It's even worse than we thought

[Thrak]

3 hours ago, PrincessLuver said:

 

Princess is the only travel company that we have had a problem in getting a significant refund returned from......hotels, airlines, private excursion companies no problem.....but Princess who supposedly values people's loyalty is showing just how little they really value being loyal back and doing what is right for thousands of their cruise guests......it is really turning into a ripoff....they started with 30 days and then went to 60 days and you can bet it is going to go to 90 days and continue on to probably never......so funny that some people sing the praises of Princess for doing nothing......I guess they have no problem with people lying to them.....

 

You really need to change your name...

 

3 hours ago, npcl said:

Yes I am in the same situation.  Private tour company in England - refunded in 14 days. Several different airlines - all prompt. Hotels - no problem immediate on line.

 

Princess - still waiting.

 

Hotel and tour company: Refunding 50 - 200 guests. Easy

Princess: Refunding many thousands of guests: Difficult

[fishin' musician]

6 minutes ago, Thrak said:

3 hours ago, PrincessLuver said:

 

3 hours ago, PrincessLuver said:

Princess is the only travel company that we have had a problem in getting a significant refund returned from......hotels, airlines, private excursion companies no problem.....but Princess who supposedly values people's loyalty is showing just how little they really value being loyal back and doing what is right for thousands of their cruise guests......it is really turning into a ripoff....they started with 30 days and then went to 60 days and you can bet it is going to go to 90 days and continue on to probably never......so funny that some people sing the praises of Princess for doing nothing......I guess they have no problem with people lying to them.....

 

You really need to change your name...

 

 

  …. Now that is funny!

[PrincessLuver]

1 hour ago, Thrak said:

 

You really need to change your name...

 

 

Hotel and tour company: Refunding 50 - 200 guests. Easy

Princess: Refunding many thousands of guests: Difficult

 

Hilton, United and Lufthansa are significantly larger companies than Princess.....

[c-boy]

5 hours ago, PrincessLuver said:

 

Princess is the only travel company that we have had a problem in getting a significant refund returned from......hotels, airlines, private excursion companies no problem.....but Princess who supposedly values people's loyalty is showing just how little they really value being loyal back and doing what is right for thousands of their cruise guests......it is really turning into a ripoff....they started with 30 days and then went to 60 days and you can bet it is going to go to 90 days and continue on to probably never......so funny that some people sing the praises of Princess for doing nothing......I guess they have no problem with people lying to them.....

is this vacation on a credit card or payed in full. In other words who is going to get the credit for a refund, your bank account or Citi, Capital One, Chase .... ? Most of your angst seems to be directed toward a shell game you have no control over.

[npcl]

2 hours ago, Thrak said:

 

You really need to change your name...

 

 

Hotel and tour company: Refunding 50 - 200 guests. Easy

Princess: Refunding many thousands of guests: Difficult

The airlines (United, Delta, Alaska, and Hawaiian) have all refunded in less than 10 days. I am quite sure that they are also processing as many if not more than each of the cruise lines.

 

My refund from Princess is for a cancellation prior to final payment date.  Nothing special.  Canceled prior to suspension of cruising was announced. They managed to refund pre-paid Gratuities in 4 days.  Returned the FCCs for the deposit to my account in two.  They stated at the time of cancellation that it should take 10 days.  So far over 40 days.

 

This does have all the signs of them intentionally slow walking  refunds as part of their cash management. 

 

At 60 days I start sending letters to the appropriate state attorney generals, after all most state laws require refunds to be processed in a reasonable time frame.  Get enough people doing so, trigger a few letters and investigation there and it might shake something loose.

Edited April 14, 2020 by npcl

[PrincessLuver]

49 minutes ago, npcl said:

 

This does have all the signs of them intentionally slow walking  refunds as part of their cash management. 

 

At 60 days I start sending letters to the appropriate state attorney generals, after all most state laws require refunds to be processed in a reasonable time frame.  Get enough people doing so, trigger a few letters and investigation there and it might shake something loose.

 

I am sure a lot of us will be sending complaints to appropriate state and federal agencies......it appears Princess is just playing games and suggesting vague timelines for possible compensation.....very disappointed in them as a corporation....I cannot see how they survive this because people are just not all of a sudden going to be jumping on cruise ships and yet they are willing to allienate a large segment of their loyal customer base....business 101?

[brisalta]

3 hours ago, Thrak said:

 

You really need to change your name...

 

 

Hotel and tour company: Refunding 50 - 200 guests. Easy

Princess: Refunding many thousands of guests: Difficult

 

2 hours ago, PrincessLuver said:

 

Hilton, United and Lufthansa are significantly larger companies than Princess.....

 

Hotels generally work as individual units for bookings so refunding 50-200 guests is easier.

Not heard anything regarding airline refunds regarding COVID-19 except for a few complaints on CC about not being able to get any refund improved or a change of date allowed

[land lover]

Just quickly read thru  the last few pages of posts.....for those who are waiting for their refunds..be glad you didn't book  land trips, ours to Oberammergau was moved to 2022, Olympics 2021... am getting no refund no extra FCC just credit for what I paid for future travel with the companies or they will move me to the new dates. Even my air which has not been ticketed is not refundable...yep their keeping that money too...and for Oberammaergau even though the company had my full payment since November, I had booked air with them on March 15...Really???

 

This year we had only one cruise pre- booked. Wanted to try out  Carnival's 3 month old Panorama out of Long Beach, CA. a cove balcony cabin(deck 2 , cut out to the hull, very cool) left on Feb, 29th returned on March 7  but didn't get off the ship until March 8....yep, 4500 pax including 1000+ children spent an extra night due to testing of one passenger thank goodness the test was negative. 12 hours of waiting, and the unknown is not fun. For those that have endured a quarantine on a ship or are still sailing I take my hat off to you.

 

Honestly...waiting for a refund or FCC....just sayin' 

[BarbinMich]

17 hours ago, npcl said:

. . .

 

At 60 days I start sending letters to the appropriate state attorney generals, after all most state laws require refunds to be processed in a reasonable time frame.  Get enough people doing so, trigger a few letters and investigation there and it might shake something loose.

These are extraordinary times.  Give refunders a break.  I think state attorney generals have more important things to do in times like these.

[npcl]

5 minutes ago, BarbinMich said:

These are extraordinary times.  Give refunders a break.  I think state attorney generals have more important things to do in times like these.

No they have entire departments for things like this.  It keeps them employed as well.  Funny that the cruise lines are the only ones that seem to be taking a long time.  Airlines seem to be handling their massive changes/refunds in a timely manner.

 

If we were seeing some flow in refunds I might agree with you, but instead we are getting almost no reports of refunds actually being processed.  No sign by cruise date, not by date of request, no response from Princess to inquiries on actual status, nothing.

 

That is not the sign of a department that is just over whelmed and have a long back log. If it was just that we would be seeing some refunds being processed and some pattern to how they were being prioritized. It is the sign of a company that has made a decision to intentionally slow walk the process to manage cash flow.

 

 

[PrincessLuver]

1 minute ago, npcl said:

No they have entire departments for things like this.  It keeps them employed as well.  Funny that the cruise lines are the only ones that seem to be taking a long time.  Airlines seem to be handling their massive changes/refunds in a timely manner.

 

If we were seeing some flow in refunds I might agree with you, but instead we are getting almost no reports of refunds actually being processed.  No sign by cruise date, not by date of request, no response from Princess to inquiries on actual status, nothing.

 

That is not the sign of a department that is just over whelmed and have a long back log. If it was just that we would be seeing some refunds being processed and some pattern to how they were being prioritized. It is the sign of a company that has made a decision to intentionally slow walk the process to manage cash flow.

 

 

 

Totally agree....it feels like we are being played by Princess and they have no intention of issuing refunds....why would they?They are not generating any cash and it does not look like they are going to be generating any revenue for quite some time.

I am sure they have to be in dire straights especially because the cruise lines qualified for no Federal stimulus money....nada.

[fishin' musician]

44 minutes ago, PrincessLuver said:

 

Totally agree....it feels like we are being played by Princess and they have no intention of issuing refunds....why would they?They are not generating any cash and it does not look like they are going to be generating any revenue for quite some time.

I am sure they have to be in dire straights especially because the cruise lines qualified for no Federal stimulus money....nada.

 

What's the old saying, you can't blood out of stone, or is it rock?  Turnip?  Anyway, there is a reason they call it disposable income...

[phred119s]

While they may have entire departments for this, 18 ships times however many cruises times however many passengers WILL overwhelm that department when looking at what that department typically would process at any given moment.  I come from an accounting & finance background (19 years), and I can tell you that even on a smaller scale the thorough check would take a while.  ....And those choosing to dispute through their credit card companies are likely making the issue worse.  With these volumes, 60 days is completely reasonable. 

 

Plus, remember many of these folks are likely working from home and that's a whole new set of challenges.  (My husband and I have both been working from home and are homeschooling a child now at the same time.)  

[Abercrombie2019]

1 hour ago, npcl said:

No they have entire departments for things like this.  It keeps them employed as well.  Funny that the cruise lines are the only ones that seem to be taking a long time.  Airlines seem to be handling their massive changes/refunds in a timely manner.

 

If we were seeing some flow in refunds I might agree with you, but instead we are getting almost no reports of refunds actually being processed.  No sign by cruise date, not by date of request, no response from Princess to inquiries on actual status, nothing.

 

That is not the sign of a department that is just over whelmed and have a long back log. If it was just that we would be seeing some refunds being processed and some pattern to how they were being prioritized. It is the sign of a company that has made a decision to intentionally slow walk the process to manage cash flow.

 

 

You are lucky if you are only having problems with Princess being slow.  We booked our flights with a Canadian airline that is refusing to refund for flights that they cancelled.  They are only providing future travel vouchers for up to 24 months.  A very popular third party booking website is trying to get me to take a voucher for a future hotel visit (115% of cash value) instead of refunding our money on a fully refundable cash booking that we have cancelled.  We've now waited about a month for that refund.  In the end, I can complain until I am blue in the face or I can just be patient - because it isn't going to change the outcome at all.

[gatour]

On 4/10/2020 at 6:08 PM, Hlitner said:

It is not just Dr. Argarwal who has reached that conclusion.  It has also been studied by some academics in the USA that have reached the same conclusion.   We also have some first hand experience since we live in a cruise port during the winter and see how little the passengers contribute to the local economy other then supporting one major local tour company who has a near monopoly on all cruise excursions.  

 

But your comment about places that would barely exist without cruise ship passengers got my interest.  DW and I have probably been to over 150 cruise destinations, over more then forty years, and we have yet to see any port or surrounding region that has benefited from the cruise influx.  Can you site some places that would "barely exist" without cruise ship passengers?

 

I will tell you that we are very aware of some major European ports that would be very happy to see the demise of cruise visits.  And we have watched cruise ship visits all but destroy the charm of several Caribbean islands.....as some others continue to do their utmost to keep ships out (St Barts and Anguilla are two good examples).

 

Hank

For the barely exist.  I would say Costa Maya.  For one of our cruises last year I tried to book a beach club day visit.  It was completely booked by other passengers on the ship we were sailing on.  Found another place "in town"  The whole promenade was full of beach clubs and various restaurants.  They were staffed by locals.  When the Costa Maya dock was first built it was just a sleepy fishing village.

 

While some locals may not like how the area has changed, I am sure those that are  making a living don't mind the change.

 

Remember Orlando was a sleepy little citrus/cattle town before Disney arrived.

[npcl]

18 minutes ago, Abercrombie2019 said:

You are lucky if you are only having problems with Princess being slow.  We booked our flights with a Canadian airline that is refusing to refund for flights that they cancelled.  They are only providing future travel vouchers for up to 24 months.  A very popular third party booking website is trying to get me to take a voucher for a future hotel visit (115% of cash value) instead of refunding our money on a fully refundable cash booking that we have cancelled.  We've now waited about a month for that refund.  In the end, I can complain until I am blue in the face or I can just be patient - because it isn't going to change the outcome at all.

At least you are getting a response from them.  Are the companies responding according to their refund policy within a reasonable time frame.  If they are fine.  If their return policy is a voucher then they do not have to refund, if on the other hand the policy is for a refund then notify whoever handled consumer complaints in your area.

 

In this case my request for a refund was in line with Princesses stated refund policy, made prior to their suspension of service.

[npcl]

26 minutes ago, phred119s said:

While they may have entire departments for this, 18 ships times however many cruises times however many passengers WILL overwhelm that department when looking at what that department typically would process at any given moment.  I come from an accounting & finance background (19 years), and I can tell you that even on a smaller scale the thorough check would take a while.  ....And those choosing to dispute through their credit card companies are likely making the issue worse.  With these volumes, 60 days is completely reasonable. 

 

Plus, remember many of these folks are likely working from home and that's a whole new set of challenges.  (My husband and I have both been working from home and are homeschooling a child now at the same time.)  

The issue is we are not getting examples of ANYONE getting their refund.  I would agree with you concerning a back log if there was any appearance of any refunds being processed, by any of CCL's lines. While CC is only a sampling of the cruise population (about 6%), we have a big enough sampling of people that have canceled at various times, for various dated cruises, that if anything was being processed we would be getting some indication that some processing is take place. Especially since the people here are active cruisers with cruises booked in the time frame being impacted.

 

A big difference between a backlog caused by a lot of refunds to be processed, compared to no indication that any refunds are being processed.

 

Or to put it another way if there is an existing backlog of 90 days than 1/90 should be getting processed per day since this started 30 days ago one would expect 1/3 of pending refunds to be processed.  No sign of that.

[Abercrombie2019]

2 minutes ago, npcl said:

At least you are getting a response from them.  Are the companies responding according to their refund policy within a reasonable time frame.  If they are fine.  If their return policy is a voucher then they do not have to refund, if on the other hand the policy is for a refund then notify whoever handled consumer complaints in your area.

 

In this case my request for a refund was in line with Princesses stated refund policy, made prior to their suspension of service.

The airline in question has only posted a notice on their website.  It is not possible to get through to a person.  The third party website only emailed me (automated email) after waiting more than three weeks.  They only wanted me to respond with a “yes” to the voucher.  If my response is “no”, which it was, they don’t want to hear from me.  They will send the refund when they get around to it.  

I hope that everyone’s refunds get processed.  (I’m supposed to be working from home right now, so I better get back to work.  It’s too easy to get distracted.)

[npcl]

1 minute ago, Abercrombie2019 said:

The airline in question has only posted a notice on their website.  It is not possible to get through to a person.  The third party website only emailed me (automated email) after waiting more than three weeks.  They only wanted me to respond with a “yes” to the voucher.  If my response is “no”, which it was, they don’t want to hear from me.  They will send the refund when they get around to it.  

I hope that everyone’s refunds get processed.  (I’m supposed to be working from home right now, so I better get back to work.  It’s too easy to get distracted.)

It took me waiting on hold over 3 hours on hold to get through to one airline for business class seats, got my refund in less than 10 days.  Though that was right in the middle of March, called the same company about a different flight yesterday, got someone on the phone in 2 minutes, the customer service person could not answer the question, but connected me directly to their refund department with another 3 minute hold.

 

Companies are doing all kinds of things to try and get people to take vouchers. Most of what is going on is not a function of lack of system capacity.  It is an intentional desire for cash management.  It is a direct calculation that when given only an option of a voucher, X percentange will just accept it, Give a bonus percentage and more will take it.  Doing it that way they greatly reduce the number that will actual pursue and get the refund. It is up to each person how they want to treat their situation.  

[Daniel A]

52 minutes ago, phred119s said:

those choosing to dispute through their credit card companies are likely making the issue worse.  With these volumes, 60 days is completely reasonable.   

 

Amen.

[PrincessLuver]

23 minutes ago, npcl said:

The issue is we are not getting examples of ANYONE getting their refund.  I would agree with you concerning a back log if there was any appearance of any refunds being processed, by any of CCL's lines. While CC is only a sampling of the cruise population (about 6%), we have a big enough sampling of people that have canceled at various times, for various dated cruises, that if anything was being processed we would be getting some indication that some processing is take place. Especially since the people here are active cruisers with cruises booked in the time frame being impacted.

 

A big difference between a backlog caused by a lot of refunds to be processed, compared to no indication that any refunds are being processed.

 

Or to put it another way if there is an existing backlog of 90 days than 1/90 should be getting processed per day since this started 30 days ago one would expect 1/3 of pending refunds to be processed.  No sign of that.

 

I agree that it is odd that nothing is being processed.....I called to get some Princess gift cards refunded and they said they are making no refunds of cards and that I can use them on a cruise.....what cruise?   It is amazing and worrisome that they have no problem being so disingenuous. 

[dweeb]

31 minutes ago, Abercrombie2019 said:

The airline in question has only posted a notice on their website.  It is not possible to get through to a person.  The third party website only emailed me (automated email) after waiting more than three weeks.  They only wanted me to respond with a “yes” to the voucher.  If my response is “no”, which it was, they don’t want to hear from me.  They will send the refund when they get around to it.  

I hope that everyone’s refunds get processed.  (I’m supposed to be working from home right now, so I better get back to work.  It’s too easy to get distracted.)

 

You do realize that Canada has different Consumer Laws than what the USA has?  The DOT here in the USA has stated that the airlines must give a monetary refund for the canceled flights.  However, I don't know what Canada has in place that compares to the DOT.  (DOT = Department of Transportation)

 

Same goes for credit card protections.  Each country will have their own laws on what the consumer can do.  

[mnocket]

On 4/3/2020 at 12:26 PM, Potstech said:

Speculation, Speculation and then more speculation. No one will know until this is over with.

 

If I get you correctly, it sounds like you believe speculation is worthless.  I couldn't disagree more.  Speculation, in the absence of reliable information, is the foundation of good decision making.  For example, government's responses to the pandemic is based largely on speculation.  The true facts of the pandemic won't be known until well after the crisis has passed.  That means governments must make decisions based on speculations - e.g. "what do we THINK will happen if we do A vs B vs C?.

 

Of much less consequence, but the heart of this discussion, people are speculating about the recovery time-frame for the cruise industry.  Why?  Well it's an important consideration for making future vacation plans.  One can only speculate as to when Princess will resume cruising and whether or not the published itineraries will change, but based on each person's "best guess", they will plan for their vacation future.

[dog]

In the past 3 months I have dealt with 2 cancellations for cruise deposits. One was refunded within 2 days. The second one went through the dispute process with Amex and was resolved in my favour, in less then 2 weeks. ( cruiseline  kept stringing my TA along with we are doing it right now, will get it in 24-48 hours etc). 
and I also cancelled my Island Princess cruise on March 6 th for March 7 th sailing. I received my 100 percent FCC a couple of weeks ago. No bonus FCC or cash. I did receive my taxes/ fees/ pre purchases refund to my credit card the same day I cancelled. 
I say to those still waiting,  to do what you think is best for you. Don’t concern yourself with comments from others. Princess is a business They did not deliver what you paid for. They owe you  do not “ feel” sorry for a business. Princess was very generous in my situation with the March 6 th cancellation. 

[Abercrombie2019]

13 minutes ago, dweeb said:

 

You do realize that Canada has different Consumer Laws than what the USA has?  The DOT here in the USA has stated that the airlines must give a monetary refund for the canceled flights.  However, I don't know what Canada has in place that compares to the DOT.  (DOT = Department of Transportation)

 

Same goes for credit card protections.  Each country will have their own laws on what the consumer can do.  

I am aware that consumer protection laws will vary by jurisdiction.  I was merely trying to show that the response from Princess hasn’t been that different from the response that I’ve had from any of the other travel companies that I’ve been dealing with.  They all want to stay in business.

 

Good luck to everyone and stay healthy.