Antarctica on Westerdam....in 2022? How?

[cruisemom42]

I've read for several years now that starting January 1, 2022 the larger cruise ships that do "drive by" Antarctica cruises will no longer be able to offer them. On the strength of this I booked an itinerary for January 2021 on Westerdam thinking it may be my last chance to do this cruise without investing in the hefty cost of the expedition vessels.

 

Needless to say I've been losing hope of a January 2021 sailing due to COVID (and even if the sailing takes place, not sure I would feel safe...).  Yet a few weeks ago when I went looking at itineraries to try to figure out what to do about that, lo and behold I found a number of larger ships STILL OFFERING these itineraries in January 2022 -- including Westerdam, Celebrity's Silhouette (larger still) and Princess' Sapphire Princess.

 

How can this be?  Other than a poster or two here on Cruise Critic, there seems to be an absence of clear information on the Polar Code's impact to larger cruise ships. I do understand there are two categories of requirements, those that are environmentally-based (which already went into effect I believe) and those that are safety based.

 

Now as I cannot believe that all of these large ships have had the necessary hull-strengthening done, I am wondering what gives?  The alternatives seem to be:

• For some reason the hull requirement has been rolled back or further delayed.
• Large cruise lines are ignorant of the ruling (impossible to believe) or are simply ignoring it.
• Cruisers are being lied to when the description says that we will have "expedition cruising in the Antarctic peninsula" on our cruises.
• Past interpretations posted here on CC of what the changes would entail were incorrect.

 

Having found a good deal on the January 2022 cruise on Westerdam, I went ahead with a reservation. But I would be very curious to find out exactly what is going on. (I am still holding on to the 2021 for the time being "just in case".) 

 

I will be most unhappy if I am told 3 months out by HAL that the itinerary has changed due to "new" requirements -- which have been known since 2017 at least. That's a bait and switch that would be difficult to gloss over. 

 

Anyone have any thoughts on this situation? I've already read a number of online articles about this and feel very little wiser.

 

 

 

[kwb101]

I was under the same understanding, which is why we took (part of) this year's South American Grand Voyage to see the Antarctic, based on this thread:

New Ice Class in Force

Not sure what's gong on here, but definitely, 100% worth it. Happy travels! 

[kazu]

@kwb101 thanks for reminding me of that thread.  

 

I thought I remembered something there and went looking and I think I found the answer.

 

@cruisemom42 I think you are ok.  The itinerary has been changed since the regulations went into place.

 

I couldn’t find a way to quote properly but on that New Ice Class in Force @Alphen said this “If you look at the new listed Westerdam "Antarctica Experience" and compare it with the Antarctic cruise destinations in earlier years, judging by the map, the new Antarctic cruise looks a lot different and appears not to venture as much south anymore! 

 

First picture is of our cruise in 2015, second one is the new 2020 cruise.”

 

 

 

 

when I look at the itineraries in 2022 they are similar to the latter one in Alphen’s pics.

 

 

Hope this helps.

[KirkNC]

Looks almost like the 2022 cruise is doing a flyby not a real visit.  I assume there is some line or boundary associated with the lockout.  I bet the Westerdam is going right up to that boundary.  My advice (and we have been to Antarctica three times), is to go on an expedition ship.  We are partial to Hurtengruten but there are several other options.

[StLouisCruisers]

If that is as far as they go in 2022, I would have to second Kirk's advice and take the smaller expedition style ships.  

[cruisemom42]

1 hour ago, KirkNC said:

Looks almost like the 2022 cruise is doing a flyby not a real visit.  I assume there is some line or boundary associated with the lockout.  I bet the Westerdam is going right up to that boundary.  My advice (and we have been to Antarctica three times), is to go on an expedition ship.  We are partial to Hurtengruten but there are several other options.

 

Hi there -- I think I've gone through all of this before on this board, but....short story is that I'm not all that interested in Antarctica as a destination. And as a solo, it is much more expensive to go by expedition ship than my interest would warrant. So what I hoped to do with this particular cruise was just to case it out. If, as I suspect, I enjoy it but feel I've seen enough, then all is good. However, if I get the bug and want to see/do more I can always save my pennies for an expedition cruise later. 

 

The problem is that I have no significant interest in natural beauty and only a passing one in the fauna of the area. 

 

 

[cruisemom42]

2 hours ago, kazu said:

@kwb101 thanks for reminding me of that thread.  

 

I thought I remembered something there and went looking and I think I found the answer.

 

@cruisemom42 I think you are ok.  The itinerary has been changed since the regulations went into place.

 

I couldn’t find a way to quote properly but on that New Ice Class in Force @Alphen said this “If you look at the new listed Westerdam "Antarctica Experience" and compare it with the Antarctic cruise destinations in earlier years, judging by the map, the new Antarctic cruise looks a lot different and appears not to venture as much south anymore! 

 

Hope this helps.

 

Thanks Jacqui -- that's rather what I suspected was happening with these ships. I will have to think whether this will be enough to 'scratch my itch' or whether I should just abandon the idea altogether. I wish it was possible to compare specific coordinates between cruises -- it would help to get a better picture of what we will see...

[kazu]

51 minutes ago, cruisemom42 said:

 

Thanks Jacqui -- that's rather what I suspected was happening with these ships. I will have to think whether this will be enough to 'scratch my itch' or whether I should just abandon the idea altogether. I wish it was possible to compare specific coordinates between cruises -- it would help to get a better picture of what we will see...

 

I’ve done an itinerary similar to the one you are looking at ending in Rio.  We had a few more ports than this one but we did the same channels, etc.  We did see ice and glaciers and there was a narrative talk with the bow opened.  It was enough for us but not necessarily for everyone.  We were there for some of the history, penguins, culture, etc.

 

I know you like history like we do.  IF you do this itinerary, I really recommend coming to Santiago a few days early to explore.  Beautiful city with lots of history and easy to diy sights.  Also, in Valparaiso there is a Pable Neruda museum (ships usually sail from there).

Buenos Aires is an absolutely fabulous city.  Stay there for a few days after and soak in some of the culture.  Head to San Telmo for the tango parlours and if you can be there on a Sunday - the San Telmo fair.  The Recoleta cemetery and museum Is really wonderful.  So much more than that to see in Buenos Aires and the people are fabulous.

 

Hope this helps

[cruisemom42]

1 hour ago, kazu said:

 

I’ve done an itinerary similar to the one you are looking at ending in Rio.  We had a few more ports than this one but we did the same channels, etc.  We did see ice and glaciers and there was a narrative talk with the bow opened.  It was enough for us but not necessarily for everyone.  We were there for some of the history, penguins, culture, etc.

 

I know you like history like we do.  IF you do this itinerary, I really recommend coming to Santiago a few days early to explore.  Beautiful city with lots of history and easy to diy sights.  Also, in Valparaiso there is a Pable Neruda museum (ships usually sail from there).

Buenos Aires is an absolutely fabulous city.  Stay there for a few days after and soak in some of the culture.  Head to San Telmo for the tango parlours and if you can be there on a Sunday - the San Telmo fair.  The Recoleta cemetery and museum Is really wonderful.  So much more than that to see in Buenos Aires and the people are fabulous.

 

Hope this helps

 

Thanks again -- that really does help a lot. Keeps it in perspective. If I do this cruise it's not only about Antarctica but discovering some of South America. That's an idea I can get behind. 

[KirkNC]

If the map from HAL posted earlier by Kazu is remotely accurate and the description on the website of the couple days in Antarctica is believed, the cruise is not even going to the continent.  It appears there maybe a small piece of land, an island but that would be it.  Obviously there would probably be icebergs around and some life but the highlights of the past cruises has been Deception Island and exploring the bays and coves for life.  Also on most cruises the Palmer station people come onboard.  In my view it would be an immensely watered down version of an Antarctica cruise, not sure one could even draw a conclusion on Antarctica from the experience.  It will be cold and have icebergs and probably some life.  I understand the cost issue with expedition ships, they are usually around $15-20k/pp depending on the itinerary.  I guess an analogy for me would be visiting Machu Picchu in person or flying over it in a plane. 

[cruisemom42]

17 minutes ago, KirkNC said:

If the map from HAL posted earlier by Kazu is remotely accurate and the description on the website of the couple days in Antarctica is believed, the cruise is not even going to the continent.  It appears there maybe a small piece of land, an island but that would be it.  Obviously there would probably be icebergs around and some life but the highlights of the past cruises has been Deception Island and exploring the bays and coves for life.  Also on most cruises the Palmer station people come onboard.  In my view it would be an immensely watered down version of an Antarctica cruise, not sure one could even draw a conclusion on Antarctica from the experience.  It will be cold and have icebergs and probably some life.  I understand the cost issue with expedition ships, they are usually around $15-20k/pp depending on the itinerary.  I guess an analogy for me would be visiting Machu Picchu in person or flying over it in a plane. 

 

Yes, but I have far more interest in Machu Picchu!

 

And remember -- $15-20k plus the solo supplement. I just don't have enough interest, at this point, to sink the cost of a car into such a trip. 

 

[chengkp75]

Best guess, from the map, and the geography involved, is that the ship will stay north of 60* South, which it is allowed to do, which will be about 70 miles north of Elephant Island.  They could get within about 30 miles of Coronation Island, and closer to the South Sandwich Islands, but not sure of the distance involved to make these islands (especially the South Sandwich) and keep itinerary.  The closest this would get to the Antarctic mainland (peninsula) would be about 200 miles.

[cruisemom42]

10 minutes ago, chengkp75 said:

Best guess, from the map, and the geography involved, is that the ship will stay north of 60* South, which it is allowed to do, which will be about 70 miles north of Elephant Island.  They could get within about 30 miles of Coronation Island, and closer to the South Sandwich Islands, but not sure of the distance involved to make these islands (especially the South Sandwich) and keep itinerary.  The closest this would get to the Antarctic mainland (peninsula) would be about 200 miles.

 

Thanks -- I wonder if that is significantly different than what is planned on Westerdam in 2021?  Or would it be virtually the same?

 

Either way, I can't imagine wanting to get on a cruise ship in 6 months unless there is some huge change in the current situation....e.g., a vaccine.

 

[AncientWanderer]

  I think we are booked on the same January 2021 cruise that you had originally booked.  Like you, we don't see much possibility of it happening or of us having the confidence to go.

We have already taken a really long cruise of South America (San Diego to Buenos Aires) so without a real Antarctic "addition" to that, we won't go down there again.  But since you have not been down there and since you love travel and studying history, I highly recommend the trip to see that part of the world.  It is different in so many ways from the rest of the world, that for an avid traveler it's not to be missed.

Just read, read, read all you can find about the history and geography of that area and I bet you'll be thrilled with the trip.

Edited July 5, 2020 by AncientWanderer

[cruisemom42]

11 minutes ago, AncientWanderer said:

  I think we are booked on the same January 2021 cruise that you had originally booked.  Like you, we don't see much possibility of it happening or of us having the confidence to go.

We have already taken a really long cruise of South America (San Diego to Buenos Aires) so without a real Antarctic "addition" to that, we won't go down there again.  But since you have not been down there and since you love travel and studying history, I highly recommend the trip to see that part of the world.  It is different in so many ways from the rest of the world, that for an avid traveler it's not to be missed.

Just read, read, read all you can find about the history and geography of that area and I bet you'll be thrilled with the trip.

 

Thanks -- comments like yours and kazu's do a lot to reinforce my original thinking on the trip. Everyone just focuses so intensely on Antarctica. 

 

And on the positive side, if I don't go (there or anywhere else, apparently) until 2022, I will have lots of time to prepare. If you have any favorite books or other sources to recommend, please do so!

 

[rafinmd]

2 hours ago, kazu said:

Also, in Valparaiso there is a Pable Neruda museum (ships usually sail from there).

Sadly they don't.  Valparaiso has been very unfriendly to cruise ships and most all (including HAL) have shifted to San Antonio, about 65 miles to the South.  Ironically, they built a new terminal in 2017, just about the time their traffic dried up.  It always struck me as ironic that you docked right in the center of town and had to take a shuttle about 3 km to the terminal which was in an undesirable location.  The shuttle route went through a public space, but you could not get on or off there and had to disembark/embark at the terminal.  I think they also refused to confirm berth available until very close to the last minute. 

 

I was at San Antonio on the Prinsendam in 2019 and took a tour to Santiago.  It's about the same distance from San Antonio as Valparaiso but to go from San Antonio to Valparaiso as it is to Santiago.

 

Roy

[kazu]

2 minutes ago, rafinmd said:

Sadly they don't.  Valparaiso has been very unfriendly to cruise ships and most all (including HAL) have shifted to San Antonio, about 65 miles to the South.  Ironically, they built a new terminal in 2017, just about the time their traffic dried up.  It always struck me as ironic that you docked right in the center of town and had to take a shuttle about 3 km to the terminal which was in an undesirable location.  The shuttle route went through a public space, but you could not get on or off there and had to disembark/embark at the terminal.  I think they also refused to confirm berth available until very close to the last minute. 

 

I was at San Antonio on the Prinsendam in 2019 and took a tour to Santiago.  It's about the same distance from San Antonio as Valparaiso but to go from San Antonio to Valparaiso as it is to Santiago.

 

Roy

 

Oh thanks for the correction..  I guess my cruise was too old.  I didn’t think it was that long ago 😉   What a shame as that little museum was quite economical and had original writings in Pablo Neruda’s house.

apologies to cruisemom for the misinformation.  

 

[KirkNC]

1 hour ago, cruisemom42 said:

 

Yes, but I have far more interest in Machu Picchu!

 

And remember -- $15-20k plus the solo supplement. I just don't have enough interest, at this point, to sink the cost of a car into such a trip. 

 

Understood!

[chengkp75]

1 hour ago, cruisemom42 said:

Thanks -- I wonder if that is significantly different than what is planned on Westerdam in 2021?  Or would it be virtually the same?

Looks to be the same.

[cruisemom42]

Just now, chengkp75 said:

Looks to be the same.

 

Thanks -- then I think I'll stop agonizing and just plan on doing the 2022 version (fingers crossed, of course...)

[cruisemom42]

50 minutes ago, kazu said:

 

Oh thanks for the correction..  I guess my cruise was too old.  I didn’t think it was that long ago 😉   What a shame as that little museum was quite economical and had original writings in Pablo Neruda’s house.

apologies to cruisemom for the misinformation.  

 

 

Yes, it does look like the ship sails from San Antonio.  I think I would fly into Santiago and spend a few days, and would figure out a way to get to Valparaiso prior to embarking. 

[Turtles06]

1 hour ago, cruisemom42 said:

And remember -- $15-20k plus the solo supplement.

 

There's no question that a trip to Antarctica aboard an expedition ship is pricey, but I don't think it's necessarily true that there's a solo supplement.  There are some expedition ships, like the Nat Geo Explorer, that have cabins for singles. 

 

The reason for taking an expedition ship to Antarctica is to have a unique experience, one that cannot be replicated on a drive-by.   The beauty of the area is beyond extraordinary, and getting to do things like be up close to the ice at sea level in Zodiacs and kayaks is unbelievable.   And then of course there are the up close experiences with the fauna.  And not having a set itinerary, so the Captain can just decide to follow a bunch of killer whales for several hours as they try to chase down a minke whale for breakfast, and you feel like you are living in an episode of National Geographic.   Since you said above that you don't have a great interest in those things, it would be hard to justify the expense, even without a solo supplement.

 

For us, the expedition trip that we took to Antarctica truly was the trip of a lifetime.  I hate to use a cliche like that, but it was an incomparable trip, period.  We love history, art, museums, love visiting Italy (I mention that because of your interest), but Antarctica is absolutely in a category all its own.

 

If the new large-ship drive-by itineraries don't go south far enough to sail along the Antarctic Peninsula, I don't know how much of an "Antarctic experience" that really will be.  They won't even be near the continent. 

 

I'm not trying to talk you into doing an expedition, just pointing out that you may not really get to "scratch your itch."

 

Good luck with, and enjoy, whatever you decide!

[rafinmd]

11 minutes ago, cruisemom42 said:

 

Yes, it does look like the ship sails from San Antonio.  I think I would fly into Santiago and spend a few days, and would figure out a way to get to Valparaiso prior to embarking. 

That sounds like a plan.  If Westie does go in 2021 try to follow it on Cruisemapper and see what you think of the route.  If you do go and get a bit of a taste, you can then decide if you want to repeat via the expedition ship.

 

I first went on an expedition ship in 1997 and am extremely thankful that I did.  I've been twice more on full sized ships and felt like having done it once it the large ship was still a great experience.

 

Roy

[TiogaCruiser]

2 hours ago, chengkp75 said:

Best guess, from the map, and the geography involved, is that the ship will stay north of 60* South, which it is allowed to do, which will be about 70 miles north of Elephant Island.  They could get within about 30 miles of Coronation Island, and closer to the South Sandwich Islands, but not sure of the distance involved to make these islands (especially the South Sandwich) and keep itinerary.  The closest this would get to the Antarctic mainland (peninsula) would be about 200 miles.

Thanks for weighing in on this.

 

With those distances I’m scratching my head trying to imagine what one would see and how it can be legitimately called an Antarctica cruise. Wouldn’t that make it too far north for iceberg alley?

[Tampa Girl]

50 minutes ago, cruisemom42 said:

 

Thanks -- then I think I'll stop agonizing and just plan on doing the 2022 version (fingers crossed, of course...)

 

Any chance that you can change your cruise to the December, 2020, date should HAL resume their sailings?  You would reach Antarctica prior to January 1st.  We were on the December 18, 2019, Zaandam cruise, and we arrived in Antarctica about December 26th, if my memory is correct.  It is something to see if you can make it happen.