CoronaVirus Impact on the Cruise Industry

[Charles4515]

48 minutes ago, Sea for Two said:

Even under the new policy of Royal Caribbean "Cruise with Confidence" where you can cancel any cruise through July 31st for a Future Cruise Credit to be used before December 31, 2021?

 

If the credit was open ended that would be one thing but I have had those credits with expiration dates and they were not easy for me to use before the end date. The Cruise with Confidence does not give me any confidence. I would not book unless I can get a refund.

Edited March 10, 2020 by Charles4515

[sfaaa]

20 hours ago, rolloman said:

Here you go. Company is called Greffex. They have the vaccine now. Mainly because they had it for SARS back in the day and it works for Covid-19 because most scientists refer to this as SARS 2. Evidently if a Pandemic is declared, this can be fast tracked without all the trials.

https://nypost.com/2020/02/20/texas-based-company-has-reportedly-created-a-coronavirus-vaccine/

Imagine all the future potential law suits and liability claims if the untested vaccine leads to nasty side effects and other health issues down the road. No, it cannot be administrated untested on a national scale. 

[Billy Baltic]

5 hours ago, KnowTheScore said:

While ever they insist on quarantining every passenger when 1 person gets the virus then the entire industry is going to be up the swanny.  Few will want to spend £000s running the risk of being confined to their cabins for 2 weeks even when they don't have the virus or any symptoms.  

 

The cruise sector HAS to agree a different set of protocols with the CDC/WHO otherwise they will continue to lose $billions in business simple as.

Clarity at last. 
This IMO is going to decide where the cruise industry goes from here. Two options:
1/ Agree new protocols, publicise them, enforce them and survive.

2/ Continue leaving people open to the whim of knee jerk decision making and potentially being held in a giant incubator for weeks. This will continue to destroy their 2020 business and perhaps beyond. 

 

[ldubs]

11 hours ago, rolloman said:

Ok so far, from this thread, I have learned...a contingency plan of utilizing offshore private islands (currently in use) as a 14 day cruise ship quarantine period is a solution the cruise lines are not even considering. In addition, hospital ships capable of treating passengers during a 14 day quarantine period do not exist (please disregard the US owned two ships "Comfort and Mercy" even though " each ship contains 12 operating rooms, a 1000-bed hospital facility, radiological services, medical lab, pharmacy, intensive care ward, CT scanner and two oxygen producing plants. They also have helicopter decks to assist with patient transport.  I also learned the new vaccine created by Greffex is a hoax (even though the CEO was on the news yesterday 3/9/20 discussing its availability and timeline). Finally, Dr. Oz is a quack. Whew...all I can say is thank god for Cruise Critic. 

 

I assume the last part of your litany was about my comment.  Another miscomprehension.  Hopefully not done on purpose.   

[ontheweb]

1 hour ago, sfaaa said:

Imagine all the future potential law suits and liability claims if the untested vaccine leads to nasty side effects and other health issues down the road. No, it cannot be administrated untested on a national scale. 

OTOH, they could pass a law exempting them from liability because of the emergency. It would be like the law exempting gun manufacturers from liability for the use of their product.

[Ava79]

On 2/25/2020 at 1:36 PM, OzKiwiJJ said:

Australia is not getting hit by the virus, we have only had 22 cases so far. 15 of those were diagnosed early on, all linked to people who had travelled from China before travel bans were put in place. Many of those people have recovered. The remainder of the cases are people who were on Diamond Princess.

 

New Zealand does not have any cases of the virus. 

I'm sorry but how did Australia not suffer from the virus, if there were detected cases all in all? Yes it came from people who have returned from other countries but still those who become ill carry a potential threat of further infection in your county

[Ava79]

2 hours ago, sfaaa said:

Imagine all the future potential law suits and liability claims if the untested vaccine leads to nasty side effects and other health issues down the road. No, it cannot be administrated untested on a national scale. 

I completely agree with you. It remains to wait for an official announcement that the vaccine's been developed, tested and can be used in treatment. But no matter how hard the scientists try, it will still take a long time anyway, so for now we just have to follow simple precautions, such as not attending events with lots of people, enhanced hygiene, and so on

[Charles4515]

33 minutes ago, Ava79 said:

I completely agree with you. It remains to wait for an official announcement that the vaccine's been developed, tested and can be used in treatment. But no matter how hard the scientists try, it will still take a long time anyway, so for now we just have to follow simple precautions, such as not attending events with lots of people, enhanced hygiene, and so on

After a vaccine has been developed and can be used, say that happens in a year or so, it still has to be produced in a factory somewhere and produced in volume. It could be three years. 

[Cee_Jay]

AV 70

 Australia reported 23 new cases today....welcome to the club

[sayanne]

20 hours ago, luckyinpa said:

i havent read this thread but i dont wanna start another. 

 

is there a bonus or prize or money or gold bars or something if we use the word pandemic. i do not watch the news etc, just what i see on this forum or FB or a few minutes on the radio but people seem REALLY hung up on getting to use that word

 

so me, as an uninformed citizen, has determined that there has to be some kind of 'something' that is gonna happen when we reach this point. so what is it. does the world close down? do we all get meals delivered to our homes. what is it that makes this word something that so many are trying so hard to want to use? ive heard little tit for tats about arguing with the terms as well so it has to be SUPER critical

 

i await enlightenment. 

 

Your post is a bit flippant so I m not sure how serious. But we do have examples of what happens when something is acted on like a pandemic even if WHO doesn't want to use the word. Italy has reduced travel and all activities to nil and is in the process of figuring out how to get food etc to people. Gov Cuomo in NY has set up a one mile containment zone around New Rochelle, a clear hot spot. The National Guard is being deployed to bring in food etc as needed to households and all activities have been shut down. You may as well call it martial law. Locally we are not that extreme, but pretty much all the colleges have shut down in person classes for a month and along with prep schools have cancelled activities that involve a number of community members coming in. That has shut down one concert series and a town/gown orchestra in am involved in. I fully expect my other two such engagements to go away in the next couple of weeks. My stepmother's nursing home is on restricted access and I think just one more local case away from barring all visitors.

 

If it'll reduce the spread, I am fine with all of these measures.

[chipmaster]

16 hours ago, Charles4515 said:

After a vaccine has been developed and can be used, say that happens in a year or so, it still has to be produced in a factory somewhere and produced in volume. It could be three years. 

 

Tell me how effective to flu vaccine is or one for the common flu, I'd not plan a vaccine for a few years of any confidence.

[sayanne]

20 minutes ago, chipmaster said:

 

Tell me how effective to flu vaccine is or one for the common flu, I'd not plan a vaccine for a few years of any confidence.

 

The vaccine for common/seasonal flu has a built-in weakness, that the decision on what strains to protect against has to be made long enough ahead of time that a given year's mutations can turn well sideways from what the vaccine was intended to handle. COVID-19 is also a virus with proof already that it mutates, so the same vulnerability is built in.

 

That said, I have regularly gotten flu shots for several years now and am in constant contact with crowds because I play or sing in four different community orchestras or choruses. Where people who had been sitting next to me got knocked down by the flu. I haven't had but one bout that was actually flu in 7 years. And I am in my later 60's, so officially more vulnerable.

 

If one actual experience matters, the flu vaccine has been very effective.

 

That said, I am not interested in being an early tester for any vaccine they develop for coronavirus. Perfectly happy to let a few others try it first.

Edited March 11, 2020 by sayanne

[TYinPalmSprings]

Time to write your congressman/congresswoman. 

A large chunk of the cruising public are seniors, yet we are told by the US government NOT TO CRUISE, and if we dare to do that then we may be on our own. The cruise lines are still selling our cruise dates to destinations in the short term, yet, at the same time, say they will not let you board if you have been to, or through, those destinations they are sailing to/from or stopping at (or encountering people who have). Also we must remember that governments that have initiated a lockdown of their region or country (Italy for example). So, what if at your port stop, Rome, for instance, if you try to re-board and  they stop you? You're stuck. They may also not let you board if you look ill and you may not be able to get a flight out as flights have just been suspended.  This is a HUGE disconnect. We are now hearing from people stuck in countries that they cannot get out of due to this disconnect. Sure, some lines will let you take a credit for a limited time ,or implore you to a new book with promises you can use the CREDIT in the future for a limited amount of months...but only on the booked subsidiary, that is, you cannot use a Royal Caribbean branded cruise credit on their Celebrity or Azmara divisions.  For most, they will not return your money even for the cruises they do cancel. Then we have the cruises and airlines who are allowed to cancel or change their flights on the spot. The large market of us seniors have a dramatic impact on the business volume of these industries. The US president and vice president are meeting with the cruise line and airline execs to help THEM through this, but no one seems to be helping us. While we initially may be stuck and lose money spent on airfares, cruises, and related travel costs (like hotels) there could be relief for us if the Federal government, perhaps,  would introduce a Federal tax credit for the amount we have lost. If they can do it for gambling debt, they sure as heck should do this for us. It's time to write your congressman/congresswoman. If there is no relief, many seniors may refrain from chancing our money on cruising and rethink leisure travel.  That will have a rippling effect on the cruise and air industries, the economy as a whole, and the future of how we look at travel. 

[drsel]

It could lead to a worldwide recession, especially in the travel and Cruise industry

Edited March 11, 2020 by drsel

[Toofarfromthesea]

1 hour ago, TYinPalmSprings said:

Time to write your congressman/congresswoman. 

A large chunk of the cruising public are seniors, yet we are told by the US government NOT TO CRUISE, and if we dare to do that then we may be on our own. The cruise lines are still selling our cruise dates to destinations in the short term, yet, at the same time, say they will not let you board if you have been to, or through, those destinations they are sailing to/from or stopping at (or encountering people who have). Also we must remember that governments that have initiated a lockdown of their region or country (Italy for example). So, what if at your port stop, Rome, for instance, if you try to re-board and  they stop you? You're stuck. They may also not let you board if you look ill and you may not be able to get a flight out as flights have just been suspended.  This is a HUGE disconnect. We are now hearing from people stuck in countries that they cannot get out of due to this disconnect. Sure, some lines will let you take a credit for a limited time ,or implore you to a new book with promises you can use the CREDIT in the future for a limited amount of months...but only on the booked subsidiary, that is, you cannot use a Royal Caribbean branded cruise credit on their Celebrity or Azmara divisions.  For most, they will not return your money even for the cruises they do cancel. Then we have the cruises and airlines who are allowed to cancel or change their flights on the spot. The large market of us seniors have a dramatic impact on the business volume of these industries. The US president and vice president are meeting with the cruise line and airline execs to help THEM through this, but no one seems to be helping us. While we initially may be stuck and lose money spent on airfares, cruises, and related travel costs (like hotels) there could be relief for us if the Federal government, perhaps,  would introduce a Federal tax credit for the amount we have lost. If they can do it for gambling debt, they sure as heck should do this for us. It's time to write your congressman/congresswoman. If there is no relief, many seniors may refrain from chancing our money on cruising and rethink leisure travel.  That will have a rippling effect on the cruise and air industries, the economy as a whole, and the future of how we look at travel. 

 

Yes, by all means, with the vast array of needs faced by the government they should rush right out and give tax credits to affluent people because their vacation was ruined.

[drsel]

35 minutes ago, Toofarfromthesea said:

 

Yes, by all means, with the vast array of needs faced by the government they should rush right out and give tax credits to affluent people because their vacation was ruined.

Hahahaha

[c-boy]

" Yes, by all means, with the vast array of needs faced by the government they should rush right out and give tax credits to affluent people because their vacation was ruined."

 

 

[chipmaster]

3 hours ago, sayanne said:

 

The vaccine for common/seasonal flu has a built-in weakness, that the decision on what strains to protect against has to be made long enough ahead of time that a given year's mutations can turn well sideways from what the vaccine was intended to handle. COVID-19 is also a virus with proof already that it mutates, so the same vulnerability is built in.

 

That said, I have regularly gotten flu shots for several years now and am in constant contact with crowds because I play or sing in four different community orchestras or choruses. Where people who had been sitting next to me got knocked down by the flu. I haven't had but one bout that was actually flu in 7 years. And I am in my later 60's, so officially more vulnerable.

 

If one actual experience matters, the flu vaccine has been very effective.

 

That said, I am not interested in being an early tester for any vaccine they develop for coronavirus. Perfectly happy to let a few others try it first.

 

You can't really conclude you don't get it because of the flu vaccine or that you have a robust immune system.  I suggest you try the next few years w/o the vaccine and report back.

 

I agree vaccine is guess work, but then again they can mass produce for all strains, but why not?  The only saving grace for some virus is that they don't mutate, the flu does and hard to predict which one flares up each year. 

 

[sfaaa]

3 hours ago, drsel said:

It could lead to a worldwide recession, especially in the travel and Cruise industry

Already has. Cruise industry is now in full crisis with no way around it.

[sayanne]

1 hour ago, chipmaster said:

 

You can't really conclude you don't get it because of the flu vaccine or that you have a robust immune system.  I suggest you try the next few years w/o the vaccine and report back.

 

I agree vaccine is guess work, but then again they can mass produce for all strains, but why not?  The only saving grace for some virus is that they don't mutate, the flu does and hard to predict which one flares up each year. 

 

 I can conclude that. I was skipping years for a long while and got the flu every other year. Got the shot every year and had it once in 7 years. 

 

As to mass producing a serum to cover all strains, they can't. There are were four strains covered in the 2019 shot, H1N1, H3N2, Influenza A, and Influenza B. A as the one that comes back each season and has 16 subtypes. The subtypes are classified by the number of certain proteins that are attached to them: H, for hemagglutinin protein and N, for neuraminidase protein

Beyond that, the H and N subtypes contain different strains, which are referred to by number. The H subtype has 16 different strains. The N subtype has 9 different strains.

When the proteins on a specific virus are identified, you end up with names such as "H1N1" (one hemagglutinin, one neuraminidase) or "H3N2" (three hemagglutinin, two neuraminidase.)1 https://www.verywellhealth.com/learn-about-different-types-of-flu-770509

 

They can't put more than 4 strains worth of vaccine in the under-65 shot, or 3 strains worth in the over-65 shot, because that would represent too hard a hit on the person receiving the shot. This limits the strains they can cover in the over-65 shot to 3, because they make the doses stronger to generate more of an immune response. I am probably not the only person who noticed being tired for a couple of days after getting the senior shot. Which was never a reaction I had from the other.

 

Theoretically they could come up with multiple shots that, if you took them all, could cover every variation. But I doubt anyone could talk insurance into paying for it.

 

China is probably reliable here and there - they have verified a second strain of COVID-19 already. I am sure there are more to come.

Edited March 11, 2020 by sayanne

[sayanne]

BTW, I picked up my packet today. My travel agent was handling one of a two week long stream of incoming phone calls from someone wanting to cancel in a roughly SOL situation between for cause insurance and late cancellation penalties. Some of these folks are losing the money. She has not booked a new trip in nearly a month. Have to agree that much of the economic damage is already here.

[buggins0402]

I just saw a tweet that Italy is requiring all non essential businesses to close....can anyone confirm?

[sayanne]

Annnd more check-your-arrangements stuff. People often take a shuttle from the nearest airport to get to JFK, La Guardia or Newark. The shuttle service that my TA has used for years, and I have taken, this morning instituted a no refund policy. For years now they have refunded on 72 hours notice.

 

My TA called this service today to ask what conditions might cause their drivers to not pick up from international terminals at JFK. (And leave me stranded down there upon return.) The answer was a government order, details of what that meant terribly lacking. But it is unnerving since we already have a statewide state of emergency declared, a containment zone downstate being managed by the National Guard, and every indication that more of this will be happening before it is all over. I am going to book a second way of coming north and cross my fingers I can pull it off.

Edited March 11, 2020 by sayanne
Duplication of parts

[TYinPalmSprings]

5 hours ago, Toofarfromthesea said:

 

Yes, by all means, with the vast array of needs faced by the government they should rush right out and give tax credits to affluent people because their vacation was ruined.

Not all who cruise are affluent. Some may have saved their lives for this, some may be aged and have that last wish before they go, have a family member getting over a serious illness or family death, or have dreams of that cruise for a milestone birthday, or anniversary. It may have been a pinch for them to do their cruise, and may not be able to  try again. With your misconceptions that all who cruise are affluent, I can understand why you made the comment. The affluent only cruisers are a thing of the past, People burned by this may never consider this acceptable option for the future unless there is remedy. 

[davecttr]

2 hours ago, buggins0402 said:

I just saw a tweet that Italy is requiring all non essential businesses to close....can anyone confirm?

Apparently only food outlets and pharmacies can remain open, no bars etc. Home deliveries will be allowed. They should know within 2 weeks if this draconian measure has any positive effect.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-51845817