First North American Cruise Line Vaccine Mandate

[ZoeyVictoria]

19 minutes ago, DCGuy64 said:

Good thing! The moderators of this site take a very dim view toward personal attacks. I made the mistake of getting into it with some people a few years ago and got a couple of warning points from the mods. Enough points and you'll be permanently banned from the site. Take it from me, being civil is the way to go.

I know, I see some CC friends disappear for a few days (or weeks) occasionally 😄.  I have very rarely been angered in my ten years on CC, but.....   I can’t even come up with a way to express politely why this situation is so irritating to me.  I’m done - again.  Thank you!

[molly361]

10 minutes ago, ZoeyVictoria said:

I know, I see some CC friends disappear for a few days (or weeks) occasionally 😄.  I have very rarely been angered in my ten years on CC, but.....   I can’t even come up with a way to express politely why this situation is so irritating to me.  I’m done - again.  Thank you!

Possibly because there are a few on these threads that don't seem to think that it is necessary for all passengers, especially their children under 16 should have to get vaccinated in order to cruise.

[ZoeyVictoria]

3 minutes ago, molly361 said:

Possibly because there are a few on these threads that don't seem to think that it is necessary for all passengers, especially their children under 16 should have to get vaccinated in order to cruise.

Don’t get me started again 😂. 

[DCGuy64]

Just in case anyone thinks I was making it up earlier when I talked about unrealistic expectations, I give you the following. This poster seems to believe that even a single case onboard will spell disaster. SMH.... 😕

 

 

 

[lizzius]

Yikes... 

 

I think Canada's precautions are actually a good talking point for people who think you can use a vaccine mandate as your ticket on to a cruise ship. Our neighbors and friends to the north are facing a supply hurdle and are likely to be several months behind us. Not to mention, they are generally taking more precautions than us and requiring travel quarantines across provinces. I wonder what the average Canadian would think about the idea of allowing a literal boat load of vaccinated tourists (largely from a country that has been very cavalier about precautions, and who could still carry the virus, though likely to a lesser degree) on shore when they are being asked to take such precautions and don't yet have expanded access to vaccines.

 

I'm sure someone will reply "some incomes depend on tourists" or something to that effect, which might be enough to influence the thinking (right or wrong) in countries that depend on it more, but quite obviously isn't universally supreme. The best choice for getting back to normal globally is getting vaccines into the arms of the people that need it most no matter what country they live in, rather than every arm in a country with the most squeaky tourists.

Edited February 5, 2021 by lizzius

[Mapleleafforever]

1 hour ago, molly361 said:

Possibly because there are a few on these threads that don't seem to think that it is necessary for all passengers, especially their children under 16 should have to get vaccinated in order to cruise.

Where does it say that vaccines will be mandatory at all in order to cruise?? It doesn't yet. It may one day but it does not yet and that is a fact. 

 

One thing that is still on Royal's website though is this.....people over 70 (like my Dad) may not be able to cruise for awhile or may need proof of health. And people with chronic conditions may be out as well. Here, you can read it yourself from Royal's website. 

 

So imagine that, there may be no cruising for awhile for the youngest and oldest demographic. 

 

"Coronavirus (COVID-19) Health Protocols

We are currently laser-focused on additional safety enhancements for our return to service. To develop our future boarding screening process and updated health protocols, we are collaborating with government health authorities, the Cruise Lines International Association, and our own team of medical experts. These are not yet finalized, but when they are, we will publish them online and notify all guests and travel advisors proactively.

We know that our 70+ guests and those with chronic conditions are especially eager to understand what cruising will look like in the future. While subject to change, via the Cruise Lines International Association, we have confirmed that the previous restrictions were lifted in early April after cruise lines suspended service. Please know that every decision we make, and all of the fine-tuning we do, has your well-being in mind. We miss you – and can’t wait to welcome you back onboard."

[Mapleleafforever]

1 hour ago, ZoeyVictoria said:

Don’t get me started again 😂. 

Breath, it's just an anonymous message board during a pandemic. 

[molly361]

4 minutes ago, Mapleleafforever said:

Where does it say that vaccines will be mandatory at all in order to cruise?? It doesn't yet. It may one day but it does not yet and that is a fact. 

 

One thing that is still on Royal's website though is this.....people over 70 (like my Dad) may not be able to cruise for awhile or may need proof of health. And people with chronic conditions may be out as well. Here, you can read it yourself from Royal's website. 

 

So imagine that, there may be no cruising for awhile for the youngest and oldest demographic. 

 

"Coronavirus (COVID-19) Health Protocols

We are currently laser-focused on additional safety enhancements for our return to service. To develop our future boarding screening process and updated health protocols, we are collaborating with government health authorities, the Cruise Lines International Association, and our own team of medical experts. These are not yet finalized, but when they are, we will publish them online and notify all guests and travel advisors proactively.

We know that our 70+ guests and those with chronic conditions are especially eager to understand what cruising will look like in the future. While subject to change, via the Cruise Lines International Association, we have confirmed that the previous restrictions were lifted in early April after cruise lines suspended service. Please know that every decision we make, and all of the fine-tuning we do, has your well-being in mind. We miss you – and can’t wait to welcome you back onboard."

If it weren't for speculation CC could just about shut the boards down

[Ocean Boy]

15 minutes ago, Mapleleafforever said:

Breath, it's just an anonymous message board during a pandemic. 

You could give that same advice to one or two others on this thread, also.

[lizzius]

1 minute ago, Ocean Boy said:

You could give that same advice to one or two others on this thread, also.

*Gasp!* Thanks for the reminder. I was going for the gold.

[Mapleleafforever]

4 minutes ago, Ocean Boy said:

You could give that same advice to one or two others on this thread, also.

I remind myself daily as well.....or try to. 

[ace2542]

On 2/3/2021 at 4:56 AM, BirdTravels said:

And if there is a asymptomatic or lesser illness detected on a cruise, it ends it for all

That could change though? A single case or noro or flu has never shut down a cruise completely to my knowledge but I could be wrong. If it going to be like that that a single case ends things then there is no point to cruising continuing. They may as well just sell as many ships as they can for hotels and go home.

[ace2542]

So if a full vaccine program is mandated and they likely will do that. Does that mean that there will be a period of time when people cannot cruise? For example the 6 or 7 week period when the vaccines are being administered till full protection? So I guess that means Super Mario will no longer be able to live onboard full time anymore as there will be 6 or 7 weeks that he is not covered. And in terms european cruising and other parts of the world like UK where Astra Zeneca rules the roost with it's 12 week cycle. Such a ruling could have a very significant impact.

[Ocean Boy]

15 minutes ago, ace2542 said:

So if a full vaccine program is mandated and they likely will do that. Does that mean that there will be a period of time when people cannot cruise? For example the 6 or 7 week period when the vaccines are being administered till full protection? So I guess that means Super Mario will no longer be able to live onboard full time anymore as there will be 6 or 7 weeks that he is not covered. And in terms european cruising and other parts of the world like UK where Astra Zeneca rules the roost with it's 12 week cycle. Such a ruling could have a very significant impact.

Cruising isn't starting up for awhile and there are already people who are fully vaccinated. There will be plenty more people who are by time the first ship sails out of Florida.

 

To remind you, we are presently in a period where people cannot cruise. 

[ace2542]

24 minutes ago, Ocean Boy said:

Cruising isn't starting up for awhile and there are already people who are fully vaccinated. There will be plenty more people who are by time the first ship sails out of Florida.

 

To remind you, we are presently in a period where people cannot cruise. 

Do you think it will get to the stage of the cruise lines tracking the vaccination cycles of each passenger and perhaps only allowing them to cruise at certain times but not during their vaccination cycles?  I will likely end up with the Astra on a 12 week cycle. In the very last grouping I suspect i will not be fully covered in time for late november cruise unless  I get that first jab by end of June the latest.

[Mapleleafforever]

On 2/4/2021 at 10:52 AM, cured said:

What sacrifice? 

 

We now have 4 identified variants, each becoming more and more contagious and possibly more deadly. When you allow yourself to catch the virus, even if you do not become ill, you give the virus the opportunity to spread and mutate.  This has been pushed by scientists from the very beginning and I have read it here/posted about it since the beginning, on a major reason why health measures need to be taken. While the majority of the mutations are normal and no different, occasionally the virus is successful in mutating to a more virulent strain.

 

If businesses choose to mandate vaccines, their choice just like it is the individual's choice whether to vaccinate or not, then that is their right. And I celebrate it. If a significant number of "young people" refuse to follow health protocols, allowing the virus to do what viruses do, then businesses have to do what they have to do to make their customers feel more comfortable.

 

I am immunocompromised and have taken extreme measures, per my doc's orders, to isolate. I have only left our house a few times for doc appts the past year.  I am not seeing how "Young People" are sacrificing so much. They are out and about, even if they have to wear masks. It is the older and more vulnerable population that is sacrificing right now.

 

I am looking forward to being able to do the things the "Young People" are doing masked like vacations, football games in stadiums, movie theaters, and even grocery shopping, confident that all the fellow customers are also vaccinated. Despite being labeled as a group that would be willing to sacrifice their lives for the 'Young People."

 

Children are resilient. They can withstand another 6 months without going on an expensive cruise. I look at children in the recent past and the difficulties they have suffered. Sports and cruises were the last things on their minds. Yet they came out the other side stronger due to their struggles.  Many children today are more worried about being able to eat breakfast. Businesses that mandate vaccines will allow them to fully open more quickly, allowing parents to go back to work and put food on the table.

 

 

I'm sorry but there is a chance that you may not be able to cruise once it resumes as well. 

 

 

"Coronavirus (COVID-19) Health Protocols

We are currently laser-focused on additional safety enhancements for our return to service. To develop our future boarding screening process and updated health protocols, we are collaborating with government health authorities, the Cruise Lines International Association, and our own team of medical experts. These are not yet finalized, but when they are, we will publish them online and notify all guests and travel advisors proactively.

We know that our 70+ guests and those with chronic conditions are especially eager to understand what cruising will look like in the future. While subject to change, via the Cruise Lines International Association, we have confirmed that the previous restrictions were lifted in early April after cruise lines suspended service. Please know that every decision we make, and all of the fine-tuning we do, has your well-being in mind. We miss you – and can’t wait to welcome you back onboard."

[MommaBear55]

5 hours ago, ZoeyVictoria said:

I know, I see some CC friends disappear for a few days (or weeks) occasionally 😄.  I have very rarely been angered in my ten years on CC, but.....   I can’t even come up with a way to express politely why this situation is so irritating to me.  I’m done - again.  Thank you!

I have several people on my "blocked" list. It helps my blood pressure stay low. 

[Seville2Cabo]

8 hours ago, DCGuy64 said:

^^^ x 1,000 times.

It boggles my mind that there are still people out there believing that children are dangerous virus vectors and that schools MUST be closed down indefinitely. Absolutely ludicrous and not supported by science. In fact, just the opposite is true: not only are children statistically less likely to be infected and die (not anywhere near 1% or anything like it-look at John Hopkins excellent website if you doubt me), but schools are some of the least likely places to get the virus in the first place. https://www.who.int/docs/default-source/coronaviruse/risk-comms-updates/update39-covid-and-schools.pdf?sfvrsn=320db233_2  More and more, mayors like Bill DeBlasio in NYC and Lori Lightfoot in Chicago and governors are saying "enough is enough" and demanding that schools reopen. Furthermore, look at a place like Las Vegas where SUICIDES have skyrocketed in school children. https://www.nytimes.com/2021/01/24/us/politics/student-suicides-nevada-coronavirus.html COVID-19 may not kill most 18-and unders, but suicide does 100% OF THE TIME.

Kids need to be in school, period. End of story.

And what about the teachers?  Many are either in the high risk category or live with people that are high risk.  Once teachers and at risk get the vaccine, I do agree, back to school.  

[coffeebean]

On 2/2/2021 at 2:32 PM, kwokpot said:

RCCL Richard Fain has already commented that Vaccines are the way forward to the restart of cruising and less about all the other mitigation strategies. If you read between the lines and see what has happened and more importantly what hasn't I think the cruise line's strategy will be to work with the CDC and see if requiring vaccines for all passengers will allow them to lessen the amount of other mitigation efforts that require alot of time, money, and coordination. 

All those mitigation efforts diminish the cruise experience. I do everything the CDC has asked of us to do to mitigate the spread of the virus. I am a huge proponent of mask wearing in all indoor spaces. I will not, however, take a cruise if I have to wear a mask anywhere on the ship. I'll wait until those mitigation efforts are not necessary on cruise ships. I will also only cruise if all crew and passengers have been vaccinated. It may be a long time before hubby and I set one foot on a cruise ship. We will wait.

[cured]

10 hours ago, DCGuy64 said:

Part of my obvious frustration is due to what I see from some people (not just in this thread, but in similar ones, as well as other forums like this one) that suggest the only way to return to cruising safely is by promising a 100% risk-free experience, and that NOT A SINGLE CASE of COVID can ever be allowed. That's not only unreasonable, it's unattainable. If that's your threshold, then it's wrong. More to the point, the CDC recognizes this and that's why it wants procedures and facilities in place to deal with the inevitable (yes, inevitable) circumstance of someone contracting the virus onboard. So when I read comments alluding to "the cruise lines can't afford an outbreak"  or similar statements, I wonder what fantasy world they're living in. I have no illusions that there won't be one, it's just a question of how well the cruise line responds. COVID-19 is something that we'll just have to live with, not hide from in a bunker forever and demand everyone else do likewise.

Supporting mandated vaccinations ≠ believing a cruise will be 100% risk free.

 

As one esteemed physician on this board has stated (does seem to have letters after his name lizzius; ref to a previous post) , with a vaccinated population, quarantining individual cases will be made much easier.

[lizzius]

6 minutes ago, cured said:

Supporting mandated vaccinations ≠ believing a cruise will be 100% risk free.

 

As one esteemed physician on this board has stated (does seem to have letters after his name lizzius; ref to a previous post) , with a vaccinated population, quarantining individual cases will be made much easier.

To what end? There will absolutely be positive cases on board, as soon as the first ship sails... even if they're never "detected". 

[cured]

Interesting article from the NYT reporting on the push towards digital Vaccine passports.  What is very interesting is how many requests the companies developing digital passports are getting from different areas such as major league sports, concert halls, businesses, and the travel industry.

 

The passports are being developed to show both vaccination status and while they include proof of negative testing reporting component, the article leans towards the passports being more for proof of vaccine.  They reiterate that this is not unprecedented and that proof of vaccine has actually been common during history.

 

If this is even 50% factual, businesses are indeed moving towards requiring proof of vaccine.  This coincides with other reporting that believes vaccines are going to be mandated to access many businesses, sports, and travel.  Since this thread started out commenting that the American Queen Steamboat Company, Victory Cruise Lines will be mandating vaccines. It looks like they are just one of the first and others will be following their example.

 

 

https://www.nytimes.com/2021/02/04/travel/coronavirus-vaccine-passports.html

Coming Soon: The ‘Vaccine Passport’

In the near future, travel may require digital documentation showing that passengers have been vaccinated or tested for the coronavirus. Answers to your questions.

• By Tariro Mzezewa

• Published Feb. 4, 2021Updated Feb. 5, 2021, 3:15 p.m. ET

 

Among governments and those in the travel industry, a new term has entered the vocabulary: vaccine passport.

 

One of President Biden’s executive orders aimed at curbing the pandemic asks government agencies to “assess the feasibility” of linking coronavirus vaccine certificates with other vaccination documents, and producing digital versions of them.

 

Denmark’s government said on Wednesday that in the next three to four months, it will roll out a digital passport that will allow citizens to show they have been vaccinated.

 

It isn’t just governments that are suggesting vaccine passports. In a few weeks, Etihad Airways and Emirates will start using a digital travel pass, developed by the International Air Transport Association, to help passengers manage their travel plans and provide airlines and governments documentation that they have been vaccinated or tested for Covid-19.

 

The challenge right now is creating a document or app that is accepted around the world, that protects privacy and is accessible to people regardless of their wealth or access to smartphones.

 

What is a vaccine pass or passport?

A vaccination pass or passport is documentation proving that you have been vaccinated against Covid-19. Some versions will also allow people to show that they have tested negative for the virus, and therefore can more easily travel. The versions being worked on now by airlines, industry groups, nonprofits and technology companies will be something you can pull up on your mobile phone as an app or part of your digital wallet.

 

“It’s about trying to digitize a process that happens now and make it into something that allows for more harmony and ease, making it easier for people to travel between countries without having to pull out different papers for different countries and different documents at different checkpoints,” said Nick Careen, senior vice president for airport, passenger, cargo and security at I.A.T.A. Mr. Careen has been leading I.A.T.A.’s travel pass initiative.

 

I.A.T.A. is one of several organizations that have been working on digital solutions to streamline the travel credentialing process for years; during the pandemic, these groups have focused on including vaccination status. The idea is that if you have all the pertinent information on your phone, a significant amount of time will be saved.

 

In addition to I.A.T.A., IBM has been developing its own Digital Health Pass that would enable individuals to present proof of vaccination or a negative test to gain access to a public location, such as a sports stadium, airplane, university or workplace. The pass, built on IBM’s blockchain technology, can utilize multiple data types, including temperature checks, virus exposure notifications, test results and vaccine status. The World Economic Forum and the Commons Project Foundation, a Swiss nonprofit group, have been testing a digital health passport called CommonPass, which would allow travelers to access testing or vaccination information. The pass would generate a QR code that could be shown to authorities.

 

 

Why would I need a vaccine pass or passport?

As more people are inoculated, there will likely be aspects of public life in which only people who have been vaccinated are allowed to participate. Take the upcoming Super Bowl LV in Tampa, Fla., where a significant portion of attendees will be vaccinated health care workers. (Mr. Careen of I.A.T.A. said that sporting organizations, concert venues and tourism agencies have all reached out for identification tech support.)

 

In order to travel internationally, government and health authorities will need to know if you have been vaccinated or have tested negative for the virus. Many countries are already requiring proof of a negative test for entry. Such passes could be essential to restarting the tourism industry, said Zurab Pololikashvili, secretary general of the United Nations World Tourism Organization.

 

“One key element vital for the restart of tourism is consistency and harmonization of rules and protocols regarding international travel,” he said in an email. “Evidence of vaccination, for example, through the coordinated introduction of what may be called ‘health passports’ can offer this. They can also eliminate the need for quarantine on arrival, a policy which is also standing in the way of the return of international tourism.”

 

Dakota Gruener, executive director of ID2020, a global public-private partnership, said that there are three scenarios regarding digital credentialing for the coronavirus response. The first, which is largely off the table, is the creation of immunity certificates. These are documents that would show that people have developed some kind of immunity to the virus. The second scenario is being able to prove you’ve tested negative for the virus; the third is being able to show that you have been vaccinated. The last two scenarios, experts agree, are the most important for getting the travel industry going again.

 

“We’re seeing a lot of interest from airlines, airline industry groups, customs and border control agencies and travelers, all saying, ‘how do I safely get on a plane or as a condition of entry into a country, get on a train, whatever the case may be, and prove that I have been tested or vaccinated?’” Ms. Gruener said.

Ms. Gruener is one expert in a World Health Organization-sponsored group tasked with establishing global standards for digital vaccination certificates.

 

 

For decades, people traveling to certain countries have had to prove that they have been vaccinated against yellow fever, rubella and other diseases. Often, those vaccinated received a signed and stamped “yellow card.”Credit...Juan Mabromata/AFP via Getty Images

Has this been done before?

Having to prove you’ve been vaccinated in order to participate in activities or enter certain countries is not a new concept. For decades, people traveling to some countries have had to prove that they have been vaccinated against diseases such as yellow fever, rubella and cholera. Often, after being vaccinated, travelers received a signed and stamped “yellow card,” known as an International Certificate of Vaccination or Prophylaxis, which the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention still urge people to take on relevant trips.

 

“Everybody who has traveled internationally to countries that require vaccination against malaria, diphtheria and other things has had yellow cards,” said Brian Behlendorf, executive director of Linux Foundation Public Health, a technology-focused organization helping public health authorities combat Covid-19 around the world. Its focus is helping projects, communities and companies build open-source technology. “Parents with kids in public school have had to prove their kids have been vaccinated. This is not something new.”

 

But a major difference between the yellow card of years past and what is being worked on now is the digital component, which comes with new concerns around privacy and accessibility. The Linux Foundation is working in partnership with the Covid-19 Credentials Initiative, a collective of more than 300 people from five continents to help develop universal standards for vaccine credential apps that make them accessible and equitable. The foundation is also working with IBM and CommonPass.

 

“As these things get rolled out, it’s important for citizens to ask governments and airlines: How do we make this easy so I have one vaccination record to book a flight, hotel and so I can use that to do some other things,” Mr. Behlendorf said. “It should work like email. If it doesn’t, agitate for it.”

 

Do vaccine passports have to be digital?

Vaccine passports don’t have to be digital, but they would make the travel process smoother.

 

“Imagine a future where a plane lands in an airport and a hundred people have a travel pass, 100 have another health wallet, 50 have bits of paper and another 25 have some kind of government document,” said Jamie Smith, senior director of business development at Evernym, a developer that has been working with I.A.T.A. and others on developing a vaccine pass. “What does the airport do? How do they process all those people in a standard, simple way?”

 

The European Union’s law enforcement agency said this week that sales of fake negative test results are becoming more widespread, another reason the industry is trying to develop digital passes that are secure.

 

 

What are the objections to vaccine passports?

In a world where more than a billion people aren’t able to prove their identity because they lack passports, birth certificates, driver’s licenses or national identification cards, digital documents that show vaccine status may heighten inequality and risk, leaving many people behind. That concern has been at the heart of Ms. Gruener’s work.

 

“Long predating Covid, we were working on the intersection of digital credentials and immunization,” she said. “It’ll be years before vaccines are universally available on a global level and thus widespread testing is going to continue and must continue alongside vaccination to enable a safe and equitable return to travel and other public activities.”

 

For those without smartphones, the industry says it will accept paper proof, but even that needs to be standardized.

 

In addition, there are concerns about privacy and data sharing.

 

“There are ways this could be done right or done terribly wrong and the wrong ways could lead us to a techno dystopia,” said Jenny Wanger, director of programs at the Linux Foundation, adding that it’s important that the tech-building aspect of these apps be done in the open and doesn’t end up in the control of any one government or company. The technology should be open source and accessible to technologists, no matter who they are or where they are, she and others said.

What are the challenges to creating these digital passes?

Technologists and travel industry experts said that although it is possible to rush tech solutions that allow people to have one-use apps, creating long-lasting ethical technology or systems that will not store people’s data, or make it possible to track where they are, takes time.

 

“The global passport system took 50 years to develop,” said Drummond Reed, chief trust officer for Evernym. “Even when they wanted to add biometrics to that to make it stronger, that took over a decade to agree on just how you’re going to add a fingerprint or a facial biometric to be verified on a passport. Now, in a very short period of time, we need to produce a digital credential that can be as universally recognized as a passport and it needs an even greater level of privacy because it’s going to be digital.”

 

Edited February 6, 2021 by cured

[cured]

7 hours ago, Mapleleafforever said:

I'm sorry but there is a chance that you may not be able to cruise once it resumes as well. 

 

 

"Coronavirus (COVID-19) Health Protocols

We are currently laser-focused on additional safety enhancements for our return to service. To develop our future boarding screening process and updated health protocols, we are collaborating with government health authorities, the Cruise Lines International Association, and our own team of medical experts. These are not yet finalized, but when they are, we will publish them online and notify all guests and travel advisors proactively.

We know that our 70+ guests and those with chronic conditions are especially eager to understand what cruising will look like in the future. While subject to change, via the Cruise Lines International Association, we have confirmed that the previous restrictions were lifted in early April after cruise lines suspended service. Please know that every decision we make, and all of the fine-tuning we do, has your well-being in mind. We miss you – and can’t wait to welcome you back onboard."

Not sure what that has to do with me. I do not fall in the 70+ age category. So, I am still planning on cruising as soon as this GLOBAL pandemic is mitigated.

[cured]

29 minutes ago, lizzius said:

To what end? There will absolutely be positive cases on board, as soon as the first ship sails... even if they're never "detected". 

Many have tried to explain the science to you.  Not going to try yet again.

 

As I said before, we can debate this till we are blue in the face but nobody's opinion on here including yours and mine will influence the decision of businesses and their choice of whether they mandate vaccines or not. The science supports it. More and more news is trickling out that this may be the way of the future. But we will just have to wait and see.

[lizzius]

41 minutes ago, cured said:

Many have tried to explain the science to you.  Not going to try yet again.

 

As I said before, we can debate this till we are blue in the face but nobody's opinion on here including yours and mine will influence the decision of businesses and their choice of whether they mandate vaccines or not. The science supports it. More and more news is trickling out that this may be the way of the future. But we will just have to wait and see.

You'll have to introduce us to your friend "the science" some time... Somehow he's always saying what you think he should be saying with little consideration for reality, or what actual scientists share with us.

 

What you posted above with regard to a vaccine passport is not "news", it's speculation and will almost certainly not be used in the ways you're imagining. Additionally, it betrays shallow thinking centered around some version of "I've got mine" that simply cannot be extended to international travel. Simply put, it doesn't matter if you're vaccinated or have immunity to a disease that you can still transmit (arguably to a lesser degree) if the people in the place you're traveling to don't have the same immunity... You most likely won't be welcome. See the recent decision Canada made regarding travel, and the lack of a carve-out for vaccine recipients, for evidence. 

 

As a final note, most of the passport talk centers around some future where vaccines are both available and widespread. Medical experts and public health experts ranging from the WHO on down have outlined the ethical concerns with vaccine passports in a time of scarcity (and much to your chagrin, most government entities and airlines have hinted there will be exceptions for children anyway), which begs the question: after vaccines are plentiful and population metrics bear out the success of the program (ie hospitalizations and deaths are substantially lower), does a vaccine passport really serve a purpose anymore? 

Edited February 6, 2021 by lizzius