90% effective vaccine EVEN without booster shot...

[MaritimeR&R]

Not sure if that is great news for all. There have been rumors that once a vaccine becomes readily available, RC or many of the ports that they visit will require that passengers be inoculated in order to board the ship. Since he three main pharmaceutical companies have not included children in their testing and have stated that a vaccine for children will not be available until the earliest late 2021 but more likely sometime in 2022 and RC has been promoting "kids sail free," it would seem that many of the "safeguards:" social distancing, masks, etc. will have to remain in force for a long time.  Herd immunity takes quite awhile.  

[MaritimeR&R]

On 11/9/2020 at 10:06 AM, orville99 said:

Simple, it came directly from the mouth of Pfizer's CEO this morning. If you read that article carefully, you will see that the Government promised to purchase ~$2 billion worth of Pfizer's vaccine if (and only if) it was proven effective. Pfizer rejected the government offer of developmen funding and was not a participant in Warp Speed. 

On this morning's news, the validity of the data surrounding the efficacy of Pfizer's vaccine has come into question.  Apparently, the efficacy of the dosages given to each of the test groups varied, with those receiving 1/2 dose first and a full dose second being greater (90%) versus those who received two full doses (only 60% efficacy). In addition, the ages of those in the test groups were not the same  and could be a contributing factor to the published results.  This is being touted as the reason for Pfizer not applying for the emergency release.

[Milwaukee Eight]

1 hour ago, nomad098 said:

 

From the CDC

 

The CDC has changed the IFR values of Covid-19 into age-specific estimates, which are now very low at 0.003% for 0–19 years, 0.02% for 20–49 years, 0.5% for 50–69 years, and 5.4% for 70+ years.

 

Take your pick on which are correct. At the end of the day they are all only best guess scenarios based on available data that may or may not be completely accurate. 

 

I was just pointing out where the poster got his figures from and what the WHO have agreed.

 

The Lancet paper you quoted is not peer reviewed, only deals with the outbreak in New York state and is only reflective of that area. This is in no way reflective of a pandemic on a global scale. The figures also include probable cause of death which may skew the figures.

 

I was also under the mistaken belief that Lancet papers were peer reviewed papers but apparently this is not the case

This proves one thing,  it sucks to get old. 😇

Edited November 29, 2020 by Milwaukee Eight

[bouhunter]

8 minutes ago, Milwaukee Eight said:

This proves one thing,  it sucks to get old. 😇

But it's better than the alternative 🙂

 

[A&L_Ont]

18 minutes ago, MaritimeR&R said:

On this morning's news, the validity of the data surrounding the efficacy of Pfizer's vaccine has come into question.  Apparently, the efficacy of the dosages given to each of the test groups varied, with those receiving 1/2 dose first and a full dose second being greater (90%) versus those who received two full doses (only 60% efficacy). In addition, the ages of those in the test groups were not the same  and could be a contributing factor to the published results.  This is being touted as the reason for Pfizer not applying for the emergency release.

I believe you have them confused with AstraZeneca.

 

https://www.ctvnews.ca/health/coronavirus/astrazeneca-says-its-vaccine-needs-additional-study-1.5206091

 

[MaritimeR&R]

Just now, A&L_Ont said:

I believe you have them confused with AstraZeneca.

 

https://www.ctvnews.ca/health/coronavirus/astrazeneca-says-its-vaccine-needs-additional-study-1.5206091

 

You may be right, I am old and was listening to my cable news at 3am as I had just awakened. I thought I heard the broadcaster say Pfizer. So, either she was wrong or me.  More than likely, me.  

[BND]

5 hours ago, sgmn said:

But the problem is a lot of the people who recover have had extensive treatment in hospital with pain and suffering and often with 'long covid' afterwards. If we don't get this under control we are going to have to permanently increase our hospital capacity to ensure there are enough beds, especially in the flu season.  I know of cancer sufferers who have had their treatment put on hold and immune compromised who have had to self isolate for 9 months. We all want to get our lives back to what they were like before, and immunisation for all is the best way. 

What do you mean by a lot?  Most people recover fine at home. It's a very small percentage that have to be hospitalized and even less in ICU.  Yes, they can be overwhelmed by the numbers, but it's not the vast majority of cases.  Our hospitals in the DC area have never been near capacity.  We have several friends being treated for cancer and no one has had their treatment interrupted.  People with immune issues always have to be careful. I agree immunization is the best way.  I never said anything different.  If you read my other posts on this topic on CC, you'll see I am very pro vaccine. People, all I really said was that I know people who have had it and recovered and that the recovery rate is 99% below age 80.  Both of those are true.

Edited November 29, 2020 by BND

[BND]

I do think some people are intentionally obtuse so they can argue with someone.  

[ace2542]

56 minutes ago, MaritimeR&R said:

Not sure if that is great news for all. There have been rumors that once a vaccine becomes readily available, RC or many of the ports that they visit will require that passengers be inoculated in order to board the ship. Since he three main pharmaceutical companies have not included children in their testing and have stated that a vaccine for children will not be available until the earliest late 2021 but more likely sometime in 2022 and RC has been promoting "kids sail free," it would seem that many of the "safeguards:" social distancing, masks, etc. will have to remain in force for a long time.  Herd immunity takes quite awhile.  

They will probably go to adult only sailings for a while then risk an outbreak from or among kids. There is also the thought that not all countries will see schoolkids vaccinated period end of discussion. And if that happens I don't see how cruiselines can go against a  Goverment's policy. UK Government have for the moment won't vaccine the schoolkids. And that might not change. These vaccination policies could cause a lot of trouble in the world even start the slide to word war 3. And masks will be worn on cruise ships forever even after the vaccination.

Edited November 29, 2020 by ace2542

[bouhunter]

10 minutes ago, BND said:

What do you mean by a lot?  Most people recover fine at home. It's a very small percentage that have to be hospitalized and even less in ICU.  Yes, they can be overwhelmed by the numbers, but it's not the vast majority of cases.  Our hospitals in the DC area have never been near capacity.  We have several friends being treated for cancer and no one has had their treatment interrupted.  People with immune issues always have to be careful. I agree immunization is the best way.  I never said anything different.  If you read my other posts on this topic on CC, you'll see I am very pro vaccine. People, all I really said was that I know people who have had it and recovered and that the recovery rate is 99% below age 80.  Both of those are true.

Good reply and good points.  But it's a waste of time debating someone who wants to bring up "long covid".  A sign they've bought into the fear and doom 100%.

Edited November 29, 2020 by bouhunter

[Dinglebert]

12 minutes ago, BND said:

I do think some people are intentionally obtuse so they can argue with someone.  

That is a very obtuse statement.

[firefly333]

14 minutes ago, ace2542 said:

UK Government have for the moment won't vaccine the schoolkids. And that might not change. These vaccination policies could cause a lot of trouble in the world even start the slide to word war 3. And masks will be worn on cruise ships forever even after the vaccination.

I heard only ages 12 and up were studied and for now that's who will be on the list. 

 

Was that a typo word war 3? I sometimes feel like everyone so bored it is a word war here too.

[orville99]

1 hour ago, MaritimeR&R said:

On this morning's news, the validity of the data surrounding the efficacy of Pfizer's vaccine has come into question.  Apparently, the efficacy of the dosages given to each of the test groups varied, with those receiving 1/2 dose first and a full dose second being greater (90%) versus those who received two full doses (only 60% efficacy). In addition, the ages of those in the test groups were not the same  and could be a contributing factor to the published results.  This is being touted as the reason for Pfizer not applying for the emergency release.

The data you are quoting is from Astra Zeneca's trials, not Pfizer's. 

[A&L_Ont]

24 minutes ago, firefly333 said:

I heard only ages 12 and up were studied and for now that's who will be on the list. 

 

Was that a typo word war 3? I sometimes feel like everyone so bored it is a word war here too.

12 and up have been included in the study. Not sure about the WW3 comment either. 🤷‍♂️
 

https://www.npr.org/sections/health-shots/2020/10/13/923248377/will-kids-get-a-covid-19-vaccine-pfizer-to-expand-trial-to-ages-12-and-up

Edited November 29, 2020 by A&L_Ont

[orville99]

40 minutes ago, ace2542 said:

They will probably go to adult only sailings for a while then risk an outbreak from or among kids. There is also the thought that not all countries will see schoolkids vaccinated period end of discussion. And if that happens I don't see how cruiselines can go against a  Goverment's policy. UK Government have for the moment won't vaccine the schoolkids. And that might not change. These vaccination policies could cause a lot of trouble in the world even start the slide to word war 3. And masks will be worn on cruise ships forever even after the vaccination.

A wise old sage once said, "the man who is certain about everything is certainly mistaken about most things." 

[nomad098]

1 hour ago, Dinglebert said:

According to them they are peer reviewed

 

https://www.thelancet.com/lancet/about

 

My apologies I see they have tightened up their policies after they had to retract a non reviewed paper.

 

However the link you posted goes to a preprint with a DOI designation which means it has not been peer reviewed but is awaiting the process to be published. 

 

https://www.thelancet.com/preprints

 

[ace2542]

2 hours ago, A&L_Ont said:

12 and up have been included in the study. Not sure about the WW3 comment either. 🤷‍♂️
 

https://www.npr.org/sections/health-shots/2020/10/13/923248377/will-kids-get-a-covid-19-vaccine-pfizer-to-expand-trial-to-ages-12-and-up

IF the AZ vaccine is rejected for entry to the USA denying entry to the younger people. There will be massive anti American blacklash in the UK and other countries as I am sure. It would probably lead to the breakdown of relations for good. Breakup of Nato even who knows? And that is all that keeps the Russians at bay. Dunno about world war 3 but the political map would be redrawn forever. We would never fight another American led war again that is for sure. 

 

I have heard no plans to vaccinate schoolchildren in the UK. Which will be interesting IF Governments like the US, Australia or even in Europe insist upon it.

[firefly333]

2 minutes ago, ace2542 said:

IF the AZ vaccine is rejected for entry to the USA denying entry to the younger people. There will be massive anti American blacklash in the UK and other countries as I am sure. It would probably lead to the breakdown of relations for good. Breakup of Nato even who knows? And that is all that keeps the Russians at bay. Dunno about world war 3 but the political map would be redrawn forever. We would never fight another American led war again that is for sure. 

 

I have heard no plans to vaccinate schoolchildren in the UK. Which will be interesting IF Governments like the US, Australia or even in Europe insist upon it.

Did you read the link? It said nothing about a PLAN for children, only that testing was extended to children age 12 and up, to allow them to get it if they wished. It said before the clinical research only included age 16 and up. What do you have against allowing research for age 12 and up?

 

You sound like you think it's about some forced vaccination of children. 

[ace2542]

1 minute ago, firefly333 said:

Did you read the link? It said nothing about a PLAN for children, only that testing was extended to children age 12 and up, to allow them to get it if they wished. It said before the clinical research only included age 16 and up. What do you have against allowing research for age 12 and up?

 

You sound like you think it's about some forced vaccination of children. 

Well I never had a choice at school my jabs were just done. Providing they have the option the may need it.

[firefly333]

Just now, ace2542 said:

Well I never had a choice at school my jabs were just done. Providing they have the option the may need it.

Lots of anti vaccers here who dont vaccinate their kids. Religious and other reasons allowed here.

 

 

[ace2542]

2 minutes ago, firefly333 said:

Lots of anti vaccers here who dont vaccinate their kids. Religious and other reasons allowed here.

 

 

I am sure they are allowed in UK as well. But in terms of travel could be interesting Australia is already saying quarantine and wear and ankle bracelet if no vaccination. But who can afford to do that for 2 weeks and then have the holiday?

[not-enough-cruising]

15 minutes ago, ace2542 said:

IF the AZ vaccine is rejected for entry to the USA denying entry to the younger people. There will be massive anti American blacklash in the UK and other countries as I am sure. It would probably lead to the breakdown of relations for good. Breakup of Nato even who knows? And that is all that keeps the Russians at bay. Dunno about world war 3 but the political map would be redrawn forever. We would never fight another American led war again that is for sure. 

This sounds like a pitch for a new spy film.

[Ourusualbeach]

Just now, not-enough-cruising said:

This sounds like a pitch for a new spy film.

Pure fiction 

[ace2542]

25 minutes ago, not-enough-cruising said:

This sounds like a pitch for a new spy film.

No it is actually what nearly happened after the liquid drinks bomb plot in 2006. The first head of Homeland Security wanted to remove the UK of the visa waiver program which would have been an extraordinary slap in the face to your closest ally. His recommendation to do was rejected. Relations would have been destroyed if that had happened. The anti American blacklash in UK would have been enormous. FWIW it might have been difficult for younger people to obtain U.S tourist visas and repeated applications make you look desperate

Edited November 29, 2020 by ace2542

[A&L_Ont]

30 minutes ago, not-enough-cruising said:

This sounds like a pitch for a new spy film.

Bourne Vaccine?
 

I guess we should all use the Russian Vaccine.  It’s cheap, 95% effective и действительно, что могло пойти не так?😂