Carnival Cruise Line Terminates Thousands of Crew Members and Senior Shipboard Officers

[lobster1313]

https://www.cruiselawnews.com/2020/09/articles/disease/carnival-cruise-line-terminates-thousands-of-crew-members-and-senior-shipboard-officers/

 

Bad news for those crew mwmbers but at least they're making decisions on which crews they will be bringing back once they restart.

[pe4all]

Interesting article.  Very sad for all terminated.  I wonder what percentage of other major cruise line passengers decided to get their money back as full refunds or went for fcc.  Surprised 55% decided on refunds with Carnival.  Thought that number would be lower.  

[kdr69]

Well it makes sense that if your getting rid of 8 ships across the line then it stands to reason you dont need the Staff they mention in the article.  

[lobster1313]

John Heald said it's not true but they won't be able bring them all back even with the Mardis Gras launching next year.

[Essiesmom]

I'm wondering if the author really meant Carnival Corp, or the Carnival family of lines, and the lay-offs would include crews from Sea and Sun Princess, as well as all of the crews from the four HAL ships sold, and the Costa ships...It would make more sense.  EM

[Bevv]

It does make sense that with fewer ships and delayed starting of cruising for those in dry dock they would need less staff to run the ships.

[fla gang]

Carnival Corporation is selling off 18 ships. Fox News announced that a couple of days ago.

[jetsfan58]

Never want to see anyone lose their source of income. Let's continue to pray for the Cruise Line Industry and the effected families as more of these announcements are sure to follow. 

[bingomamma19]

Not a surprise at all.   Carnival is getting rid of 18 ships as a corporation, the cruises havent started yet for a small start up of operations and the CEO of carnival already said in the past that he doesnt expect sailing at full capacity until 2022.       Layoff and letting people go is obvious.   

 

This website that wrote the article is very anti cruising usually, i mean how do you write an article acting like job losses in the cruiseline industry right now is "news"?

 

 

[ProgRockCruiser]

1 hour ago, fla gang said:

Carnival Corporation is selling off 18 ships. Fox News announced that a couple of days ago.

We've been discussing the sell-off for a while (two months?) - that is not "news".

 

Even the recent increase to 18 from 15 (IIRC) is old news.

 

But yes, it makes sense that with fewer ships the demand for crew is reduced accordingly.

 

And the vast majority of reductions will be through non-renewal of contracts, vs just firing someone that is currently employed.  Those are folks that aren't always guaranteed a renewal anyway.

 

The senior officers are the ones losing a "permanent professional job" - hopefully they'll find somewhere to land.  Or maybe there will be shuffling of positions to minimize actual layoffs.

 

Oh, and while I honestly feel sorry for everyone not able to come back, the following bit from the article is just going a step too far:

 

"One crew member who contacted our office said “why didn’t Carnival notify me in April so I could find another job? It abandoned me and my family with two small kids without money.” "

 

Well, in April Carnival had no idea this was going to be as bad as it got.  No-one knew - though some "pessimists" were more correct than even they imagined, I suspect.  And if you sat around waiting to be called back without finding alternative employment in the meantime that was poor decision-making on your part.

 

Edited September 21, 2020 by ProgRockCruiser
add article quote and commentary

[lobster1313]

I would imagine that there would be some retirements and others who may have already moved on to other employment.

[njoyndride]

1 hour ago, ProgRockCruiser said:

We've been discussing the sell-off for a while (two months?) - that is not "news".

 

Even the recent increase to 18 from 15 (IIRC) is old news.

 

But yes, it makes sense that with fewer ships the demand for crew is reduced accordingly.

 

And the vast majority of reductions will be through non-renewal of contracts, vs just firing someone that is currently employed.  Those are folks that aren't always guaranteed a renewal anyway.

 

The senior officers are the ones losing a "permanent professional job" - hopefully they'll find somewhere to land.  Or maybe there will be shuffling of positions to minimize actual layoffs.

 

Oh, and while I honestly feel sorry for everyone not able to come back, the following bit from the article is just going a step too far:

 

"One crew member who contacted our office said “why didn’t Carnival notify me in April so I could find another job? It abandoned me and my family with two small kids without money.” "

 

Well, in April Carnival had no idea this was going to be as bad as it got.  No-one knew - though some "pessimists" were more correct than even they imagined, I suspect.  And if you sat around waiting to be called back without finding alternative employment in the meantime that was poor decision-making on your part.

 

 

Exactly.  One of our friends who is a head waiter and "career" Carnival crew has been on a tanker off of South America for the past two months.  Having 15+ years he'd likely be called back with one of the 1st groups but took his livelihood in his own hands.  He also has 2 children to feed.  He also can't wait to be called back and has faith that protocols, when followed, will make cruising viable again. 

[xDisconnections]

3 hours ago, jetsfan58 said:

Never want to see anyone lose their source of income. Let's continue to pray for the Cruise Line Industry and the effected families as more of these announcements are sure to follow. 

Since the beginning, I have said this will be inevitable and the only negative component of eliminating the rust buckets and sailing at a reduced capacity on the remaining ships. Fewer capacity, fewer available positions.

[Moviela]

In mid March my crew was sent home with the idea production would be suspended until the end of the month, and we are still waiting for a call sheet. 

 

Carnival has the same problem. They don't know when they can resume, and exactly what measures should be taken to avoid infection. I can't find fault with the company or their spokespersons for not being forthright or deliberately misleading the public. 

 

Management made a decision to not continue with ships that had a low return on investment, and the expense caused by the shutdown accelerated the disposal of the assets. With four ships tanning on the beach in Turkey there are about 4,000 people with nothing to do.  As a boss it is not easy to lay people off, but it is a job that has to be done.

[idiebabe]

8 hours ago, Essiesmom said:

I'm wondering if the author really meant Carnival Corp, or the Carnival family of lines, and the lay-offs would include crews from Sea and Sun Princess, as well as all of the crews from the four HAL ships sold, and the Costa ships...It would make more sense.  EM

 

From the Announcement I read it said that more will be announced with regards to HAL and Princess.  It sounds as if this is Carnival Cruise Lines only.  Captains, Staff Captains, Hotel Directors, Guest Service Managers, etc.  

[ProgRockCruiser]

2 minutes ago, idiebabe said:

 

From the Announcement I read it said that more will be announced with regards to HAL and Princess.  It sounds as if this is Carnival Cruise Lines only.  Captains, Staff Captains, Hotel Directors, Guest Service Managers, etc.  

Four ships are gone from the fleet.  (Four, right?  Feel free to correct me...)  Another is delayed in conversion (Radiance).  Others are going into Drydock vs active service if/when we resume cruising.  Mardi Gras is delayed.

 

The smaller ships had crews of about 900 people, so 3600 total minimum.  I would be surprised if Carnival didn't chop at least 7000 positions across all those impacts.  They have nowhere to put any excess staff.

 

Come January/February (2021, hope springs eternal), they will go on a hiring spree and staff up the ships entering/returning to service.

 

That's my take, at least.

[stobe1]

I work in a different sector of the travel industry and we are facing furloughs and layoffs numbering in the tens of thousands industry wide in just a few days on Oct 1. There will likely be thousands more facing the unemployment line over the next 6+ months if things do not begin improving soon.

[cruisinpips]

Not sure how “the ambulance chasers” find this as surprising news.... how many ships were scrapped or sold? How many cruises are cancelled for who knows how long..? What are they supposed to do with the employees? Firms like this “law firm” are a real problem in our society... 

Edited September 21, 2020 by cruisinpips

[BlerkOne]

Cruise lines didn't receive bailouts like airlines and others have (multiple times over the years).

[xDisconnections]

1 hour ago, BlerkOne said:

Cruise lines didn't receive bailouts like airlines and others have (multiple times over the years).

Why can't Panama, Liberia, Malta, Bermuda, United Kingdom, the Netherlands and the Bahamas provide bailouts... specifically Panama and Liberia? Why should it be us if the corporations aren't incorporated in our country and have their ships registered elsewhere?

Edited September 22, 2020 by xDisconnections

[BlerkOne]

Just now, xDisconnections said:

Why can't Panama, Liberia, Malta, Bermuda, United Kingdom, the Netherlands and the Bahamas provide bailouts... specifically Panama and Liberia? Why should it be us if the corporations aren't incorporated in our country?

 

How much revenue does Panama receive from cruise lines compared to how much the US receive in jobs, taxes, and trickle down effects?

 

The better question is why should the US bailout mismanaged US corporations - specifically airlines that still haven't learned their lesson?

[xDisconnections]

9 minutes ago, BlerkOne said:

 

How much revenue does Panama receive from cruise lines compared to how much the US receive in jobs, taxes, and trickle down effects?

 

The better question is why should the US bailout mismanaged US corporations - specifically airlines that still haven't learned their lesson?

Not sure how much revenue Panama receives nor do I actually care. I understand how much our economy benefits from the cruise lines, especially as my professional industry is directly impacted by the cruise industry due to them being connected. It doesn't change the fact these companies are not incorporated in the United States and it's my personal opinion where I believe they shouldn't receive any financial assistance from us.

 

At least the airlines are American companies and even though they didn't learn their lesson as in the past, they do support many of the modern and essential needs of the American traveler, whether it's business or leisure.

Edited September 22, 2020 by xDisconnections

[BlerkOne]

7 minutes ago, xDisconnections said:

 

At least the airlines are American companies and even though they didn't learn their lesson as in the past, they do support many of the modern and essential needs of the American traveler, whether it's business or leisure.

 

Likely only because of cabotage laws - airlines are limited to 25% foreign ownership. I'm of the opinion fool me once, no more bailouts. And no stock buybacks allowed.

[stobe1]

27 minutes ago, BlerkOne said:

 

How much revenue does Panama receive from cruise lines compared to how much the US receive in jobs, taxes, and trickle down effects?

 

The better question is why should the US bailout mismanaged US corporations - specifically airlines that still haven't learned their lesson?

In no way am I trying to get into an argument here and I hope this response isn't taken or misconstrued as such.  But what lesson are you referring to?  Do you have any idea the cost to operate a single flight between LAX and JFK?  I can tell you that airlines operate on razor thin margins and rely on volume to make profits.  The economics of airlines are very fragile and always have been.  Anyone that flies recreationally knows how expensive the costs are to fly for fun are.  The costs of flying an A321 or a B737 is exponentially more expensive. 

 

Airlines rarely charge what it actually costs to fly one person in one seat per mile known as CASM, or Cost per Available Seat Mile, from Point A to Point B.  They make that gap up from ancillary revenue like charging for bags, on board alcohol and food sales, upgrades and credit card programs.  Everyone complains about the "nickel and diming" but in reality the actual fare that was paid probably did not nearly cover the cost to get that passenger where they needed to  go from A to B.  Also, airlines are highly regulated by the FAA, DOT and DOJ which makes it even more expensive to just abide by the regulatory environment. As you can imagine, airline travel is a highly price sensitive and cost competitive market.

 

When revenues go away like we have seen the past 6+ months the entire system is unsustainable, no matter how well managed the airline is.  At the start of the pandemic, I was flying airplanes around with only 5 to 10 people on them.  Load factors have slowly picked up but it is no where near pre-Corona levels and likely will not be for a long time to come.  Just like many industries, the air transport system is vital to our nation's economy due to the need to transport cargo, mail and of course people.  

 

I am more than happy to go into a deeper dissertation on airline economics if you would like.  But calling the airlines in today's world as "mismanaged" is a bit unfair.

Edited September 22, 2020 by stobe1

[stobe1]

4 minutes ago, BlerkOne said:

 

Likely only because of cabotage laws - airlines are limited to 25% foreign ownership. I'm of the opinion fool me once, no more bailouts. And no stock buybacks allowed.

Cabotage has nothing to do with foreign ownership of airlines. Those are 2 completely separate issues.