2 metre rule changing to 1 metre rule? Good news?

[Presto2]

Re the 2m rule - we're keeping it when we go out and continuing the routines re showering etc when we've been at work / shopping etc. We'd rather be safe than sorry and it isn't causing us a problem at the moment. It must be a nightmare for the hospitality industry though and my heart goes out to those affected.

 

I think I would feel safer if I thought the rule was being changed based on scientific evidence that it is ok, but am guessing that it is more to do with being able to open more businesses and getting schools open. That worries me - especially when that R number is rising in some parts of the country and we have the Autumn / Flu Season to face yet

 

Not being cynical really ….

[daiB]

2 minutes ago, Harry Peterson said:

Conjecture as to what the government is considering.

But you made the title of the conversation 2m rule changing to 1m rule?

 

I simply said it is not happening before the end of term that’s 5 weeks away. Boris had to  Uturn on his claim to get all primary children back to school by July. Clearly indicating no change in the rule.

 

I am not sure of your stance. On the whole matter.

 

Of course eventually it will all go away but I have idea when that will be only not before 17th July.

[Polly1922]

How about a little humour.

Hope it is okay.

[Harry Peterson]

1 minute ago, daiB said:

But you made the title of the conversation 2m rule changing to 1m rule?

 

I simply said it is not happening before the end of term that’s 5 weeks away. Boris had to  Uturn on his claim to get all primary children back to school by July. Clearly indicating no change in the rule.

 

I am not sure of your stance. On the whole matter.

 

Of course eventually it will all go away but I have idea when that will be only not before 17th July.

Note the question mark in the title. It’s there for a purpose.

 

As to whether it’s 5 weeks off, 5 days off, or 5 months off, nobody knows. That IS conjecture.  But there’s nothing to say that the current rule won’t be ditched before 17 July. Only time will tell.

 

I don’t have a stance.  As I said earlier, I can see both sides of the argument, and there is no right answer.  🙂

[daiB]

Note the question mark in the title. It’s there for a purpose.
 
As to whether it’s 5 weeks off, 5 days off, or 5 months off, nobody knows. That IS conjecture.  But there’s nothing to say that the current rule won’t be ditched before 17 July. Only time will tell.
 
I don’t have a stance.  As I said earlier, I can see both sides of the argument, and there is no right answer.  [emoji846]

If there were any chance of schools going back Boris would jump at it. He has not he has Uturned not a comfortable position. That’s what tells me there will be no changes.

You may have noticed I have not been around lately as conjecture bores me.


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[grapau27]

16 minutes ago, Polly1922 said:

How about a little humour.

Hope it is okay.

Very funny.😂

[Harry Peterson]

12 minutes ago, daiB said:

 

If there were any chance of schools going back Boris would jump at it. He has not he has Uturned not a comfortable position. That’s what tells me there will be no changes.

You may have noticed I have not been around lately as conjecture bores me.


Sent from my iPad using Forums

 

I hadn’t noticed, but thanks for the input.  All views welcomed.

[grapau27]

9 minutes ago, Harry Peterson said:

I hadn’t noticed, but thanks for the input.  All views welcomed.

😂👍

[NoFlyGuy]

The thing that frustrates me most is the anomalies.

Earlier in this thread I mentioned Sweden - No real lockdown, Schools. bars and restaurants open, groups of up to 50 allowed to meet but faring a little better than the UK.

Then there's the case of Japan. We keep hearing test, test, test!

Japan - population 126 million, tests conducted 328,730, deaths 920.

UK - population 68 million, test conducted 6,434,713, deaths 41,481.

How to explain those statistics?

It's okay to have a consensus regarding the best course of action but I thought science was about peer testing theories and having to explain these anomalies. Not heard anyone from the science or media communities explain these yet.

[kalos]

1 hour ago, NoFlyGuy said:

The thing that frustrates me most is the anomalies.

Earlier in this thread I mentioned Sweden - No real lockdown, Schools. bars and restaurants open, groups of up to 50 allowed to meet but faring a little better than the UK.

Then there's the case of Japan. We keep hearing test, test, test!

Japan - population 126 million, tests conducted 328,730, deaths 920.

UK - population 68 million, test conducted 6,434,713, deaths 41,481.

How to explain those statistics?

It's okay to have a consensus regarding the best course of action but I thought science was about peer testing theories and having to explain these anomalies. Not heard anyone from the science or media communities explain these yet.

 

I think Sweden could have done a lot better when you compare the population of around 10.5 million to the 

UK 's over 68.8 million . They tried just sheltering the over 70's with poor results .

If you were to Google .."Sweden's lax COVID-19 response caused too many deaths, country's top epidemiologist."

It does not make good reading .

As for the best course of action ,last week a journalist was asking Professor Chris Whitty

"Do they compare peer results and can they say where we have gone wrong ?"

His response was they are cross checking data daily and if they find they need to alter things they do give that advice.

However he insists that we are still in the middle of a pandemic and to get a full view from beginning to end is the only way to get an accurate view based on science. 

I can understand it to a certain degree as if I was trying out a new car journey route and was asked half way ...

"is this a better way ?" Then I would prefer to give a better response on arrival.

To be fair Sweden , UK and others will look back and have a good lists of Do's and Don'ts .

 I fully get the things that frustrates you, me and a lot of others but we can take comfort in the figures are now falling .

 

Edited June 12, 2020 by kalos

[NoFlyGuy]

19 minutes ago, kalos said:

 

I think Sweden could have done a lot better when you compare the population of around 10.5 million to the 

UK 's over 68.8 million . They tried just sheltering the over 70's with poor results .

If you were to Google .."Sweden's lax COVID-19 response caused too many deaths, country's top epidemiologist."

It does not make good reading .

As for the best course of action ,last week a journalist was asking Professor Chris Whitty

"Do they compare peer results and can they say where we have gone wrong ?"

His response was they are cross checking data daily and if they find they need to alter things they do give that advice.

However he insists that we are still in the middle of a pandemic and to get a full view from beginning to end is the only way to get an accurate view based on science. 

I can understand it to a certain degree as if I was trying out a new car journey route and was asked half way ...

"is this a better way ?" Then I would prefer to give a better response on arrival.

To be fair Sweden , UK and others will look back and have a good lists of Do's and Don'ts .

 I fully get the things that frustrates you, me and a lot of others but we can take comfort in the figures are now falling .

 

 

I've never said that Sweden were doing well. I pointed out their death rate per head of population was below ours and they have done that whilst still educating their children and not destroying their economy to the extent that we have here in the UK and across much of the world. I suspect that when economic figures come out for both other major European countries and others across the world, it's going to make grim reading.

My other point was on testing. If mass testing is so important to control the virus ,why has Japan fared so well with barely any tests.

Surely these are legitimate questions.  Perhaps not for those of us who view and maybe post on this site, but at least for the scientists.

[majortom10]

Think a thing we must all take into account and is not to believe what we see on TV or read in newspapers/online as we dont know or whether to believe that all countries are telling either the truth about infections and deaths or are recording the same way in all countries.

[kalos]

24 minutes ago, NoFlyGuy said:

 

I've never said that Sweden were doing well. I pointed out their death rate per head of population was below ours and they have done that whilst still educating their children and not destroying their economy to the extent that we have here in the UK and across much of the world. I suspect that when economic figures come out for both other major European countries and others across the world, it's going to make grim reading.

My other point was on testing. If mass testing is so important to control the virus ,why has Japan fared so well with barely any tests.

Surely these are legitimate questions.  Perhaps not for those of us who view and maybe post on this site, but at least for the scientists.

Sorry if you thought I was saying that you said Sweden was doing well .

I started my post with ..I think Sweden could have done a lot better when you compare the population.

Just saying what I thought and just like you are asking about Japan faring well , we mere mortals will never know .

As you also say we have no answers but the likes of Professor Chris Whitty & Co ,should and will take other Countries Do's and Don'ts onboard . 

If you take note I had liked your post as I share some of your frustrations in not knowing things out of our control

but a lot of this as you say is for the scientists. All we can do is try to keep safe .

 

As finishing this post just spotted Major Tom's post which I fully agree with at the end of the day

we only get told what the powers that be want us to hear or read .

Edited June 12, 2020 by kalos

[NoFlyGuy]

8 minutes ago, kalos said:

Sorry if you thought I was saying that you said Sweden was doing well .

I started my post with ..I think Sweden could have done a lot better when you compare the population.

Just saying what I thought and just like you are asking about Japan faring well , we mere mortals will never know .

As you also say we have no answers but the likes of Professor Chris Whitty & Co ,should and will take other Countries 

Do's and Don'ts onboard . 

If you take note I had liked your post as I share some of your frustrations in not knowing things out of our control

but a lot of this as you say is for the scientists. All we can do is try to keep safe .

 

Hi kalos. appreciate you liking my post.

As you say keeping safe is important and I suppose we will all have different views on how to do that.

Sometimes the statistics don't make that easy whatever the consensus view.

 

[terrierjohn]

50 minutes ago, majortom10 said:

Think a thing we must all take into account and is not to believe what we see on TV or read in newspapers/online as we dont know or whether to believe that all countries are telling either the truth about infections and deaths or are recording the same way in all countries.

I agree, I suspect that Russia is massaging their stats so as not to look too bad, and many middle east and Asian countries will have far less robust statistic gathering systems than we do,

[Harry Peterson]

18 minutes ago, terrierjohn said:

I agree, I suspect that Russia is massaging their stats so as not to look too bad, and many middle east and Asian countries will have far less robust statistic gathering systems than we do,

Let's not forget, though, that our own figures are around 10,000 short if you look at the excess deaths calculations - and that the government statistics have already been criticised by the government's statistics watchdog.  Our figures certainly aren't reliable - and they're still refusing to give figures for the number of people tested, as against the number of tests carried out, because they're counting multiple tests on one person to boost the figures.

[wowzz]

Regarding schools reopening, the most nteresting statistic I read was that a child was more likely to be struck by lightening, than catch CV19 by attending school.

Obviously teachers will say  that they  may be at risk, but given that all our shop assistants,  mail people, bank staff etc have been working throughout the crisis, I really don't think they have a leg to stand on.

Open the schools tomorrow, there is absolutely no reason not to do so. 

[davecttr]

9 hours ago, Harry Peterson said:

Let's not forget, though, that our own figures are around 10,000 short if you look at the excess deaths calculations - and that the government statistics have already been criticised by the government's statistics watchdog.  Our figures certainly aren't reliable - and they're still refusing to give figures for the number of people tested, as against the number of tests carried out, because they're counting multiple tests on one person to boost the figures.

Was it reported somewhere that the figures at some point counted the standard swab test as two tests, one in your throat and one in your nose.

[wowzz]

Just now, davecttr said:

Was it reported somewhere that the figures at some point counted the standard swab test as two tests, one in your throat and one in your nose.

I recall reading that as well. And tests posted out are also counted, not tests completed.  

[davecttr]

9 hours ago, wowzz said:

Regarding schools reopening, the most nteresting statistic I read was that a child was more likely to be struck by lightening, than catch CV19 by attending school.

Obviously teachers will say  that they  may be at risk, but given that all our shop assistants,  mail people, bank staff etc have been working throughout the crisis, I really don't think they have a leg to stand on.

Open the schools tomorrow, there is absolutely no reason not to do so. 

Where are you going to fit all the kids, back to 30 plus per classroom? 

[Harry Peterson]

3 minutes ago, davecttr said:

Was it reported somewhere that the figures at some point counted the standard swab test as two tests, one in your throat and one in your nose.

Yes.  Exactly. And they still do. The much vaunted 100,000 tests carried out a day by the end of April has never actually been met - unless you include the deliberate double counting.

[wowzz]

2 minutes ago, davecttr said:

Where are you going to fit all the kids, back to 30 plus per classroom? 

Once the 2 metre rule is relaxed, sitting 30 or so side to side shouldn't be a problem.

[grapau27]

[terrierjohn]

10 hours ago, Harry Peterson said:

Let's not forget, though, that our own figures are around 10,000 short if you look at the excess deaths calculations - and that the government statistics have already been criticised by the government's statistics watchdog.  Our figures certainly aren't reliable - and they're still refusing to give figures for the number of people tested, as against the number of tests carried out, because they're counting multiple tests on one person to boost the figures.

Harry, they no longer need to boost the figures, the number of available tests is now well in excess of those needing them, and since those testing positive is now between 1000 and 2000 it is clear there are over a hundred thousand people a day who are incorrectly thinking they might have covid, that's a massive waste of testing resources.

[Presto2]

12 hours ago, wowzz said:

Regarding schools reopening, the most nteresting statistic I read was that a child was more likely to be struck by lightening, than catch CV19 by attending school.

Obviously teachers will say  that they  may be at risk, but given that all our shop assistants,  mail people, bank staff etc have been working throughout the crisis, I really don't think they have a leg to stand on.

Open the schools tomorrow, there is absolutely no reason not to do so. 

 

The schools have been open all through this crisis, all through the Easter and Half term breaks and bank holidays with people giving over and above as key workers in this fight. Many schools are open now and will continue to be open - many of them for children of all age groups over the coming weeks. It has only been through a lot of good will, stress and sleepless nights but it has happened as they have completely had to rearrange the way they operate and put in place a raft of measures to try to keep the children, staff and their school communities safe.

 

Teachers and staff are at risk and still going in - they are human beings and worried like everyone else. They too have vulnerable parents, children etc to care for at home yet are still turning up - as they have been throughout.

 

PS And many staff are having to stay at home as they are classed as vulnerable too, so not sure where the schools find all of the volunteers from to take their place even if there is space for the children.

 

.

 

Edited June 13, 2020 by Presto2