US Crew stuck on ship

[DaveSJ711]

22 minutes ago, chengkp75 said:

Yes, the CDC no sail order applies only to cruise ships, but the USCG notice requiring an attestation of health, when entering every port, even if the ship has never left the US applies to every ship.  And, the decision by various states and cities to not allow crew ashore or crew changes applies to all ships.  My friend, I'm here and I've been there, and I definitely have the tee shirt, and have crew currently onboard who have been affected by these restrictions.

 

Don't be condescending ("my friend, I'm here and I've been there, and I definitely have the tee shirt").  I was simply pointing out that the CDC order doesn't apply to cargo ships.  You didn't make the point in your lengthy post (which dealt extensively with merchant shipping), and I wanted to make sure the point was understood.

Edited April 30, 2020 by DaveSJ711

[EscapeFromConnecticut]

    The cruise lines have taken some public relations hits over the years, but 2020 and 2021 are going to be beyond extraordinary. As litigation works its way through the system, you can only imagine what the crew and passenger depositions will look like.
 

https://www.fool.com/investing/2020/05/02/nothing-seems-to-go-right-for-carnival-royal-carib.aspx

[Himself]

This whole thing makes me sick.  This is all unjust!  The cruise lines are the "bad" guys.   Right now the Cruise lines are going over the whole world repatriating people but United States employees are not allowed back in their own country.  This is unjust.

It is not politically correct to say it but the virus stared in a city in China and not on a cruise ship.  When the virus started in Wuhan are domestic travel between Wuhan and other cities in China was forbidden but international flights were allowed into Wuhan.  Forgetting the Virus, if and office building with 1500 people and 200 get sick, no big deal  A cruise of 1500 has 20 sick people, they say the ships are dangerous.  I think the whole thing stinks.  The cruise industry is a victim of fake news.

 

[CruiserBruce]

29 minutes ago, Himself said:

This whole thing makes me sick.  This is all unjust!  The cruise lines are the "bad" guys.   Right now the Cruise lines are going over the whole world repatriating people but United States employees are not allowed back in their own country.  This is unjust.

It is not politically correct to say it but the virus stared in a city in China and not on a cruise ship.  When the virus started in Wuhan are domestic travel between Wuhan and other cities in China was forbidden but international flights were allowed into Wuhan.  Forgetting the Virus, if and office building with 1500 people and 200 get sick, no big deal  A cruise of 1500 has 20 sick people, they say the ships are dangerous.  I think the whole thing stinks.  The cruise industry is a victim of fake news.

 

Not to mention the near 2 million visitors to the US from Europe in February...which probably accounts for New York's situation.

[EscapeFromConnecticut]

The cruise industry is the victim of its own greed, mismanagement and short-sightedness.

 

[Tampa Girl]

1 hour ago, CruiserBruce said:

Not to mention the near 2 million visitors to the US from Europe in February...which probably accounts for New York's situation.

 

Not just "probably".  As I recall, the first case in NYC was discovered on a gentleman who had just stepped off the plane from Israel?  Am not positive of the country but I do remember that the press was saying that he had been to a country that had no COVID cases at the time.

[chipmaster]

On 4/30/2020 at 4:41 AM, bouhunter said:

https://www.msn.com/en-us/travel/news/american-cruise-workers-denied-disembarkation-treating-us-like-disease-vectors-instead-of-humans/ar-BB13o8AS?ocid=spartandhp

 

US citizens really shouldn't be treated like that.  Government should really help crew as much as they give lip service to protesters in State Government capitals.

 

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/05/03/us/coronavirus-cruise-ship-singer-barbados.html

 

 

 

Edited May 3, 2020 by chipmaster

[Tampa Girl]

1 hour ago, EscapeFromConnecticut said:

The cruise industry is the victim of its own greed, mismanagement and short-sightedness.

 

 

You have been unhappy with your cruises?  

[Himself]

1 hour ago, EscapeFromConnecticut said:

The cruise industry is the victim of its own greed, mismanagement and short-sightedness.

 

I respectfully disagree.

[DaveSJ711]

1 hour ago, Himself said:

This whole thing makes me sick.  This is all unjust!  The cruise lines are the "bad" guys.   Right now the Cruise lines are going over the whole world repatriating people but United States employees are not allowed back in their own country.  This is unjust.

It is not politically correct to say it but the virus stared in a city in China and not on a cruise ship.  When the virus started in Wuhan are domestic travel between Wuhan and other cities in China was forbidden but international flights were allowed into Wuhan.  Forgetting the Virus, if and office building with 1500 people and 200 get sick, no big deal  A cruise of 1500 has 20 sick people, they say the ships are dangerous.  I think the whole thing stinks.  The cruise industry is a victim of fake news.

 

 

On March 14 and on April 15, the CDC concluded that "cruise ship travel exacerbates the global spread of COVID-19."  Is that fake news, too?  https://www.federalregister.gov/documents/2020/04/15/2020-07930/no-sail-order-and-suspension-of-further-embarkation-notice-of-modification-and-extension-and-other 

 

Regarding repatriation, the CDC requires cruise lines to attest, in writing, that they've complied with CDC requirements for the safe disembarkation of crew.  Other lines have provided these attestations -- but Holland America and Carnival have not.  Blame them for the failure to repatriate their crew.

[Roger88]

In my humble opinion, all american citizens should be brought back no matter their medical status. They are our brothers and sisters and they should be within our medical service boundires. No one on Earth has a better medical system than us. It is also president's duty to make sure not a single american is left abroad. Hope the government will take all measures necessary to avoid such situations in the future

[bluesea321]

On 5/3/2020 at 2:11 PM, DaveSJ711 said:

Regarding repatriation, the CDC requires cruise lines to attest, in writing, that they've complied with CDC requirements for the safe disembarkation of crew.  Other lines have provided these attestations -- but Holland America and Carnival have not.

 

According to the Miami Herald, RCL has done an about face and will sign the attestation forms to repatriate crew.  Let's hope that this sets a precedent and CCL follows through with the same.  

[bluesea321]

On 4/30/2020 at 10:56 AM, npcl said:

This article explains what is going on:

https://www.miamiherald.com/news/business/tourism-cruises/article242380421.html

Cruise companies refuse CDC terms to repatriate crew, call transport ‘too expensive’

It appears that the cruise lines are trying to play hardball. Will be interesting to see who blinks first.  

Even though the cruise lines have previously sent some crew home in accordance with the terms, they are now not willing to sign the certifications.

 

Well, the CDC did not blink and CCL (HAL) finally agreed to sign the certifications and send the crew members home by private transport.  According to her Facebook page the subject crew member boarded a private plane two hours ago from California to Florida.  Other crew members from the East coast are also on board.  Glad to see that they are headed home.

[slidergirl]

On 5/3/2020 at 10:59 AM, Himself said:

This whole thing makes me sick.  This is all unjust!  The cruise lines are the "bad" guys.   Right now the Cruise lines are going over the whole world repatriating people but United States employees are not allowed back in their own country.  This is unjust.

It is not politically correct to say it but the virus stared in a city in China and not on a cruise ship.  When the virus started in Wuhan are domestic travel between Wuhan and other cities in China was forbidden but international flights were allowed into Wuhan.  Forgetting the Virus, if and office building with 1500 people and 200 get sick, no big deal  A cruise of 1500 has 20 sick people, they say the ships are dangerous.  I think the whole thing stinks.  The cruise industry is a victim of fake news.

 

Are you saying all those people on the Diamond and Ruby Princess ships were not ill and it was just fake reporting?   "Hello, I am Ms. Smith.  I realize we are out in the middle of the ocean, but I'd like to get of the ship now since we have an infection spreading through the ship."  

Being in an office building is different from a cruise ship. You're stuck onboard with may be 2 thousand others for days.  People in an office can go home.   Also, look at the Tysons meat processing plant right now 50% of their 2000 employee have now tested positive.  There is the invocation of the Defense Production Act which requires the plant to stay open.  Is that meat packing plant victim of fake news?   There are other incidents around the US where hundreds have been infected due to probably one asymptomatic person causing community spread.   Just like nursing homes, ships are places where you do not come and go, hence a more compacted environment to be infected.  

 

Nice to hear that finally HAL has decided to treat their US crew as they should be and signed the affirmation and the crew may now head home. 

[chengkp75]

Now that the HAL crew have been allowed to disembark, lets focus on the other US citizens, on US government vessels, in US ports, that are not even allowed off the ship to procure vitals like prescription medicines, yet have to watch as US Navy personnel, assigned to the same vessels, and contractors and shipyard workers freely walk on and off the ship.

 

https://news.usni.org/2020/04/30/civilian-mariners-file-grievance-over-military-sealift-command-covid-19-restrictions

 

https://www.npr.org/2020/04/30/847878423/civilian-mariners-say-strict-navy-coronavirus-restrictions-are-unfair

 

Just one small part, though a US centric one that seems to be popular here on CC, of the growing problem of ship's crews not being allowed to go home, at the rate of 100,000 every month.

[bluesea321]

58 minutes ago, chengkp75 said:

Now that the HAL crew have been allowed to disembark, lets focus on the other US citizens, on US government vessels, in US ports, that are not even allowed off the ship to procure vitals like prescription medicines, yet have to watch as US Navy personnel, assigned to the same vessels, and contractors and shipyard workers freely walk on and off the ship.

 

https://news.usni.org/2020/04/30/civilian-mariners-file-grievance-over-military-sealift-command-covid-19-restrictions

 

https://www.npr.org/2020/04/30/847878423/civilian-mariners-say-strict-navy-coronavirus-restrictions-are-unfair

 

Just one small part, though a US centric one that seems to be popular here on CC, of the growing problem of ship's crews not being allowed to go home, at the rate of 100,000 every month.

 

The underlined comments do not make sense:

"Adding to the frustration is that the MSC CIVMARs cannot leave the ship, but uniformed military personnel and contractors are coming and going from the ship. Though they are supposed to be following Navy and Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) guidelines such as wearing personal protective equipment and social distancing, multiple CIVMARs sent USNI News anonymous emails saying they felt they were being kept prisoner in what was supposed to be a clean bubble but which actually wasn’t a healthy environment due to the number of other people coming aboard every day."

 

 

 

[chengkp75]

8 minutes ago, bluesea321 said:

 

The underlined comments do not make sense:

"Adding to the frustration is that the MSC CIVMARs cannot leave the ship, but uniformed military personnel and contractors are coming and going from the ship. Though they are supposed to be following Navy and Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) guidelines such as wearing personal protective equipment and social distancing, multiple CIVMARs sent USNI News anonymous emails saying they felt they were being kept prisoner in what was supposed to be a clean bubble but which actually wasn’t a healthy environment due to the number of other people coming aboard every day."

 

 

 

They only make sense when you realize that MSC only controls the Civmars on the ship, and the restriction order was made by MSC.  The Naval personnel on the ship are under a different command, and therefore not subject to MSC orders.  I can tell you that a ship with limited contact with the outside world, as what MSC was trying to create, is a very safe environment.  I've been on a ship since the start of March, and we conducted business as usual between crew, since we were essentially quarantined and no one was symptomatic.  We have different protocols for dealing with folks that we deal with in ports, mainly keeping all shore personnel off the ship, and now that crew changes have started again, newly joining crew are fed separately, and must wear masks when outside their cabins. To have Naval personnel and contractors coming aboard without any restrictions, and to restrict the Civmars "in order to preserve their readiness" to keep their chance of infection down, is a fools errand.

[bluesea321]

10 minutes ago, chengkp75 said:

They only make sense when you realize that MSC only controls the Civmars on the ship, and the restriction order was made by MSC....

 

Yeap, I got that from reading the links.  What does not make sense is that preserving the so called "safe bubble" does not work if others are coming and going.

[Copper10-8]

Koningsdam was in L.A. (San Pedro) today (leaving as we speak) and yes, all U.S, crew, about 37 of them from various ships, plus 19 Canucks, were able to disembark and are (or will be shortly) on their way home from LAX

[CruiserBruce]

2 hours ago, Copper10-8 said:

Koningsdam was in L.A. (San Pedro) today (leaving as we speak) and yes, all U.S, crew, about 37 of them from various ships, plus 19 Canucks, were able to disembark and are (or will be shortly) on their way home from LAX

Are you loaning them your helo? 😁

[Copper10-8]

18 minutes ago, CruiserBruce said:

Are you loaning them your helo? 😁

 

[CruiserBruce]

1 minute ago, Copper10-8 said:

 

Hmmm....photoshopped? 😁😆😇

[Germancruiser]

Someone mentioned the cruise lines met with a lot of PR desasters over the last two years. I am sorry to say- so did the USA- and that goes for the last four or so years.

Cruise lines did neither ask for or experience a crisis like this. Same goes for the whole word I should say. I don´t envy the polititians these days. Whatever decison the make- it can either go this or that way.

Since cruise lines prepare some of their ships for cold lay off - even they do not expect that crusing will reasume anytime soon.

[Copper10-8]

43 minutes ago, CruiserBruce said:

Hmmm....photoshopped? 😁😆😇

 

LASD Air-5 (the S-58T long replaced since) at the Academy in East L.A. First fast-roping experience; an "attention-getter" 😉 

[chengkp75]

10 hours ago, bluesea321 said:

 

Yeap, I got that from reading the links.  What does not make sense is that preserving the so called "safe bubble" does not work if others are coming and going.

What's even more astounding is that the "gangway up" order does not apply to Civmars on MSC ships outside the US.  MSC, which has always had a hard time recruiting mariners, is afraid that with the ships being in a US port, by union contract the crew can give 24 hours notice and walk off the ship for good, and then MSC would be left short-handed.