CoronaVirus Impact on the Cruise Industry

[ed01106]

12 minutes ago, Aquahound said:

 

Sherpas?

Yeah, that is a head scratcher.  It is not like being well adapted to high altitudes is all that beneficial at sea level.  

[Ava79]

1 hour ago, Charles4515 said:

Cruises are a leisure activity and not a necessity.

You can 't be more precise! I think this phrase could be displayed on the home page of this site or something like that. Because now putting yourself and others at additional risk is at least selfish. 

 

And with regards to most cruise companies... Now all organizations associated with the tertiary sector are suffering losses. As Charles Darwin said it"s not the strongest who survive, but those who can best adapt to the situation. I think this approach applies here as well

[Hlitner]

I am back on the theme of "why will ports reopen to cruise ships?"  The reality of the cruise industry is that they are at the mercy of ports.  This virus has tilted the thinking of most ports.  Sure, the ships do generate much of the funding to build and maintain port facilities, but the ugly truth is that cruise passengers are not huge contributors to the local or regional economy of many ports.  Venice, already mentioned, does not need cruise ships and would likely be better off without.  La Spezia has accelerated the charm destruction of Cinque Terre.  Dubrovnik does not need cruise ships and there is a growing chorus of voices wishing for their absence from that port.  Most major cities around the world also do not need cruise ships which simply add to overtourism without contributing much to the local economy.  When we stay in Paris for a week we spend money on accommodations,  dine at many restaurants, freely spend money at local cafes, museums, shops, etc.  A typical cruise passenger pays money to their tour provider, does some shopping, eats a typical tourist lunch, and adds to the local congestion.  When we stay in Florence we support local hotels, restaurants that are not even open for lunch, bars, etc.  

 

So here is the problem.  Now, cruise lines not only need to sell themselves to local governments, but will also need to overcome resistance from potential customers who now worry about being trapped on a floating prison, dealing with new onboard restrictions, having to comply with additional health forms, doctor appointments to get forms signed, etc.  It is close to a perfect storm designed to sink the industry that is now bleeding cash at an awful rate.  And they are also obligating themselves to huge accounts payable in terms of COVID-19 related FCCs.

 

The question for the cruise executive suites is how to overcome all the above!  A daunting task...indeed.

 

Hank

[cruisemom42]

38 minutes ago, ed01106 said:

Attention This is you captain speaking, today two of our passengers refused to use the hand washing station prior to entering the dining room, they were reminded of the requirements and steadfast refused.  They are currently confined to the ships brig and will be disembarked at our next port.  Just in case you were wondering we take your health and safety seriously.  Please follow the necessary protocols and enjoy your cruise.  

 

Nobody else will need to be told a second time.  After 9/11 I recall of one person deciding the rules of remaining seated for the last half hour of the flight didn’t apply to him.  Once the news of his arrest hit the news nobody wanted to test that a second time.  But this MUST be done at the first incident. 

 

I also recall a time right after the Costa Concordia incident when someone on a cruise ship decided they didn't need to attend the safety/muster drill. I can't remember if they wouldn't go at all or whether they were just not in a rush to get there, but they were immediately put off the ship before sailing.

 

Didn't hear of any others trying the same....at least, not for a long time after.

 

[sfaaa]

2 hours ago, Donald said:

The State of Alaska claims that over half of all visitors to that state do so via cruise ships, which results in around $2 Billion per year into the state economy.

Additionally, $33.3 million was attributed to several forms of direct payments from cruise lines: the Commercial Passenger Vessel Tax, the Large Passenger Vessel Gambling Tax, and the Commercial Passenger Vessel Environmental Compliance Program; plus an additional $17.8 million in dockage and moorage fees primarily from Juneau and Ketchikan.  

That looks rather significant to me.

Yes, cruise ship business is a big deal in Alaska since the economy pretty much shut down when winter rolls in.

[navybankerteacher]

1 hour ago, clo said:

NBT, you know I respect your opinions a lot. Do you think there will be countries that will wind up saying "forget it, we don't need this." Not the Caribbean but Western Europe, South America perhaps. ???

Long term (please do not ask for a definition of “long”) I think cruising will bounce back, and most target destinations will welcome the business.  I do hope that there will be some protective “rationing” — not so much on health grounds, but to preserve what an area has that makes people want to see it in the first place. Antarctica,  Venice certainly, Dubrovnik and Cinq Terre; probably  also Malta and some Aegean islands, among others, will cap the number of day-trippers (who now come largely by ship).

 

I’m not familiar with South America, but think ports like Rio and Burns’s Aires can probably handle huge numbers.  

[navybankerteacher]

1 hour ago, clo said:

NBT, you know I respect your opinions a lot. Do you think there will be countries that will wind up saying "forget it, we don't need this." Not the Caribbean but Western Europe, South America perhaps. ???

Long term (please do not ask for a definition of “long”) I think cruising will bounce back, and most target destinations will welcome the business.  I do hope that there will be some protective “rationing” — not so much on health grounds, but to preserve what an area has that makes people want to see it in the first place. Antarctica,  Venice certainly, Dubrovnik and Cinq Terre; probably  also Malta and some Aegean islands, among others, will cap the number of day-trippers (who now come largely by ship).

 

I’m not familiar with South America, but think ports like Rio and Buenos Aires can probably handle huge numbers.  

[navybankerteacher]

1 hour ago, clo said:

NBT, you know I respect your opinions a lot. Do you think there will be countries that will wind up saying "forget it, we don't need this." Not the Caribbean but Western Europe, South America perhaps. ???

Long term (please do not ask for a definition of “long”) I think cruising will bounce back, and most target destinations will welcome the business.  I do hope that there will be some protective “rationing” — not so much on health grounds, but to preserve what an area has that makes people want to see it in the first place. Antarctica,  Venice certainly, Dubrovnik and Cinq Terre; probably  also Malta and some Aegean islands, among others, will cap the number of day-trippers (who now come largely by ship).

 

I’m not familiar with South America, but think ports like Rio and Buenos Aires can probably handle huge numbers.  

[ed01106]

2 hours ago, Donald said:

The State of Alaska claims that over half of all visitors to that state do so via cruise 

Half of all visitors doesn’t mean half of all dollars.  Each cruise ship passenger contributes a small fraction of the fly in, book hotels, rent a car, eat at restaurant tourists.  Even RVs add more per person to the economy than a cruise passenger.  Some port communities will suffer, but the overall tourism industry is not cruise ship dependent.

[Cee_Jay]

ignorant question but given the above about cruise passenger income. What are the Docking fees and charges for say a 3,000 passenger ship? That must be a reasonable amount?

[Charles4515]

Half of all visitors doesn’t mean half of all dollars.  Each cruise ship passenger contributes a small fraction of the fly in, book hotels, rent a car, eat at restaurant tourists.  Even RVs add more per person to the economy than a cruise passenger.  Some port communities will suffer, but the overall tourism industry is not cruise ship dependent.

I noticed that most of the shops in Alaska ports were not local. They were the same businesses as in Caribbean ports and the workers seemed to have been brought in for the cruise season.


Sent from my iPhone using Forums

[Donald]

50 minutes ago, ed01106 said:

Half of all visitors doesn’t mean half of all dollars.  Each cruise ship passenger contributes a small fraction of the fly in, book hotels, rent a car, eat at restaurant tourists.  Even RVs add more per person to the economy than a cruise passenger.  Some port communities will suffer, but the overall tourism industry is not cruise ship dependent.

You are correct. It does not mean half - it means most. According to the Alaska Chamber of Commerce, the total for annual tourism dollars is $2.2 Billion; most of which is collected from cruise passengers and cruise lines.

When my 3,500 passenger ship calls at Juneau for one day, we leave behind around $1 Million dollars. That is the total for wharfage fees, berthing fees, head taxes, port taxes, union stevedore charges, port security charges, water bunkering, fuel bunkering, food and beverage provisioning, agent fees, crew spending, passenger spending, and tours. During most of the season, you can multiply those numbers by 6 more ships at the same time, nearly every day of the week.

Now how many RVs would you need parked in Juneau to generate $7 Million per day ??

Edited March 23, 2020 by Donald

[Philob]

2 hours ago, Aquahound said:

 

Sherpas?

 

Gurkas...caffeine not engaged when earlier post was written 😎 

[ilikeanswers]

Last year I read an article about Caribbean ports having trouble renegotiating contracts with cruise lines. Perhaps with this whole COVID 19 situation it might give ports more power in negotiating new contracts more favourable to the destination rather than the cruise line.

[clo]

5 hours ago, ilikeanswers said:

Last year I read an article about Caribbean ports having trouble renegotiating contracts with cruise lines. Perhaps with this whole COVID 19 situation it might give ports more power in negotiating new contracts more favourable to the destination rather than the cruise line.

Not picking on you but people SO often are mentioning the Caribbean. It's a really teeny tiny part of the world.  And the type of vacation that can be easily accomplished at an all-inclusive resort or a US beach. The rest of the world beckons. I sincerely don't get this focus on the Caribbean. And, yes, we've been there.

[ldubs]

12 minutes ago, clo said:

Not picking on you but people SO often are mentioning the Caribbean. It's a really teeny tiny part of the world.  And the type of vacation that can be easily accomplished at an all-inclusive resort or a US beach. The rest of the world beckons. I sincerely don't get this focus on the Caribbean. And, yes, we've been there.

 

I assume you mention Rio often because you enjoy visiting the place!  You would probably be shocked if I divulged that I would go to Rio to see two things.  The rest of the place has zero appeal which is why going there by cruise ship was perfect for us.   Different people have different likes/dislikes.  And yet, we can all coexist peacefully!  😄

 

 

[pacruise804]

I think the Caribbean (and Bahamas) are so often mentioned because so many mainstream cruises travel there.  It is also perceived as the cruise vacation many US families can afford.

 

I disagree that the vacations I have taken could easily be accomplished at an AI, and definitely not on a US beach.  While we enjoy some beach time, we also want to be on the ship and visit more than one place.  We also enjoy snorkeling - not sure how much I would see at inland lakes and beaches (although they can be nice spots to visit too) and Caribbean water is a bit warmer than the Presque Isle beaches where I grew up 😉 

 

 

[clo]

5 hours ago, ldubs said:

 

I assume you mention Rio often because you enjoy visiting the place!  You would probably be shocked if I divulged that I would go to Rio to see two things.  The rest of the place has zero appeal which is why going there by cruise ship was perfect for us.   Different people have different likes/dislikes.  And yet, we can all coexist peacefully!  😄

 

 

I mention it often because we used to own a condo there. We didn't enjoy "things" and if that's why one travels then, yeah, I get it. We travel to mingle with the locals, eat their foods, see what THEY do for entertainment and hopefully get to do it with them. We own a (teeny-tiny) condo in Seattle and after doing the obligatory tourist "things" we again are there for the same things as Rio. I'm on a food site and IIRC we've eaten at one of the 'hot spots' mentioned. More into the perfect chicken feet 🙂

 

But my point was that so many people invariably mention those islands rather than the whole world of traveling, cruising or land.

[Greg Sharma]

On 2/24/2020 at 12:14 PM, SeaPink0409 said:

I think it will still spread, but it won’t be as prevalent in the hot summer months, meaning it will go away, but will probably come back. Hoping a vaccine is discovered quickly! I have read several articles that basically state that the virus can’t live or survive in hot/humid climates.  I think the vast majority of people don’t realize that we could classify the flu as a pandemic, also. Not to take away the serious nature of this virus, because they are still trying to understand all of the in’s& outs of it, but if the vast majority of ppl are healthy, without any underlying issues, surviving and fully recovering from it isn’t a problem. I’ve read that some liken it to a bad cold.  We’ve all had those. 

Wow!  Liken to a bad cold.  Just wow. 

[chipmaster]

On 3/23/2020 at 9:44 AM, cruisemom42 said:

 

I also recall a time right after the Costa Concordia incident when someone on a cruise ship decided they didn't need to attend the safety/muster drill. I can't remember if they wouldn't go at all or whether they were just not in a rush to get there, but they were immediately put off the ship before sailing.

 

Didn't hear of any others trying the same....at least, not for a long time after.

 

 

This was a incident of a few people sailing a ship into the rocks.

 

This current situation is the interconnected globe and jamming a bunch of people all togather eating, sleeping, swapping germs in close quarters from all over the world is very different.

 

Cruising will never be the same again, like flying was never the same after 911

[ldubs]

41 minutes ago, clo said:

I mention it often because we used to own a condo there. We didn't enjoy "things" and if that's why one travels then, yeah, I get it. We travel to mingle with the locals, eat their foods, see what THEY do for entertainment and hopefully get to do it with them. We own a (teeny-tiny) condo in Seattle and after doing the obligatory tourist "things" we again are there for the same things as Rio. I'm on a food site and IIRC we've eaten at one of the 'hot spots' mentioned. More into the perfect chicken feet 🙂

 

But my point was that so many people invariably mention those islands rather than the whole world of traveling, cruising or land.

 

Oh my.  🤔  

[Lois R]

 Greg,I missed that post you just quoted......it goes back to Feb 25th.  Over a month ago.  As most folks now know,

this virus is NOTHING like a bad cold.  Actually I have a friend who is a Dr and he just treated his first patient

that has a case of it.  He told me it is NOTHING like a cold...…….it is BAD and I should stay home. (along with

everyone who can stay home.....STAY HOME)

 

[cruisemom42]

8 hours ago, clo said:

Not picking on you but people SO often are mentioning the Caribbean. It's a really teeny tiny part of the world.  And the type of vacation that can be easily accomplished at an all-inclusive resort or a US beach. The rest of the world beckons. I sincerely don't get this focus on the Caribbean. And, yes, we've been there.

 

It's a focus on these boards because it represents more than a third of the total cruise market (35%). See page 2 of this report:

 

https://www.f-cca.com/downloads/2018-Cruise-Industry-Overview-and-Statistics.pdf

 

If this was a general travel board I could see querying it. But for many, many cruisers, cruising ONLY means the Caribbean. 

 

[clo]

15 minutes ago, cruisemom42 said:

But for many, many cruisers, cruising ONLY means the Caribbean. 

Thanks for this. Just starting to watch all the news programs which will take three hours 😞 I wonder if it's the 'Murican  equivalent of Costa de Sol for Europeans? Exotic but safe and not too expensive.  Thanks again as always.

[ilikeanswers]

10 hours ago, clo said:

Not picking on you but people SO often are mentioning the Caribbean. It's a really teeny tiny part of the world.  And the type of vacation that can be easily accomplished at an all-inclusive resort or a US beach. The rest of the world beckons. I sincerely don't get this focus on the Caribbean. And, yes, we've been there.

 

I only mentiond the Caribbean as a point about negotions between ports and cruise lines and that the power has mostly been with the cruise line. This is most likely an issue for ports around the world but the article was from a Caribbean news site so their focus was on that area. I was just pointing out that with COVID 19 and all the problems that has come with it pertaining to cruising it might put some more power onto the ports so they can re negotiate better contracts.

 

As to your point you have to remember I am not American. The Caribbean is a hard to reach far away place from Australia so I would not have the same Caribbean weariness the average American cruiser might have. On top of that I do love Caribbean food and as a history buff I find the Caribbean's past offers such a unique an different view of the world.