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Carnival CEO Says No Vaccination Requirement

Djptcp

By Djptcp,
in Holland America Line

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Vict0riann "Live from...." Rare

Vict0riann

Posted
Posted

I think in years to come, when/if the pandemic is over, things will settle down and proof of a vaccination may not be required.  But for now, while around the world, Covid is raging, we won't be able to risk going out into the big, bad world, if we aren't sure we're going to be protected by having everyone around us vaccinated.  We are booked on the Rotterdam inaugural with @Av8rix, I think that will be just too soon for us.  Then, they are going to say we have to take ship's excursions so we are "safe", but exposing us to possible infection at the same time.  

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AncientWanderer

AncientWanderer

Posted
Posted
11 hours ago, Hlitner said:

Seabourn is starting cruises on July 2 from Athens, Greece on the Ovation.  Those cruises require that all passengers (and crew) must be vaccinated.  So I guess we could conclude that Mr. Donald is not consistent.   But I do understand he has a big problem with his Carnival brand since their ships always have a lot of children and young teens among their passengers.  Since there is currently no approved vaccine for the kids, I guess Donald must defend a no mandated vaccination policy.

 

Hank

 

Unfortunately, his big problem will become our big problem.  It's not okay to let shiploads full of people get back in the business of spreading COVID-19 around the world to generate mutations in whatever countries will accept his ships.   It's just not.  I understand he has a problem with his younger clientele on the Carnival brand.  That's a shame for him.

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Hlitner "Live from...." Rare

Hlitner

Posted
Posted
10 minutes ago, AncientWanderer said:

 

Unfortunately, his big problem will become our big problem.  It's not okay to let shiploads full of people get back in the business of spreading COVID-19 around the world to generate mutations in whatever countries will accept his ships.   It's just not.  I understand he has a problem with his younger clientele on the Carnival brand.  That's a shame for him.

So I will ask you a question.  Let us assume that a ship requires every soul aboard to be vaccinated (and might even require a pre cruise test to add another layer of safety).  I do not see any problem with this and am, in fact, looking at a European cruise that has such a standard.  But I agree with you (and others) that Mr. Donald's resistance to mandatory vaccination makes little sense.  It may well be that the decision will be taken out of his hands if the CDC eventually wakes up and simply requires mandatory vaccination as the basic requirement to begin operations in the USA.  Then Mr. Donald will have two choices....1. comply or 2. do not cruise involving US ports.

 

Hank

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Daniel A

Daniel A

Posted
Posted
6 minutes ago, Hlitner said:

It may well be that the decision will be taken out of his hands if the CDC eventually wakes up and simply requires mandatory vaccination as the basic requirement to begin operations in the USA.  Then Mr. Donald will have two choices....1. comply or 2. do not cruise involving US ports.

You seem to be very knowledgeable in some of the technical medical issues.  Maybe you can shed some light on whether or not the federal government can legally mandate a vaccine which has not received full, final FDA approval.  I am working on the premise that an EUA is not enough to do that.

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HappyInVan

HappyInVan

Posted
Posted

I'm sorry. From AD's long rambling statement, I just don't think that CCL has a strategy. I wonder if Aniston is at work behind the scenes.

 

All AD had to say was...

 

  1. We are currently in the middle of a terrible public health crisis

  2. The safety of our crews and passengers is the highest priority

  3. We have a phased approach

  4. Starting with a few test cruises as done in Europe

  5. Following the local requirements which is a reflection of local situations

  6. Sailing without a vax mandate where possible. Sailing with a vax mandate where prudent.

  7. Hopeful, that the situation will improve. That CCL can get its entire flotilla back in biz ASAP under whatever conditions are required

Instead, AD sounded like an infectious disease expert. Defied regulatory authorities. Issued a threat.

 

The worst possible scenario for CCL is this...

 

The situation improves enough for CDC to commit to relaunch cruising. Makes a deal with the companies willing to negotiate and work with the CDC. Then, CCL (industry #1) has to FOLLOW, or make good on its threat.

 

This is a no-win approach for CCL.

 

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Horizon chaser 1957

Horizon chaser 1957

Posted
Posted (edited)

Some time back, he made a statement that Carnival Corp. would not be requiring vaccinations except on cruises and itineraries favoured by older (thus more vulnerable) guests. 
I’m guessing this leaves the door open to require vaccinations on HAL, but not on lines favoured by young families and the party-til-you-puke crowd.

I strongly suggest that if having a fully vaccinated ship is important to you, contact HAL ASAP and let them know. Or have your TA do it for you. The more advance warning they have the better.

If HAL knows they could be facing mass cancellations, they are more likely to apply a vaccine policy. Expressing displeasure amongst ourselves won’t do the trick.

We have over 220 cruise days booked with HAL over 2022 and 2023. About 2/3 is new money, not FCC. I am not risking being stranded, cut short, or turned away from truly bucket list countries on the itinerary. Without a vaccine policy, much of that may be cancelled and moved to a more savvy cruise line when the time comes.  

Edited by Horizon chaser 1957
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Hlitner "Live from...." Rare

Hlitner

Posted
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14 minutes ago, Daniel A said:

You seem to be very knowledgeable in some of the technical medical issues.  Maybe you can shed some light on whether or not the federal government can legally mandate a vaccine which has not received full, final FDA approval.  I am working on the premise that an EUA is not enough to do that.

I have wondered the same thing.  Many months ago I pointed out that until the COVID vaccines there had never been an EUA granted to any vaccine for public use.  The only EUA granted to any vaccine (of which I am aware) is when the FDA gave a limited EUA to an Antrax Vaccine for military use.

 

I also smile when I think of how government bureaucrats use language (remember Bill Clinton talking about what the meaning of "is is.")   So the CDC might argue that a "mandate" means that if you do not comply you can be fined, jailed, etc.  But saying that you must be vaccinated to cruise is simply giving you a choice (not a mandate).  or consider that the cruise lines are currently shut down (in the USA).  The CDC could (if it chose) tell the cruise lines that if they require everyone to be vaccinated it is more likely that the CDC would lift their current ban (speaking of language the CDC no longer calls it a ban but rather a "Framework.")

 

There is a related issue which are the requirements imposed by each of the various ports.  So if a single port mandates that everyone on a visiting vessel must be vaccinated then there is that!  

 

Hank

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Cruising-along

Cruising-along

Posted
Posted

I'm thankful we have a few more months before final payment for our next HAL cruise.  There's no way we would sail if vaccines aren't a requirement.  Also I cannot believe this won't change down the line....but meanwhile there will be lots of cancellations before then.  What is he thinking????

We have a Celebrity cruise booked for November, I'm glad they require vaccines!

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rucrazy

rucrazy

Posted
Posted (edited)
10 minutes ago, Cruising-along said:

We have a Celebrity cruise booked for November, I'm glad they require vaccines!

I had heard this but when I went to their website I could not find any information requiring vaccinations.

@Cruising-along is it posted on their website?

 

TIA

Joseph

Edited by rucrazy
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Hlitner "Live from...." Rare

Hlitner

Posted
Posted
18 minutes ago, rucrazy said:

I had heard this but when I went to their website I could not find any information requiring vaccinations.

@Cruising-along is it posted on their website?

 

TIA

Joseph

I think there is enough confusion to confuse confucious :).  Celebrity did announce that vaccination is mandatory on their upcoming cruises embarking from St Maarten.  They also have posted various requirements for other cruises they are starting around the world (i.e. the cruises out of Southampton and St Maarten require adults to be vaccinated and kids under 18 tested with a PCR Test).  If you are wondering about cruises that embark from a US Port, nobody really knows what will be required because the CDC still has not issued the necessary technical information that would lead to a restart of cruising.  

 

But perhaps we are looking at this the wrong way.  There is no guarantee that the CDC will permit any cruising (with or without a vaccine mandate) out of a US Port.  While there have been lots of rumors the truth is that the CDC has done squat to give a reasonable person a reason for optimism.  They could keep the cruise industry shut down for years by simply playing the same game they have played for the past year.  We are talking about an agency (CDC) that has been talking out of two sides of their mouths for a year so I see little reason to trust them to act in the next few months.  At this point if they do nothing there will be no cruises involving US ports until at least Nov and they could opt to continue the current Framework for another year, 2 years, etc.  While most do not think this will happen I do not think most would have thought that we would be here in April 2021 knowing nothing more then we knew in April of 2020!

 

Hank

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rucrazy

rucrazy

Posted
Posted
8 minutes ago, Hlitner said:

But perhaps we are looking at this the wrong way.  There is no guarantee that the CDC will permit any cruising (with or without a vaccine mandate) out of a US Port.

You are correct Hank thanks for setting me str8!

 

Joseph

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mcrcruiser

mcrcruiser

Posted
Posted (edited)

imo Follow the Money  . Any cruise line   can be committing economic suicide by not requiring  every pax & crew member to be vaccinated  . The CDC can destroy  all US ports  by  not acting  ,How many jobs/business does that destroy ?  . Economically there could be a lot of political pressure to bear to open  USA ports to cruises as long as every one on a ship is vaccinated .Certainly ,no one wants to see mutations occur because some  were not vaccinated endangering every one   on a ship & then on land 

 

 It may come down to congress passing legislation  mandating vaccinations to go or do certain   work or trips  . That would then set all standards 

Edited by mcrcruiser
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mcrcruiser

mcrcruiser

Posted
Posted

As for our 3 cruises on CCL cruise lines ,HAL ,Princess & Carnival ,we will make our decisions to cruise or not to cruise based upon whether  vaccinations will be required or not .If required we will go ,if not we cancel each cruise  prior to  final payment  

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rucrazy

rucrazy

Posted
Posted (edited)
5 minutes ago, Cruising-along said:

Maybe NCL is the only one who is saying vaccinated only from *US ports*??

**SPECULATION FROM ME**

Maybe the other cruise brands are waiting to see what the CDC does with NCL before making a commitment.

**END SPECULATION**

 

Joseph

Edited by rucrazy
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What was that?

What was that?

Posted
Posted
12 minutes ago, Cruising-along said:

This is what I saw.

https://www.celebritycruises.com/health-and-safety

We jumped on a Viking Bermuda cruise this summer, mainly because Viking requires vaccination (and we have been wanting to go back to Bermuda for a while).

I think Viking has a very robust and sensible approach, and hope to learn that HAL does the same.

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