Norwegian is looking into Covid-19 vaccine requirement

[Wedgie23]

13 hours ago, ziggyuk said:

I have no idea perhaps you can email Pfizer (as I have done with AstraZeneca when I need accurate information) and let us all know. You can flame everyone else's information to suit you own views as much as you want however:

@zdcatc12 is on the trial and shared the information (see link below) as I have shared information from the Oxford/AstraZeneca vaccine I am trailing.

I couldn't have been more respectful when posing my question, stated zero opinions in what you quoted only facts as far as I know them. Considering there are people on this board who stated they were in the trials then they are a source of direct information I as I'm sure many others personally haven't had access to ask questions of until now. If that is considered 'flaming' in your opinion then in my opinion you are part of the problem when people who have legitimate concerns aren't allowed to even ask questions otherwise they hint they haven't fully drunk the kool aid yet and are ripe for the picking of the flaming torch carrying mobs who have. 

 

Personally I have an autoimmune condition which causes my immune system to be overactive and attack my body even when 'healthy'. There is very little public information about what rna technology has done to people and their conditions long term in the same boat as me as it has never been approved before. What little I can find tells me autoimmune people should be steering clear of this. I had an anaphylaxis response to a vaccine once before, but I am far less concerned with needing a steroid injection to reverse that than I am with how this technology is going to interact with the condition I already have, considering there were already concerns about using mrna on autoimmune people before covid existed. That is a conversation that's going to be between me and my doctor, not me and the manager of a Chipolte whose demanding access to my private medical information in order to deny me service due to a condition I was born with which poses no danger to anyone but myself. 

 

Perhaps I have a unique perspective but I can certainly understand how everyday heathy people have their own concerns. There is not, nor will there be for years, sufficient data on what this could do to a pregnant woman for instance yet we see here they are already talking about clearing it for them when any logical person knows there simply hasn't been enough time to see that it's safe yet or even safer than contractive covid would have been. It doesn't seem much longer before they will be demanding it of everyone, even if you're in a group like myself who should not be taking it, not because it's good for the individual but because they decide it's good for society to inoculate everyone, damn the meek casualties. 

 

To see so many people applauding the idea that the unvaccinated should be under basically forced house arrest when if you trust the data we'd pose next to no threat to the vaccinated is extremely disheartening. 

[hamrag]

3 hours ago, Wedgie23 said:

To see so many people applauding the idea that the unvaccinated should be under basically forced house arrest.....

👏 👏

[ziggyuk]

2 hours ago, Wedgie23 said:

I couldn't have been more respectful when posing my question, stated zero opinions in what you quoted only facts as far as I know them. Considering there are people on this board who stated they were in the trials then they are a source of direct information I as I'm sure many others personally haven't had access to ask questions of until now. If that is considered 'flaming' in your opinion then in my opinion you are part of the problem when people who have legitimate concerns aren't allowed to even ask questions otherwise they hint they haven't fully drunk the kool aid yet and are ripe for the picking of the flaming torch carrying mobs who have. 

 

When the first hand experience of trial candidates is dismissed, it doesn't feel respectful. It did feel like you were doubting and indeed flaming our experience in favour of what you describe as a "basic understanding and some light googling".

 

It's taken a page of posts from three people involved in the trials to hopefully convince you the placebo groups will be offered the vaccine.

 

Both myself and @zdcatc12 have offered to share our experiences and answer any questions about our respective trials as neither of us are subject to non-disclosure contracts.

I'm sorry but I'm "part of the problem" and you aren't allowed to ask legitimate questions? I don't believe you were asking questions, It felt like you were giving an opinion and casting doubt on our experience.

 

[nomad098]

The problem with posting on a forum like this is that it's difficult to express meaning and inflection into a black and white post. What one sees as a genuine inquiry another can see as a personal attack, none of us seem to be great novelists who can who can impart empathy and meaning substantially from the written word. You see this a lot on forums and text messages, the kids seem to manage this better with their use of emojis to convey context and meaning.

 

22 minutes ago, hamrag said:

👏 👏

 

This however is easy to understand. This shows a person who lacks empathy, lacks basic understanding of humanity, who's selfish, emotionally stunted and regardless of age is juvenile if not infentle in their dealings with others online.

Regardless of who they are in the real world online they are nothing but a spoiled child online.

 

 

Back to the point of this thread I don't know if cruise lines will require a vaccine, I suspect it will come down to if they can get enough people to cruise if it's a requirement, or get enough people if it is not.

 

Generally what I do know is the Governments and businesses want to get the economies moving again, we saw this after the initial outbreak, if vaccines reduces mortality by 99% as some public health officials believe by Easter, I think there will be a big push to get things moving with the least amount of impediments as possible.

[hallux]

11 hours ago, zdcatc12 said:

Also, that when a vaccine was available that Pfizer would not have to tell the placebos that they were on a placebo, that it would be unethical for them not you.

Could you please try restating this?  I'm trying to read this but I'm not sure what exactly you're getting at here.

 

Are you saying Pfizer does NOT have to tell people in the placebo group that they were in that group while also saying it would be unethical to do just that?  Or were you saying that they DO have to tell them as it would be unethical not to?

[ziggyuk]

13 hours ago, nomad098 said:

 

Just watched it extremely interesting documentary, it put to bed the rumors about the 1/2 dose full dose questions the, MRHA were aware of why and how as soon as possible after the incident before any results were in and gave the OK to proceed. The hard work and dedication was awe inspiring, the step by step explanation certainly eased any concerns I have and the hope they have that the vaccine will help right the world and hopefully break transmission was plainly obvious. All for a £2 vaccine 

 

If anyone outside the UK is interested in watching, it has been posted on YouTube now:

 

[GA Dave]

9 hours ago, Wedgie23 said:

I couldn't have been more respectful when posing my question, stated zero opinions in what you quoted only facts as far as I know them. Considering there are people on this board who stated they were in the trials then they are a source of direct information I as I'm sure many others personally haven't had access to ask questions of until now. If that is considered 'flaming' in your opinion then in my opinion you are part of the problem when people who have legitimate concerns aren't allowed to even ask questions otherwise they hint they haven't fully drunk the kool aid yet and are ripe for the picking of the flaming torch carrying mobs who have. 

 

Personally I have an autoimmune condition which causes my immune system to be overactive and attack my body even when 'healthy'. There is very little public information about what rna technology has done to people and their conditions long term in the same boat as me as it has never been approved before. What little I can find tells me autoimmune people should be steering clear of this. I had an anaphylaxis response to a vaccine once before, but I am far less concerned with needing a steroid injection to reverse that than I am with how this technology is going to interact with the condition I already have, considering there were already concerns about using mrna on autoimmune people before covid existed. That is a conversation that's going to be between me and my doctor, not me and the manager of a Chipolte whose demanding access to my private medical information in order to deny me service due to a condition I was born with which poses no danger to anyone but myself. 

 

Perhaps I have a unique perspective but I can certainly understand how everyday heathy people have their own concerns. There is not, nor will there be for years, sufficient data on what this could do to a pregnant woman for instance yet we see here they are already talking about clearing it for them when any logical person knows there simply hasn't been enough time to see that it's safe yet or even safer than contractive covid would have been. It doesn't seem much longer before they will be demanding it of everyone, even if you're in a group like myself who should not be taking it, not because it's good for the individual but because they decide it's good for society to inoculate everyone, damn the meek casualties. 

 

To see so many people applauding the idea that the unvaccinated should be under basically forced house arrest when if you trust the data we'd pose next to no threat to the vaccinated is extremely disheartening. 

To put your mind at ease, I have seen it stated in multiple news stories that requirements for people to have the vaccine to do anything (i.e., travel, enter a movie theater, get a job) will have to contain exceptions for medical and religious reasons.  I am sure, given your condition, that you will be able to get one of these exceptions. 

I think the main concern of most people (like me) that are willing to get the vaccine is that not enough people will do it and we will be stuck living in this lock-down hell for several more years.  Personally, once I am sure everyone has been offered the vaccine and had the opportunity to get it, I do not intend to continue to wear a mask everywhere I go.

[zdcatc12]

12 hours ago, hallux said:

Could you please try restating this?  I'm trying to read this but I'm not sure what exactly you're getting at here.

 

Are you saying Pfizer does NOT have to tell people in the placebo group that they were in that group while also saying it would be unethical to do just that?  Or were you saying that they DO have to tell them as it would be unethical not to?

Sorry if it was confusing, your last sentence is more correct, though they are not required to tell us. We were told that Pfizer does not have to tell us if we received the placebo or the vaccine. However, they probably will because it would be unethical for them to not let you know which you have when a vaccine becomes available. Because we can withdraw from the trial at any time, if I am not told which injections I received, when my time comes up to be able to get a vaccine, I will leave the trial and get it. Also, I am pretty sure that I had the placebo.

[kristi195]

On 12/12/2020 at 2:22 AM, bigrednole said:

I am 100% for this requirement. IF, and that is a big IF, this virus is as bad as the government and media have portrayed it to be, mandatory vaccination is required. I am not talking just for cruising. I am talking about everything. Medical insurance, driver's license, voting, going to school, mortgage, loans, credit cards, everything. Remember, this virus is so devastating that it has shutdown the United States for 9 months now and looking to go even further. It is so bad that 40%+ of small businesses will be gone forever. Because this is the worst thing the world has seen, sarcasm for those Sheldon Coopers, eradicating it through vaccine is a requirement. It is as simple as that. Either we have been lied to and we can just reopen everything or this is as bad as they say and everyone must be vaccinated. There is no middle ground. 

 

I am all for this and booked a NCLH cruise already because of the news. At least I am certain cruises will be going in November.

A very well thought out argument.. I totally agree. 

 

[cjetson1997]

I think NCL should require all passengers to have the vaccine or get it prior to boarding. No other way to safely cruise!!! This will be a huge blow to their business, but peace of mind is priceless. 

[njkate]

I would think people who have cruises booked far out, like 2022 & 2023 would be totally refunded no BS if they require a vaccine after the date one booked if one was not getting vaccine, I guess those sitting on thousands in FCC will have to vaccinate if they want to use them. There is more to the equation in NCL making a vaccine decision.

[graphicguy]

On 12/14/2020 at 5:53 PM, nomad098 said:

 

I signed my contract with no covid-19 vaccine mandate does that mean I can enforce my right to not cruise with a vaccine if the cruise line introduces one, of course not.  

 

What it does mean is that the contract is unenforceable and I am entitled to a full cash refund or a FCC if I so wish or I can agree to the change in terms at which point the contract once again becomes enforceable again.

 

There are many reasons why a contract can not be enforced by either party

 

This is under UK & EU law I posted earlier other countries may vary.

 

 

 

 

You also signed a contract with NCL stating they could change requirements based solely on their discretion as part of the terms of the contract.  If you don’t want to abide by that contract, you’re going to be hard pressed to get them to refund your money.

 

Personally, it makes no difference to me if you will/won’t cruise, if you will/won’t demand your money back, if you will/won’t agree to the vaccine. 

 

Having dealt with NCL (as well as many other cruise lines) sailing out of many different international ports, their terms are pretty crystal clear to me, regardless of the geographic region you live in.

Edited December 16, 2020 by graphicguy

[graphicguy]

1 hour ago, njkate said:

I would think people who have cruises booked far out, like 2022 & 2023 would be totally refunded no BS if they require a vaccine after the date one booked if one was not getting vaccine, I guess those sitting on thousands in FCC will have to vaccinate if they want to use them. There is more to the equation in NCL making a vaccine decision.

If you book far enough out, your cruise is refundable.....2022 and 2023  would qualify.

[hamrag]

15 minutes ago, graphicguy said:

If you book far enough out, your cruise is refundable.....2022 and 2023  would qualify.

 

Nope, not here in the UK!

[graphicguy]

22 minutes ago, hamrag said:

 

Nope, not here in the UK!

WOW....how does your cancellation policy differ from booking in North America?

 

https://www.ncl.com/about/cancellation-fee-schedule

[hamrag]

12 minutes ago, graphicguy said:

WOW....how does your cancellation policy differ from booking in North America?

 

https://www.ncl.com/about/cancellation-fee-schedule

Deposits are non-refundable.

[littlelulu01]

On 12/14/2020 at 9:34 PM, Wedgie23 said:

I couldn't have been more respectful when posing my question, stated zero opinions in what you quoted only facts as far as I know them. Considering there are people on this board who stated they were in the trials then they are a source of direct information I as I'm sure many others personally haven't had access to ask questions of until now. If that is considered 'flaming' in your opinion then in my opinion you are part of the problem when people who have legitimate concerns aren't allowed to even ask questions otherwise they hint they haven't fully drunk the kool aid yet and are ripe for the picking of the flaming torch carrying mobs who have. 

 

Personally I have an autoimmune condition which causes my immune system to be overactive and attack my body even when 'healthy'. There is very little public information about what rna technology has done to people and their conditions long term in the same boat as me as it has never been approved before. What little I can find tells me autoimmune people should be steering clear of this. I had an anaphylaxis response to a vaccine once before, but I am far less concerned with needing a steroid injection to reverse that than I am with how this technology is going to interact with the condition I already have, considering there were already concerns about using mrna on autoimmune people before covid existed. That is a conversation that's going to be between me and my doctor, not me and the manager of a Chipolte whose demanding access to my private medical information in order to deny me service due to a condition I was born with which poses no danger to anyone but myself. 

 

Perhaps I have a unique perspective but I can certainly understand how everyday heathy people have their own concerns. There is not, nor will there be for years, sufficient data on what this could do to a pregnant woman for instance yet we see here they are already talking about clearing it for them when any logical person knows there simply hasn't been enough time to see that it's safe yet or even safer than contractive covid would have been. It doesn't seem much longer before they will be demanding it of everyone, even if you're in a group like myself who should not be taking it, not because it's good for the individual but because they decide it's good for society to inoculate everyone, damn the meek casualties. 

 

To see so many people applauding the idea that the unvaccinated should be under basically forced house arrest when if you trust the data we'd pose next to no threat to the vaccinated is extremely disheartening. 

I also have an autoimmune disorder and as such am at risk of serious complications from Covid-19.  Like most of us, I’ve seen firsthand what this virus has done to loved ones, our health care system and our livelihoods.   I can’t wait to get a vaccine!  I’ll be getting mine in the next few days. I know the vaccine might only protect myself so I’ll still need to mask up for a little longer. 
 

 The talks of short sailings with the unvaccinated sounds like an absolute disaster.  A ship full of the unvaccinated, many of which don’t even think COVID is a danger and refuse to social distance or wear a mask will quickly turn into super spreader ships. 
 

I’m hopeful that we’ll be able to return to fairly unrestricted sailings soon as long as all adults aboard are vaccinated. Children and those unable to receive a vaccine might have to wait just a little longer for return to activities such as cruises and most vacations outside their country. 

[njkate]

3 hours ago, graphicguy said:

If you book far enough out, your cruise is refundable.....2022 and 2023  would qualify.

What about those booked for later 2021? What about those sitting on thousands in FCC, will they offer refunds to those who don't vaccinate

[lanceholt]

On 12/9/2020 at 8:15 PM, YankeeFan4Ever said:

https://www.travelweekly.com/Cruise-Travel/Norwegian-is-looking-into-the-legality-of-vaccination-requirement?fbclid=IwAR1YaW3_zuKihZPpXp-7ma2MXTFhLoq2kDrAy0vcYp_i4hWecQWy51l-pUw

 

 

We're all for requiring proof of vaccination before boarding cruise ships....as long as the cruise lines ensures that  ALL crew are vaccinated as well.  

 

[nomad098]

3 hours ago, graphicguy said:

You also signed a contract with NCL stating they could change requirements based solely on their discretion as part of the terms of the contract.  If you don’t want to abide by that contract, you’re going to be hard pressed to get them to refund your money.

 

Personally, it makes no difference to me if you will/won’t cruise, if you will/won’t demand your money back, if you will/won’t agree to the vaccine. 

 

Having dealt with NCL (as well as many other cruise lines) sailing out of many different international ports, their terms are pretty crystal clear to me, regardless of the geographic region you live in.

 

You keep posting about how you think or you know the cruise contract applies to you this is fine but you need to understand the the cruise contract is different and different laws apply dependent on which market you book in not what port you sail from. UK and EU bookings are different to US bookings, different laws and legal framework which sets out what is and is not possible. There is even a difference between UK and EU bookings. An example is in the UK contract requires a set deposit followed by final payment 12 weeks before the cruise an EU contract says 10% of the cruise fare followed by final payment 28 days before the cruise. Different markets have different contracts dependent on the laws, jurisdiction of the market where someone books.

If I sign a contract with anyone in the UK it is not worth the paper it is written on unless it can stand up to UK law. An example of this was RCL stated that all legal matters were to be resolved in Broward County Florida US in it's contract in the UK the UK law states quite clearly that any disputes will be settled in the UK, matters are now settled in the UK and RCL had to alter it's contract accordingly.

On any given cruise there will be a number of differing contracts dependent on where someone booked.

 

 

 

[littlelulu01]

18 minutes ago, njkate said:

What about those booked for later 2021? What about those sitting on thousands in FCC, will they offer refunds to those who don't vaccinate

Have you checked your cruise insurance policy? I know back in March, people were claiming on their policies when governments, cruise lines and airlines were refusing service based on what country ones passport was from.  In March 2020 I was able to get the airlines, cruise lines... to give me credits and my cruise insurance company even gave me full refunds and credits towards rebooking so I didn’t bother messing with claims.  I figured I’ll definitely use the credits at some point so I’m glad I hung onto and rebooked at serious discounts.  
 

Re fcc’s I’m not sure if insurance will cover that just because you can always get a vaccine at a later date and travel or just wait it out till enough of population does that it’s no longer an issue. You’ll probably get to travel in a couple years and I imagine ncl would be happy to extend fcc expiration to accommodate your wait. 

 

 Cruise lines will sail as soon as possible.  If a government mandated all foreigners receive a vaccine to enter their country-  well the ship will mandate all passengers have a vaccine if they want to sail. 

[nomad098]

3 minutes ago, littlelulu01 said:

 Cruise lines will sail as soon as possible.  If a government mandated all foreigners receive a vaccine to enter their country-  well the ship will mandate all passengers have a vaccine if they want to sail. 

 

A quick and easier way would be a world wide Governmental mandate that anyone entering a country needs to have proof of a vaccination, this would mean if anyone sailed round trip from say Miami US for example you would need to a vaccine certificate to re-enter the US at the end of the cruise, sailing or flying from one country to another you would need vaccination proof to enter. This would bypass employment laws, moral or ethical concerns and make the implementation of vaccinated travel universal outside your own country or back into it. The ICVP yellow card is internationally recognised and set up for the job, would be quick to implement and a digital version could be adopted later.

[littlelulu01]

19 minutes ago, nomad098 said:

 

A quick and easier way would be a world wide Governmental mandate that anyone entering a country needs to have proof of a vaccination, this would mean if anyone sailed round trip from say Miami US for example you would need to a vaccine certificate to re-enter the US at the end of the cruise, sailing or flying from one country to another you would need vaccination proof to enter. This would bypass employment laws, moral or ethical concerns and make the implementation of vaccinated travel universal outside your own country or back into it. The ICVP yellow card is internationally recognised and set up for the job, would be quick to implement and a digital version could be adopted later.

Some countries might not want to mandate. Some diseases are not an issue for one country but quite a problem in another country.  I’m a USA citizen. When our daughter did study abroad year in college she had to get a couple vaccines that we didn’t have routine here but the eu did. She was over 18 and so I had to pay full price - insurance only covered till age 18. I don’t even know now what vaccines they were but I do remember it was hundreds of $ and a scramble to find a pharmacy that even carried them. It was an 11th hour situation where she wasn’t going to get her visa without the vaccines. The vaccine card you speak of sounds kind of like the chips in our passports? I guess if a system is already in place that is great.  I think the Italian embassy in San Francisco just required the vaccine record from our doctor?  Idk if our passports have ability to store that information but passports seem ideal. The ship, airlines... already has to scan to board so it would sure be quick and easy. 

[littlelulu01]

1 hour ago, lanceholt said:

We're all for requiring proof of vaccination before boarding cruise ships....as long as the cruise lines ensures that  ALL crew are vaccinated as well.  

 

Idk how that will work. Did the cruise lines put in orders with the various makers?   The crew are not first responders, health care or essential employees and are as a whole young and healthy so in theory might be last in line for vaccination?  I’m hopeful the cruise lines do have a way to provide vaccines to crew so they can start up as soon as enough paying passengers get vaccinated. 

[ziggyuk]

34 minutes ago, littlelulu01 said:

Idk how that will work. Did the cruise lines put in orders with the various makers?   The crew are not first responders, health care or essential employees and are as a whole young and healthy so in theory might be last in line for vaccination?  I’m hopeful the cruise lines do have a way to provide vaccines to crew so they can start up as soon as enough paying passengers get vaccinated. 

 

Del Rio said “It will certainly be a requirement for the crew”
I agree that it's hard to think how he will achieve that with the current rules but he stated they are looking at the idea of for customers but stated the crew were a certainty.