Lifeboats...

[Cee_Jay]

Just picking up from a comment on another thread about muster.

Are all passengers and crew allocated a lifeboat? From the muster I assume so but does that mean all the inflate able rafts one sees around the deck(s) are "surplus" to the boats. Just wondering since the space allocation to passengers in lifeboats is minimal (given the hip measurements of many these days!) 

[ger_77]

Yes, all passengers and crew are allocated a lifeboat.  At muster drill, you are to meet at a certain spot and that is where your lifeboat will be.  Don't worry about the inflatable rafts - the passengers will be put into the sturdy craft, while crew will be assigned the inflatables if they are needed.  Yes, it will be crowded, but comfort isn't #1 priority when they're trying to get thousands of passengers off a disabled ship.

 

Smooth Sailing!  🙂🙂🙂

[Zach1213]

43 minutes ago, ger_77 said:

At muster drill, you are to meet at a certain spot and that is where your lifeboat will be.

 

This isn't necessarily true. Muster spots are just where you're supposed to gather in an emergency. It may or may not be next to the lifeboats. I've been in a muster drill where we were inside a bar/venue/lounge at the front of the boat. Now, I assume our actual lifeboats were nearby, but they never actually took us to them. Other cases, yes, our lined up right next to lifeboats. 

[ger_77]

1 minute ago, Zach1213 said:

 

This isn't necessarily true. Muster spots are just where you're supposed to gather in an emergency. It may or may not be next to the lifeboats. I've been in a muster drill where we were inside a bar/venue/lounge at the front of the boat. Now, I assume our actual lifeboats were nearby, but they never actually took us to them. Other cases, yes, our lined up right next to lifeboats. 

You are correct - on most ships in the past, we showed up at our lifeboat spot on deck; now many ships are having drills indoors, and suggest people take note of where their assigned lifeboats are in the event of an emergency.

 

Smooth Sailing!  🙂🙂🙂

[sparks1093]

The inflatable rafts are there as a back up in case the lifeboats aren't available for whatever reason, so it's possible that passengers may have to use them, also.

[chengkp75]

Ah, no.  Passengers and a couple of crew (2-3 for "normal" 150 man boats, 16 for the 370 man mega-boats) are assigned to the lifeboats.  Crew, with the exception of the ones assigned to man the lifeboats, are assigned to the rafts.  The combination of the capacity of all lifeboats must equal 75% of all souls onboard.  The combined capacity of all lifeboats and life rafts must equal 125% of all souls onboard.  Some ships use the MES (marine evacuation system) for excess passengers, this is a system where a group of rafts are launched together, an inflatable slide is deployed to get you down to the raft, and as each raft is filled, it is turned loose.  Some ships use MES as a major part of crew lifesaving equipment as well.

 

As for being assigned to a boat, yes, once muster is taken, whether on deck or in an indoor muster station, when the decision to board the boats is made (and this is not the signal for abandon ship), if the muster station is at the boats, all those assigned will board the boat.  If the muster station is indoors, most of these are large muster stations, so they will cull out the capacity of a boat, and lead them to the boat, then cull out another load, etc.  Crew are assigned to abandon ship stations, once the passengers are all away and the abandon ship signal is given (releasing them from their fire & emergency station), but each crew muster station will have several rafts assigned to it, and the raft will be filled to capacity and then lowered, regardless of who is loaded.

 

Boats will be filled to capacity if at all humanly possible.  This typically involves alternate passengers leaning forward or leaning back to get the shoulders to fit.  When I was at NCL, we always had a boat at the rail during passenger muster drill, so that afterwards anyone interested could walk by, look in, and ask questions.  There will be a black spot where each butt is supposed to be.

[ontheweb]

2 hours ago, ger_77 said:

You are correct - on most ships in the past, we showed up at our lifeboat spot on deck; now many ships are having drills indoors, and suggest people take note of where their assigned lifeboats are in the event of an emergency.

 

Smooth Sailing!  🙂🙂🙂

We had one sailing where the drill was indoors, but at the end we were led to where the lifeboat for us would be.

[Capt_BJ]

When OASIS was being designed it was determined that there simply was not enuf 'length' to hang the required number of standard 150 person lifeboats. SOLAS did have provision for larger boats 'if approved'. A new 370 person lifeboat was developed and approved but it required a new loading system as well.  FOUR different muster stations - usually INSIDE - feed ONE lifeboat.  If ever on an OASIS or other ship with this new system, you can usually walk the lifeboa area and see the 4 doors line up to loading hatches and the 'sitting spots' are color coded. There is NO WHERE near sufficient standing room alongside the boats ... the doors from muster stations pretty much open directly to the loading port.

 

additional information at https://www.rina.org.uk/mega-lifeboat.html

 

The seating is arranged in two levels designed to reduce the time taken to board all the people into the lifeboat. The main cabin deck will seat 280 people in longitudinal benches and the upper seating area will seat 80 persons in longitudinal benches and another 10 in the large steering tower near the helmsman’s position. The lifeboat also has an onboard toilet and two stretchers stored in the wheelhouse.

 

The lifeboats are stowed and launched from a specially designed davit systems, which allows them to be lowered directly into the water from their stowed position rather than having to first swing out the davit and lifeboat before launch.

Edited March 10, 2020 by Capt_BJ

[ontheweb]

9 minutes ago, Capt_BJ said:

When OASIS was being designed it was determined that there simply was not enuf 'length' to hang the required number of standard 150 person lifeboats. SOLAS did have provision for larger boats 'if approved'. A new 370 person lifeboat was developed and approved but it required a new loading system as well.  FOUR different muster stations - usually INSIDE - feed ONE lifeboat.  If ever on an OASIS or other ship with this new system, you can usually walk the lifeboa area and see the 4 doors line up to loading hatches and the 'sitting spots' are color coded. There is NO WHERE near sufficient standing room alongside the boats ... the doors from muster stations pretty much open directly to the loading port.

 

additional information at https://www.rina.org.uk/mega-lifeboat.html

 

The seating is arranged in two levels designed to reduce the time taken to board all the people into the lifeboat. The main cabin deck will seat 280 people in longitudinal benches and the upper seating area will seat 80 persons in longitudinal benches and another 10 in the large steering tower near the helmsman’s position. The lifeboat also has an onboard toilet and two stretchers stored in the wheelhouse.

 

The lifeboats are stowed and launched from a specially designed davit systems, which allows them to be lowered directly into the water from their stowed position rather than having to first swing out the davit and lifeboat before launch.

Sounds like just another reason not to sail on the newer mega ships, the Behemoths of the Seas

[chengkp75]

3 minutes ago, ontheweb said:

Sounds like just another reason not to sail on the newer mega ships, the Behemoths of the Seas

Here's a photo of a loaded 150 man boat:

 

 

And, note, this is crew, so significantly smaller than most passengers.  No lifeboat cruise is going to be enjoyable, whether it is with 149 others or 369 others.  The larger boats do have a larger percentage of crew assigned (2-3 for the 150 man boat, 16 for the 370 man boat).

[leaveitallbehind]

52 minutes ago, chengkp75 said:

Here's a photo of a loaded 150 man boat:

 

 

And, note, this is crew, so significantly smaller than most passengers.  No lifeboat cruise is going to be enjoyable, whether it is with 149 others or 369 others.  The larger boats do have a larger percentage of crew assigned (2-3 for the 150 man boat, 16 for the 370 man boat).

It seems in terms of a crowded space in a lifeboat, size doesn't matter.  The relative lifeboat passenger to space ratio is no better on a smaller ship than the mega ships.  So I guess whether it is 149 or 369 per lifeboat, creature comfort is not a factor and one will fair no better on one ship over another.

Edited March 10, 2020 by leaveitallbehind

[navybankerteacher]

2 hours ago, ontheweb said:

Sounds like just another reason not to sail on the newer mega ships, the Behemoths of the Seas

One of many — when you realize that in an abandon ship emergency you would logically prefer to skip the lifeboat boarding and go for a slot on an inflatable raft.

[chengkp75]

34 minutes ago, navybankerteacher said:

One of many — when you realize that in an abandon ship emergency you would logically prefer to skip the lifeboat boarding and go for a slot on an inflatable raft.

If you've ever been in a raft in an open seaway (I have), you would not even consider this, and the rafts are just as crowded as the boats.

[bbwex]

To navybankerteacher and chengkp75: are we glad we never had to board the rafts way out to sea!

 

To chengkp75, where are you in Maine when you are there.  We are on our way to Kennebunkport in a few days, and will be back there all summer.

[RocketMan275]

Space may not be the biggest discomfort.  Imagine that inside of those lifeboats once a couple of people get seasick...

[chengkp75]

9 minutes ago, bbwex said:

To navybankerteacher and chengkp75: are we glad we never had to board the rafts way out to sea!

 

To chengkp75, where are you in Maine when you are there.  We are on our way to Kennebunkport in a few days, and will be back there all summer.

We live in Portland, just finished our new lake house in Sebago, currently sitting in fog off Corpus Christi.

[chengkp75]

3 minutes ago, RocketMan275 said:

Space may not be the biggest discomfort.  Imagine that inside of those lifeboats once a couple of people get seasick...

Like I said, that's what the bilge pump is for, though it will likely cover someone else before it hits the bilge.

[RocketMan275]

1 hour ago, chengkp75 said:

Like I said, that's what the bilge pump is for, though it will likely cover someone else before it hits the bilge.

Not really concerned about the clean up.  What will be bad is the aroma.  Once one barfs, it will set off a chain reaction.

[rkacruiser]

3 hours ago, RocketMan275 said:

Space may not be the biggest discomfort.  Imagine that inside of those lifeboats once a couple of people get seasick...

 

Or need to urinate or defecate.  

 

When HAL lost Prinsendam I many years ago in the Gulf of Alaska, there have been several stories about what the passengers experienced during their hours in the lifeboats.  Recall no reading about the necessary needs of personal excretion by the passengers.  Or, even of seasickess.  Given the sea state at that time when the lifeboats were launched, surely, there must have been some ill guests.

 

It's been my impression that the life rafts are for crew and not passengers unless needed.

 

On those ships that have been fitted with the "shute system" of boarding life rafts:  I have become unsure of my thinking.  

[leaveitallbehind]

32 minutes ago, rkacruiser said:

 

It's been my impression that the life rafts are for crew and not passengers unless needed.

 

On those ships that have been fitted with the "shute system" of boarding life rafts:  I have become unsure of my thinking.  

 

You are correct. Just FYI for clarification for others, from chengkp75's post #6 on this thread:

 

Passengers and a couple of crew (2-3 for "normal" 150 man boats, 16 for the 370 man mega-boats) are assigned to the lifeboats.  Crew, with the exception of the ones assigned to man the lifeboats, are assigned to the rafts.  The combination of the capacity of all lifeboats must equal 75% of all souls onboard.  The combined capacity of all lifeboats and life rafts must equal 125% of all souls onboard.  Some ships use the MES (marine evacuation system) for excess passengers, this is a system where a group of rafts are launched together, an inflatable slide is deployed to get you down to the raft, and as each raft is filled, it is turned loose.  Some ships use MES as a major part of crew lifesaving equipment as well.

[MBP&O2/O]

The ship I was on that sank ...we used the older style open top 40 seater lifeboat ...

At the time we were in rough seas and F7 winds so when the lifeboat shipped a green one and was total swamped to the gunwales it certainly made life interesting ... especially as we had no power! 

 

 

[chengkp75]

31 minutes ago, MBP&O2/O said:

The ship I was on that sank ...we used the older style open top 40 seater lifeboat ...

At the time we were in rough seas and F7 winds so when the lifeboat shipped a green one and was total swamped to the gunwales it certainly made life interesting ... especially as we had no power! 

 

 

 

Sure you had power.  We called it "ash breeze" for the wooden oars.

[MBP&O2/O]

I wish 🥴

We were trying to come alongside a rescue ship ... well a T2 tanker ... and we shipped her bow wave  as we slid down a rather large wave 😀 and we ended up with zero freeboard. Occupational hazard 🤬

 

 

 

[rkacruiser]

On 3/10/2020 at 10:51 AM, chengkp75 said:

a couple of crew (2-3 for "normal" 150 man boats, 16 for the 370 man mega-boats) are assigned to the lifeboats. 

 

Just curious:  For a 150 man boat, what are the assigned duties for the crew?  One would be the "driver", I know, but what are the duties of the other two crew members other than helping the passengers aboard and getting them seated?  Where will the crew members sit--or will they?  What rank do these crew members usually have? 

 

Same questions apply for the larger lifeboats as well.

 

I know that the lifeboats have emergency rations/water.  I assume these are in compartments under the seats.  If the boat is filled to capacity with little, if any, room to move or stand, how can these compartments be accessed?

[chengkp75]

14 minutes ago, rkacruiser said:

 

Just curious:  For a 150 man boat, what are the assigned duties for the crew?  One would be the "driver", I know, but what are the duties of the other two crew members other than helping the passengers aboard and getting them seated?  Where will the crew members sit--or will they?  What rank do these crew members usually have? 

 

Same questions apply for the larger lifeboats as well.

 

I know that the lifeboats have emergency rations/water.  I assume these are in compartments under the seats.  If the boat is filled to capacity with little, if any, room to move or stand, how can these compartments be accessed?

For the 150 man boats, one crew is the coxswain (driver) and the other two are for seating passengers and clearing the boat away from the falls (the hoisting wires), which is difficult, as they have to lean out of small windows and wrestle 200 lb steel pulleys out of the way.  They have seats, as they are counted as part of the 150 man capacity.  The boat crews are typically not mariners, but are cabin stewards, bartenders, dishwashers, etc, that have had onboard training in handling the boat.

 

For the larger boats, I have no idea what 16 crew are supposed to do, except keep 354 passengers under control.

 

Yes, the food and water is in watertight compartments under the seats.  Folks will have to crawl over each other or sit on each other to gain access to the compartments.  It ain't pretty.  The boats have emergency rations of 2400 calories per person (2/3 of the average US consumption of calories), and 3 liters of water (slightly less than a gallon) per person.  That is not per day, that is total.