Limit for credit card disputes?

[Biker19]

3 minutes ago, Jonbiloh said:

GAAP does not require RCCL in this case to realize the the impact of the refund until the refund is processed, hence the slowness.

So, the refunds will speed up starting today because it's a new financial quarter? I kinda doubt it.

[steveru621]

It likely to be a lot longer.

 

Florida Gov. Ron DeSantis (R) mandated a 30-day stay-at-home order for the state Wednesday, requiring that its nearly 21 million residents stay indoors unless they are pursuing essential services or activities. His executive order will take effect midnight Thursday.

[firefly333]

1 hour ago, steveru621 said:

 

 

All I can tell you is my EFT dispute department would not use any of those.

I can also say that amex let go all the american dispute workers. It's been outsourced now to India and another place. 

 

Yes, I'm betting customer service isnt what it used to be. My friend who stayed to the bitter end said she got a nice severance pkg but felt bad for the younger people. 

 

I just took the job for health benefits tbh. I was there when they started outsourcing and could see india did as little as possible. You might initially talk to a american if you are lucky but the dispute like most of usa meds is done in another country these days. 

[ARandomTraveler]

3 hours ago, Strongbox said:

Royal cancelled my cruise on 12th March. I then cancelled the drinks packages and tours. Got the email about the packages but nothing received yet for either.

I haven’t received my money back yet either but only cancelled mine last week. 

[Judyrem]

3 hours ago, MNelson486 said:

The bigger issue for me is that I cancelled but have received 0 communication from RC.  Something that says -- hey you cancelled we are processing your refund and it will be within 30 days -- that would be nice!

Same with me.

[Judyrem]

2 hours ago, firefly333 said:

I can also say that amex let go all the american dispute workers. It's been outsourced now to India and another place. 

 

Yes, I'm betting customer service isnt what it used to be. My friend who stayed to the bitter end said she got a nice severance pkg but felt bad for the younger people. 

 

I just took the job for health benefits tbh. I was there when they started outsourcing and could see india did as little as possible. You might initially talk to a american if you are lucky but the dispute like most of usa meds is done in another country these days. 

Very true.  The other day  I spoke to a rep who definitely had an accent that was very difficult to understand.  A few times I had him repeat his answers and it was very frustrating.

 

[Snit13]

3 hours ago, steveru621 said:

It likely to be a lot longer.

 

Florida Gov. Ron DeSantis (R) mandated a 30-day stay-at-home order for the state Wednesday, requiring that its nearly 21 million residents stay indoors unless they are pursuing essential services or activities. His executive order will take effect midnight Thursday.

I have been staying at home unless I need something from Publix for about 3 weeks.  Getting a lot of tasks completed that I never got around to as I was busy living life.  Bought groceries for the month of April this morning so I am ok and hope everyone follows the orders so we can get rid of this virus and get back to cruising.  Seems the more people ignore the advice of the doctors and medical experts the more people catch the virus and die.  One would hope people would wake up and fight to live on.

[CannyScotToo]

Cancelled my cruise on March 13. I had booked three cabins with drinks and dining packages. I immediately received an email re the dining packages but not the drinks. I had asked to speak to a supervisor as they were claiming they would retain a cancellation charge on each booking. 

On March 19 I got the following refunds, the cruise for my cabin, my drinks package, the dining package for all cabins and the cancellation charge on all cabins.

i have made several phone calls and the annoying thing is you get put through to Indians working from home on VOIP phones that are so bad you cannot understand them. One even told me they couldn’t access the account as it wasn’t my name. They also did not recognize the reference numbers given for the cancellation.

There is no doubt I can go the credit card route as the service has not been provided.

We had actually tried to just change our dates to 2021 with the same ship, cabins and timeframe but they wanted 33% more despite oil having collapsed in price.

i think the end result is that the cruise lines will rue this and have an extremely difficult time bouncing back. It has certainly turned us into non cruisers. I will go somewhere where my business is appreciated.

Edited April 2, 2020 by CannyScotToo
Extra word

[gerig]

6 hours ago, Jonbiloh said:

The reality of the 30 day time frame is Royal Caribbean is delaying refunds to benefit its cash flow. No other reasons.

 

Refund processing at sophisticated companies like Royal Caribbean is an entirely automated thing. I know they are blaming "finance/accounting department delays" for the extra time but that is just a cheap line given to the front line customer service reps to recite to angry customers who are waiting weeks for refunds on cruises canceled by RCCL. 

 

I really don't like seeing situations where a company is using its customers as a bank when it has no intention on providing the service (because the cruise is canceled).

 

If cash flow is that tight at royal they need to return to the bond and equity markets + suspend dividend and cut executive pay, followed by managerial and HQ staff. I know we all love cruising (I've been on dozens) but let us not forget that this is a transactional business, we owe RCCL nothing. Further more RCCL has not ever paid a dime in Federal taxes because of its ability to operate in the grey with their foreign corporations all the while fleecing the American consumer and being head quartered in the US. Bad karma!  

 

And lastly, to the folks who say "what's the rush, you can't earn money in a savings account anyways" if we ignore the time value of money and simply consider the opportunities in the equity market (generational buying opportunity) or what's available in the CD or online savings account market - https://www.marcus.com/us/en (1.7% savings account underwritten by Goldman Sachs)  - you may have a different opinion once you are more aware of your options. Some may be eager to give RCCL an interest free loan but that's not me and it shouldn't be you either. 

Well said and I totally agree that is exactly what they are doing.  ADP makes more money (interest) on the float of customer's funds for a couple of days than their payroll service.

 

[justKirbo]

I canceled a cruise on March 16th and I think the refund hit our credit card on March 23rd. But the cruise that I canceled isn't until next year and I had made the reservation through our TA (best TA in the world) and they were the ones that contacted RCI. Not sure if we got ours in a week because it was a far out cruise or not, but they clearly were able to do the refund far quicker than most of you are seeing.

And for folks who don't think it's a big deal and to just sit tight, many of us aren't working right now and having that cash in hand is a huge deal.

[JoelinSedona]

I cancelled 2 cruise planner purchases before cancelling the cruise itself 2 hours later on March 13th.  Was told by the customer service rep it would be 2 weeks for the refunds to hit my card.  Still nothing and they are not responding to my emails.  I had planned to rebook another cruise as soon as my refunds hit but this is leaving a bad taste in my mouth. Really seems like they are using some of us like a bank. Going to start a chargeback next week if nothing shows up.

[BirdTravels]

4 minutes ago, JoelinSedona said:

I cancelled 2 cruise planner purchases before cancelling the cruise itself 2 hours later on March 13th.  Was told by the customer service rep it would be 2 weeks for the refunds to hit my card.  Still nothing and they are not responding to my emails.  I had planned to rebook another cruise as soon as my refunds hit but this is leaving a bad taste in my mouth. Really seems like they are using some of us like a bank. Going to start a chargeback next week if nothing shows up.

Call vs. emailing. They have 100's of thousands of emails backed up and may actually see your message this time next year. With the 100's of thousands of cancellations, I would not be surprised if it took [a lot] longer to process refunds. 

[JoelinSedona]

I did call after I made the cancellations online.  That's when the rep said it would be 2 weeks for the refunds. I followed up by email at the 2 week mark but haven't gotten a response.

[reallyitsmema]

I cancelled our cruise and cruise planner purchases on March 10th and finally received four refunds overnight for all of our cruise planner purchases.  No refund of cruise fare yet, but this is progress at least.

[MaryEBS]

On 3/31/2020 at 6:35 PM, firefly333 said:

Actually I worked in florida for amex disputes.

 

Me too!  Thirty Eight years in Plantation in the Credit Department.

[firefly333]

5 minutes ago, MaryEBS said:

 

Me too!  Thirty Eight years in Plantation in the Credit Department.

Wow great to meet you. I was in plantation too of course.

 

I was there when they cut health benefits when you retired for anyone with less than what was it 40 years in and some has just almost that many who worked since teens. For me that was it. I was there for the health benefits, not the pay. They underpaid us imo. No retirement health benefits, no point for me to stick it out. All about profits, not keeping happy carmembers.

 

I was truly shocked when they let go all the quality people, the best of the best, who made more $ because they had worked there more years. 

[MaryEBS]

13 minutes ago, firefly333 said:

Wow great to meet you. I was in plantation too of course.

 

I was there when they cut health benefits when you retired for anyone with less than what was it 40 years in and some has just almost that many who worked since teens. For me that was it. I was there for the health benefits, not the pay. They underpaid us imo. No retirement health benefits, no point for me to stick it out. All about profits, not keeping happy carmembers.

 

I was truly shocked when they let go all the quality people, the best of the best, who made more $ because they had worked there more years. 

Wow, your experience was very different than mine.  I am retired with health insurance and my Amex Pension.  I was well compensated to work there!

[firefly333]

23 minutes ago, MaryEBS said:

Wow, your experience was very different than mine.  I am retired with health insurance and my Amex Pension.  I was well compensated to work there!

We had to be idk age 40 or 50 and have 40 years in. Quite a few just missed it.

 

If you are going to let people go, letting go the best instead of the worst, it was all about the dollar. We could see what bad jobs the india reps did. If we mentioned it we kept being told it's a learning curve they would get better for a year or two until even the managers gave up defending the much poorer job Indian workers did, but they could pay them $3 or $4 a hour to do a poor job vs us. 

 

I did enjoy the disputes until we had to do more phone work tbh. I enjoyed helping people.

 

I'm glad you retired with a good pension. I'm a saver and am fine .. just liked the work. 

[MaryEBS]

3 hours ago, firefly333 said:

We had to be idk age 40 or 50 and have 40 years in. Quite a few just missed it.

 

If you are going to let people go, letting go the best instead of the worst, it was all about the dollar. We could see what bad jobs the india reps did. If we mentioned it we kept being told it's a learning curve they would get better for a year or two until even the managers gave up defending the much poorer job Indian workers did, but they could pay them $3 or $4 a hour to do a poor job vs us. 

 

I did enjoy the disputes until we had to do more phone work tbh. I enjoyed helping people.

 

I'm glad you retired with a good pension. I'm a saver and am fine .. just liked the work. 

I guess we had different experiences...for me Amex was like family.  While I agree many lost their jobs, the company tended to release the older workers in favor of the newer less expensive, it was not who did a better job.

[gerig]

On 3/31/2020 at 6:15 PM, Snit13 said:

As Ken posted, the information sent from Royal for my cancelled cruise clearly states it may take up to 30 days.  They refunded the vacation protection and dining packages within a few days.  I am having difficulty understanding why so many posters are in such a hurry for their refunds.  If banks were paying high interest rates it would make sense to want my money back now.  You can't even earn 10 cents on $10,000 from any bank I know of.  Relax and enjoy your life and be thankful you don't have the virus.

Did you know that more than 10M people just went on unemployment and these people now need this refund.

[Jonbiloh]

1 hour ago, gerig said:

Did you know that more than 10M people just went on unemployment and these people now need this refund.

 

Plus, despite the previous posters remark that "If banks were paying high interest rates it would make sense to want my money back now." you can actually make plenty of money at numerous FDIC insured online banks. Including Goldman Sach's consumer bank, Marcus, which is paying close to 2% right now. 

[ARandomTraveler]

5 minutes ago, Jonbiloh said:

 

Plus, despite the previous posters remark that "If banks were paying high interest rates it would make sense to want my money back now." you can actually make plenty of money at numerous FDIC insured online banks. Including Goldman Sach's consumer bank, Marcus, which is paying close to 2% right now. 

People wouldn’t be making any interest on this money if they were still planning to take their cruise. 
 

If you pay a deposit a year in advance, you aren’t making any interest on the money, but the cruiseline is. Now that people want their money back, they’re making a big fuss about how much interest they’re losing, or the fact that Royal Caribbean is making interest on their money...they were already doing that, and would have continued to do that for the next year until the cruise sailed. 

Edited April 3, 2020 by ARandomTraveler

[Jonbiloh]

4 minutes ago, ARandomTraveler said:

People wouldn’t be making any interest on this money if they were still planning to take their cruise. 
 

If you pay a deposit a year in advance, you aren’t making any interest on the money, but the cruiseline is. Now that people want their money back, they’re making a big fuss about how much interest they’re losing, or the fact that Royal Caribbean is making interest on their money...they were already doing that, and would have continued to do that for the next year until the cruise sailed. 

 

Your entire preface is flawed. We are not talking about deposit level money. I am referring to cases where Royal has canceled cruises that were paid in full. If the service is not going to be provided there is zero practical or commercial reason to delay the refund, period. The reason they are taking 30 days (or business days, aka 6 weeks) to process refunds is to benefit from the float provided by the free loans from their customers. That is unethical and bad business practice considering there is no possibility of the company providing the promised service (because they have canceled the cruises). 

 

RCCL should be absolutely ashamed for how they are handling the refund process here. It's inexcusable that they are relying on the ignorance or complicity of customers in their reliance on slow-paying the refunds to minimize the immediate term impact on their industrial free cash flow. All the while they've not suspending their dividend or cutting executive pay. Deplorable. 

[ARandomTraveler]

10 minutes ago, Jonbiloh said:

 

Your entire preface is flawed. We are not talking about deposit level money. I am referring to cases where Royal has canceled cruises that were paid in full. If the service is not going to be provided there is zero practical or commercial reason to delay the refund, period. The reason they are taking 30 days (or business days, aka 6 weeks) to process refunds is to benefit from the float provided by the free loans from their customers. That is unethical and bad business practice considering there is no possibility of the company providing the promised service (because they have canceled the cruises). 

 

RCCL should be absolutely ashamed for how they are handling the refund process here. It's inexcusable that they are relying on the ignorance or complicity of customers in their reliance on slow-paying the refunds to minimize the immediate term impact on their industrial free cash flow. All the while they've not suspending their dividend or cutting executive pay. Deplorable. 

You make a good point. I don’t know what the rules are for how quickly a refund is required to take place. I wonder if there is one. My guess is that there is a rule, and royal Caribbean knows what it is, and that they’re returning money as slowly as allowed. If not, there’ll be a big class action law suit and everyone will be happy. As with many laws, they don’t always end up making sense or being fair, but the law rules over ethics. 
 

If someone doesn’t have enough cash in the bank to sustain them for at least a few months in the event of a job loss, why are they risking that money by spending it on a vacation? I get it that people have lost their jobs and expected to have income they no longer have, but if you don’t have enough money in the bank to cover your bills for 90 days until you get your refund, you probably shouldn’t have booked this trip in the first place.

Edited April 3, 2020 by ARandomTraveler

[JoelinSedona]

2 hours ago, ARandomTraveler said:

You make a good point. I don’t know what the rules are for how quickly a refund is required to take place. I wonder if there is one. My guess is that there is a rule, and royal Caribbean knows what it is, and that they’re returning money as slowly as allowed. If not, there’ll be a big class action law suit and everyone will be happy. As with many laws, they don’t always end up making sense or being fair, but the law rules over ethics. 
 

If someone doesn’t have enough cash in the bank to sustain them for at least a few months in the event of a job loss, why are they risking that money by spending it on a vacation? I get it that people have lost their jobs and expected to have income they no longer have, but if you don’t have enough money in the bank to cover your bills for 90 days until you get your refund, you probably shouldn’t have booked this trip in the first place.

Why should I have to provide Royal with an interest free loan for 90 days?