CRUISE REFUND RECEIVED

[AnnieC]

5 hours ago, majortom10 said:

Certainly swings it for me to never consider booking a cruise with Fred Olsen Cruise Lines.

Very naughty encouraging people to pay by bank transfer, however it doesn't say that's the only way of paying. You can still pay by credit/debit card but won't go into their prize draw; you'd have to be pretty daft to go for that, but perhaps some would. On the whole they've behaved better than Carnival over refunds, so will you book with them in future?

[terrierjohn]

On 4/10/2020 at 8:54 AM, wowzz said:

It's always 5 pm somewhere.

Are you are a Jimmy Buffet fan then wowzz?

[Manx buoy]

So they’re now starting to refund the last batch of cancellations not Oceana the lot before that people on FB getting refunds for October cruises we were supposed to be on  cruise in September not a sniff anyone else? Maybe they do them in reverse order🤷‍♂️

[Harry Peterson]

16 minutes ago, Manx buoy said:

So they’re now starting to refund the last batch of cancellations not Oceana the lot before that people on FB getting refunds for October cruises we were supposed to be on  cruise in September not a sniff anyone else? Maybe they do them in reverse order🤷‍♂️

Chargeback - see above.

[Manx buoy]

4 minutes ago, Harry Peterson said:

Chargeback - see above.

Well aware of  chargeback will use it if needs be just a general question go back to injury lawyers for you Harry🤦‍♂️

[Harry Peterson]

9 minutes ago, Manx buoy said:

Well aware of  chargeback will use it if needs be just a general question go back to injury lawyers for you Harry🤦‍♂️

Just intended as a suggestion, since you appeared to be wondering how best to get a refund.  Sorry if you took it the wrong way.

 

Puzzled by the reference to 'injury lawyers' though..........🤔

[AndyMichelle]

29 minutes ago, terrierjohn said:

Are you are a Jimmy Buffet fan then wowzz?

Nah, Wowzz is definitely a Jimmy MDR fan John😊

Andy 

[Manx buoy]

12 minutes ago, Harry Peterson said:

Just intended as a suggestion, since you appeared to be wondering how best to get a refund.  Sorry if you took it the wrong way.

 

Puzzled by the reference to 'injury lawyers' though..........🤔

Yourself KTS and Staygulf seem to think you’re the forums legal advisers just a play on words 😉

[staygulf]

7 minutes ago, Manx buoy said:

Yourself KTS and Staygulf seem to think you’re the forums legal advisers just a play on words 😉

You’ve got a fertile imagination if you know what I think. I’m certainly not a legal adviser, but do offer advice from my own experience. 

[Harry Peterson]

13 minutes ago, Manx buoy said:

Yourself KTS and Staygulf seem to think you’re the forums legal advisers just a play on words 😉

I'm sorry to have upset you.  You asked for advice on how to get a refund.  I gave it - the use of chargeback. 

 

If you feel those of us with a legal background 'seem to think you’re the forums legal advisers' I apologise again for having offered to help you, since it's clearly offended you.

 

Would you prefer advice from someone without a legal background?  If so, please feel free to block me.  I won't be in the least offended.

[Manx buoy]

6 minutes ago, Harry Peterson said:

I'm sorry to have upset you.  You asked for advice on how to get a refund.  I gave it - the use of chargeback. 

 

If you feel those of us with a legal background 'seem to think you’re the forums legal advisers' I apologise again for having offered to help you, since it's clearly offended you.

 

Would you prefer advice from someone without a legal background?  If so, please feel free to block me.  I won't be in the least offended.

I didn’t ask for advice I’m quite aware of my rights I was asking for other people’s experiences you need to lighten up a bit mate

[Selbourne]

1 hour ago, Manx buoy said:

So they’re now starting to refund the last batch of cancellations not Oceana the lot before that people on FB getting refunds for October cruises we were supposed to be on  cruise in September not a sniff anyone else? Maybe they do them in reverse order🤷‍♂️

That’s interesting but, call me a cynic, I can’t help but wonder if P&O will do what they have done with each batch of cancellations so far - pay out a very small number quite quickly and then make the vast majority wait several months. Quite a clever approach. On forums such as this one and FB a few people post that they’ve had refunds, so others think ‘mine must be on the way’ and therefore don’t chase, meanwhile P&O just continues to underpin it’s cash flow with the vast bulk of their customers money. I would put money on the fact that there will be some who wait over 100 days following each and every batch of cancellations.

[mercury7289]

20 minutes ago, Selbourne said:

That’s interesting but, call me a cynic, I can’t help but wonder if P&O will do what they have done with each batch of cancellations so far - pay out a very small number quite quickly and then make the vast majority wait several months. Quite a clever approach. On forums such as this one and FB a few people post that they’ve had refunds, so others think ‘mine must be on the way’ and therefore don’t chase, meanwhile P&O just continues to underpin it’s cash flow with the vast bulk of their customers money. I would put money on the fact that there will be some who wait over 100 days following each and every batch of cancellations.

Selbourne

 

Its just not me then!

 

[wowzz]

2 hours ago, terrierjohn said:

Are you are a Jimmy Buffet fan then wowzz?

John, not sure why you have resurrected an ancient post ?

[No pager thank you]

1 hour ago, Selbourne said:

I would put money on the fact that there will be some who wait over 100 days following each and every batch of cancellations.

I would happily join your wager Selbourne...with a FCC 😀

 

As I see it, the problem for customers is that with still 50% of cancelled bookings taking FCCs; a high proportion of new (instead of substitute) bookings for 2021 being made; and a reducing average passenger age to 45, P&O can, at the moment, afford to continue as is. 

 

They are not, as yet, suffering enough of a consequence by going as they please and whatever they say publicly, it's just not coming across as a strategic priority to the loyal customer base.

 

It still remains the case that the customer can wait 200 or whatever number of days it becomes and P&O's liability remains what it was at the 14 day point.  A small minority only will go s75, chargeback or small claims route.  So, why bother trying harder?

 

I get the impression that things will change, but only when one of the larger package tour operators gets taken to task by the CMA.  A £10M fine plus or a cap on their ability to take new bookings would go a long way to engaging the backers and forcing upwards the refinancing rates! 

[terrierjohn]

56 minutes ago, wowzz said:

John, not sure why you have resurrected an ancient post ?

Neither do I  wowzz, AFAIK I was just commenting on the next post in line, must have been a worm hole I was in!!!

[Jim Cox]

11 hours ago, Manx buoy said:

Yourself KTS and Staygulf seem to think you’re the forums legal advisers just a play on words 😉

Made a bit of a fool of yourself, haven't you?  Ask for advice, someone gives it, then you say you don't want advice from anyone with the right expertise!

 

Presumably you get your legal advice from a butcher, and accountancy advice from a plumber.   😁

[Manx buoy]

39 minutes ago, Jim Cox said:

Made a bit of a fool of yourself, haven't you?  Ask for advice, someone gives it, then you say you don't want advice from anyone with the right expertise!

 

Presumably you get your legal advice from a butcher, and accountancy advice from a plumber.   😁

Maybe you can advise me where in that post I’m asking for advice maybe you were taught English by an Irishman😉

[molecrochip]

I would suggest that if anyone is specifically awaiting a refund from the March - May cancellations that now is a good time to nudge P&O. Anecdotal comments suggest that there is a minority of refunds for this period outstanding.

 

As I've said before, this has never been about cashflow. With $7bn sat in bank accounts its was never an issue. Someone calculated that using the pre-existing manual methods of refunding would have taken well into 2021 based on available staff numbers and the high level of calls being received. Hence the pause why they created an semi-automated process. However, even with that in place, having done some manual refunds, its still been necessary to check that no one receives a refund twice. Additionally, not ever website request for a refund matches 100% to details on file.

 

Offering enhanced FCC actually slowed down the process as it was not as simple as determining that everyone could be refunded. So did P&O's decision to, unusually, undertake all travel agent refunds direct*. This was done on the basis that many travel agents had furloughed all their staff so the expectation was that it was a quicker method. Hindsight is a wonderful thing.

 

* usually TAs undertake their refunds and P&O provide a total payment to the TA to cover.

[No pager thank you]

8 minutes ago, molecrochip said:

I would suggest that if anyone is specifically awaiting a refund from the March - May cancellations that now is a good time to nudge P&O. Anecdotal comments suggest that there is a minority of refunds for this period outstanding.

 

As I've said before, this has never been about cashflow. With $7bn sat in bank accounts its was never an issue. Someone calculated that using the pre-existing manual methods of refunding would have taken well into 2021 based on available staff numbers and the high level of calls being received. Hence the pause why they created an semi-automated process. However, even with that in place, having done some manual refunds, its still been necessary to check that no one receives a refund twice. Additionally, not ever website request for a refund matches 100% to details on file.

 

Offering enhanced FCC actually slowed down the process as it was not as simple as determining that everyone could be refunded. So did P&O's decision to, unusually, undertake all travel agent refunds direct*. This was done on the basis that many travel agents had furloughed all their staff so the expectation was that it was a quicker method. Hindsight is a wonderful thing.

 

* usually TAs undertake their refunds and P&O provide a total payment to the TA to cover.

Thank you for this explanation and suggestion.  All I can say is that I do have monies outstanding from this period and indeed again nudged yesterday, as I periodically do.

 

What I must say for balance is that the person who answered me gave neither an undertaking to expedite the matter, nor offered any form of apology, nor gave a similar explanation for the delay.  There appears to be a distinct reluctance to "take ownership" in many cases. 

 

I have read several stories (including from P&O) of redirecting customers to their complaints process, instead of responding, and then allocating themselves 28 days to respond using ABTA guidelines - that was this week from the official social media team.  This applied to delayed March and April reimbursements.

 

The distinct impression one gets is that "it will be, what it will be."

 

An area of refunds which appear to be particularly delayed, from anecdote, are pre-paid shore excursions, and on-board extras, as these are bound within a separate process to main cruise balance refunds.

[Harry Peterson]

14 minutes ago, molecrochip said:

As I've said before, this has never been about cashflow. With $7bn sat in bank accounts its was never an issue.

I’m afraid I have to disagree with you there.  Having $7bn, if that’s the figure, of somebody else’s money that had to be borrowed at very high rates of interest, can’t really count.

 

Carnival’s outgoings are huge at the moment, with very little comparatively speaking, coming in by way of cash, and their further borrowing is strictly limited.

 

It’s critical that they minimise cash flowing out, and that’s the main driver.

[AnnieC]

Yet again, I agree with Harry. This is all very worrying.😄

 

 

[Harry Peterson]

Just now, AnnieC said:

Yet again, I agree with Harry. This is all very worrying.😄

 

 

Sorry, Annie. Hate to cause such distress........😪

 

Harry

[molecrochip]

25 minutes ago, No pager thank you said:

Thank you for this explanation and suggestion.  All I can say is that I do have monies outstanding from this period and indeed again nudged yesterday, as I periodically do.

 

What I must say for balance is that the person who answered me gave neither an undertaking to expedite the matter, nor offered any form of apology, nor gave a similar explanation for the delay.  There appears to be a distinct reluctance to "take ownership" in many cases. 

 

I have read several stories (including from P&O) of redirecting customers to their complaints process, instead of responding, and then allocating themselves 28 days to respond using ABTA guidelines - that was this week from the official social media team.  This applied to delayed March and April reimbursements.

 

The distinct impression one gets is that "it will be, what it will be."

 

An area of refunds which appear to be particularly delayed, from anecdote, are pre-paid shore excursions, and on-board extras, as these are bound within a separate process to main cruise balance refunds.

The call center staff are essentially working off a script. I think one-two months ago they were trying to be helpful and escalate matters up the chain for quicker resolution. They did this so often that it defeated the point. Also, the call center staff have had so much flak of customers that their desire to help has sadly diminished. 

 

And Harry, a relatively tiny proportion of their reserves were needed for refunding customers. The majority of funds where needed for ship and staff costs. While I understand 'standard business logic', this money had to go back to customers. The systems were just not in place to do it quick enough. Carnival have the funds in their account earning relatively little interest. They do however have to pay out the interest on what they have borrowed anyway.

 

Oceana was announced as leaving on 6 July. Some people have already had their refunds. My understanding is that, for Oceana refunds and any further changes, efforts are being made to meet the 14 day requirement. 

 

Harry, just to add, if this was an expense that the could just push back and back and back until they were receiving income again then I might agree but it isn't. These funds need to go back to customers during the pause in operations come what may.

Edited July 17, 2020 by molecrochip
expansion of last sentance.

[wowzz]

4 minutes ago, AnnieC said:

Yet again, I agree with Harry. This is all very worrying.😄

 

 

Yes, agreeing with Harry is worrying!