Can Carnival have a few sailings just for those who have been Vaccinated?

[Butterbean1000]

1 hour ago, Butterbean1000 said:

How long will the vaccine last?  

This from the FDA website:

 

WHAT IS THE PFIZER-BIONTECH COVID-19 VACCINE? The Pfizer-BioNTech COVID-19 Vaccine is an unapproved vaccine that may prevent COVID-19. There is no FDA-approved vaccine to prevent COVID-19.

 

Revised: December 2020

 

I'll take my chances with natures immunity than to put something in my body that has not guarantees.  Also this is so politicized that I have problems trusting much of what is being cirrulated.

[TNcruising02]

The good thing about the vaccine is that adults can decide for themselves if it is right for them.  People who don't trust the vaccine can opt out.  The islands, airlines, cruise ships, etc, can decide for themselves if they will require proof of vaccinations, covid testing, or whatever, to travel.  I am fine with that.

[Butterbean1000]

13 minutes ago, TNcruising02 said:

The good thing about the vaccine is that adults can decide for themselves if it is right for them.  People who don't trust the vaccine can opt out.  The islands, airlines, cruise ships, etc, can decide for themselves if they will require proof of vaccinations, covid testing, or whatever, to travel.  I am fine with that.

The FDA says 16 years old is the youngest to get the vaccine. 

[TNcruising02]

23 minutes ago, Butterbean1000 said:

The FDA says 16 years old is the youngest to get the vaccine. 

Right. I think they are just beginning to test the vaccine with children.  
One of my sons just recovered from covid.  He had extremely mild symptoms and was able to continue working remotely and also working out the entire time. He is in his 20s.  His wife had no symptoms and does not plan to get the vaccine.  

I don't know what will happen for people who have children and want to travel if there are vaccination requirements.  Maybe vaccinating adults will get the numbers down low enough so that children won't need to get it.  If my kids were under 16, I would definitely not plan on vaccinating them as I don't see the need.

Edited December 13, 2020 by TNcruising02

[BlerkOne]

3 hours ago, Butterbean1000 said:

This from the FDA website:

 

WHAT IS THE PFIZER-BIONTECH COVID-19 VACCINE? The Pfizer-BioNTech COVID-19 Vaccine is an unapproved vaccine that may prevent COVID-19. There is no FDA-approved vaccine to prevent COVID-19.

 

Revised: December 2020

 

I'll take my chances with natures immunity than to put something in my body that has not guarantees.  Also this is so politicized that I have problems trusting much of what is being cirrulated.

 

There is CURRENTLY no approved c19 vaccine. One was only recently approved for EMERGENCY use. It will still be a while before any are fully approved.

[Butterbean1000]

14 minutes ago, TNcruising02 said:

Right. I think they are just beginning to test the vaccine with children.  
One of my sons just recovered from covid.  He had extremely mild symptoms and was able to continue working remotely and also working out the entire time. He is in his 20s.  His wife had no symptoms and does not plan to get the vaccine.  

I don't know what will happen for people who have children and want to travel if there are vaccination requirements.  Maybe vaccinating adults will get the numbers down low enough so that children won't need to get it.  If my kids were under 16, I would definitely not plan on vaccinating them as I don't see the need.

My 77 year old sister and i came down with it the same time.  I'm 11 years younger than her.  I got pretty sick.  She spiked a fever of 100 for a day.  That was her only symptom.  My 29 year son had it in July,  he never ran a fever.  

[Butterbean1000]

16 minutes ago, BlerkOne said:

 

There is CURRENTLY no approved c19 vaccine. One was only recently approved for EMERGENCY use. It will still be a while before any are fully approved.

Exactly. They don't know the long term effects.  

Edited December 13, 2020 by Butterbean1000

[Tippyton]

23 hours ago, Butterbean1000 said:

I worry about how fast they developed and released this vaccine. It usually takes years to develop and test vaccines before releasing a medicine.  How can they know long term effects?  I can see the commercials years from now.."did you have the covid vaccine and did you experience blah, blah and Blah? If so, contact our law firm, Dewey, Cheatum and How". I'm glad for my natural immunity.

 

RE: Immunity 👍

[St.Pete]

21 hours ago, TNcruising02 said:

The alternative is to let the virus continue to rage and for older, high risk people to continue to die.  The good thing about the vaccine is that nobody will be forced to get it and that the people who don't get it will benefit from those who do.  I think it's a good thing and people can decide for themselves.

The sad part is the "new guy" (Emmanuel) suggests the elderly are not worth saving.

[Fredette]

On 12/6/2020 at 2:25 PM, Elaine5715 said:

The ADA does not permit one to assume or treat another based on an assumption of illness. 

There's a whole big world outside of the USA - even if the ADA applied to ships leaving American ports, it won't apply to ships leaving Non-American ports, will it?

Remember that ships visit ports too - and those ports (in other countries) have the ability to refuse docking if they suspect illness on a ship.

If the cruise line can't demonstrate that all precautions have been taken - docking will be refused.

[auburn77]

On 12/4/2020 at 9:27 PM, Earthworm Jim said:

 

From what I understand (not much) the decline in antibodies doesn't necessarily imply a decline in immunity:

 

By measuring antibody titres, these studies do not capture the matter of immunological memory at both a B cell and T cell level. The adaptive immune system works by building a memory that determines how rapidly your body can respond to an invading pathogen upon second exposure. So while antibodies do wane over time, which is not unexpected, this memory aspect of the immune response does not. 

 

https://www.biospace.com/article/do-waning-covid-19-antibodies-mean-loss-of-immunity-/

I had it in April and got a positive test for antibodies in May. I tried to give plasma, but my iron was too low. Tried again in July and they said that my antibody count was too low, not that I didn't have any antibodies. My brother was a cellular biology professor and he told me that I probably still had T cells that would protect me.

If you keep up with it, you will find that very very few contract it a second time.

[grammymarcia]

On 12/13/2020 at 7:47 AM, St.Pete said:

The sad part is the "new guy" (Emmanuel) suggests the elderly are not worth saving.

I believe the quote was "Living past age 75 has little value and robs society".

[ProgRockCruiser]

On 12/11/2020 at 11:07 PM, Butterbean1000 said:

I worry about how fast they developed and released this vaccine. It usually takes years to develop and test vaccines before releasing a medicine.  How can they know long term effects?  I can see the commercials years from now.."did you have the covid vaccine and did you experience blah, blah and Blah? If so, contact our law firm, Dewey, Cheatum and How". I'm glad for my natural immunity.

 

The current round of vaccines were developed from vaccines already in-work (and new vaccine-related "technology") or under study for previous, related, viruses - those viruses (SARS, MERS, and Ebola I think were examples) were no longer pandemic-inducing, so the work was not fast-tracked, highly funded, nor widely discussed in the media.

 

Once funding for the COVID-19 vaccine program started flowing, it allowed a very focused development.

 

The relatively-new ability to sequence an entire genome in minutes/hours has also helped.  

 

This article about the Oxford/AtraZeneca vaccine helps explain some of it:

 

https://www.bbc.com/news/health-55041371

 

And finally, vaccines are not like drugs, which are the primary "fall-guy" for those lawyer-funded TV ads.  Drugs are a long-term medicine, and thus can have significant issues if not studied for a long time over a wide variety of population.  Vaccines are one-and-done type deals (maybe two shots, maybe annually, or every ten years, etc).  

[jetsfan58]

No way. The Cruise Lines will be opening them selves up to additional scrutiny and more bad press. If you have the funds to pay for a cruise then everyone should be allowed on any cruise at any time; regardless of this rushed vaccine.

[ninjacat123]

3 hours ago, ProgRockCruiser said:

The current round of vaccines were developed from vaccines already in-work (and new vaccine-related "technology") or under study for previous, related, viruses - those viruses (SARS, MERS, and Ebola I think were examples) were no longer pandemic-inducing, so the work was not fast-tracked, highly funded, nor widely discussed in the media.

 

Once funding for the COVID-19 vaccine program started flowing, it allowed a very focused development.

 

The relatively-new ability to sequence an entire genome in minutes/hours has also helped.  

 

This article about the Oxford/AtraZeneca vaccine helps explain some of it:

 

https://www.bbc.com/news/health-55041371

 

And finally, vaccines are not like drugs, which are the primary "fall-guy" for those lawyer-funded TV ads.  Drugs are a long-term medicine, and thus can have significant issues if not studied for a long time over a wide variety of population.  Vaccines are one-and-done type deals (maybe two shots, maybe annually, or every ten years, etc).  

Thanks for posting this link!  Well-written article that explains the process in easy-to-understand language.

[mpk]

On 12/12/2020 at 1:35 PM, Butterbean1000 said:

This from the FDA website:

 

WHAT IS THE PFIZER-BIONTECH COVID-19 VACCINE? The Pfizer-BioNTech COVID-19 Vaccine is an unapproved vaccine that may prevent COVID-19. There is no FDA-approved vaccine to prevent COVID-19.

 

Revised: December 2020

 

I'll take my chances with natures immunity than to put something in my body that has not guarantees.  Also this is so politicized that I have problems trusting much of what is being cirrulated.

 

Disclaimer- I don't want to get in the middle of this, I just want to read it for myself...

 

 

Where does this appear on fda.gov?  When I google (link) for "The Pfizer-BioNTech COVID-19 Vaccine is an unapproved vaccine that may prevent COVID-19", it shows only five results.  Someone's wordpress blog, a vegan website, and a few others.  Only a half page of results.

 

 

What I did find on fda.gov says otherwise:    (fda link)

Pfizer-BioNTech COVID-19 Vaccine

Authorized Use For the prevention of 2019 coronavirus disease (COVID-19) for individuals 16 years of age and older

.

Edited December 14, 2020 by mpk

[Butterbean1000]

6 hours ago, mpk said:

 

Disclaimer- I don't want to get in the middle of this, I just want to read it for myself...

 

 

Where does this appear on fda.gov?  When I google (link) for "The Pfizer-BioNTech COVID-19 Vaccine is an unapproved vaccine that may prevent COVID-19", it shows only five results.  Someone's wordpress blog, a vegan website, and a few others.  Only a half page of results.

 

 

What I did find on fda.gov says otherwise:    (fda link)

Pfizer-BioNTech COVID-19 Vaccine

Authorized Use For the prevention of 2019 coronavirus disease (COVID-19) for individuals 16 years of age and older

.

I went to the FDA website and did several searches.  Don't do a Google search, go straight to the FDA.

[lyannea]

On 12/12/2020 at 10:07 AM, BlerkOne said:

 

How long will that last?

I received an email today- as a health worker, I’m allowed to get the vaccine.

Please read the last paragraph-

from thé FDA

There’s no data in how long the vaccine is effective and no data on the transmission of the virus with the vaccine 

 

[KmomChicago]

On 12/4/2020 at 9:20 AM, fyree39 said:

On the contrary. They should have a few 3-day cruises a year for the anti-vaxxers/anti-maskers and let the rest of us cruise safely year round.

 

Unfair work practices for the crew, staff and officers.

[ProgRockCruiser]

3 hours ago, lyannea said:

I received an email today- as a health worker, I’m allowed to get the vaccine.

Please read the last paragraph-

from thé FDA

There’s no data in how long the vaccine is effective and no data on the transmission of the virus with the vaccine 

 

Just want to point out, what this really means is:

There’s no data yet in how long the vaccine is effective and no data yet on the transmission of the virus with the vaccine 

 

It isn't like the studies are all shutdown and no-one cares about gathering any more data.  These statements will be clarified once (if) the data shows a clear conclusion.

 

And if it only lasts a year, but enough people get it, the virus will subside, because the transmission vectors will have been significantly impaired.  It won't matter as much if the effectiveness wears off after a year if the virus has disappeared from the general populace.  And we can always get a booster shot, like the flu, except I would expect it will be much more effective (flu shot is, at best, 60% effective, IIRC, due to evolving strains and predicting which ones will be prevalent).

 

Just like the quotes from the FDA website on Saturday said there was no vaccine approved for use, that changed when it got approved.

[BlerkOne]

9 hours ago, ProgRockCruiser said:

 

Just like the quotes from the FDA website on Saturday said there was no vaccine approved for use, that changed when it got approved.

There is no vaccine approved for (general) use. It is COVID-19 Vaccines Authorized for Emergency Use. The vaccines have not satisfied all the requirements to be fully approved.

[ProgRockCruiser]

14 hours ago, BlerkOne said:

There is no vaccine approved for (general) use. It is COVID-19 Vaccines Authorized for Emergency Use. The vaccines have not satisfied all the requirements to be fully approved.

Concur.  Just trying to say the status of stuff changes over time.  

[stellarose]

between Moderna, Pfizer, and JJ- I think we are seeing the end of the tunnel. now we may need to wear a mask into the summer but those will fade away.  I am confident , hopefully, we will sail next Christmas/ New Years. 

[Honolulu Blue]

On 12/11/2020 at 11:27 AM, BlerkOne said:

I'm curious to see if Carnival requires it of crew. That seems to be a logical first step.

 

On 12/11/2020 at 11:07 PM, Butterbean1000 said:

I worry about how fast they developed and released this vaccine. It usually takes years to develop and test vaccines before releasing a medicine.  How can they know long term effects?  I can see the commercials years from now.."did you have the covid vaccine and did you experience blah, blah and Blah? If so, contact our law firm, Dewey, Cheatum and How". I'm glad for my natural immunity.

 

 

 

There's so much I could say on the subject of vaccines, but I'll limit myself to commenting on the two posts above.  And I'll try to be brief.

 

First of all, the crew.  It would definitely be nice if the crew were required to get vaccines, but where would they come from?  Most crew come from less developed countries, where (1) the countries are probably near the back of the line when it comes to getting the vaccine, and (2) the crew would probably be near the back of the line when it comes to prioritizing who would get it.  Would the crew line up at a local drugstore in the nearest developed port of call?  I think that would make some people here uncomfortable, especially if they're perceived to be forcing their way to the head of the line.  The cruise line's parent corporation could put in a block order directly with the manufacturer.  But their 50,000 to 200,000 dose order might be considered small potatoes on the world stage and they could be subject to long delays, high prices, or both.

 

And second, the long-term effects.  It's true we don't know the long-term effects of any of the vaccines.  We also don't know many the long-term effects of catching the virus.  One long-term effect of the virus that's starting to show up in the (relatively) short term is death.  Over a million people worldwide have died so far.  I rather doubt the group of vaccines that will be approved will kill, by themselves, a million people, but maybe I'm just a hopeless optimist.  😀  That's not to say that the vaccines won't have some nasty long-term side effects, but we haven't seen them so far, and it seems likely that they will be outweighed by the people who are saved directly and indirectly.  But we'll see.

[BlerkOne]

1 hour ago, Honolulu Blue said:

 

First of all, the crew.  It would definitely be nice if the crew were required to get vaccines, but where would they come from?  Most crew come from less developed countries, where (1) the countries are probably near the back of the line when it comes to getting the vaccine, and (2) the crew would probably be near the back of the line when it comes to prioritizing who would get it.  Would the crew line up at a local drugstore in the nearest developed port of call?  I think that would make some people here uncomfortable, especially if they're perceived to be forcing their way to the head of the line.  The cruise line's parent corporation could put in a block order directly with the manufacturer.  But their 50,000 to 200,000 dose order might be considered small potatoes on the world stage and they could be subject to long delays, high prices, or both.

 

Carnival provides the staff with healthcare, so I assume Carnival would pay for and handle the logistics. As the return to cruising will start slow, they wouldn't have to immunize everyone at the same tome.