When Will The CDC Publish Their New Guidelines?

[K32682]

19 hours ago, jimbo5544 said:

Never understood the analogy philosophy, but the one you make is totally ridiculous and jaded.  

 

Cruise ships and long term care homes have many similarities including an older more vulnerable population often with mobility challenges who live in close quarters in accommodation that is often shared.  They both  dine communally, participate in group activities and excursions, frequently contend with viral infections that quickly spread among them and are taken care of by poorly-paid front line staff often drawn from developing countries.

 

The age demographic is somewhat lower but the physical and living environment environments have notable similarities to a long term care home.  

 

Edited October 2, 2020 by K32682

[jimbo5544]

1 hour ago, K32682 said:

 

Cruise ships and long term care homes have many similarities including an older more vulnerable population often with mobility challenges who live in close quarters in accommodation that is often shared.  They both  dine communally, participate in group activities and excursions, frequently contend with viral infections that quickly spread among them and are taken care of by poorly-paid front line staff often drawn from developing countries.

 

The age demographic is somewhat lower but the physical and living environment environments have notable similarities to a long term care home.  

 

I will make this post and then move on.  The age demographics are way different, the average age of cruisers is probably 30 years younger.  Living conditions are nothing like each other.  The vast majority of cruisers do not have mobility issues (not sure what the reference point of that is anyway).  You tried to imply that cruising had the same opportunity for Covid as assisted living and that is simply not true.

[clo]

1 hour ago, jimbo5544 said:

You tried to imply that cruising had the same opportunity for Covid as assisted living and that is simply not true.

Could you please provide reputable and verifiable citation to support this. "Simply not true" is a far cry from IMO.

[jimbo5544]

1 minute ago, clo said:

Could you please provide reputable and verifiable citation to support this. "Simply not true" is a far cry from IMO.

Ok...imo.  Hope that helps.  

[clo]

27 minutes ago, jimbo5544 said:

Ok...imo.  Hope that helps.  

Actually it does. Thanks.

[neverbeenhere]

Getting accurate age levels in long term care or assisted living facilities is pretty hard. If you've been on a few longer cruises, you would swear the median age on the cruises was older.

 

Stay well, party like there is no tomorrow.

[K32682]

3 hours ago, jimbo5544 said:

I will make this post and then move on.  The age demographics are way different, the average age of cruisers is probably 30 years younger.  Living conditions are nothing like each other.  The vast majority of cruisers do not have mobility issues (not sure what the reference point of that is anyway).  You tried to imply that cruising had the same opportunity for Covid as assisted living and that is simply not true.

 

I did not imply that cruising "had the same opportunity for COVID as assisted living."  I simply pointed out the similarities between long term care facilities and cruise ships, similarities that do not exist to anywhere near the same degree among other travel modes.

 

Cruise lines and long term care homes were both hit harder by COVID.  Therefore it makes eminent sense that government regulators hold both to higher standards in preventing the spread of the virus.    

[iancal]

I believe that it is pointless to speculate.  There are so many moving parts to this that vary from one part of the world to another.

 

Besides, each person will ultimately decide what is best for them based on the information available.  I cannot see anyone rushing out to buy or board a cruise simply because some Government agency has lifted a ban or made a statement. 

 

 At the end of the day who on earth would risk their heath and well being on what any cheesy politician might proclaim.   

 

Hopefully most people will make the decision based on the best science and the best medical knowledge available.   Ouiji boards and promises to not fall into that category. 

Edited October 2, 2020 by iancal

[ldubs]

8 hours ago, jimbo5544 said:

I will make this post and then move on.  The age demographics are way different, the average age of cruisers is probably 30 years younger.  Living conditions are nothing like each other.  The vast majority of cruisers do not have mobility issues (not sure what the reference point of that is anyway).  You tried to imply that cruising had the same opportunity for Covid as assisted living and that is simply not true.

 

No, for the reasons you give, I don't think it is true either.  However, I think cruise ship populations would have a higher number of just about every at-risk factor compared to the general population.    Because of that I think there would be a higher opportunity for covid.  

[ilikeanswers]

On 10/2/2020 at 10:58 PM, jimbo5544 said:

The vast majority of cruisers do not have mobility issues 

 

That may be true but in my experience compared to other forms of travel cruising definitely has a higher population of people with mobility issues. Cruise ships have specially designed disabled cabins so there is clearly a demand. Even on the forums of CC I have read many posters who say they cruise because they have mobility issues and it is the only achievable form of travel. 

Edited October 3, 2020 by ilikeanswers

[ontheweb]

23 minutes ago, ilikeanswers said:

 

That may be true but in my experience compared to other forms of travel cruising definitely has a higher population of people with mobility issues. Cruise ships have specially designed disabled cabins so there is clearly a demand. Even on the forums of CC I have read many posters who say they cruise because they have mobility issues and it is the only achievable form of travel. 

Are there really that many designated disabled cabins? It seems to me that there is every now and then a post that someone had to book very, very early since they needed one of those cabins. Also do some cruise lines have a higher percentage of those cabins than other lines? Just curious.

[cruisemom42]

10 minutes ago, ontheweb said:

Are there really that many designated disabled cabins? 

 

It's a fair question, but not all who are disabled or impaired need to book those cabins.

 

There are certainly far more people on cruises that I've been on (with exception of Voyages to Antiquity), when compared with land tours,  who use scooters, walkers and other aids to mobility that would preclude active touring. It's not unusual on a HAL or Princess cruise to find 7-10 "scooters" parked at the back of the ship theatre during shows.

Edited October 3, 2020 by cruisemom42

[jimbo5544]

33 minutes ago, cruisemom42 said:

 

It's a fair question, but not all who are disabled or impaired need to book those cabins.

 

There are certainly far more people on cruises that I've been on (with exception of Voyages to Antiquity), when compared with land tours,  who use scooters, walkers and other aids to mobility that would preclude active touring. It's not unusual on a HAL or Princess cruise to find 7-10 "scooters" parked at the back of the ship theatre during shows.

I would wager that overall, it is more than opposite what you post.

[clo]

1 hour ago, ilikeanswers said:

 

That may be true but in my experience compared to other forms of travel cruising definitely has a higher population of people with mobility issues. Cruise ships have specially designed disabled cabins so there is clearly a demand. Even on the forums of CC I have read many posters who say they cruise because they have mobility issues and it is the only achievable form of travel. 

I think that's correct. We've done a number of land tours with Gate 1 and they're quite specific that they can't take on people in wheel chairs and the like. They're kind but clearl.

 

[clo]

2 minutes ago, jimbo5544 said:

I would wager that overall, it is more than opposite what you post.

She's comparing to land tours and I certainly agree with her.

[jimbo5544]

22 minutes ago, clo said:

She's comparing to land tours and I certainly agree with her.

Lol, well that settles it then.  Sent the people on the excursions the same as on the ship?  Maybe you notice the scooters more on an excursion?  Moving on....

[ilikeanswers]

1 hour ago, ontheweb said:

Are there really that many designated disabled cabins? It seems to me that there is every now and then a post that someone had to book very, very early since they needed one of those cabins. Also do some cruise lines have a higher percentage of those cabins than other lines? Just curious.

 

If you have to book early to secure one that sounds like pretty high demand. It would be interesting to know what the percentage of cabins are designated disabled on ships🤔. I have never counted or thought that deeply about it till now😝. It has surprised me to see them on expedition cruises. Usually activities are physically demanding on these cruises yet it seems even in this market there is enough demand to make disabled cabins. 

[ilikeanswers]

37 minutes ago, jimbo5544 said:

Lol, well that settles it then.  Sent the people on the excursions the same as on the ship?  Maybe you notice the scooters more on an excursion?  Moving on....

 

I think you misunderstood. The land tours we are referring to are things like multi day bus tours not shore excursions. 

[jimbo5544]

17 minutes ago, ilikeanswers said:

 

I think you misunderstood. The land tours we are referring to are things like multi day bus tours not shore excursions. 

Ahhh. Got it, understand and agree.  

[clo]

1 hour ago, ilikeanswers said:

 

I think you misunderstood. The land tours we are referring to are things like multi day bus tours not shore excursions. 

Or multi week.  We spent almost  a month in SE Asia.

[ontheweb]

3 hours ago, ilikeanswers said:

 

If you have to book early to secure one that sounds like pretty high demand. It would be interesting to know what the percentage of cabins are designated disabled on ships🤔. I have never counted or thought that deeply about it till now😝. It has surprised me to see them on expedition cruises. Usually activities are physically demanding on these cruises yet it seems even in this market there is enough demand to make disabled cabins. 

It could be high demand. Or it could be low supply. Or, of course, a combination of the two.

[SelectSys]

4 hours ago, ilikeanswers said:

 

... The land tours we are referring to are things like multi day bus tours not shore excursions. 

 

I have seen these, but have never had any desire whatsoever to partake in them.  I see these bus groups from time to time in hotel lobbies early in the day with their bags all lined up and haven't felt the urge to go.  From the outside looking in bus tours seem almost like a "forced march."

 

Who knows, maybe I would like bus tours as i was negative on cruising before going. Now I appreciate cruise travel as the most relaxing form of vacation on a moveable resort with changing scenery and attractions.

Edited October 3, 2020 by SelectSys

[clo]

42 minutes ago, SelectSys said:

 

I have seen these, but have never had any desire whatsoever to partake in them.  I see these bus groups from time to time in hotel lobbies early in the day with their bags all lined up and haven't felt the urge to go.  From the outside looking in bus tours seem almost like a "forced march."

 

Who knows, maybe I would like bus tours as i was negative on cruising before going. Now I appreciate cruise travel as the most relaxing form of vacation on a moveable resort with changing scenery and attractions.

We've done a half dozen or so escorted land tours and most of our guides have been truly phenomenal. We learned so much. Their English was terrific. One could even tell jokes in English that were actually funny. One brought on a couple of newspapers several days to tell us about what was going on there. One had a doctorate in economics and had taught at the university...and made more money and had more fun. We MAY have stopped doing them because we wanted more free time than they had built into the days. We like to mingle with the locals, eat at non-touristy restaurants, etc. And that can be an issue with cruise tours and may be even more so going forward.

[cruisemom42]

8 hours ago, SelectSys said:

 

 From the outside looking in bus tours seem almost like a "forced march."

 

Who knows, maybe I would like bus tours as i was negative on cruising before going. Now I appreciate cruise travel as the most relaxing form of vacation on a moveable resort with changing scenery and attractions.

 

These tours are not generally relaxing, if that's what you prefer.  I like them, but then I'm one that isn't a big fan of sea days or a lot of relaxing "down time".  On the other hand, if you choose well, you learn a lot more about the place(s) you're visiting and also get a chance to enjoy them in the evening -- often when the other 'day trippers' and cruisers are gone, there is a completely different vibe.

 

7 hours ago, clo said:

We've done a half dozen or so escorted land tours and most of our guides have been truly phenomenal. We learned so much. Their English was terrific. One could even tell jokes in English that were actually funny. One brought on a couple of newspapers several days to tell us about what was going on there. One had a doctorate in economics and had taught at the university...and made more money and had more fun. We MAY have stopped doing them because we wanted more free time than they had built into the days. We like to mingle with the locals, eat at non-touristy restaurants, etc. And that can be an issue with cruise tours and may be even more so going forward.

 

I started out doing tours like Gate 1 (which we already discussed), but I have found there are tours available that cater to specific interests, have smaller groups, really excellent guides, and often allow for more free time. They are still more strenuous than a cruise, however.

 

For example, last year I did a walking tour of Hadrian's Wall in England -- very small group, we stayed in a castle, visited a wonderful variety of pubs and local breweries plus well-known "farm to table" restaurants, and enjoyed an expert guide and special access to sites. 

 

I've also taken a trip to Roman Campania (Pompeii, Herculaneum, Oplontis, Capri) with a true expert, a Yale professor, who specializes in Roman art and architecture. I'd taken her online course and as a result had an opportunity to sign up for the tour. She is amazing; thinks nothing of standing for 2 hours in front of a fresco at the site and lecturing. Not for everyone, of course...  But there are companies that cater to foodies, opera-lovers, photographers, oenophiles, gardeners, and people interested in the history and/or art of various eras.

 

One reason I take these tours is not because I couldn't do them on my own (and often I know most of the history) but because it is the best way I've found to get access to sites that are off-limits to normal tourists. It's also a good way to meet fellow enthusiasts.

[clo]

9 hours ago, cruisemom42 said:

I started out doing tours like Gate 1 (which we already discussed), but I have found there are tours available that cater to specific interests, have smaller groups, really excellent guides, and often allow for more free time. They are still more strenuous than a cruise, however.

 

And we may look into those at some point. I specifically remember our Turkey trip. We covered A LOT of ground so had very long days. By the time we finished up the group stuff for the day, we were pooped. Now Israel, being the size of New Jersay, was a lot more doable. But aren't we lucky to have so many choices.

 

Thanks, as usual, for weighing in.