases when they test everyone.

 

"Health minister Katsunobu Kato said Wednesday his ministry will seek measures to screen everyone aboard the ship.

A health ministry official confirmed Wednesday that only 492 samples have been collected so far, noting that the figure includes specimens collected from the same people multiple times.

 

https://www.japantimes.co.jp/news/2020/02/12/national/science-health/japan-covid-19-test-kit-shortage-cruise-ship/#.XkRGthNKjPA

[Viv0828]

1 hour ago, Kmkub said:

Princess is giving them two months pay, an airplane ticket to anywhere in the world and comping all their on board charges for this cruise and during the quarantine. They don't have to do any of that. This isn't their fault.

 

actually, i think they really do. moral obligation.

[voljeep]

I can't imagine being on board … and maybe on the 17th or so … hearing "The Announcement" that Japan will not let us disembark all passengers … wow, 

[mayleeman]

9 minutes ago, Viv0828 said:

 

actually, i think they really do. moral obligation.

 

So, to you a moral obligation is the same as a contractual or legal obligation. Very interesting perspective.

[AF-1]

Keep your employees happy.  Good on Princess.  

[Stateroom_Sailor]

56 minutes ago, Psoque said:

The hole point of quarantine is to keep those who might  be infected (everyone on Diamond Princess, in this example) on quarantine for at least the length of incubation period, then decide what to do.  Obviously, we don't know the exact incubation period or the interpersonal variations of it, I don't think testing all 3,600 people is absolutely necessary or feasible as long as the quarantine is done properly.

 

I don't think you're understanding the situation.  We have sick people onboard not being tested, or removed.   At least up until the crew stopped prepping the food, there was mass exposure (5 food handlers taken off the ship).  We don't know how airborne this is, but it is most certainly transmissible from droplets off verandas, or walking around on deck.  We have one quarantine officer who got inflected with mask and gloves.  Someone on the ship could be contaminated tomorrow or next week for the first time.  The ship is the quarantine.  No one should be let go on the 19th unless they've already recovered, and no longer contagious.

[bluesea321]

This is not good at all. She should be off the ship. I suspect that the number of infections will go up dramatically once they test all on board.

 

"Sonali Thakkar, 24, from Mumbai, has worked for Princess Cruises for the past two years. She is part of the security team on board the ship, working on the gangway as passengers are moved on and off. Thakkar said she and her colleague -- who she shares a cabin with -- became ill with a headache, cough and a fever two days ago. "I'm not eating very well and have been having fevers," she told CNN in a Skype call Wednesday. We all are really scared and tense. Thakkar fears that the virus may be spreading around the crew members. Thakkar's colleagues continue to live and work in close proximity with each other, sharing cabins and eating together."

https://www.cnn.com/2020/02/12/asia/princess-diamond-cruise-crew-intl-hnk/index.html

 

 

 

Edited February 12, 2020 by bluesea321

[Psoque]

15 minutes ago, Stateroom_Sailor said:

 

I don't think you're understanding the situation.  We have sick people onboard not being tested, or removed.   At least up until the crew stopped prepping the food, there was mass exposure (5 food handlers taken off the ship).  We don't know how airborne this is, but it is most certainly transmissible from droplets off verandas, or walking around on deck.  We have one quarantine officer who got inflected with mask and gloves.  Someone on the ship could be contaminated tomorrow or next week for the first time.  The ship is the quarantine.  No one should be let go on the 19th unless they've already recovered, and no longer contagious.

I'm not on board Diamond Princess,  and I am not privy to all of the information regarding all of the passengers/crew onboard, but if there is a very good evidence that more people were newly exposed and infected (these are two different things, by the way) by this virus after the quarantine started, they may have to first consider extending the quarantine.  Just testing everyone (and yes, even those who recovered from the illness) for the virus, not just the antibody against it (since a typical coronavirus is known to often re-infect the same person without a huge mutation), is neither feasible or even reliable, since there will be enough false positive results when we test that many people with low pre-test probability...and there is bound to be a lot of false negative results if the person is just infected...but I'm using too many medical jargons.

Edited February 12, 2020 by Psoque

[luckyinpa]

55 minutes ago, LizNeedsAVacation said:

So silly question for anyone that has been to Japan... where does Japan fit on the “reducing/banning single-use plastics” front? It occurred to me this morning that one of the big complaints from the sidelines is that the crew and passengers should not be using reusable plates and forks and such. But I’m doubting that they had enough of those (much less for a cruise ship) available.

We’ve done the behind the scenes tours on both Princess and Royal and the ship needs A LOT of plates, cubes, food, etc for even a couple days. 
Just an odd musing as I thought today “well this is one time I’d support the waste of single-use disposable items”

 

and they could hire people in boats next to the ship to catch all the waste that is thrown in the ocean (i'm assuming people toss straws in the ocean, otherwise how do they get there)

[repo-cruiser]

https://www.straitstimes.com/asia/east-asia/top-chinese-expert-zhong-nanshan-clarifies-only-1-case-in-coronavirus-study-shows-24

 

- "Only one in a sample of 1,099 patients infected with the new coronavirus was found to have an incubation period of as long as 24 days, a top Chinese scientist has clarified."

 " Dr Zhong Nanshan, a prominent scientist who is leading a government-appointed panel of experts to help control the coronavirus outbreak, said on Tuesday (Feb 11) that caution is needed because there is not enough evidence to regard 24 days as the longest incubation period for the coronavirus, Xinhua reported."

 

[luckyinpa]

3 hours ago, Alcairns said:

Princess have done the right thing on every aspect of this unprecedented incident. Well done to the Princess team!

 

i just read though that the feb 13 cruise was just canceled today. thats reallllly not enough notice for as far as a lot of people travel to get there. those people wont be happy.

 

regarding this 2 months vacation i wonder if the ship will be closed during that time or can they just hire 1000 new people in a week or so?

[ed01106]

2 hours ago, Kmkub said:

I'm also confused by that comment. The people being quarantined have no vote on the quarantine. This entire thing is nobody's fault, really.

 

How to care for passengers:

1. Let the PAX starve (not an option)

2. Let the PAX wander around the kitchens and make their own food (not an option)

3. Crew has to do it.

 

Nobody on shore was prepared on day one to prepare 10K meals every day. Maybe they are working on it, but the logistics to get that done isn't something that happens in a few hours.

 

I'm not clear what option people think would have been a better solution than the crew prepping and delivering food.

 

 

 

 

4. Place a request to the nearest US Military base for 10,000 MREs until an off ship catering system can be put in place.  Not exactly fine dining but better than spreading disease.  And I am sure such a humanitarian request would be honored.

[Croptop]

Solid response, Princess. Bravo. I'm happy to read that the crew will be looked after and, indeed, rewarded for their work above and beyond the normal call of duty.

[perditax]

12 minutes ago, repo-cruiser said:

https://www.straitstimes.com/asia/east-asia/top-chinese-expert-zhong-nanshan-clarifies-only-1-case-in-coronavirus-study-shows-24

- "Only one in a sample of 1,099 patients infected with the new coronavirus was found to have an incubation period of as long as 24 days, a top Chinese scientist has clarified."

 " Dr Zhong Nanshan, a prominent scientist who is leading a government-appointed panel of experts to help control the coronavirus outbreak, said on Tuesday (Feb 11) that caution is needed because there is not enough evidence to regard 24 days as the longest incubation period for the coronavirus, Xinhua reported."

 

Now the same people who were yelling about the 24 day incubation period yesterday are going to come back and claim that this is obviously the Chinese government trying to silence the info. 

[kathy49]

23 minutes ago, Psoque said:

I'm not on board Diamond Princess,  and I am not privy to all of the information regarding all of the passengers/crew onboard, but if there is a very good evidence that more people were newly exposed and infected (these are two different things, by the way) by this virus after the quarantine started, they may have to first consider extending the quarantine.  Just testing everyone (and yes, even those who recovered from the illness) for the virus, not just the antibody against it (since a typical coronavirus is known to often re-infect the same person without a huge mutation), is neither feasible or even reliable, since there will be enough false positive results when we test that many people with low pre-test probability...and there is bound to be a lot of false negative results if the person is just infected...but I'm using too many medical jargons.

boy i don't think extending this quarantine is really the solution  here...what are they just going to wait until everyone gets it? That meal prep not being handled off ship was a bad mistake.

[kathy49]

1 hour ago, flowery said:

Re: the "minimal protection" of the initial "quarantine officers":

They were protected minimally which is sad for them but how much infection did they spread? They weren't accompanied by anyone standing outside the room with a garbage bag for the used gloves and ear scan covers. How many pairs of gloves and how many ear scan thermometer covers were in each officer's pocket? How many could their pockets hold? Did they have dozens of each in their pockets?

How did they retrieve these items each time from their pockets? Were they also fishing around in their pockets for pens and a note pad?

David Abel said they didn't change out the ear scan cover between himself and his wife.

The whole scenario is bizarre and defies common sense and medical sense. I wouldn't be surprised to hear that they wore the same pair of gloves for everyone they checked on. They were protecting themselves (very minimally) but not the passengers and crew it seems.

 

 

 

yes way back when David said they were not changing out the scan cover I thought ???? On the box it clearly states to change after each use...and for each patient.