CRUISE REFUND RECEIVED

[staygulf]

33 minutes ago, Son of Anarchy said:

 

Surprise surprise, my question to the above post has mysteriously disappeared.

 

So, in the style of Piers Morgan...

 

You previously stated that 12 May 2020 was D-Day regarding your action against Carnival.  You aint running up the beach.  Ike was delayed by adverse weather, your excuse is?

 

Nothing in the London Gazette.  People need to piggy back onto you case.

 

When will Paul Ludlow need to change his underwear?

Not sure what your point is. I decided to sue. The civil procedure rules require me to have given them every chance to pay which I have now done by serving a notice before action outlining my case and requesting payment one final time. What’s your problem ?

[staygulf]

27 minutes ago, NoFlyGuy said:

Each to their own. As I posted last night we'll sit and wait it out. 

In case you hadn't noticed, the world's a different place to what it was a few months ago.

P and O are just laying off 400 staff. How long do you propose to wait? 

[Son of Anarchy]

8 minutes ago, staygulf said:

Not sure what your point is. I decided to sue. The civil procedure rules require me to have given them every chance to pay which I have now done by serving a notice before action outlining my case and requesting payment one final time. What’s your problem ?

My point is you have previously vociferously stated that you will issue a winding up order as PandO were in breach of the 14 day legislated time limit for issuing of your refund.  Following reasoned debate regarding this, several post mysteriously disappeared.

 

 Until I see otherwise in the London Gazette, I can only conclude that your winding up order is exactly what you stated:

 

A wind up.

 

 

[staygulf]

1 minute ago, Son of Anarchy said:

My point is you have previously vociferously stated that you will issue a winding up order as PandO were in breach of the 14 day legislated time limit for issuing of your refund.  Following reasoned debate regarding this, several post mysteriously disappeared.

 

 Until I see otherwise in the London Gazette, I can only conclude that your winding up order is exactly what you stated:

 

A wind up.

 

 

It was certainly not a wind up. As I said, I decided it would be easier and quicker and less costly to go to court and then use bailiffs than to go down the winding up route. 

[NoFlyGuy]

21 minutes ago, staygulf said:

P and O are just laying off 400 staff. How long do you propose to wait? 

As long as it takes. It's not my business to know your personal circumstances but as I posted yesterday, I feel for those who need a refund to help ends meet rather than to book a new holiday in 2021. There's no way P&O can know these people.

I'm sure we will get our refund in due course and it will just go back into our holiday account, which it came from .

[Turn the Tide]

1 hour ago, grapau27 said:

It is down to cost.

It's down to whether you put your customers first or you shaft them for a bit more profit. We all know what P&O's choice is and it will hurt them badly in the long run.

[Turn the Tide]

36 minutes ago, NoFlyGuy said:

As long as it takes. It's not my business to know your personal circumstances but as I posted yesterday, I feel for those who need a refund to help ends meet rather than to book a new holiday in 2021. There's no way P&O can know these people.

I'm sure we will get our refund in due course and it will just go back into our holiday account, which it came from .

I only hope you're right and your doormat position works out for you.

[wowzz]

1 minute ago, Turn the Tide said:

It's down to whether you put your customers first or you shaft them for a bit more profit. We all know what P&O's choice is and it will hurt them badly in the long run.

As a matter of interest,  how much  independence do we think P&O have in this whole refund scenario ? As far as I can see, Cunard,  Princess,  HAM are all behaving in much the same fashion,  dictated, I would suppose, by the finance department at Carnival USA .

Many of us are saying that we will not cruise with P&O again,  but, in  reality there are not that many options left.

[Turn the Tide]

2 minutes ago, wowzz said:

As a matter of interest,  how much  independence do we think P&O have in this whole refund scenario ? As far as I can see, Cunard,  Princess,  HAM are all behaving in much the same fashion,  dictated, I would suppose, by the finance department at Carnival USA .

Many of us are saying that we will not cruise with P&O again,  but, in  reality there are not that many options left.

There are other cruise companies - Royal Caribean?

[wowzz]

3 minutes ago, Turn the Tide said:

There are other cruise companies - Royal Caribean?

I'd rather stay at home !

[No pager thank you]

On the topic of "if not P&O then who" I have been looking at the experiences of customers who may be considered as travelling with rivals of P&O i.e. non Carnival, similar class.

 

I regret to say that P&O seem to be doing marginally better at the moment than either CMV or MSC but no doubt even these poor lines will catch up soon, if on rate/progress and not on timeliness. 

 

CMV are reporting a delay (from 6th May publication) of between 90-120 days, apparently in line with ABTA guidance as an official position?!

 

MSC are quoting 120 days from the date that they acknowledge your email, not when you apply, even worse.

 

Customers pursuing chargebacks and section 75 claims are having some success it seems.

 

On the flip side, from what I can see RCL, Celebrity and Fred Olsen are all doing better than P&O (in terms of actual delivery) - part picture only.

 

TUI et al I rank even lower than CMV & MSC so not a fair comparison.

 

Simon Calder has apparently been quoted as saying 2 months is acceptable, 3 months is unacceptable, 4 months is a breach of ABTA Code of Conduct and encouraging people to go down that line.  I assume that is an interpretation, it is taken from another CC board.  This means in my book that P&O is moving to unacceptable.

 

Time will tell but I am worried that the silence from Carnival House will turn in to them seeing ok to quote higher than 60 as the ground has been prepared now. 

 

Very worrying!

 

[grapau27]

18 minutes ago, Turn the Tide said:

There are other cruise companies - Royal Caribean?

My personal first choice for the variety of activities on board and size of ships  plus as a high loyalty member we get fantastic benefits.

We like P&O as well and always have 1 cruise a year with P&O.

[grapau27]

33 minutes ago, Turn the Tide said:

It's down to whether you put your customers first or you shaft them for a bit more profit. We all know what P&O's choice is and it will hurt them badly in the long run.

I have always put my customers first.

[wowzz]

5 minutes ago, No pager thank you said:

On the topic of "if not P&O then who" I have been looking at the experiences of customers who may be considered as travelling with rivals of P&O i.e. non Carnival, similar class.

 

I regret to say that P&O seem to be doing marginally better at the moment than either CMV or MSC but no doubt even these poor lines will catch up soon, if on rate/progress and not on timeliness. 

 

CMV are reporting a delay (from 6th May publication) of between 90-120 days, apparently in line with ABTA guidance as an official position?!

 

MSC are quoting 120 days from the date that they acknowledge your email, not when you apply, even worse.

 

Customers pursuing chargebacks and section 75 claims are having some success it seems.

 

On the flip side, from what I can see RCL, Celebrity and Fred Olsen are all doing better than P&O (in terms of actual delivery) - part picture only.

 

TUI et al I rank even lower than CMV & MSC so not a fair comparison.

 

Simon Calder has apparently been quoted as saying 2 months is acceptable, 3 months is unacceptable, 4 months is a breach of ABTA Code of Conduct and encouraging people to go down that line.  I assume that is an interpretation, it is taken from another CC board.  This means in my book that P&O is moving to unacceptable.

 

Time will tell but I am worried that the silence from Carnival House will turn in to them seeing ok to quote higher than 60 as the ground has been prepared now. 

 

Very worrying!

 

Interesting - No way that I would cruise with CMV, Marella,  Fred or RCL. I might consider MSC, but only if I could afford the Yacht Club.

So, I really am only left with Celebrity, Saga and P&O/Princess. Obviously there are the more boutique lines such as Viking, but  in reality, those threatening never to cruise with P&O again have limited choice.

I'm giving Saga a go, if the cruise goes ahead next year. If it goes well, we will cruise for 50% less time, but with 100% more enjoyment in the future.

[bobstheboy]

Day 60 has arrived and will surely go without my refund.

 

No point throwing my toys out of the pram but it is tempting.

[peteukmcr]

8 hours ago, wowzz said:

I'd rather stay at home !

 

8 hours ago, wowzz said:

Interesting - No way that I would cruise with CMV, Marella,  Fred or RCL. I might consider MSC, but only if I could afford the Yacht Club.

So, I really am only left with Celebrity, Saga and P&O/Princess. Obviously there are the more boutique lines such as Viking, but  in reality, those threatening never to cruise with P&O again have limited choice.

I'm giving Saga a go, if the cruise goes ahead next year. If it goes well, we will cruise for 50% less time, but with 100% more enjoyment in the future.

Firstly I must say just because I have received a refund I do not wish to appear self-satisfied (I am still awaiting refunds for other items from P&O) which primarily is the subject of this thread.

 

However, with regard to alternatives and your choice never to sail with Royal Caribbean (that is your choice obviously), I want to present another viewpoint as to why we've returned to Royal Caribbean for many cruises. It is their customer service, not just the amenities offered by the ships in their fleet. Have Royal Caribbean been perfect for all of our 23 sailings with them? No, but their customer service has proven to me that they care about their customers and all issues have been resolved promptly and in some cases with compensation (never requested). Contrary to what you may read by the 'loyal to Royal' brigade, they do value customer loyalty.

 

Admittedly these are difficult times, but even RCI managed to refund me within 26 days in April which is long after we started the process with P&O. I know that they have now extended their timescales for refunds to 45 days but it's still not 60 as being quoted by P&O with the constant excuses and changes to the goal posts (within 45 days, oh no that's working days etc). It is also possible to contact them easily by phone as I did (within 5 minutes on hold) and within 10 minutes they had changed a booking for no fee to 2021. With regard to my refund, RCI were able to tell me over the phone at exactly what stage the refund process was at, what card the monies would be returned to and by when. Could P&O able to do that? No, neither by phone or email.

 

I also disagree that the is little choice for those not willing to sail with P&O again. Admittedly if people only wish to sail from the UK then options are more limited, but this does not preclude lines such as MSC, Celebrity, Norwegian, RCI, Princess, Cunard and then the more boutique lines such as Oceania, Regent and Silversea.

 

You mention you would only sail MSC in the Yacht Club, then perhaps you could consider The Haven on Norwegian which again is the exclusive 'Ship within a Ship' concept similar to MSC Yacht Club. Celebrity (I assume you know this is part of the RCI group) has "The Retreat" the exclusive all inclusive suite experience and RCI do have the "Royal Suite" offering where there are Genies (butlers) with exclusive dining venues in addition to the other amenities included.

 As a lot of people say that P&O are more affordable, I did a comparison because I believe our NCL sailing in October will have to be cancelled, and RCI came out only £100 per person more expensive than P&O for a longer sailing (10 days as opposed to P&O Ventura 7 night) and only £50 pp more expensive than a shorter sailing on Iona. Having experienced Azura I know I'd rather sail RCI Anthem of the Seas than Ventura.

 

Overall, it comes down to personal choice which can be influenced by customer service, and therefore, we will not consider P&O in the future following this debacle, but with having 2 RCI, 1 Celebrity and 1 NCL in the pipeline you can see where our loyalty lies.

 

 

 

 

 

[Warrior Princess]

We have changed our Baltic from 31st May to next August, we have had no paperwork at all no refund of excursions paid for on credit card although on website our details have been updated. We had paid balance two weeks before we were advised not to travel and P&O have kept that as payment for next year. All it needs is admin to click a few keys on computer.

[grapau27]

20 minutes ago, peteukmcr said:

 

Firstly I must say just because I have received a refund I do not wish to appear self-satisfied (I am still awaiting refunds for other items from P&O) which primarily is the subject of this thread.

 

However, with regard to alternatives and your choice never to sail with Royal Caribbean (that is your choice obviously), I want to present another viewpoint as to why we've returned to Royal Caribbean for many cruises. It is their customer service, not just the amenities offered by the ships in their fleet. Have Royal Caribbean been perfect for all of our 23 sailings with them? No, but their customer service has proven to me that they care about their customers and all issues have been resolved promptly and in some cases with compensation (never requested). Contrary to what you may read by the 'loyal to Royal' brigade, they do value customer loyalty.

 

Admittedly these are difficult times, but even RCI managed to refund me within 26 days in April which is long after we started the process with P&O. I know that they have now extended their timescales for refunds to 45 days but it's still not 60 as being quoted by P&O with the constant excuses and changes to the goal posts (within 45 days, oh no that's working days etc). It is also possible to contact them easily by phone as I did (within 5 minutes on hold) and within 10 minutes they had changed a booking for no fee to 2021. With regard to my refund, RCI were able to tell me over the phone at exactly what stage the refund process was at, what card the monies would be returned to and by when. Could P&O able to do that? No, neither by phone or email.

 

I also disagree that the is little choice for those not willing to sail with P&O again. Admittedly if people only wish to sail from the UK then options are more limited, but this does not preclude lines such as MSC, Celebrity, Norwegian, RCI, Princess, Cunard and then the more boutique lines such as Oceania, Regent and Silversea.

 

You mention you would only sail MSC in the Yacht Club, then perhaps you could consider The Haven on Norwegian which again is the exclusive 'Ship within a Ship' concept similar to MSC Yacht Club. Celebrity (I assume you know this is part of the RCI group) has "The Retreat" the exclusive all inclusive suite experience and RCI do have the "Royal Suite" offering where there are Genies (butlers) with exclusive dining venues in addition to the other amenities included.

 As a lot of people say that P&O are more affordable, I did a comparison because I believe our NCL sailing in October will have to be cancelled, and RCI came out only £100 per person more expensive than P&O for a longer sailing (10 days as opposed to P&O Ventura 7 night) and only £50 pp more expensive than a shorter sailing on Iona. Having experienced Azura I know I'd rather sail RCI Anthem of the Seas than Ventura.

 

Overall, it comes down to personal choice which can be influenced by customer service, and therefore, we will not consider P&O in the future following this debacle, but with having 2 RCI, 1 Celebrity and 1 NCL in the pipeline you can see where our loyalty lies.

 

 

 

 

 

Excellent post.

Everything you say about RCL is true.

The suite experience is on a different level compared to P&O.

Our Diamond Plus benefits are fantastic too and why we sail predominantly on their ships.

Check in is quick for us whatever cabin type we sail in (Balcony cabin).

We still  sail P&O for a different experience usually a short 3-7 night cruise once a year.

[wowzz]

Pete - thanks for your in depth reply, plus Graham for your comments. I would be churlish not to reconsider my options after reading your posts.

Time for more research!

Thanks again

[Son of Anarchy]

11 hours ago, staygulf said:

It was certainly not a wind up. As I said, I decided it would be easier and quicker and less costly to go to court and then use bailiffs than to go down the winding up route. 

 

I look forward to seeing the low-loader hauling Britannia through the Dartford Tunnel when the baillifs deliver her to you.

[staygulf]

11 hours ago, wowzz said:

As a matter of interest,  how much  independence do we think P&O have in this whole refund scenario ? As far as I can see, Cunard,  Princess,  HAM are all behaving in much the same fashion,  dictated, I would suppose, by the finance department at Carnival USA .

Many of us are saying that we will not cruise with P&O again,  but, in  reality there are not that many options left.

Princess is not behaving in the same fashion. They refunded me within 15 days of my claim and I would hazard a guess that it’s the same staff in the same building seeing as how they’re all one company. 

[Snow Hill]

Remarkably my wife got through to P&O this morning no queue on the phone. It is day 45 for us, the email we had said refund would be with us within 45 days and last night my wife had noticed a discrepancy of £50 in our refund amount from what we had paid. It appeared that the the £50 we had paid for seat reservations on plane had not been included.

 

The agent on the line asked if we had filled in the seat reservation refund form, my wife said what form was that? The agent then completed the form on the form for her on the phone.

 

Asking where out refund was, my wife was told it was now up to 60 days before refund would be paid and the refund should be with us by 28 May, which is calendar not working days, so another 2 weeks to wait it seems.

 

My wife did complain that we had had no formal notification of the change to refund timescales and that communication from P&O was poor on that front, agent said would pass comments on. 

[terrierjohn]

15 hours ago, grapau27 said:

They can but they are more expensive to process so 1-3 days is the norm.

I move money by BACS in and out of savings and main bank, and to send birthday money to family and, dependant on where it is going, it can be there in hours with no extra charge. 

[bobstheboy]

9 minutes ago, staygulf said:

Princess is not behaving in the same fashion. They refunded me within 15 days of my claim and I would hazard a guess that it’s the same staff in the same building seeing as how they’re all one company. 

You were very fortunate to receive a refund from Princess so quickly, it's now 90 days and counting. 

 

They are not the same company as P&O, same Group but different company and staff, but I expect you knew that.

[staygulf]

20 minutes ago, bobstheboy said:

You were very fortunate to receive a refund from Princess so quickly, it's now 90 days and counting. 

 

They are not the same company as P&O, same Group but different company and staff, but I expect you knew that.

Wrong. Look at your contracts. They are just trading divisions of Carnival, not separate companies. Your cruise contract is with Carnival plc. But then I expect you knew that 

Edited May 13, 2020 by staygulf