Lifeboats...

[SRF]

On 3/10/2020 at 3:29 PM, chengkp75 said:

If you've ever been in a raft in an open seaway (I have), you would not even consider this, and the rafts are just as crowded as the boats.

 

The real answer is, you don't want to be on EITHER for real. 🙂

 

I have done a raft in training.  And it is not fun even with not too many people and for just a few hours.

[chengkp75]

15 minutes ago, SRF said:

 

The real answer is, you don't want to be on EITHER for real. 🙂

 

I have done a raft in training.  And it is not fun even with not too many people and for just a few hours.

My last raft training was offshore Halifax in March, with 6 foot seas running, for 4 hours.

[SRF]

Mine was many years ago in Biscayne Bay.

 

A few hours in each a large, multi person raft.  And an hour or two in a one man raft.

 

Also got paid to go parasailing. 😄

 

Not heavy seas, but sharks and barracuda. 😄

 

[Aquahound]

2 hours ago, chengkp75 said:

My last raft training was offshore Halifax in March, with 6 foot seas running, for 4 hours.

 

My last training was a lot like this:

 

Edited March 12, 2020 by Aquahound

[TravelinGert]

We got to see them take one of the life boats out on two of our cruises. Both were those yellow enclosed versions often referred to as yellow ducks. The crew definitely wrestles around a bit to git'er down. 

[chengkp75]

8 hours ago, Aquahound said:

 

My last training was a lot like this:

 

 

Yeah, Paul, and those suit manufacturers claim you stay warm and dry, too, don't they?

[Aplmac]

10 hours ago, Aquahound said:

My last training was a lot like this:

 

 

Geez that looks like it might have been fun!! -nooot!

 

What gets me is the utter contrast

between living in/on a floating gin palace (best week of your life)

and a critical Survival Situation -in the open ocean- in a hostile environment.

 

One minute you're cool - next minute you're reduced to...................

[sparks1093]

1 hour ago, chengkp75 said:

Yeah, Paul, and those suit manufacturers claim you stay warm and dry, too, don't they?

I've worn them a time or two and they did keep me warm and dry...until I had to get in the water.

[Cee_Jay]

All of you are making me regret ever having asked anything about life boats!

[chengkp75]

55 minutes ago, Cee_Jay said:

All of you are making me regret ever having asked anything about life boats!

Look at it this way.  If you're complaining about being in a lifeboat, at least you are alive to complain.

[ontheweb]

2 hours ago, chengkp75 said:

Look at it this way.  If you're complaining about being in a lifeboat, at least you are alive to complain.

However, if you are there because of actions like that of the Costa captain who is now in jail in Italy, maybe you do have cause to complain.

[SRF]

8 hours ago, chengkp75 said:

Yeah, Paul, and those suit manufacturers claim you stay warm and dry, too, don't they?

 

And they absolutely will not leak. 😄

 

[MBP&O2/O]

“Yes, the food and water is in watertight compartments under the seats.  Folks will have to crawl over each other or sit on each other to gain access to the compartments. ”

Has been known to be hypothetical 😀 

 

I joined a ship in a UK Drydock as 3/O,  and checked the lifeboats and all the rations, tools etc. were missing ... stolen by dockworkers!

Fortunately we found out in time and managed to replace then. As for my previous comments and photograph .. they ended up underwater 😀

 

[chengkp75]

18 minutes ago, MBP&O2/O said:

“Yes, the food and water is in watertight compartments under the seats.  Folks will have to crawl over each other or sit on each other to gain access to the compartments. ”

Has been known to be hypothetical 😀 

 

I joined a ship in a UK Drydock as 3/O,  and checked the lifeboats and all the rations, tools etc. were missing ... stolen by dockworkers!

Fortunately we found out in time and managed to replace then. As for my previous comments and photograph .. they ended up underwater 😀

 

We used to eat the "Chuckles" candy and the malted milk balls that were the expired rations, but now the "protein bars" are just plain nasty.

[rkacruiser]

I want to thank all of the experienced mariners who responded to my question and to this post with much appreciation.  It's added to my knowledge about what the roles of crew members are on a cruise ship.  It's added to my understanding of what to expect if the lifeboats/liferafts have to deployed on any ship on which I am sailing.  

 

If one reads any of the books about the experiences of those who were on Prinsendam 1 when she foundered in the Gulf of Alaska, the experiences that might be anticipated are not trivial issues if one finds oneself in such a situation.   

[Aquahound]

15 hours ago, chengkp75 said:

Yeah, Paul, and those suit manufacturers claim you stay warm and dry, too, don't they?

 

7 hours ago, SRF said:

 

And they absolutely will not leak. 😄

 

 

Every time, in the locker room afterwards, we were like.....

 

[chengkp75]

10 hours ago, rkacruiser said:

I want to thank all of the experienced mariners who responded to my question and to this post with much appreciation.  It's added to my knowledge about what the roles of crew members are on a cruise ship.  It's added to my understanding of what to expect if the lifeboats/liferafts have to deployed on any ship on which I am sailing.  

 

If one reads any of the books about the experiences of those who were on Prinsendam 1 when she foundered in the Gulf of Alaska, the experiences that might be anticipated are not trivial issues if one finds oneself in such a situation.   

Just to clarify a little further, since you mention learning about crew roles.  There are required to be two "certified" lifeboatmen (sorry ladies, the term has not been made gender neutral yet) for each lifeboat on the ship.  This "certification" requires a course of classroom instruction about lifeboats, and hands on training in lowering, maneuvering, and recovering actual lifeboats.  The latest international regulations (STCW) require that all deck and engine officers receive this certification, and some crew positions in the deck department as well.  However, these personnel trained in lifeboat operations will be nowhere near the boats (for the most part) when and if passengers are directed into the boats and sail away.  Their experience is required to remain onboard, directing the remainder of the crew to continue to deal with the emergency that lead to the passengers evacuating the ship.  So, as I mention, the crew assigned to the lifeboats will not be "certified" lifeboatmen, but will be crew who have received onboard training in driving and recovering the boats.  The only exception to this is NCL's Pride of America, where the USCG, realizing that the officers used to meet the number of lifeboatmen will not be used as lifeboatmen, require that the officer certificates not be used in the count of the required lifeboatmen, and that the certified lifeboatmen be actually assigned to man the boats.  So, the POA carries far more certified lifeboatmen (and these are volunteers from the cabin stewards, waiters, bartenders, and galley staff who volunteer to go to the two week course to get their certificate) than any other cruise ship.

 

Another thing that most cruisers don't realize is that the crew running the passenger muster at each location are not the ones who will be getting into the boats with them.  The boat crew are assigned duties along with professional deck crew to prepare and lower the boats to the embarkation (promenade) deck, and will then enter the boats and prep them, while the muster is ongoing under the muster crew.

[Kate P.C]

Lifeboats are super small when we compare the number of people they need to fit, especially heavy people 🙂 as most nowadays. The staff, usually stairway guides and muster personnel are going in the lifeboat with the passengers, while the rest of the crew go down the life rafts. For those who are not comfortable with tight space, it won't be any fun. You can check out the lifeboats when you are tendering, because you go to port with them.

[chengkp75]

4 minutes ago, Kate P.C said:

Lifeboats are super small when we compare the number of people they need to fit, especially heavy people 🙂 as most nowadays. The staff, usually stairway guides and muster personnel are going in the lifeboat with the passengers, while the rest of the crew go down the life rafts. For those who are not comfortable with tight space, it won't be any fun. You can check out the lifeboats when you are tendering, because you go to port with them.

No, the "staff, usually stairway guides and muster personnel" are not going in the lifeboats with the passengers.  What passengers think of as the signal to "abandon ship" (more than six short blasts on the horn and one prolonged blast) that sends them to their muster stations is not the signal for abandon ship.  It is the signal for "fire and general emergency", but since we need to get control and accountability of passengers, that is when they go to their muster stations.  The crew go to their "fire and general emergency" stations, which include the passenger muster personnel, the stairway guides, and those sent to clear all cabins.  Even if the Captain decides to have the passengers board the boats and evacuate the ship, that is still not "abandon ship".  When the passengers leave in the boats, there will only be the assigned boat crew in them (as noted before, 3 in most boats, but up to 16 in the largest boats).  The crew remain onboard at their emergency stations, until the Captain finally sounds the "abandon ship" signal, a single prolonged blast on the horn, which releases the crew from their emergency stations to their abandon ship stations, at the life rafts.

 

Lifeboat/tenders are very different than lifeboats, and when used for tendering have different capacities than when used for lifeboats.  When used for tender service, the boats typically have a capacity of 125, while the lifeboat capacity is 150.

[rkacruiser]

10 hours ago, chengkp75 said:

Another thing that most cruisers don't realize is that the crew running the passenger muster at each location are not the ones who will be getting into the boats with them.

 

WOW!  I certainly did not realize this!  So, during the Muster Drill, the crew member wearing the cap labeled Boat Commander is really not the "Boat Commander" and won't be with in the boat with me?

[chengkp75]

2 hours ago, rkacruiser said:

 

WOW!  I certainly did not realize this!  So, during the Muster Drill, the crew member wearing the cap labeled Boat Commander is really not the "Boat Commander" and won't be with in the boat with me?

They may be at the muster, but since they are not actually lowering the boats to the deck, they can do other tasks.  And, some lines do things differently, but generally the muster coordinators are not the boat crew.

 

What I mean is that during the crew drill, they would be assisting with the boats, while during the passenger drill, they will be assisting with the passengers, since the boats are not lowered.  In an emergency, the boat crew will be with the boats.  It also depends on how far in advance the muster is signaled, and where the muster station is in relation to the boats.  If the muster is called sufficiently ahead of time, the muster can be taken, and then the people doing the muster can assist in lowering the boats, but that is inefficient from what I've seen, and relies on an assumption that the Concordia proved wrong.

Edited March 13, 2020 by chengkp75

[Aplmac]

Many thanks as always

to chengkp75 for his realism and explanatory facts!

 

When he speaks, I listen -

it's the most Real Stuff we're going to get, in here.

 

Thank you, Cheng!

[rkacruiser]

23 hours ago, chengkp75 said:

They may be at the muster, but since they are not actually lowering the boats to the deck, they can do other tasks.  And, some lines do things differently, but generally the muster coordinators are not the boat crew.

 

What I mean is that during the crew drill, they would be assisting with the boats, while during the passenger drill, they will be assisting with the passengers, since the boats are not lowered.  In an emergency, the boat crew will be with the boats.  It also depends on how far in advance the muster is signaled, and where the muster station is in relation to the boats.  If the muster is called sufficiently ahead of time, the muster can be taken, and then the people doing the muster can assist in lowering the boats, but that is inefficient from what I've seen, and relies on an assumption that the Concordia proved wrong.

 

From a psychological perspective, if my Lifeboat Commander whom I see at Muster Drill is not the same person I see involved in me boarding and launching a lifeboat, that situation would not give me more confidence in a positive outcome of this event.  My thoughts might be for the lifeboat crew that I might meet when needed:  "I don't recognize these men/women.  What do they know? Where is my Lifeboat Commander?"

 

 

 

 

[chengkp75]

12 hours ago, rkacruiser said:

 

From a psychological perspective, if my Lifeboat Commander whom I see at Muster Drill is not the same person I see involved in me boarding and launching a lifeboat, that situation would not give me more confidence in a positive outcome of this event.  My thoughts might be for the lifeboat crew that I might meet when needed:  "I don't recognize these men/women.  What do they know? Where is my Lifeboat Commander?"

 

 

 

 

And if you recognized your "Lifeboat Commander" from the bar you frequent onboard, how would that shape your question, "What do they know?".

[4x4bob]

Since the topic is Lifeboats I have a question that I have thought about several times.

If a passenger shows up at the lifeboat with Fifi, the ankle snapper, in their arms, will Fifi be allowed to board?

If allowed to board, would Fifi be counted as one of the 150 passenger limit?

Or if passenger gets loud and nasty trying to assert their Rights, will they both be set aside to stop the blockage of loading?

Bob