New updates as of 5/21

[Jeremiah1212]

We're still waiting for the CDC to post the anticipated updates this week, so far there are a couple pieces of good news. @orville99 on the RCL board posted this message from an RCL email outlining specific vaccination requirements. For cruises before Aug 1, all guests 16 and over must be vaccinated, after Aug 1 all guests 12 and over must be fully vaccinated. This matches what Celebrity communicated earlier in the week but I have not seen it in writing yet. 

 

Also, Carnival has communicated to guests that they have approval for cruises longer than 7 days. This was somewhat expected, but they are confident enough in it now to email guests booked on those cruises. 

 

Hopefully more to come soon.

 

 

Edited May 21, 2021 by Jeremiah1212

[Ken the cruiser]

Now if Celebrity could just finish up their extensive discussions with the Port Everglades Authority and announce their intentions regarding the Edge and Equinox, that would be great!

[AbbyCruiser45]

17 minutes ago, Ken the cruiser said:

Now if Celebrity could just finish up their extensive discussions with the Port Everglades Authority and announce their intentions regarding the Edge and Equinox, that would be great!

Agree! Patiently waiting for this! We’re booked on the Equinox but we’re prepared to jump ship (sorry I can’t help myself) to the Edge if they decide to start with only one ship. 

[MarkWiltonM]

The Alaska cruises are going to require vaccination (a good thing IMO). It's still up in the air what will happen with any cruises from Florida ports that want to require vaccination--contrary to recently enacted Florida law. For those ships that don't require vaccination, Florida ports won't be a problem but the CDC's rules for unvaccinated cruises will likely be much more onerous and complicated for the cruise lines.

Edited May 21, 2021 by MarkWiltonM
clarity

[Ken the cruiser]

For some reason which is probably not true of course, I'm thinking they're holding off announcing anything as they might be worried some folks might "jump ship" from one of the cruises out of St Maarten. 

[Jeremiah1212]

9 minutes ago, MarkWiltonM said:

The Alaska cruises are going to require vaccination (a good thing IMO). It's still up in the air what will happen with any cruises from Florida ports that want to require vaccination--contrary to recently enacted Florida law. For those ships that don't require vaccination, Florida ports won't be a problem but the CDC's rules for unvaccinated cruises will likely be much more onerous and complicated for the cruise lines.

 

The message so far from Celebrity is that they are doing vaccinated cruises from FL despite whatever is in the current law. When it was mentioned with Celebrity and a CLIA rep they addressed it in no uncertain terms. 

[lazydayz]

48 minutes ago, Jeremiah1212 said:

 

The message so far from Celebrity is that they are doing vaccinated cruises from FL despite whatever is in the current law. When it was mentioned with Celebrity and a CLIA rep they addressed it in no uncertain terms. 

 

That would be great! 

[lazydayz]

34 minutes ago, doneall50 said:

If FL has “limited statuary authority with respect to cruise lines” might this mean the the statute banning businesses from requiring proof of vaccination does not apply to them? I’m not an attorney but if one would like to comment I’m all ears. 

 

I  just read the letter from Scott A. Rivkees, M.D. to RCC.  Dr. Rivkees writes that the Florida Department of Health (not the State of Florida) "has limited statutory authority with respect to cruise lines, and the Department's permission is not required for your company to resume operations."  Dr. Rivkees then discusses the CDC/Florida litigation and says in the event the Conditional Sailing Order is upheld, "this letter satisfies the requirement that your company receive approval from the Department."

 

Dr. Rivkees makes clear he is writing on behalf of the Department of Health, not for the State of Florida as a whole. 

[ChutChut]

48 minutes ago, lazydayz said:

 

I  just read the letter from Scott A. Rivkees, M.D. to RCC.  Dr. Rivkees writes that the Florida Department of Health (not the State of Florida) "has limited statutory authority with respect to cruise lines, and the Department's permission is not required for your company to resume operations."  Dr. Rivkees then discusses the CDC/Florida litigation and says in the event the Conditional Sailing Order is upheld, "this letter satisfies the requirement that your company receive approval from the Department."

 

Dr. Rivkees makes clear he is writing on behalf of the Department of Health, not for the State of Florida as a whole. 

Exactly. Thank you for the clarification. 

[harkinmr]

4 hours ago, MarkWiltonM said:

For those ships that don't require vaccination, Florida ports won't be a problem but the CDC's rules for unvaccinated cruises will likely be much more onerous and complicated for the cruise lines.

That is an absolute given!

[harkinmr]

1 hour ago, lazydayz said:

 

I  just read the letter from Scott A. Rivkees, M.D. to RCC.  Dr. Rivkees writes that the Florida Department of Health (not the State of Florida) "has limited statutory authority with respect to cruise lines, and the Department's permission is not required for your company to resume operations."  Dr. Rivkees then discusses the CDC/Florida litigation and says in the event the Conditional Sailing Order is upheld, "this letter satisfies the requirement that your company receive approval from the Department."

 

Dr. Rivkees makes clear he is writing on behalf of the Department of Health, not for the State of Florida as a whole. 

This is not specific to vaccines.  It is simply an authorization to cruise with no statutory objections by the Department of Health. The vaccine passport ban is now law and the Governor STILL seems intent on it applying to the cruise lines, so I don’t think a waiver can be extrapolated from the FDOH letter. 

[JFontaine]

Royal just announced Alaska cruises. Fully vaccinated except for young kids.  

[lazydayz]

17 minutes ago, harkinmr said:

This is not specific to vaccines.  It is simply an authorization to cruise with no statutory objections by the Department of Health. The vaccine passport ban is now law and the Governor STILL seems intent on it applying to the cruise lines, so I don’t think a waiver can be extrapolated from the FDOH letter. 

 

Agreed.  It was just a response to Royal when they submitted an agreement, as required by the CSO. 

[lazydayz]

8 minutes ago, JFontaine said:

Royal just announced Alaska cruises. Fully vaccinated except for young kids.  

 

I wish they would announce some cruises from Florida.  "The waiting is the hardest part." 

[Ken the cruiser]

16 minutes ago, JFontaine said:

Royal just announced Alaska cruises. Fully vaccinated except for young kids.  

Two Royal Caribbean Ships to Sail in Alaska This Summer - Cruise Industry News | Cruise News

[JFontaine]

And to keep this thread up to date - Summit going to Alaska. 

[kearney]

Okay...not a lawyer... and perhaps this is a bad idea... but trying to find middle ground on the vaccine passenger issue. Couldn't cruise ships accept people at their word that they have been vaccinated...but that if they contract covid and a later review of medical records finds that they were not vaccinated that there is some penalty... void travel insurance coverage... pay for care... etc. Something that makes people think twice about faking it. That way...no 'passport' issue. Just a thought... and I know this might be over the top... but this thing keeps floating around without resolution...just gets me thinking.  I had thought perhaps an antibody test would work..to establish vaccination or at least immunity...but read someplace that that wouldn't work... not sure why...

[Arizona Wildcat]

3 hours ago, cangelmd said:

Sounds like part of the wriggling to get around DeSantis no required vaccines. If local PH has authority, the state order might apply too

Once a passenger sets foot on board they are in International territory and the Florida Gov has no authority.   Florida does not and cannot legally make requirements on who can board or not board.  That is the legal right of the ship.

[C-Dragons]

18 minutes ago, Arizona Wildcat said:

Once a passenger sets foot on board they are in International territory and the Florida Gov has no authority.   Florida does not and cannot legally make requirements on who can board or not board.  That is the legal right of the ship.

Yes, we were just talking about this last night, the Captain of the ship has the legal right of authority on board.

[Fouremco]

10 minutes ago, Arizona Wildcat said:

Once a passenger sets foot on board they are in International territory and the Florida Gov has no authority.   Florida does not and cannot legally make requirements on who can board or not board.  That is the legal right of the ship.

I'll leave it to the lawyers here to comment, but my understanding is that as long as a ship remains in the territorial waters of a country, the ship and its occupants are subject to the laws of that country. A person boarding a ship can not claim sanctuary, and crew members can't defy the laws of Florida simply by virtue of being aboard. Whether ashore in the terminal or aboard the ship, Celebrity can not ask for proof of vaccination at the current time.

 

 

[Ken the cruiser]

6 minutes ago, Fouremco said:

Whether ashore in the terminal or aboard the ship, Celebrity can not ask for proof of vaccination at the current time.

Just curious, why can't Celebrity wait until a passenger gets onboard before they ask them for proof of being vaccinated as part of the final check-in process (to circumvent the stupid Florida law)? And if they don't have proof, why can't they cancel their reservation?

[C-Dragons]

11 minutes ago, Ken the cruiser said:

Just curious, why can't Celebrity wait until a passenger gets onboard before they ask them for proof of being vaccinated as part of the final check-in process (to circumvent the stupid Florida law)? And if they don't have proof, why can't they cancel their reservation?

When passengers do their pre-cruise check-in on line, X may ask if everyone in the party has been vaccinated (just a guess). Their T&C's, which everyone is required to read, state the rules for vaccinations. Guests have up until the day of departure to show proof of vaccination. So X may have guests show this proof along with their boarding passes when they come on board. 

Edited May 21, 2021 by C-Dragons

[markeb]

13 minutes ago, Ken the cruiser said:

Just curious, why can't Celebrity wait until a passenger gets onboard before they ask them for proof of being vaccinated as part of the final check-in process (to circumvent the stupid Florida law)? And if they don't have proof, why can't they cancel their reservation?

 

😃So I guess the silly answer would be to require proof prior to check-in, collected by an out of state affiliate (works real well for HAL, for instance; they're in Seattle), and then the only people affected would be Florida residents who they might not be able to collect information from under the law. And wouldn't be able to sail...😃

 

Which is at least 90% a joke, BTW.  Cueing Jagged Little Pill, tenth track...

Edited May 21, 2021 by markeb

[Ken the cruiser]

2 minutes ago, C-Dragons said:

When passengers do their pre-cruise check-in on line, X may ask if everyone in the party has been vaccinated (just a guess). Their T&C's, which everyone is required to read, state the rules for vaccinations. Guests have up until the day of departure to show proof of vaccination. So X may have guests show this proof along with their boarding passes when they come on board. 

I would think they would need to have the client "check a box" somewhere before arriving at the ship to make sure they know they will have to show proof of vaccination once they board the ship. 

[C-Dragons]

4 minutes ago, Ken the cruiser said:

I would think they would need to have the client "check a box" somewhere before arriving at the ship to make sure they know they will have to show proof of vaccination once they board the ship. 

Agreed,