CLIA puts hold on cruising from USA until September 15th

[C-Dragons]

12 minutes ago, verizon said:

We have the smartest people in the world also the most stubborn people on earth.

Refused to wear masks.

Not us. 😉

[excitedofharpenden]

1 hour ago, verizon said:

We have the smartest people in the world also the most stubborn people on earth.

Refused to wear masks.

You are so right. It's a total joke here I'm afraid. There are many who think this thing is gone and carrying on as if everything is normal. A friend of mine is just getting over Covid-19 that she caught 5 weeks ago. She works from home and only goes out when it's essential like food shopping. There is only one place she thinks she could have caught it. The supermarket. She is still quite breathless. 

 

Phil 

[BigAl94]

Bad news from Germany https://news.sky.com/story/coronavirus-germanys-r-number-rockets-again-from-1-79-to-2-88-12012143

[cangelmd]

9 hours ago, ABoatNerd said:

 

OceanCruise - this is totally important information.

 

I have sent this to Canadian newspapers and media to ensure the potential issue of overstating the virus cases gets out to the public.

 

Thanks for this great gift!

 

9 hours ago, OceanCruise said:

From CDC:

"A positive test result shows you may have antibodies from an infection with the virus that causes COVID-19, or possibly from infection with a related virus from the same family of viruses (called coronavirus), such as one that causes the common cold. "

https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/testing/serology-overview.html

Perhaps this is why numbers appear to be increasing as states like Florida upped their antibody tests starting in May. 

 

Sorry, no, there was a bit of a scandal in my world about 3 weeks ago when it came to light that some states were reporting some antibody tests with the PCR tests. A number of states had to clean up and resubmit data. It should be as clean as possible now. The rates you see in various trackers are based on PCR tests only.

 

As for cross-reaction with other Coronaviruses, which is what “cold viruses” is referring to, no reputable lab should be using those rapid tests at this point, and the FDA has pulled some of the worst ones off the market.

 

No the bump is real, and it is due to opening the economy and people going out WITHOUT WEARING MASKS. Mask wearing is not a political statement or an infringement of liberty. It is a practice that is rapidly developing a solid body of supporting scientific evidence that shows masks prevent transmission. 
In my city, we are on the second blip of a wave, unlike most of our state which is just now getting true community spread. What we are seeing in this second blip is cautiously positive - positive cases are younger, and present a little earlier and our hospitizations are up from our low, but not not as high as before. The virus is devastating to nursing home patients and causes sporadic severe illness in others - particularly the obese. The big unknown is the death and severe illness rate in older adults who are healthy enough to live in their own homes.

Edited June 21, 2020 by cangelmd

[cangelmd]

8 hours ago, TeeRick said:

To your point--

I had a COVID-19 antibody test from Labcorp this past week.  Here is one statement in their standard results letter.

 

"Positive results may be due to past or present infection with non-SARS-CoV-2
coronavirus strains, such as coronavirus HKU1, NL63, OC43, or 229E."

Did they test IgG and IgM both? They have got to stop using that combined test!

The Abbott IgG doesn’t give any info about current infection, but has been tested against and found to be negative for cross-reacting Abs. Another reason they may leave that caveat in the letter is that the sample size for other strains of coronavirus was super small - it’s hard to get those documented sera.

[cangelmd]

5 hours ago, OceanCruise said:

Yes, hospitalizations and deaths are the real indicators. Keep in mind more people are finally able to go to the hosital for their elective procedures (like hip replacements) and they test everyone there for Covid. Is a recent spike in hospitalizations actually due to Covid or perhaps just more positive antibody tests that could indicate the person only has the common cold? I feel like the media is terrorizing people with their constant reporting of positive test numbers 24 hours a day. This is a good article that shows how the numbers can be very misleading. What numbers are governors and mayors really using as a basis for mitigation policies?

https://www.theatlantic.com/health/archive/2020/05/cdc-and-states-are-misreporting-covid-19-test-data-pennsylvania-georgia-texas/611935/

I agree that the media is making this worse because they want clicks and eyes on their content, so they purposefully pick out the most screaming headlines.

BUT, when you look at the CDC data, or trackers like Johns Hopkins, they use data that the state public health depts submit to CDC, and that data is only PCR testing. Now mistakes are made, but since the issues a few weeks ago, the data is as clean as the state Dept can make it.

 

The problem with that antibody study the Sun-Sentinel was reporting with the 4.4% positive rate is that it reflects Florida as it was in April. The reason we are worried is that that number is so low. The PCR data reflects what opening has done.

 

The numbers aren’t particularly off, but the outcome may not be as dire as in NYC.

[TeeRick]

15 hours ago, cangelmd said:

Did they test IgG and IgM both? They have got to stop using that combined test!

The Abbott IgG doesn’t give any info about current infection, but has been tested against and found to be negative for cross-reacting Abs. Another reason they may leave that caveat in the letter is that the sample size for other strains of coronavirus was super small - it’s hard to get those documented sera.

The test was from Labcorp which uses the Abbott hi throughput analyzer and it is highly accurate.  It only tested for IgG which is what I wanted.  I was concerned since I cruised back in January (S. America on Eclipse) and my wife and I both had a severe cold with many of the COVID symptoms.  There was no testing back then.  But I was negative.  So I did not have SARS-CoV-2 IgG antibodies because I was not infected or they were no longer circulating at detectable levels after 5 months.  IgM occurs first then a switchover to IgG after about two weeks.  If anybody wants the Labcorp test it is an easy sign up on their web site and costs just $10.  Results in 24 hours.  

[TeeRick]

15 hours ago, cangelmd said:

 

Sorry, no, there was a bit of a scandal in my world about 3 weeks ago when it came to light that some states were reporting some antibody tests with the PCR tests. A number of states had to clean up and resubmit data. It should be as clean as possible now. The rates you see in various trackers are based on PCR tests only.

 

As for cross-reaction with other Coronaviruses, which is what “cold viruses” is referring to, no reputable lab should be using those rapid tests at this point, and the FDA has pulled some of the worst ones off the market.

 

No the bump is real, and it is due to opening the economy and people going out WITHOUT WEARING MASKS. Mask wearing is not a political statement or an infringement of liberty. It is a practice that is rapidly developing a solid body of supporting scientific evidence that shows masks prevent transmission. 
In my city, we are on the second blip of a wave, unlike most of our state which is just now getting true community spread. What we are seeing in this second blip is cautiously positive - positive cases are younger, and present a little earlier and our hospitizations are up from our low, but not not as high as before. The virus is devastating to nursing home patients and causes sporadic severe illness in others - particularly the obese. The big unknown is the death and severe illness rate in older adults who are healthy enough to live in their own homes.

I can say truthfully that my state (PA) took it very seriously since early March.  Lockdown and mask wearing with what I can see was highly compliant.  And it still is.  My county outside of Philadelphia this week will transition to the green phase of our state re-opening plan which still requires masks.  But our numbers are really low now.  Hoping that people will stick to the plan as it has definitely worked here.  Agree that it is not about infringements of rights- just common sense and courtesy to others around you.

[Ride-The-Waves]

15 hours ago, cangelmd said:

I agree that the media is making this worse because they want clicks and eyes on their content, so they purposefully pick out the most screaming headlines.

BUT, when you look at the CDC data, or trackers like Johns Hopkins, they use data that the state public health depts submit to CDC, and that data is only PCR testing. Now mistakes are made, but since the issues a few weeks ago, the data is as clean as the state Dept can make it.

 

The problem with that antibody study the Sun-Sentinel was reporting with the 4.4% positive rate is that it reflects Florida as it was in April. The reason we are worried is that that number is so low. The PCR data reflects what opening has done.

 

The numbers aren’t particularly off, but the outcome may not be as dire as in NYC.

Yep.  All that reporting on infection rates and total numbers is making things worse.  What we really need is to stop all testing, all reporting, all discussion of COVID-19 and everyone will be happy and safe.

 

Masks work.  Two recent cases show the transmit-ability: the one where the 16 girls dined at a restaurant without masks and all 16, plus 2 servers, caught the virus and the other where everyone in a beauty parlor wore masks and no one came down with the virus while other nearby business where customers did not wear masks were covens of infection.  Masks and social distancing work.

 

Live in Florida and the opening up of bars and beaches has now led to the highest infection rate, and climbing, since the start of the pandemic.  And, Florida has been undercounting infection for political reasons after firing the state's virologist for refusing to cook the numbers - see first sentence.  Florida is now in double jeopardy - the virus is reaching into increasingly rural areas as the state pushes reopening and the "second wave" fostered by people at bars and beaches is kicking in.

 

All, this, and many on CC are chomping at the bit to travel to Miami and Port Everglades, two of the highest infection locales, to board ships.

[TeeRick]

It is frightening about FL with their elderly population at great risk.  

[ECCruise]

Well, the rolling cancellations continue.

Carnival just announced cancellations of all sailings until October 1st.

[wrk2cruise]

From the Carnival web site.  I know this is Carnival but I also know that we Celebrity cruisers are interested in what all the lines are doing.

 

• All San Francisco sailings through 2020

• All Carnival Sunrise sailings through and including October 19, 2020

• All Carnival Legend sailings through and including October 30, 2020

• All Carnival Radiance sailings through and including November 1, 2020

• All Carnival Spirit Alaska, Hawaii, & Trans-Pacific sailings through and including October 6, 2020

• All Other Ships sailings through and including September 30, 2020

[cangelmd]

1 hour ago, TeeRick said:

The test was from Labcorp which uses the Abbott hi throughput analyzer and it is highly accurate.  It only tested for IgG which is what I wanted.  I was concerned since I cruised back in January (S. America on Eclipse) and my wife and I both had a severe cold with many of the COVID symptoms.  There was no testing back then.  But I was negative.  So I did not have SARS-CoV-2 IgG antibodies because I was not infected or they were no longer circulating at detectable levels after 5 months.  IgM occurs first then a switchover to IgG after about two weeks.  If anybody wants the Labcorp test it is an easy sign up on their web site and costs just $10.  Results in 24 hours.  

That is the test we are running and it is as accurate as it could be. They have not had a significant update since release, so I think it really does not cross react with the milder virus strains.

According to the call we had with one of the developers at Abbott, they are working on the neutralizing Ab tests this summer, and may tweak the test after that. No one knows how long the Abs will last.

I was on Edge over Valentines, so just at the beginning, my IgG was negative in late April, but neither one of us has had anything other than normal springtime sniffles, no coughs, no sneezes.

People ask me all the time “I was sick over such and such, I know I had it”, so far the only one of those people around here who ever tested positive, was from late February, and a clear exposure to another documented case.

[cangelmd]

22 minutes ago, wrk2cruise said:

From the Carnival web site.  I know this is Carnival but I also know that we Celebrity cruisers are interested in what all the lines are doing.

 

• All San Francisco sailings through 2020

• All Carnival Sunrise sailings through and including October 19, 2020

• All Carnival Legend sailings through and including October 30, 2020

• All Carnival Radiance sailings through and including November 1, 2020

• All Carnival Spirit Alaska, Hawaii, & Trans-Pacific sailings through and including October 6, 2020

• All Other Ships sailings through and including September 30, 2020

Not as familiar with Carnival, are those specific ships older? Or is related to their normal ports? I ask partly because we are home port for one of the oldest Carnival ships. Before Covid, Carnival had announced they were sending a “new” old ship to our port in 2021-22 - now the city’s worried we will lose ship entirely.

[pumpkin 11]

25 minutes ago, cangelmd said:

Not as familiar with Carnival, are those specific ships older? Or is related to their normal ports? I ask partly because we are home port for one of the oldest Carnival ships. Before Covid, Carnival had announced they were sending a “new” old ship to our port in 2021-22 - now the city’s worried we will lose ship entirely.

They're not the fantasy old ones. Pretty middle aged.

[grayjay]

20 hours ago, BigAl94 said:

Bad news from Germany https://news.sky.com/story/coronavirus-germanys-r-number-rockets-again-from-1-79-to-2-88-12012143

This is disturbing news - on the other hand, this number is fluctuating wildly at the moment because of severe outbreaks in SOME hotspots like several meat factories and adjoining houses and apartments where the crowded living conditions for the workers let the virus attack easily , plus some outbreaks with superspreaders in the party scene or apartment housing with crowds of people who deemed both masks and social distancing absolutely unnecessary and are taught the hard way.

There might be problems ahead though with the re-opening of schools, restaurants etc., but right now the situation in most regions here in Germany are really good, with no infections or up to 3 per capita/100.000 inhabitants in the last weeks.

I'm still very pessimistic about the outlook for the cruise industry though,  even if we'd simply LOVE to book - our last cruise was in December. All the others for this year fell through.

[pumpkin 11]

9 minutes ago, grayjay said:

This is disturbing news - on the other hand, this number is fluctuating wildly at the moment because of severe outbreaks in SOME hotspots like several meat factories and adjoining houses and apartments where the crowded living conditions for the workers let the virus attack easily , plus some outbreaks with superspreaders in the party scene or apartment housing with crowds of people who deemed both masks and social distancing absolutely unnecessary and are taught the hard way.

There might be problems ahead though with the re-opening of schools, restaurants etc., but right now the situation in most regions here in Germany are really good, with no infections or up to 3 per capita/100.000 inhabitants in the last weeks.

I'm still very pessimistic about the outlook for the cruise industry though,  even if we'd simply LOVE to book - our last cruise was in December. All the others for this year fell through.

Cases are up but deaths in the USA are pretty steady, despite what the headlines are trying to report.

[TeeRick]

22 hours ago, cangelmd said:

That is the test we are running and it is as accurate as it could be. They have not had a significant update since release, so I think it really does not cross react with the milder virus strains.

According to the call we had with one of the developers at Abbott, they are working on the neutralizing Ab tests this summer, and may tweak the test after that. No one knows how long the Abs will last.

I was on Edge over Valentines, so just at the beginning, my IgG was negative in late April, but neither one of us has had anything other than normal springtime sniffles, no coughs, no sneezes.

People ask me all the time “I was sick over such and such, I know I had it”, so far the only one of those people around here who ever tested positive, was from late February, and a clear exposure to another documented case.

It might not be all about how long circulating antibodies or neutralizing antibodies will last.  It is more about the response of the immune system to kick into high gear and respond quickly when it sees the antigen again.

[rachiem]

Cancellations are globally now

[npcl]

On 6/22/2020 at 6:17 AM, Ride-The-Waves said:

Yep.  All that reporting on infection rates and total numbers is making things worse.  What we really need is to stop all testing, all reporting, all discussion of COVID-19 and everyone will be happy and safe.

 

Masks work.  Two recent cases show the transmit-ability: the one where the 16 girls dined at a restaurant without masks and all 16, plus 2 servers, caught the virus and the other where everyone in a beauty parlor wore masks and no one came down with the virus while other nearby business where customers did not wear masks were covens of infection.  Masks and social distancing work.

 

Live in Florida and the opening up of bars and beaches has now led to the highest infection rate, and climbing, since the start of the pandemic.  And, Florida has been undercounting infection for political reasons after firing the state's virologist for refusing to cook the numbers - see first sentence.  Florida is now in double jeopardy - the virus is reaching into increasingly rural areas as the state pushes reopening and the "second wave" fostered by people at bars and beaches is kicking in.

 

All, this, and many on CC are chomping at the bit to travel to Miami and Port Everglades, two of the highest infection locales, to board ships.

Unfortunately many of the pictures of bars in Florida look like it was back to pre-COVID days as far as behaviors in the bars. No masks, no distancing, crowds around the bars.  No wonder several of them had to shutdown  very quickly after opening.  Was listening to an interview with one of the owners on CNBC this morning.  It was clear that he did not get it.  His view was that the protective steps were just to get people comfortable so more would feel safe coming to the bar.  Instead of being done to prevent spread.

[C-Dragons]

4 hours ago, TeeRick said:

It might not be all about how long circulating antibodies or neutralizing antibodies will last.  It is more about the response of the immune system to kick into high gear and respond quickly when it sees the antigen again.

Sorry to keep veering off topic, but your post brought to mind something I heard on the news this morning. Found out the information was published four days ago.

 

 

A new study from China showed that antibodies faded quickly in both asymptomatic and symptomatic COVID-19 patients during convalescence, raising questions about whether the illness leads to any lasting immunity to the virus afterward.

The study, which focused on 37 asymptomatic and 37 symptomatic patients, showed that more than 90% of both groups showed steep declines in levels of SARS-COV-2–specific immunoglobulin G (IgG) antibodies within 2 to 3 months after onset of infection, according to a report published yesterday in Nature Medicine. Further, 40% of the asymptomatic group tested negative for IgG antibodies 8 weeks after they were released from isolation.

The authors said the findings suggest that it could be risky to assume that recovered patients are immune to reinfection, which may have implications for how long to maintain physical distancing restrictions.

[Pirateguy]

I thought this was a cruise forum ??

[Life Buoy]

5 minutes ago, Pirateguy said:

I thought this was a cruise forum ??

It is and Covid-19 affects cruising in a very significant way. Although I do find some of the comments crossing the political lines. You can almost tell from some of the comments who supports and opposes Trump.

Edited June 23, 2020 by Life Buoy

[Pirateguy]

There are plenty forums to discuss COVID 19 and all it’s complexities

This forum should be talking mainly about cruising , this forum is titled around cruising being suspended yet most contributions talk 100% about medical matters 

[Life Buoy]

2 minutes ago, Pirateguy said:

There are plenty forums to discuss COVID 19 and all it’s complexities

This forum should be talking mainly about cruising , this forum is titled around cruising being suspended yet most contributions talk 100% about medical matters 

Just don't read it or post on it if you find it unnecessary or inappropriate. That's your call. But the number of pages of response seems to me to indicate that lots of individuals find it appropriate.