If Royal Requires A Covid-19 Vaccine Before Cruising Will You Get It???

[Dinglebert]

9 minutes ago, molly361 said:

Are these vaccines like the flu one where you have to get one every year?  I never see any mention of that

That is because they don't know yet.  This is new.  They don't know a few things.  Firstly how long it will last.  It may be 6 months or 5 years, its currently unknown.  The second is that it may have to slightly change each time if the virus mutates and therefore the vaccines will also have to be changed.

[nomad098]

8 hours ago, mek said:

Mum test?  That's easy  - she would be in line right behind me.

 

 

Why not in front of you?

 

A lot in the UK are keen for the members of parliament to take the vaccine first and everyone else later. Members of parliament are keen to point out it would mean they would be jumping the queue and they should wait and others should go first, it does not inspire confidence.

 

One professor working on the Oxford mRNA vaccine made a statement to the effect that the cautious approach to getting the vaccine was the sensible approach.

 

If RCL require a vaccination for my cruise next year that is their decision, I would respect their decision and I will cancel until such time I feel the vaccine is safe.

 

The way it looks to me is that those that are keen to roll up their sleeves to get on with a normal life are the opposite end of the spectrum to the anti vaxxers. Though I respect both opinions I think I'm quite happy to sit in the middle.

 

 

10 hours ago, ace2542 said:

The paper book can be forged though and could be very difficult to confirm authenticity?. It would be a lot harder I suspect to fake up a digital result.

 

Almost anything can be forged or faked, that's the reasoning behind the ID2020 and WEF idea of having the technology implanted in your body along with the vaccine to confirm your vaccination and giving rise to the conspiracy theories. The problem with conspiracy theories their wild and wacky and unbelievable until years later when a few a proven true.

 

A digital certificate would mean that everyone would be required to carry a digital device and brings up all the legal, moral and ethical problems they are now seeing in China.

 

Though it would make it easier for RCL to board passengers

 

6 hours ago, OSUZorba said:

In the NIH article, this is basically the worst case

I would gladly, knowingly take a 0.00012% of dying from a vaccine vs the 2+% chance of dying from COVID (about 16,226 times more likely to die of COVID than the worst case vaccine mistake). Also notice that the side effects were noticed pretty quickly, and by the time anyone other than volunteers get the vaccine there will have been 10s of thousands of people already vaccinated for a months, some for 9-10 months.

 

Of course there will be more risk that with say MMR or Polio vaccines that have been around for decades, but major common side effects would most likely show themselves before the vaccine reaches the masses.

 

BTW: Guillain-Barré is caused at a higher rate by the actual flu and COVID than the 1976 swine flu vaccine.

 

Swine flu is the actual flu it's just a variant like Spanish flu and at the moment there is no direct link with covid-19 to Guillain-Barré though I suspect your right.

 

What's more concerning is the fact the CDC were aware of the problems with the swine flu vaccine before and during the vaccination program and decided to keep this information from the public and carry on with the vaccination program anyway for the greater good, this was admitted later and cost the US government around $3.5 billion. Could history repeat itself

 

The average risk of death from covid-19 is nowhere near 2% in the US but will probably end the year at around 0.1%. If everyone contracted covid-19 on day one then the figure would have been 2%+, mitigations like lockdowns, washing hands, masks and social distancing have helped enormously.

 

0.000055% of the world's population have taken the Pfizer vaccine, we have little idea how it will affect the rest and will not know until the vaccine program moves forward.

 

 

 

[BND]

1 hour ago, Dinglebert said:

That is because they don't know yet.  This is new.  They don't know a few things.  Firstly how long it will last.  It may be 6 months or 5 years, its currently unknown.  The second is that it may have to slightly change each time if the virus mutates and therefore the vaccines will also have to be changed.

Pretty sure with the RNA vaccine they don't have to worry about mutations because of how it actually works.  But, that said, flu vaccines change every year and it could be that just like that vaccine the covid one would be yearly.  

[BND]

8 hours ago, OSUZorba said:

I really think this is just that the vaccine trails on children won't be done yet. I am sure as soon as the children trails are complete it'll be offered to them.

The poster who brought up the UK originally and who would get the shot said no one under 40, not just children, although apparently that is being walked back, but still, it wasn't just about testing, it was about availability.  The poster also said that no one under 18 would be receiving it with no caveat posted.  That post is what my post was referring to.

Edited November 13, 2020 by BND

[James4me]

Hell no we will not get this vaccine.  Don’t trust our Government anymore.  So no cruising for us if mandated. 

[OnTheJourney]

I'd get it. Have to trust that the proper testing has been done I suppose. 

[Dennis#1]

12 minutes ago, OnTheJourney said:

I'd get it. Have to trust that the proper testing has been done I suppose. 

Agree.  The vaccine will most likely be a mandatory requirement is one chooses to go on a cruise. 

[jock804]

No vaccine = No cruise.

No confusion, no arguments, a simple approach to a world wide problem.

Should the vaccine prove to be successful, there is another industry, I think may adopt a similar strategy, the Airlines. 

If International travel wants to resume on a grand scale with no or little restrictions, a vaccine could be mandatory. 

I love to travel, particularly across the pond, board a ship of my choosing taking me to destinations of my choosing. It's a no brainer, bring on the vaccine. 

[nomad098]

39 minutes ago, jock804 said:

No vaccine = No cruise.

No confusion, no arguments, a simple approach to a world wide problem.

It's a no brainer, bring on the vaccine. 

 

The vaccine trials at the moment are about reducing harm not breaking transmission. As set out in the trial protocols. An interesting read from the British Medical Journal.

https://www.bmj.com/content/371/bmj.m4037

 

Pfizer have admitted that there is a possibility that the 90% effectiveness in harm reduction may drop as more data is collected

 

So how does this impact your statement if even vaccinated people pose a risk to vaccinated/unvaccinated people in the countries people visit or vaccinated people on the ship or plane.

 

It may take many years to vaccinate countries people want to cruise to.

 

I don't disagree with your statement.

 

I just don't think it is as black and white as many people hope it will be.

[nomad098]

8 hours ago, James4me said:

Hell no we will not get this vaccine.  Don’t trust our Government anymore.  So no cruising for us if mandated. 

 

If the cruise industry mandate a vaccine we will not cruise, not because we do not trust the government but because it looks like the first vaccines will be made on an unproven mRNA platform.

When a vaccine becomes available on a tried and tested platform we will look at taking it. 

 

 

[ace2542]

22 hours ago, BND said:

The poster who brought up the UK originally and who would get the shot said no one under 40, not just children, although apparently that is being walked back, but still, it wasn't just about testing, it was about availability.  The poster also said that no one under 18 would be receiving it with no caveat posted.  That post is what my post was referring to.

 I think I was that poster. They are walking that back because there will be chaos if they don't.  I worked out only 44% of people would be vaccinated with a no under 50s plan. That would not do anything. And besides I think with 9 months of very serious restrictions  they will have to the offer the vaccine to most for the sacrifice they have made. Imagine if it is needed for travel to a lot of places and UK Gov refuses it.

Edited November 14, 2020 by ace2542

[BND]

Well, we've been to the beach twice this year, one week in July and one just over a week ago.  We stayed for a week each time. We ate outside, inside and in our room a few times.  We just booked another week for early May because we figure our May cruises aren't happening either.  We go to Ocean City, MD and MD has a pretty high rate, but we have felt perfectly safe.  Everyone we encountered was wearing masks.  It's mandatory inside and even on the boardwalk if you can't maintain 6 feet separation.  We are patiently waiting for the vaccine and the energy some have put into being negative about it is a waste of time.  We prefer to be hopeful.  It makes life so much better.

[BND]

2 hours ago, nomad098 said:

 

If the cruise industry mandate a vaccine we will not cruise, not because we do not trust the government but because it looks like the first vaccines will be made on an unproven mRNA platform.

When a vaccine becomes available on a tried and tested platform we will look at taking it. 

 

 

So, serious question.  How many years do you plan to wait?  Because to be what most consider a "normal" amount of time is years.  My DH even volunteered to be in the trials here locally, but they already had too many people who are selfless volunteer to help.  

Edited November 14, 2020 by BND

[mek]

1 hour ago, BND said:

So, serious question.  How many years do you plan to wait?  Because to be what most consider a "normal" amount of time is years.  My DH even volunteered to be in the trials here locally, but they already had too many people who are selfless volunteer to help.  

That's the question I would also like to have answered.  At what point do those who refuse to get the vaccine accept it is safe?  1 - 2 - 5 -10 years?????   That's a lot of living I could potentially be missing by waiting and frankly I'm willing to get the shot(s) and start getting my life back to normal. 

I'll worry side affects if and when they happen.

[OnTheJourney]

1 hour ago, mek said:

That's a lot of living I could potentially be missing by waiting and frankly I'm willing to get the shot(s) and start getting my life back to normal. 

Agreed...time is of the essence when it comes to serious traveling. There is ultimately only so much time available. That "someday we'll do (this or that)' syndrome doesn't cut it, since the someday often never comes. 

[mek]

8 minutes ago, OnTheJourney said:

Agreed...time is of the essence when it comes to serious traveling. There is ultimately only so much time available. That "someday we'll do (this or that)' syndrome doesn't cut it, since the someday often never comes. 

As I've previously mentioned on other threads there is so much I'm missing right now besides travel. My grandson is 6 and while I've been able to do several outdoor activities with him over the summer, now that we have to be indoors I will have to be more careful around him.  I miss overnights with him and Thanksgiving and Christmas will be low keyed events this year minus family.

I retired in March - just when all of this crap really got going. Now that I have all the time in the world there isn't anything to do or places to go.

People may initially refuse the vaccine, but I think there will be many things off limit to those who don't.

Just an example.

https://losangeles.cbslocal.com/2020/11/12/ticketmaster-concert-covid-vaccine-coronavirus-testing-tickets/

 

[docruth]

On 11/13/2020 at 8:21 AM, BND said:

Pretty sure with the RNA vaccine they don't have to worry about mutations because of how it actually works.  But, that said, flu vaccines change every year and it could be that just like that vaccine the covid one would be yearly.  

 

BND,

 

This is a really interesting nugget of knowledge. May I ask where you came across it?

 

I was under the impression that for the exterior protein / enzyme receptor pair (the pretty red flowers on the Covid-19 picture) to change, that could only happen via a DNA change. Those receptors are how Covid-19 attaches to the body’s cells. So, regardless of whether it’s modern method, like a DNA, mRNA, or RNA transcriptase based vaccine production technology, three pretty important aspects are: 1) how long protection lasts; 2) how much change (mutation) will obviate the efficacy of the vaccine; and 3) what percentage of the recipients are protected.

 

Those certainly are not the only metrics, safety is probably number one not listed above, side-effects in different populations is another, how much / fast we can make it, and logistics (e.g. storing it at -100C).

 

My point is that a lot of posts are kind of oriented towards a significant event occurring, like: the virus burns itself out: the world comes up with adequate supplies of a safe and effective vaccine that can be rolled out worldwide; or enough international travelers say they’ll take the risk and go regardless. I’ve commented on vaccine timelines in earlier posts, the others are pretty self explanatory. The upshot of my comment is that none of those scenarios seems really plausible in the short term.

 

So, we’re back to a long, slow slog to normalcy (years). I personally hope to be traveling again by 2022. However I’ll be the first to admit that I have absolutely no idea what international travel looks like in the future. After 9/11, flying became ‘no fun’, I really hope that’s not our future for cruising.

 

Doc Ruth

 

 

[ace2542]

2 hours ago, docruth said:

 

BND,

 

This is a really interesting nugget of knowledge. May I ask where you came across it?

 

I was under the impression that for the exterior protein / enzyme receptor pair (the pretty red flowers on the Covid-19 picture) to change, that could only happen via a DNA change. Those receptors are how Covid-19 attaches to the body’s cells. So, regardless of whether it’s modern method, like a DNA, mRNA, or RNA transcriptase based vaccine production technology, three pretty important aspects are: 1) how long protection lasts; 2) how much change (mutation) will obviate the efficacy of the vaccine; and 3) what percentage of the recipients are protected.

 

Those certainly are not the only metrics, safety is probably number one not listed above, side-effects in different populations is another, how much / fast we can make it, and logistics (e.g. storing it at -100C).

 

My point is that a lot of posts are kind of oriented towards a significant event occurring, like: the virus burns itself out: the world comes up with adequate supplies of a safe and effective vaccine that can be rolled out worldwide; or enough international travelers say they’ll take the risk and go regardless. I’ve commented on vaccine timelines in earlier posts, the others are pretty self explanatory. The upshot of my comment is that none of those scenarios seems really plausible in the short term.

 

So, we’re back to a long, slow slog to normalcy (years). I personally hope to be traveling again by 2022. However I’ll be the first to admit that I have absolutely no idea what international travel looks like in the future. After 9/11, flying became ‘no fun’, I really hope that’s not our future for cruising.

 

Doc Ruth

 

 

One plus to the vaccine needing to be stored at those temperatures that it makes it impossible to steal for sale surely? And besides it is by no means certain that other vaccines - and there will likely be several - will need to be stored in these conditions.

[nomad098]

8 hours ago, BND said:

So, serious question.  How many years do you plan to wait?  Because to be what most consider a "normal" amount of time is years.  My DH even volunteered to be in the trials here locally, but they already had too many people who are selfless volunteer to help.  

 

Anyone who volunteers is a hero in my book.

 

I had all the symptoms of covid-19, which completely knocked me off my feet early on in the pandemic and I am still suffering now with unexplainable joint pain unfortunately testing was not available at the time. 6 out of my 8 work colleagues had covid symptoms over about a 4 week period and could not be tested, none of us have had a cold since though which is unusual.  

 

Personally looking at the evidence available I would be looking at 1-2 years on a established vaccine platform, 5 years plus on the newer platforms and at least 10 years for the mRNA platforms.

 

Vaccine platforms both established and new are light years ahead of where they were even 10 years ago, so I don't think you need to wait as long to confirm their safety as we used to.

 

The mRNA vaccine I have been following for several years reading the papers on their use in cancer treatments and as a vaccine for rabies,  this is a very exciting method for treatment as it was believed that mRNA did not have a direct effect on DNA and epigenetic DNA nucleus of a cell. This all changed in early 2020 when evidence started to emerge but still needs to be verified and confirmed that not only could it have an effect on DNA, epigenetic DNA it's effects could also be transgenerational. This may not necessarily be a bad thing as it could confer immunity to future generations. But further study would be needed before I would take it. 

 

Whichever vaccine comes out first I think people need to understand the realities of how long it will  take to get back to normal.

 

Based on the UK vaccination program it would be the early summer before I would be offered the vaccine and maybe longer for my kids. Providing all the logistics were sorted out. 

[ace2542]

3 minutes ago, nomad098 said:

 

Anyone who volunteers is a hero in my book.

 

I had all the symptoms of covid-19, which completely knocked me off my feet early on in the pandemic and I am still suffering now with unexplainable joint pain unfortunately testing was not available at the time. 6 out of my 8 work colleagues had covid symptoms over about a 4 week period and could not be tested, none of us have had a cold since though which is unusual.  

 

Personally looking at the evidence available I would be looking at 1-2 years on a established vaccine platform, 5 years plus on the newer platforms and at least 10 years for the mRNA platforms.

 

Vaccine platforms both established and new are light years ahead of where they were even 10 years ago, so I don't think you need to wait as long to confirm their safety as we used to.

 

The mRNA vaccine I have been following for several years reading the papers on their use in cancer treatments and as a vaccine for rabies,  this is a very exciting method for treatment as it was believed that mRNA did not have a direct effect on DNA and epigenetic DNA nucleus of a cell. This all changed in early 2020 when evidence started to emerge but still needs to be verified and confirmed that not only could it have an effect on DNA, epigenetic DNA it's effects could also be transgenerational. This may not necessarily be a bad thing as it could confer immunity to future generations. But further study would be needed before I would take it. 

 

Whichever vaccine comes out first I think people need to understand the realities of how long it will  take to get back to normal.

 

Based on the UK vaccination program it would be the early summer before I would be offered the vaccine and maybe longer for my kids. Providing all the logistics were sorted out. 

According to statement in the daily mail today we will All get the vaccine in UK on the NHS at some point to prevent private sector from selling it for profit.  They will likely vaccine your kids in school like they did for us with the childhood jabs we had. It is possible that not all vaccines will need to be stored at these cold temperatures.

 

This RNA vaccines are very interesting stuff. They have been dreaming for years about a so called universal flu vaccine to wipe it out. Perhaps this is how it will be achieved.

[nomad098]

2 hours ago, docruth said:

I was under the impression that for the exterior protein / enzyme receptor pair (the pretty red flowers on the Covid-19 picture) to change, that could only happen via a DNA change. Those receptors are how Covid-19 attaches to the body’s cells. So, regardless of whether it’s modern method, like a DNA, mRNA, or RNA transcriptase based vaccine production technology, three pretty important aspects are: 1) how long protection lasts; 2) how much change (mutation) will obviate the efficacy of the vaccine; and 3) what percentage of the recipients are protected.

 

The upshot of my comment is that none of those scenarios seems really plausible in the short term.

 

Doc Ruth

 

 

 

My understanding was that a change in the exterior protein / enzyme receptor was possible due to the RNA virus not self checking it's genetic code during reproduction in the same way a DNA virus would and a change in the exterior protein / enzyme receptor could make a vaccine obsolete. I believe this is the concern with the mutation in the mink farm populations in the US and Denmark.

 

I have a feeling that although it will take a long time to get everyone vaccinated. In the short term once vaccines are shown to reduce mortality rates in those at risk there will be a political push from governments to reopen economies quickly with the message " wash hands, social distance and wear a mask" whilst you wait for the vaccine because your risk of severe symptoms is low.  

[nomad098]

36 minutes ago, ace2542 said:

According to statement in the daily mail today we will All get the vaccine in UK on the NHS at some point to prevent private sector from selling it for profit.  They will likely vaccine your kids in school like they did for us with the childhood jabs we had. It is possible that not all vaccines will need to be stored at these cold temperatures.

 

This RNA vaccines are very interesting stuff. They have been dreaming for years about a so called universal flu vaccine to wipe it out. Perhaps this is how it will be achieved.

 

An extract from the article

 

"Full data is expected within the next three weeks, Mr Uğur Şahin, the chief executive of German firm BioNTech said. It is expected to be able to prevent illness but whether the jab can stop people carrying the coronavirus and spreading it to others may not be known for a year, he admitted."

 

This could pose a problem for vaccination certificates for cruise lines. Maybe a negative test would also be needed at the port. Getting a false positive at the port would be a definite downer after having the vaccine.

 

I have no idea how many vaccinations I have had and for what whilst in school and with the military. The only one I know for sure was the polio sugar one. A universal flu jab would be a game changer.

 

Watching Matt Hancock the Health Secretary squirm and avoid answering the question when asked if he would take the vaccine first on Question Time, was not exactly a confidence boost.

[ace2542]

9 hours ago, nomad098 said:

 

An extract from the article

 

"Full data is expected within the next three weeks, Mr Uğur Şahin, the chief executive of German firm BioNTech said. It is expected to be able to prevent illness but whether the jab can stop people carrying the coronavirus and spreading it to others may not be known for a year, he admitted."

 

This could pose a problem for vaccination certificates for cruise lines. Maybe a negative test would also be needed at the port. Getting a false positive at the port would be a definite downer after having the vaccine.

 

I have no idea how many vaccinations I have had and for what whilst in school and with the military. The only one I know for sure was the polio sugar one. A universal flu jab would be a game changer.

 

Watching Matt Hancock the Health Secretary squirm and avoid answering the question when asked if he would take the vaccine first on Question Time, was not exactly a confidence boost.

I think it will be a case of we will have to take if we want to cruise again or visit name the country again the United States or Australia for instance. And again we go back to testing discussions and assuming the cruise lines will have enough testing capacity at all locations and whether tests will come back in time if done at the port.

 

I am having a wisdom tooth removed Wednesday. I was told to do the test today the courier has been to collect it but I am not optimistic about getting the result back on time.

[nomad098]

38 minutes ago, ace2542 said:

I think it will be a case of we will have to take if we want to cruise again or visit name the country again the United States or Australia for instance. And again we go back to testing discussions and assuming the cruise lines will have enough testing capacity at all locations and whether tests will come back in time if done at the port.

 

I am having a wisdom tooth removed Wednesday. I was told to do the test today the courier has been to collect it but I am not optimistic about getting the result back on time.

 

I think you're right.

 

Cruises to major countries should be fine if they have a vaccination program in place but I can imagine that countries with supply issues and without vaccination programs would not be happy to let vaccinated passengers in if they can carry and spread the disease to their population.

 

Good luck with the wisdom tooth and I hope it's not painful

 

 

 

[mek]

On 11/13/2020 at 7:26 AM, nomad098 said:

 

Why not in front of you?

 

 

 

 

 

Probably because she died in 1995.  Sheesh - was just making a point that I wouldn't hesitate having someone close to me get the vaccine