Cruising Without a Vaccination

[Sinbadssailors]

44 minutes ago, graphicguy said:

...unless you're spreading diseases.

 

Nailed it!

 

The source of the paranoia is that, for the last year+, every human has been treated as if they're spreading disease(s) i.e. asymptomatic spreader

 

And therefore the government can claim a public interest - in any human

[DCGuy64]

13 minutes ago, Sinbadssailors said:

 

Nailed it!

 

The source of the paranoia is that, for the last year+, every human has been treated as if they're spreading disease(s) i.e. asymptomatic spreader

 

And therefore the government can claim a public interest - in any human

Yep, this is where the rubber meets the road.

Connect the dots:

• Every person is a potential carrier of Covid-19
• Every person has the potential to spread disease and kill people
• The government has an interest in protecting public health and preventing disease and death
• The government is therefore justified in knowing your health and vaccination status, as well as tracking your every move

And people think it's only about masks. Chumps.....

[winterbliss]

1 hour ago, graphicguy said:

In all frankness, if you're that paranoid about the vaccine, or paranoid about any information about you getting the vaccine, do yourself and other fellow cruisers a favor and don't cruise.  Not trying to be dismissive, but at some point, that level of paranoia  begins to rule your life, and that ain't good..  Ask those folks in India if they're paranoid about getting the vaccine.  

 

 

Paranoid? Not so much. I wish you well.

[Stallion]

Sounds paranoid to me too. The Government is out to get you and will use successive illnesses or other excuses to control your life.  Really?

Edited May 3, 2021 by Stallion

[oteixeira]

So I think the disconnect here is we have two groups of folks.  Let me know if I am way off base.

 

Group 1.  The government already can track us (you carry a cell phone right?) and  are OK with that as long as we can live our lives.  This groups also believes (for the most part) that unless you do something really bad the government ISN'T actively tracking you.

Group 2.  The government is using Covid as a new way to track you, and plans to do so more and more in the future.

Would we say this is right??  I am firmly in group 1 by the way.  As I said I do work in big data and I can assure you whatever the government (or anyone with the money to purchase the data) wanted to know about you they already have access to.  I am not sure what the vaccine is going to add to the information they already have available.

[RocketMan275]

2 hours ago, DCGuy64 said:

Yep, this is where the rubber meets the road.

Connect the dots:

• Every person is a potential carrier of Covid-19
• Every person has the potential to spread disease and kill people
• The government has an interest in protecting public health and preventing disease and death
• The government is therefore justified in knowing your health and vaccination status, as well as tracking your every move

And people think it's only about masks. Chumps.....

If those are accepted as valid, then the government can insist upon knowing your exercise regime and how much broccoli you consume.

[DCGuy64]

2 hours ago, Stallion said:

Sounds paranoid to me too. The Government is out to get you and will use successive illnesses or other excuses to control your life.  Really?

Crazy, right? Gotta be.

I mean, next they'll consider putting people in internment camps just because they're ethnically related to people we're fighting in a war. Impossible! <s>

[graphicguy]

4 hours ago, Stallion said:

Sounds paranoid to me too. The Government is out to get you and will use successive illnesses or other excuses to control your life.  Really?

Government can't even manage itself.  You think they're out to get us?

 

I agree.  That's the very definition of paranoid.

[graphicguy]

We keep coming back to the same fact.  If you aren't vaccinated, you aren't cruising on NCL....at least no time in the foreseeable future.  You can agree with it.  You can whine about it.  You can pout about it.  What you can't do, is change it.

 

I concur with NCL.  100% vaccinations.  That's why I booked with them, and not another line.

[eileeshb]

On 4/30/2021 at 11:10 PM, kelib said:

Good to know and I will let her know. She was also pregnant when the vaccine came out (high risk) so may have played a factor. I will find out if she knows about this but I also know she is scared. 

The Irish medical authorities have just announced they’re pushing pregnant women higher up the priority list for vaccines because of increasing levels of covid infection and increased numbers of still births.

 

[eileeshb]

On 5/2/2021 at 2:47 PM, mscdivina2016 said:

Right now, yes!

That's what they are doing in Italy now.

But 100 percent vacinated is exactly that. If we are all protected than no one needs to worry.

If not, I would want to know the cabin I am about to occupy whether the previous occupant was or wasn't vaccinated.

It's easy to tought your great safety plan and protocols on paper but we all know it's not really happening to the full extent. It's smoke and mirrors.

Steve

The EU is developing a “digital green certificate “ to allow cross-border verification of vaccine status. The Irish government was resistant to it but I think it’ll happen here too as tourism is a significant share of our economy. The EU are also in discussion with the USA about having a system to share that certification. I’d expect it to be added to the USA ETSA system, they already ask for our social media accounts though it was optional for Irish visitors the last time I filled it out. 
A fair few countries have some sort of ETSA system to allow visa-free travel for citizens of certain other countries it would seem like the most logical place for vaccine status to be logged by international travellers. I have to get a new one every 2 years for travel to the USA... handily I think my last one expired just after my 2019 cruise so I won’t be filling it out again until early next year if the CDC finally decides to accept proof of vaccinations from those travelling to the USA. 

[milolii]

30 minutes ago, eileeshb said:

The EU is developing a “digital green certificate “ to allow cross-border verification of vaccine status. The Irish government was resistant to it but I think it’ll happen here too as tourism is a significant share of our economy. The EU are also in discussion with the USA about having a system to share that certification. I’d expect it to be added to the USA ETSA system, they already ask for our social media accounts though it was optional for Irish visitors the last time I filled it out. 
A fair few countries have some sort of ETSA system to allow visa-free travel for citizens of certain other countries it would seem like the most logical place for vaccine status to be logged by international travellers. I have to get a new one every 2 years for travel to the USA... handily I think my last one expired just after my 2019 cruise so I won’t be filling it out again until early next year if the CDC finally decides to accept proof of vaccinations from those travelling to the USA. 

Thanks for the update. 

[graphicguy]

Just saw this.....

 

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/covid-vaccine-pfizer-adolescents/

 

Good news for those who want to cruise with their teens.

[kitty-sail]

22 hours ago, graphicguy said:

Just saw this.....

 

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/covid-vaccine-pfizer-adolescents/

 

Good news for those who want to cruise with their teens.

I also read where a few non-vaccinated passengers  would be allowed to cruise as long as 98% of the ship is vaccinated. This might be the exception to allow those who can't take vaccine (ie babies or very small children).

[Laszlo]

Some of you need to face the facts and stop the whining. No amount of bitching a complaining here is going to change anything. Its most likely cruise line will have mandetory vaccine requirements. Don't want to get a vaccine? You better find something else to do

[roger001]

18 minutes ago, Laszlo said:

Some of you need to face the facts and stop the whining. No amount of bitching a complaining here is going to change anything. Its most likely cruise line will have mandatory vaccine requirements. Don't want to get a vaccine? You better find something else to do

From today's USA Today, it appears that a bunch of folks will not be cruising then.  At the moment the US has 44% of the adult population with one shot and 31% with both shots.  Bad news is that demand for the vaccination is dropping rapidly.  Around here, Tennessee, plenty of vaccine available, and I saw yesterday that at several places around here have signs that everyone is eligible to just walk in and get it any time, no waiting, no lines....but no takers.  

[pmd98052]

45 minutes ago, roger001 said:

From today's USA Today, it appears that a bunch of folks will not be cruising then.  At the moment the US has 44% of the adult population with one shot and 31% with both shots.  Bad news is that demand for the vaccination is dropping rapidly.  Around here, Tennessee, plenty of vaccine available, and I saw yesterday that at several places around here have signs that everyone is eligible to just walk in and get it any time, no waiting, no lines....but no takers.  

 

The power of political persuasion. It amuses me no end that the people who don't want the vaccine because "the Gov will use it to track/control me" are the very same people who also claim, "the Government can't run any services/programs correctly" - How the hell the expect the Gov to be successfully tracking/controlling them when they can't even manage garbage collection services is just funny to me.

[Laszlo]

48 minutes ago, roger001 said:

From today's USA Today, it appears that a bunch of folks will not be cruising then.  At the moment the US has 44% of the adult population with one shot and 31% with both shots.  Bad news is that demand for the vaccination is dropping rapidly.  Around here, Tennessee, plenty of vaccine available, and I saw yesterday that at several places around here have signs that everyone is eligible to just walk in and get it any time, no waiting, no lines....but no takers.  

Good, I wouldn't mind 1/3 less people on a cruise ship. Won't mind paying the extra cost either

[graphicguy]

1 hour ago, kitty-sail said:

I also read where a few non-vaccinated passengers  would be allowed to cruise as long as 98% of the ship is vaccinated. This might be the exception to allow those who can't take vaccine (ie babies or very small children).

I think the 95%-98% numbers were the CDC's guideline.  NCL is going even further.  They're requiring 100% COVID vaccines for both crew and passengers.  That's a good thing.

[graphicguy]

59 minutes ago, roger001 said:

From today's USA Today, it appears that a bunch of folks will not be cruising then.  At the moment the US has 44% of the adult population with one shot and 31% with both shots.  Bad news is that demand for the vaccination is dropping rapidly.  Around here, Tennessee, plenty of vaccine available, and I saw yesterday that at several places around here have signs that everyone is eligible to just walk in and get it any time, no waiting, no lines....but no takers.  

Yep....no cruise for the non-vaccinated.  

 

I do believe that the people who refuse the COVID vaccine will be excluded from so many things, not only just cruising, that to do the things they enjoy, they'll see the light and get vaccinated.  If not, they'll "harrumph and complain" the rest of their days about those exclusions. 

 

As it relates to cruising, NCL having the 100% vaccine requirement will be in effect for a while.  Given they're sailing less than full capacity for the foreseeable future, not having "non-vaccinated" children/teens won't affect them.  

[hallux]

43 minutes ago, graphicguy said:

that to do the things they enjoy, they'll see the light and get vaccinated

No, they'll form a lobbying group and fight to be considered a protected class so they CAN'T be excluded due to anti-discrimination laws...

[PTC DAWG]

I really don't see the difference in the cruise lines requiring proper ID to sail and proof of a vaccine.  I suppose you could call either one discriminatory.  

 

Getting 2nd Moderna next week, ready to sail.  

[graphicguy]

1 hour ago, hallux said:

No, they'll form a lobbying group and fight to be considered a protected class so they CAN'T be excluded due to anti-discrimination laws...

LOL!  Wouldn't doubt it.  By the time that winds its way through the courts in 3-4 years, the point will be moot.  It wouldn't be successful to begin with, unless someone, somewhere buys into it that they're somehow protected under the Americans with Disabilities Act.  And, if so, that would be an insult to those who truly have disabilities.

[harkinmr]

1 hour ago, hallux said:

No, they'll form a lobbying group and fight to be considered a protected class so they CAN'T be excluded due to anti-discrimination laws...

Highly unlikely to happen.  Vaccine mandates have been upheld before by the US Supreme Court and "protected class" status would be very hard to establish based on "just not wanting to be vaccinated".  The vaccines will be fully approved within a month or two and the emergency use argument will disappear.  There are already schools and employers requiring the vaccines and the EEOC came out with an early advisory that a mandate can be enforced.  Will there be challenges?  Yes.  Will they be successful?  Based on precedent, not likely.

[coffeebean]

2 hours ago, hallux said:

No, they'll form a lobbying group and fight to be considered a protected class so they CAN'T be excluded due to anti-discrimination laws...

Well that just seems downright silly. Lobby to be a "protected class" when they did absolutely nothing to protect themselves to begin with. And.......they could have been protected from the virus for no expense to them. That lobby  just seems ludicrous to me.