Cruising Without Masks?

[Mikew0805]

15 hours ago, Ocean Boy said:

This is a typical political move. If any subject might spark controversy find a way to make it about children. That will silence any opposition because no one wants to be branded a child hater.

Raising hand!!! Can't stand them... very allergic!

 

Thanks,

[broberts]

9 hours ago, LeeRB said:

 

 

I am not anti-CDC and I usually follow all of my doctor’s advice; however I do reserve the right to question their advice on occasion, especially if they contradict each other or themselves.

 

Was it the CDC or DR. Fauci or both or one of the other multitude of ‘experts’ the media keeps parroting that said way back last year that face masks were of no value in protecting the average person and they should be left for the medical personel? Now they want everyone to wear a mask and some seem to want us to double up and wear two masks. I can see why some would be very skeptical of the ‘experts’ when they have been known to change horses in midstream.  

 

 

The sad fact is we are a society that does not listen carefully and mostly hears what we want to hear.

 

Masks do not provide much protection to the wearer. They do provide protection to those that interact with the wearer. 

 

[Mikew0805]

11 hours ago, Tippyton said:

CDC has been all over the map and has lost credibility.

Yes, because as information and understanding evolves, they should just stick with what they originally said?

 

Fantastic critical thinking!

[Ocean Boy]

50 minutes ago, Mikew0805 said:

Yes, because as information and understanding evolves, they should just stick with what they originally said?

 

Fantastic critical thinking!

Masks are not really a new invention. Did they have to do some major clinical experiment to come to the conclusion that some barrier might be better than no barrier or, for than matter, that 10 layers might be even more helpful? Sometimes a little common sense goes a long way.

 

For years now, when the flu is endemic in the area, my hospital has required non vaccinated staff to mask when performing patient care. Apparently, someone knew something about masks prior to 2020.

[florida eagle]

Part of everything is hygiene. Because of Covid, more people are practicing cleaner ways. That in itself would be a benefit on ships.

[Mikew0805]

1 hour ago, Ocean Boy said:

Masks are not really a new invention. Did they have to do some major clinical experiment to come to the conclusion that some barrier might be better than no barrier or, for than matter, that 10 layers might be even more helpful? Sometimes a little common sense goes a long way.

 

For years now, when the flu is endemic in the area, my hospital has required non vaccinated staff to mask when performing patient care. Apparently, someone knew something about masks prior to 2020.

Of course they are not new. Staff at my organization who do not vaccinate against the flu every year are required to wear a mask from Oct 1 - March 31.  The evolution of knowledge I was referring to was in regards to SARS-CoV-2.

[ace2542]

33 minutes ago, Mikew0805 said:

Of course they are not new. Staff at my organization who do not vaccinate against the flu every year are required to wear a mask from Oct 1 - March 31.  The evolution of knowledge I was referring to was in regards to SARS-CoV-2.

Does your organisation pay for the vaccination? And since it is not near 100% effective surely all staff should wear mask regardless if mask is company policy.

[Ocean Boy]

21 minutes ago, Mikew0805 said:

Of course they are not new. Staff at my organization who do not vaccinate against the flu every year are required to wear a mask from Oct 1 - March 31.  The evolution of knowledge I was referring to was in regards to SARS-CoV-2.

I understand your point. But don't you think that common sense things like the masking issue that, even without much effort, the average person can see through with the flip flopping contibutes to the skepticism that some have? If they can see the hypocrisy with the things they can understand it serves to make them more distrustful of what they are being told about things that may not really have a good understanding of and see the changing guidance as being equivelent to the "evolution" they see of the masking guidance.

 

I have discussions with patients all the time about how the advice I am giving you this year may be different from when we last talked and it may be different from what I tell you the next time we talk. That is the nature of medicine.

[Ocean Boy]

6 minutes ago, ace2542 said:

Does your organisation pay for the vaccination? And since it is not near 100% effective surely all staff should wear mask regardless if mask is company policy.

Never mind, deleted.

[baldilocks]

I'm old, but I remember the 'good ol' days'. We didn't know about peanut allergies, glucose intolerance, etc. We played outdoors and when somebody go hurt, we hauled him off to his house for his mother to take care of him. The doctor made house calls. Band aids were popular. We rode our bikes all over the place. We would be away from home hours at time. In my wife's school, students even brought rifles / shotguns to school so they could go hunting after classes. No one was going to shoot anyone but the poor bunny. 

 

Now we want all kids to be rolled up in bubble wrap and have a parent standing next to him with a shotgun to protect him, 'Don't go near my kid or I'll blast you'. 

 

Has society gotten so rotten that we cannot ride our bikes anymore?

[broberts]

1 minute ago, baldilocks said:

I'm old, but I remember the 'good ol' days'. We didn't know about peanut allergies, glucose intolerance, etc. We played outdoors and when somebody go hurt, we hauled him off to his house for his mother to take care of him. The doctor made house calls. Band aids were popular. We rode our bikes all over the place. We would be away from home hours at time. In my wife's school, students even brought rifles / shotguns to school so they could go hunting after classes. No one was going to shoot anyone but the poor bunny. 

 

Now we want all kids to be rolled up in bubble wrap and have a parent standing next to him with a shotgun to protect him, 'Don't go near my kid or I'll blast you'. 

 

Has society gotten so rotten that we cannot ride our bikes anymore?

 

We have a tendency to remember the good and forget the bad.

 

I don't think society is much more rotten than it was. However, unlike yesteryear we have instant reporting with visuals. 

[Mikew0805]

40 minutes ago, ace2542 said:

Does your organisation pay for the vaccination? And since it is not near 100% effective surely all staff should wear mask regardless if mask is company policy.

Yes, we do pay for it, and we administer it.

 

I will follow OB's lead. The rest is not even worth a response. 

[broberts]

43 minutes ago, Ocean Boy said:

I understand your point. But don't you think that common sense things like the masking issue that, even without much effort, the average person can see through with the flip flopping contibutes to the skepticism that some have? If they can see the hypocrisy with the things they can understand it serves to make them more distrustful of what they are being told about things that may not really have a good understanding of and see the changing guidance as being equivelent to the "evolution" they see of the masking guidance.

 

I have discussions with patients all the time about how the advice I am giving you this year may be different from when we last talked and it may be different from what I tell you the next time we talk. That is the nature of medicine.

 

The "flip-flop" and "hypocrisy" are mostly a result of sloppy media with the help of some pushing particular political agenda.

[Mikew0805]

40 minutes ago, Ocean Boy said:

I understand your point. But don't you think that common sense things like the masking issue that, even without much effort, the average person can see through with the flip flopping contibutes to the skepticism that some have? If they can see the hypocrisy with the things they can understand it serves to make them more distrustful of what they are being told about things that may not really have a good understanding of and see the changing guidance as being equivelent to the "evolution" they see of the masking guidance.

 

I have discussions with patients all the time about how the advice I am giving you this year may be different from when we last talked and it may be different from what I tell you the next time we talk. That is the nature of medicine.

I agree.

 

I would just like to believe that humans are capable of understanding the novel concept of this. Sometimes I wonder if the skepticism is really just willful ignorance.

[broberts]

1 minute ago, Mikew0805 said:

I agree.

 

I would just like to believe that humans are capable of understanding the novel concept of this. Sometimes I wonder if the skepticism is really just willful ignorance.

 

I've often thought that skepticism was simply intellectual lazyness.

[TheMastodon]

1 hour ago, baldilocks said:

I'm old, but I remember the 'good ol' days'. We didn't know about peanut allergies, glucose intolerance, etc. We played outdoors and when somebody go hurt, we hauled him off to his house for his mother to take care of him. The doctor made house calls. Band aids were popular. We rode our bikes all over the place. We would be away from home hours at time. In my wife's school, students even brought rifles / shotguns to school so they could go hunting after classes. No one was going to shoot anyone but the poor bunny. 

 

Now we want all kids to be rolled up in bubble wrap and have a parent standing next to him with a shotgun to protect him, 'Don't go near my kid or I'll blast you'. 

 

Has society gotten so rotten that we cannot ride our bikes anymore?

Not my kids !!! 

[TheMastodon]

1 hour ago, broberts said:

 

I've often thought that skepticism was simply intellectual lazyness.

Yeah quite the opposite.  

[ljones]

Am booked for January 2022 for New Zealand, following Australia cruise & not sure if either Country will be allowing visitors then.  I would not cancel either if masks are required & have booked all ship excursions for Australia (suspecting it may be required) but am hoping just to walk around in NZ ports as have friend there...  Have Africa cruise for late 2022 & have booked all private tours...and may still wear a mask more often than not.  Not everyone on or off the ships will have been vaccinated.

[coffeebean]

5 hours ago, broberts said:

 

The sad fact is we are a society that does not listen carefully and mostly hears what we want to hear.

 

Masks do not provide much protection to the wearer. They do provide protection to those that interact with the wearer. 

 

Exactly. AKA source control.

[coffeebean]

3 hours ago, Mikew0805 said:

Of course they are not new. Staff at my organization who do not vaccinate against the flu every year are required to wear a mask from Oct 1 - March 31.  The evolution of knowledge I was referring to was in regards to SARS-CoV-2.

 

Really?

Get the flu vaccine = no mask

No flu vaccine = must wear a mask

Geez.....that's a no brainer.

[ljones]

I recall hearing the Gov of S Dakota bragging about not following CDC, not shutting down or requiring masks... https://www.foxnews.com/politics/south-dakota-gov-noem-blasts-fauci-contrasts-her-covid-measures-with-cuomo

 

I'll continue to follow my state & wear a mask:

https://www.statista.com/statistics/1109004/coronavirus-covid19-cases-rate-us-americans-by-state/

 

 

 

[Ocean Boy]

2 hours ago, baldilocks said:

I'm old, but I remember the 'good ol' days'. We didn't know about peanut allergies, glucose intolerance, etc. We played outdoors and when somebody go hurt, we hauled him off to his house for his mother to take care of him. The doctor made house calls. Band aids were popular. We rode our bikes all over the place. We would be away from home hours at time. In my wife's school, students even brought rifles / shotguns to school so they could go hunting after classes. No one was going to shoot anyone but the poor bunny. 

 

Now we want all kids to be rolled up in bubble wrap and have a parent standing next to him with a shotgun to protect him, 'Don't go near my kid or I'll blast you'. 

 

Has society gotten so rotten that we cannot ride our bikes anymore?

You want to hear something really crazy? Being the school district physician periodically I teach some health classes at the high school. Sometimes mothers call their kids while they are in school just to ask them how their day is going. That used to be a question left for dinner time back in my day.

 

And, BTW, I remember childhood pretty much the way you do. Heck back then we even used to climb trees.😯

[OnTheJourney]

24 minutes ago, coffeebean said:

Get the flu vaccine = no mask

Not really....at least not for awhile. If everyone thinks like this it could wind up being a mistake. There are just too many uncertainties, to wit:  1) how long does the vaccine remain effective, and also 2) what will continue to be the role of variants going forward - which leads to one more - how will the variants that come along interplay with the vaccine effectiveness.  We're really still in the infancy of this vaccination phase and have no idea what the virus will continue to do going forward.  I like to be as optimistic as anyone, but just don't think we're anywhere near 'out of the woods'. 

Edited March 7, 2021 by OnTheJourney

[Tippyton]

3 hours ago, Mikew0805 said:

Of course they are not new. Staff at my organization who do not vaccinate against the flu every year are required to wear a mask from Oct 1 - March 31.  The evolution of knowledge I was referring to was in regards to SARS-CoV-2.

The CDC became politicized.  As did the pre-emanant fantastic Dr. F whom I shall not criticize or spell phonetically so I don't get put in CC jail for hate speech.   The CDC website is not user friendly.  And for examples - they are still using a less than 6 feet for more than 15 minutes metric.  Whaaa? (for me is was a brief encounter with an asymtomatic).  The science says it can be a quick encounter.   And they are using 14 days still for quarantine if you've been exposed.  The science says the average is 5-6 days and most before 10 days.  And there is a 3-month variance to all these rules if you've been infected.  The science says immunity is longer.  One mask, no masks, two masks, or 2 masks "most of the time" (Dr. F quote.)  

 

Complete mealy mouthed pabulum spewing government bureaucracy that failed the people early on.  Complete Dearth of Credibility

[Tippyton]

2 hours ago, broberts said:

 

We have a tendency to remember the good and forget the bad.

 

I don't think society is much more rotten than it was. However, unlike yesteryear we have instant reporting with visuals. 

And a world full of Karens.  Baldilocks remembers them - they were the crazy moms you stayed away from while having their kids over for a normal afternoon.