2 metre rule changing to 1 metre rule? Good news?

[wowzz]

10 minutes ago, Harry Peterson said:

Some interesting observations here:
 

https://www.ft.com/content/2418ff87-1d41-41b5-b638-38f5164a2e94?xtor=ES-208-[32877_NEWS_NLB_ACT_Wk24_Thurs_11_jun]-20200611-[Financial+Times]

Interesting. As well as Eddie's comments about cruising and flying, it also indicates that there is no real benefit in wearing a mask outside.

[davecttr]

Reduce to 1 metre, as written elsewhere we might as well cuddle each other given the distance 'creep' you see around you. After a few beers common sense goes out the window. What about indoors? no breeze to blow the little particles away.

[Eddie99]

Except wearing it full time is better than putting it on and off if you are, eg, going into shops/offices/public transport etc

 

Life gets very complicated ...

[wowzz]

22 minutes ago, Eddie99 said:

Except wearing it full time is better than putting it on and off if you are, eg, going into shops/offices/public transport etc

 

Life gets very complicated ...

True.

Edited June 11, 2020 by wowzz

[terrierjohn]

3 hours ago, zap99 said:

At some point people need to be able to assess the risk for themselves and make their own decisions. If it is ok to go and visit Aunty Doris and stay overnight, why is it not ok to go to yourself contained holiday accommodation for a few nights. 2m , or 1m will be a political call. The experts will never put their names to anything that may increase risk, even if only marginally.

If you take all your own food to your holiday accommodation and do not visit any shops while there, that might be OK, but I suspect many would want to stretch the rules a lot further. And of course the accommodation would need a deep clean and disinfection before and after your visit, whereas Auntie Doris's would not.

[KnowTheScore]

The 2m rule was always an utter farce and the government and so-called "experts" have always known it.  I deem it little more than a psychological technique to make the masses comply with something and think they are doing something good.

 

Scientifically it has been known for months that the aerosol droplets from coughs and sneezes travel up to 8m and sometimes further depending on air currents.  It is also known that fine aerosol droplets can hang in the air for up to 3 hours so no amount of social distancing will protect you from this.

 

At the same time the government and experts knew that if people wore masks or other face coverings you could reduce the spread of your exhaled germs VERY significantly, in the case of a simply bandana by a factor of 36.

 

Yet they lied to the public and told them that there was no benefit in the public wearing masks, but that they would magically work and provide benefit to NHS workers.

 

The entire situation is and has been an utter farcical shambles and a national scandal imho.

 

The government has since done a complete U-Turn on the issue of wearing masks and Boris stood up on live TV in the HoC and stated that masks ARE beneficial in preventing spread of the virus.   Just outrageous.

 

They will now do a similar U-Turn on social distancing by the look of it, another farcical step, as if 1m or 2m really made the slightest bit of difference when coughs and sneezes can travel 8m or more and when droplets can hang in the air for 3 hours.

 

They have treated the UK public as utter fools imo and continue to do so

 

Bottom line, social distancing destroys business and its ability to provide products and services. Accordingly it has to be eradicated in a way that the public will accept without them thinking it's all been a farce from the outset.

 

 

[AndyMichelle]

This is all very well, but what am I supposed to do with all these 2m banners, mats, window stickers etc that I was advised to invest in as social distancing was here to stay? 😊

It's staying 2m in my premises... 

Andy 

[Harry Peterson]

15 minutes ago, AndyMichelle said:

This is all very well, but what am I supposed to do with all these 2m banners, mats, window stickers etc that I was advised to invest in as social distancing was here to stay? 😊

It's staying 2m in my premises... 

Andy 

Shouldn't be a problem, Andy - just cut them in half.  Twice as many for the same outlay!  😉

 

Harry

[pete14]

37 minutes ago, AndyMichelle said:

This is all very well, but what am I supposed to do with all these 2m banners, mats, window stickers etc that I was advised to invest in as social distancing was here to stay? 😊

It's staying 2m in my premises... 

Andy 

Take them with you on your next cruise and surround yourself with them when at the bar or in the buffet

[NoFlyGuy]

1 hour ago, KnowTheScore said:

The 2m rule was always an utter farce and the government and so-called "experts" have always known it.  I deem it little more than a psychological technique to make the masses comply with something and think they are doing something good.

 

Scientifically it has been known for months that the aerosol droplets from coughs and sneezes travel up to 8m and sometimes further depending on air currents.  It is also known that fine aerosol droplets can hang in the air for up to 3 hours so no amount of social distancing will protect you from this.

 

At the same time the government and experts knew that if people wore masks or other face coverings you could reduce the spread of your exhaled germs VERY significantly, in the case of a simply bandana by a factor of 36.

 

Yet they lied to the public and told them that there was no benefit in the public wearing masks, but that they would magically work and provide benefit to NHS workers.

 

The entire situation is and has been an utter farcical shambles and a national scandal imho.

 

The government has since done a complete U-Turn on the issue of wearing masks and Boris stood up on live TV in the HoC and stated that masks ARE beneficial in preventing spread of the virus.   Just outrageous.

 

They will now do a similar U-Turn on social distancing by the look of it, another farcical step, as if 1m or 2m really made the slightest bit of difference when coughs and sneezes can travel 8m or more and when droplets can hang in the air for 3 hours.

 

They have treated the UK public as utter fools imo and continue to do so

 

Bottom line, social distancing destroys business and its ability to provide products and services. Accordingly it has to be eradicated in a way that the public will accept without them thinking it's all been a farce from the outset.

 

 

 

Really?

Firstly it's the WHO who keep seeming to change their guidance. Masks are good, masks make no real difference. Two metres is right now, now it's one metre is ok. Yes we are all learning but the science isn't exact.

You quote 8 metres as how far droplets can be spread from quoting 'some authorities'. So do you believe that we should have an 8 metre distancing rule? If not, why quote that authority. What do you want? 1 metre, 1.5 metres, 2 metres or 8 metres or any other distance that some scientist or medic advises.

It's patently obvious to me that the closer you get to someone who has the virus the more likely it is you will catch it. 

Some countries have a one metre rule. others 1.5 and yet others, like us, two metres. We need to remember that although reported infection rates and deaths are falling in the UK, and that I note with some relief, we still are reporting more than 1000 new infections every day.

Hard though it is, do we really want to start to get up 'close and comfortable' with others with that level of infection?  

 

[AndyMichelle]

2 hours ago, KnowTheScore said:

 

 

Bottom line, social distancing destroys business and its ability to provide products and services. Accordingly it has to be eradicated in a way that the public will accept without them thinking it's all been a farce from the outset.

 

 

Your opinions and views are summed up perfectly in this last sentence. 

I never understand why you need a thousand words on every post, the message is the same. 

Andy 

 

[john watson]

Does anyone have news about the tiger resident in the New York zoo that was reported positive to the virus?  That was a close thing any zoo visitor could have stroked him without realising and caught a serious infection without warning if they had not announced it. Did he recover?

 

Regards John

 

 

[KnowTheScore]

1 hour ago, NoFlyGuy said:

 

Really?

Firstly it's the WHO who keep seeming to change their guidance. Masks are good, masks make no real difference.

 

The government along with its pile of so-called "experts" has also repeatedly told the public that masks were not beneficial for the public.  Both the WHO and government have lied in order to stop the public buying PPE because there was a scandalous shortage of it ostensibly because past government had failed to maintain the stockpiles.  I could cite numerous gov't statements with sources but it's academic.  They lied to the public to protect their positions regarding PPE.  How many died because they were unable to give us the truth and tell us all to wear masks?

 

 

1 hour ago, NoFlyGuy said:

Yes we are all learning but the science isn't exact.

 

The science knew that mask wearing would significantly reduce the spread of the virus.  It's therefore scandalous that the UK public were not instructed to wear masks when out and about.

 

 

1 hour ago, NoFlyGuy said:

You quote 8 metres as how far droplets can be spread from quoting 'some authorities'. So do you believe that we should have an 8 metre distancing rule? If not, why quote that authority. What do you want? 1 metre, 1.5 metres, 2 metres or 8 metres or any other distance that some scientist or medic advises.

 

First what I want and what a public needs during a pandemic is the TRUTH and clear unambiguous guidelines.  We got neither.

 

The social distancing rule was always a complete farce and nothing more than a psychological trick imho.  What we should have had from the outset was mandatory mask wearing in public to stop incubating people spreading virus to others in supermarkets, stores, garages and elsewhere.   Even now they are only mandating masks on public transport.

 

 

1 hour ago, NoFlyGuy said:

It's patently obvious to me that the closer you get to someone who has the virus the more likely it is you will catch it. 

 

 

If people are wearing masks then I' much less worried about distance.   Without masks, any distance is pretty much a problem for the reasons given in prev post

 

 

[terrierjohn]

21 minutes ago, KnowTheScore said:

 

The government along with its pile of so-called "experts" has also repeatedly told the public that masks were not beneficial for the public.  Both the WHO and government have lied in order to stop the public buying PPE because there was a scandalous shortage of it ostensibly because past government had failed to maintain the stockpiles.  I could cite numerous gov't statements with sources but it's academic.  They lied to the public to protect their positions regarding PPE.  How many died because they were unable to give us the truth and tell us all to wear masks?

 

 

 

The science knew that mask wearing would significantly reduce the spread of the virus.  It's therefore scandalous that the UK public were not instructed to wear masks when out and about.

 

 

 

First what I want and what a public needs during a pandemic is the TRUTH and clear unambiguous guidelines.  We got neither.

 

The social distancing rule was always a complete farce and nothing more than a psychological trick imho.  What we should have had from the outset was mandatory mask wearing in public to stop incubating people spreading virus to others in supermarkets, stores, garages and elsewhere.   Even now they are only mandating masks on public transport.

 

 

 

If people are wearing masks then I' much less worried about distance.   Without masks, any distance is pretty much a problem for the reasons given in prev post

 

 

Masks, masks masks, face coverings, even the WHO only seem concerned with masks in crowded places and mainly indoors, which is what our govt now advise.

Prior to this we were all being asked to stay home and only shop for essentials and go out only for exercise, and in the open air and keep our distance.  In these circumstances I doubt that masks would have had any impact whatsoever on the spread of the virus, unless perhaps your experts are little green men from Mars?

[wowzz]

4 hours ago, KnowTheScore said:

It is also known that fine aerosol droplets can hang in the air for up to 3 hours so no amount of social distancing will protect you from this.

Can you please provide your evidence for this.

[wowzz]

32 minutes ago, KnowTheScore said:

It's therefore scandalous that the UK public were not instructed to wear masks when out and about.

No need to wear masks in the open air because numerous scientific studies show that the viral loads quickly dissipates in the open air. See the article from The Lancet that I posted earlier.

You do seem to love throwing out random assertions with no citations.

Edited June 11, 2020 by wowzz

[davecttr]

I rely on public transport as I don't own a car and have destroyed numerous handkerchiefs in 4 vain attempts to make my own face covering. Checked online and Lloyds pharmacy had boxes of 50 for less than £33. Ordered a box on Tuesday morning and it arrived this afternoon. Triple layer etc etc, now I can go on the bus next week. Fits my face easily. I reckon the supply of masks should be easier as they are probably now making them by the billion.

[AndyMichelle]

5 hours ago, davecttr said:

I rely on public transport as I don't own a car and have destroyed numerous handkerchiefs in 4 vain attempts to make my own face covering. Checked online and Lloyds pharmacy had boxes of 50 for less than £33. Ordered a box on Tuesday morning and it arrived this afternoon. Triple layer etc etc, now I can go on the bus next week. Fits my face easily. I reckon the supply of masks should be easier as they are probably now making them by the billion.

They are everywhere now Dave at various prices. 

Some are still trying to charge £3 each when they were less than 30p before lockdown. 

In this climate, you paid a fair price. 

Enjoy the bus. 

Andy 

[brian1]

Thing is all these measures have to be enforced together.Lockdown here meant lockdown,we were not allowed to even leave our commune (town or village) without a valid reason and if stopped after shopping outside this zone if you didn't show the receipt it was a 300 euro fine.Cross region (county) travel was a no no.The Carabinieri (blokes with big red stripe down their trousers,carrying a red lollipop and a bloody great machine gun) had roadblocks at every border.If a town had an increase in infection it became a red zone which was a curfue with roadblocks at every entry until the infection rate eased."Dirty Dom" wouldn't have got as far as the Archway Rd end of the A1 let alone the Durham end. Calabrian citizens that worked and studied in the North were stuck there with no job or money for at least 2 months and when they were allowed back they had be tested and quarantine.Northern tourists are allowed now,so watch this space,I think it will be ok,cheers Brian.

[kalos]

3 hours ago, brian1 said:

Lockdown here meant lockdown,we were not allowed to even leave our commune (town or village) without a valid reason and if stopped after shopping outside this zone if you didn't show the receipt it was a 300 euro fine.Cross region (county) travel was a no no.

I dread to think what it would be like over there if your had followed the UK's path.

As seen in recent weeks some of our lot would go to Durham,swamp the beaches and country parks.

Then some just say "They all lie to us " as a get out ,to justify their actions .

Stupid comments like "They should have been straight with us from the start."

That's for a virus  we new nothing about.They are still learning with each day that passes .

Having said that I just wish our country had followed a few methods your had over there Brian .

[Harry Peterson]

3 hours ago, brian1 said:

Thing is all these measures have to be enforced together.Lockdown here meant lockdown,we were not allowed to even leave our commune (town or village) without a valid reason and if stopped after shopping outside this zone if you didn't show the receipt it was a 300 euro fine.Cross region (county) travel was a no no.The Carabinieri (blokes with big red stripe down their trousers,carrying a red lollipop and a bloody great machine gun) had roadblocks at every border.If a town had an increase in infection it became a red zone which was a curfue with roadblocks at every entry until the infection rate eased."Dirty Dom" wouldn't have got as far as the Archway Rd end of the A1 let alone the Durham end. Calabrian citizens that worked and studied in the North were stuck there with no job or money for at least 2 months and when they were allowed back they had be tested and quarantine.Northern tourists are allowed now,so watch this space,I think it will be ok,cheers Brian.

Italy was giving our government warnings well before our lockdown that we needed to take immediate action.  You'll remember what was going on in Italian hospitals at that time.

 

Unfortunately, our Prime Minister chose to concentrate on other things and no heed was taken of the warnings from Italy.  We now know that if we'd locked down even one week sooner, thousands of lives would have been saved.  Two weeks earlier -even more.

 

More and more people realise that now, which is why his popularity has plummeted recently.  Our government now has one of the lowest approval ratings in the world.  Fighting this virus requires trust in governments, and ours has lost it.

[NoFlyGuy]

12 minutes ago, Harry Peterson said:

Italy was giving our government warnings well before our lockdown that we needed to take immediate action.  You'll remember what was going on in Italian hospitals at that time.

 

Unfortunately, our Prime Minister chose to concentrate on other things and no heed was taken of the warnings from Italy.  We now know that if we'd locked down even one week sooner, thousands of lives would have been saved.  Two weeks earlier -even more.

 

More and more people realise that now, which is why his popularity has plummeted recently.  Our government now has one of the lowest approval ratings in the world.  Fighting this virus requires trust in governments, and ours has lost it.

 

Sweden hasn't been in a lock down worthy of the name.

So why isn't their situation far worse than ours? 

[Harry Peterson]

2 minutes ago, NoFlyGuy said:

 

Sweden hasn't been in a lock down worthy of the name.

So why isn't their situation far worse than ours? 

They now accept that they got it wrong.  Our government is still refusing to accept that it failed us.  We now have the fourth highest death rate per capita in the entire world, and the OECD said yesterday that our economic position is probably the worst among leading nations.

 

This has been disastrously handled in the UK.

[davecttr]

Just had a thought. Do people think 2 metres or 1 metre means this or this

 

/me/_____2m_____/you/

or

/middle of me/____2m____/middle of you/

 

The answer is the first one, a 2m GAP between your bodies. This is important especially for a 1m rule and I wonder how many distance markings out there have got it wrong?

[brian1]

12 minutes ago, davecttr said:

Just had a thought. Do people think 2 metres or 1 metre means this or this

 

/me/_____2m_____/you/

or

/middle of me/____2m____/middle of you/

 

The answer is the first one, a 2m GAP between your bodies. This is important especially for a 1m rule and I wonder how many distance markings out there have got it wrong?

If you're a fat bloke like I was (just lost 3 stone) the second one would be no good cos my belly would still be touching you,lol.