NCL suing Florida over vaccine law.

[Sunshine3601]

On 7/13/2021 at 6:41 PM, firefly333 said:

Carnival is merrily sailing out of florida. Having a good time maskless onboard.

I'm not a carnival cruiser and briefly browsed their threads.   How is carnival doing the 95% vaccinated rule without crossing the line with FL law?

 

I read somewhere they were requiring requests for families with  children under 12 that are unvaxxed to get permission to sail, but of course that is limited if adhering to the 95% rule since carnival didnt do test cruises.

[firefly333]

20 minutes ago, Sunshine3601 said:

I'm not a carnival cruiser and briefly browsed their threads.   How is carnival doing the 95% vaccinated rule without crossing the line with FL law?

 

I read somewhere they were requiring requests for families with  children under 12 that are unvaxxed to get permission to sail, but of course that is limited if adhering to the 95% rule since carnival didnt do test cruises.

Anyone not vaccinated has to apply for a exemption, the rest can reschedule. July and august have been closed though it seems some hope more spots for exemption open. 

 

Carnival decided to cut those who arent vaccinated because as john put it, he knows people dont want to wear masks on their cruise. 

 

Children's programs for the under age 12 are cancelled and if not vaccinated can only get off the ship on bubble excursions. You also pay for 2 covid tests at $150 each. They sent out emails saying people can get refunds or reschedule. They have been encouraging those with unvaccinated kids not to cruise. 

 

Onboard there is no sign of social distancing. People are cruising normally if vaccinated. You can sit at the bars and buffet is self serve, though dinner service is still reported to be slow. Carnival gave out lots of cheers free or cheap, and obc so everyone wants the steak house. Lol. Me too. I'm hoping for pay restaurants every night when I board vista. Differences between rcl and carnival. Cant use obc before you board to prebook and cheers isnt good in ports including private islands so many threads about eating and drinking. What I can only have 15 alcoholic drinks? Why cant I use cheers out of Galveston until day 2. 

 

Adding to the food theme, mardi gras is offering 3 pay restaurants free for the start up. Lol wouldnt use up all that obc that way. But it might help to already diners around more. But drinking rules and food is a hot topic. I cant wait for cheers and pay restaurants every day.

 

My friend is leaving on the Breeze today. Boards at 11 am. Go go go. It's a 5 day just restarting today. First cruise out. Carnival is just going for normal. Just fewer kids. 

Edited July 15, 2021 by firefly333

[coffeebean]

17 hours ago, 3kidsncats said:

So, if they reach their 5% cap on unvaccinated and one more unvaccinated person attempts to book, how is that handled?  At some point, in order to maintain a restricted percentage, someone may be denied, which would be a violation if they are denied service due to vaccine status.

Very true. This is why this law poses a problem for the cruise lines.

[firefly333]

7 minutes ago, coffeebean said:

Very true. This is why this law poses a problem for the cruise lines.

Huh?  It's the cdc rule of 95% to be considered vaccinated and not be required to wear masks. Quit blaming florida for cdc cso. 

 

To answer the post you quoted, you can book, but you need a exemption to board if not vaccinated. Cdc set the 95% not florida. ..carnival is just adhering to cdc protocols. 

 

If you want lower talk to the CDC or wait for cso to lift. 

Edited July 15, 2021 by firefly333

[coffeebean]

17 hours ago, Goodtime Cruizin said:

It is only my opinion but I believe the Florida law was not designed for the cruise industry but rather other areas that operate on land in the state of Florida. 

But.....DeSantis has stated he will not make an exception for cruise lines.

[Babr]

1 minute ago, firefly333 said:

Huh?  It's the cdc law of 95% to be considered vaccinated and not be required to wear masks. Quit blaming florida for cdc cso. 

So what happens if the 95% goes away as a result of the other lawsuit. Are you saying that the cruise lines will throw the doors open to all with no vaccines and no masks because Florida prohibits denial of service?

[firefly333]

1 minute ago, Babr said:

So what happens if the 95% goes away as a result of the other lawsuit. Are you saying that the cruise lines will throw the doors open to all with no vaccines and no masks because Florida prohibits denial of service?

No one knows. How would I know.  We just know right now, most are hoping and assuming if it ain't broke dont fix it and carnival plans to continue like this. Who can predict next Nov..but I doubt carnival will throw open the doors, but idk. 

 

I am happy to have cheers my next 2 cruises and lots of obc to board vista and eat all over the ship. Vista has the newer Havana area and the bar has a special menu. The cuban coffee is being discussed lol. Food and drink hot topics since we are being given all these choices for almost free. Wait the cuban coffee has sugar added later? And ccoffe bar and milk shakes .. no one is worried yet about Nov. Let's enjoy today. Personally I got $700 obc solo to spend on the ship and cheers is included so its for the rest to try. Wait I havent had the lobster rolls at sea shack. Jijis here I come. Everyone seems to be having a ball. So far slow dinners the only complaint I've heard.

[smplybcause]

1 hour ago, Babr said:

I was trying to ask what the Florida prohibits. Is it denial of service or does it include any alteration of service? I thought it was only denial, but I have not read the law.

 

But at what point does alteration basically become denial. For example if an arena wanted you to volunteer vax proof to get in the game. If you don't they'll put you in this big room where you can watch the game on large screens. They didn't deny you entrance into the arena, just altered how you were allowed to watch the game. But I would think most would see that as denying. 

[Babr]

2 minutes ago, firefly333 said:

No one knows. How would I know.  We just know right now, most are hoping and assuming if it ain't broke dont fix it and carnival plans to continue like this. Who can predict next Nov..but I doubt carnival will throw open the doors, but idk. 

 

I am happy to have cheers my next 2 cruises and lots of obc to board vista and eat all over the ship. Vista has the newer Havana area and the bar has a special menu. The cuban coffee is being discussed lol. Food and drink hot topics since we are being given all these choices for almost free. Wait the cuban coffee has sugar added later? And ccoffe bar and milk shakes .. no one is worried yet about Nov. Let's enjoy today. Personally I got $700 obc solo to spend on the ship and cheers is included so its for the rest to try. Wait I havent had the lobster rolls at sea shack. Jijis here I come. Everyone seems to be having a ball. So far slow dinners the only complaint I've heard.

Just trying to follow the train of thought. If the CDC 95% rule is the problem, what is the expected outcome when it changes? If the cruise lines have no mandated limits, and the Florida law prohibits denial of service, where does it go from there? Can’t limit. Can’t ask. Seems like no win situation.

[Sunshine3601]

37 minutes ago, firefly333 said:

Anyone not vaccinated has to apply for a exemption, the rest can reschedule. July and august have been closed though it seems some hope more spots for exemption open. 

 

Carnival decided to cut those who arent vaccinated because as john put it, he knows people dont want to wear masks on their cruise. 

 

Children's programs for the under age 12 are cancelled and if not vaccinated can only get off the ship on bubble excursions. You also pay for 2 covid tests at $150 each. They sent out emails saying people can get refunds or reschedule. They have been encouraging those with unvaccinated kids not to cruise. 

 

Onboard there is no sign of social distancing. People are cruising normally if vaccinated. You can sit at the bars and buffet is self serve, though dinner service is still reported to be slow. Carnival gave out lots of cheers free or cheap, and obc so everyone wants the steak house. Lol. Me too. I'm hoping for pay restaurants every night when I board vista. Differences between rcl and carnival. Cant use obc before you board to prebook and cheers isnt good in ports including private islands so many threads about eating and drinking. What I can only have 15 alcoholic drinks? Why cant I use cheers out of Galveston until day 2. 

 

Adding to the food theme, mardi gras is offering 3 pay restaurants free for the start up. Lol wouldnt use up all that obc that way. But it might help to already diners around more. But drinking rules and food is a hot topic. I cant wait for cheers and pay restaurants every day.

 

My friend is leaving on the Breeze today. Boards at 11 am. Go go go. It's a 5 day just restarting today. First cruise out. Carnival is just going for normal. Just fewer kids. 

How is that allowed with the FL law?  I would consider that a violation since they are asking for vaccinated people?  I guess they found a loophole, wish royal would do that!  But they want to cater to families this summer.  

Edited July 15, 2021 by Sunshine3601

[Babr]

3 minutes ago, smplybcause said:

 

But at what point does alteration basically become denial. For example if an arena wanted you to volunteer vax proof to get in the game. If you don't they'll put you in this big room where you can watch the game on large screens. They didn't deny you entrance into the arena, just altered how you were allowed to watch the game. But I would think most would see that as denying. 

 
Yes, that is why I was asking about what the law stated. Many would say the service in question is viewing the game. That is not denied, but altered.

[coffeebean]

16 hours ago, nelblu said:

How many times must you repeat yourself not only on this thread but some of the closed ones..

Evidently, you don't agree with my POV. LOL.

[Dat Cruisin Couple]

4 minutes ago, Babr said:

 
Yes, that is why I was asking about what the law stated. Many would say the service in question is viewing the game. That is not denied, but altered.

 

So right now the cruise can say 95% vaxxed and point to the CDC. If the CSO get thrown out and the cruiselines think 95% is the way to go, they can still do it. But they will have to own the decision.

[Dat Cruisin Couple]

19 minutes ago, smplybcause said:

 

But at what point does alteration basically become denial. For example if an arena wanted you to volunteer vax proof to get in the game. If you don't they'll put you in this big room where you can watch the game on large screens. They didn't deny you entrance into the arena, just altered how you were allowed to watch the game. But I would think most would see that as denying. 

 

But what if you got the sucky seats because others bought their tickets earlier or brought 5 canned goods(for a food drive) or paid more. The cruise lines break passengers up by class all the time. The solarium or the suite or diamond lounge. Are you being denied if don't meet the criteria in those situations?

[firefly333]

19 minutes ago, Sunshine3601 said:

How is that allowed with the FL law?  I would consider that a violation since they are asking for vaccinated people?  I guess they found a loophole, wish royal would do that!  But they want to cater to families this summer.  

Lol I'm not a lawyer but they are happily sailing. Maybe it's showing the card is voluntary, if you want to cruise. It's your choice to cruise. 

 

I think the cancelled carnival cruisers have to come over to royal to cruise. Or one booked celebrity to get his kids guaranteed to board. Royal is the cruiseline for the unvaccinated right now.

[coffeebean]

16 hours ago, jean87510 said:

And the sad pathetic part is they actually think people are listening to them.

But..........people DO listen. Otherwise comments like this would not even be uttered. Seems to me, when someone does not agree with a person's POV, protesting about it what that person does. That is OK. It makes the discussion more lively and I embrace that.

[smplybcause]

1 minute ago, Dat Cruisin Couple said:

 

But what if you got the sucky seats because others bought their tickets earlier or brought 5 canned goods(for a food drive) or paid more. The cruise lines break passengers up by class all the time. The solarium or the suite or diamond lounge. Are you being denied if don't meet the criteria in those situations?

 

That's a horrible analogy. You still paid for the specific sucky seats. So the sucky seats are EXACTLY WHAT YOU PAID FOR. Until they released the protocols, people bought the cruise with certain things included based on the cabin you bought. Those things are now not included if you're not vaxed. So you're denied some of the services you paid for.

 

I'm not arguing to give them a free for all. I'm just saying I don't see how it's not denying them service . If when I purchased the cruise I had access to the Solarium and now I am denied entry to the Solarium and a lot more of the ship - how is that not being denied? 

 

Similarly on Carnival and Celebrity if more than 5% unvax showed up at the port they would not be allowed to board the ship. So the lines may be saying people have to volunteer their proof - but when the ship won't sail without 95% of the people showing the proof - is it really voluntary? Because those ships require 95% of their guests to show the card in order to leave the dock even though their website says it's voluntary. 

[xpcdoojk]

1 minute ago, coffeebean said:

But..........people DO listen. Otherwise comments like this would not even be uttered. Seems to me, when someone does not agree with a person's POV, protesting about it what that person does. That is OK. It makes the discussion more lively and I embrace that.

 

I think you are confusing reading something and agreeing with it and then changing their minds.

 

People read it and disagree or they agree because they already agree.

 

In other words it is getting beyond boring and bordering on obnoxious to keep posting the same stuff on every thread on this topic.  Believe me when I say nobody is changing their opinion based on your or my or anyone in this forum’s posts.  Sadly, people only post to reinforce their own beliefs.  

 

JMHO but it is true

 

jc

 

 

[mauraoel]

1 minute ago, smplybcause said:

 

That's a horrible analogy. You still paid for the specific sucky seats. So the sucky seats are EXACTLY WHAT YOU PAID FOR. Until they released the protocols, people bought the cruise with certain things included based on the cabin you bought. Those things are now not included if you're not vaxed. So you're denied some of the services you paid for.

 

It is not a denial of service it is just a modification of the cruise contract which is done all the time.

[coffeebean]

13 hours ago, firefly333 said:

Guess what, carnival is operating without masking, or social distancing   and wait for it .. self serve buffet. Cant wait for my maskless cruise. Hoping rcl changes and quits requiring them.

 

Carnival does offer bubble excursions with your unvaccinated kids .. just dont sign up for this. 

Yes, I'm aware Carnival is operating with relaxed protocols, including the self serve buffet. I've been on the Carnival forum and have read their thread about the self serve buffet.

[smplybcause]

8 minutes ago, mauraoel said:

It is not a denial of service it is just a modification of the cruise contract which is done all the time.

 

But it's a modification based on your vaccination status not because that venue is now closed to everyone or only open to those who paid for a suite. 

 

I just don't get how that's not contrary to what Desantis wants with the law. Which is why I think they're taking the if you say voluntary we'll just take it because otherwise we'll cause a huge fight stance. But then NCL just dropped the fight in Florida's lap. Though in my non-legal opinion I think the ships that require 95% vax is against the law more than royal's partitioning of areas. Why is requiring 95% to show proof ok with the law but not requiring 100%? Because the ships wont sail without the 95% it's required for that many regardless of what they call it. 

[CruiserRob]

6 minutes ago, smplybcause said:

it's a modification based on your vaccination status

Since the modification takes place in international waters can the Florida law apply.  It can get you on the ship but once outside 3 miles can the law apply at all?

[Dat Cruisin Couple]

24 minutes ago, smplybcause said:

 

That's a horrible analogy. You still paid for the specific sucky seats. So the sucky seats are EXACTLY WHAT YOU PAID FOR. Until they released the protocols, people bought the cruise with certain things included based on the cabin you bought. Those things are now not included if you're not vaxed. So you're denied some of the services you paid for.

 

I'm not arguing to give them a free for all. I'm just saying I don't see how it's not denying them service . If when I purchased the cruise I had access to the Solarium and now I am denied entry to the Solarium and a lot more of the ship - how is that not being denied? 

 

Similarly on Carnival and Celebrity if more than 5% unvax showed up at the port they would not be allowed to board the ship. So the lines may be saying people have to volunteer their proof - but when the ship won't sail without 95% of the people showing the proof - is it really voluntary? Because those ships require 95% of their guests to show the card in order to leave the dock even though their website says it's voluntary. 

 

Not really, I have had season tickets to sporting events, but because of flooding and had to shutdown access to one end zone while they fixed things.  they setup overflow seating and we had to sit there or not go. Same thing, unforseen conditions at the point of the initial transaction and they were covered because of the sales agreement. 

[Miloomar]

2 hours ago, Scottee25 said:

 

Please read my other post where I even stated that my statement was sarcasm. I do not want to see ships full of unvaccinated people, not wearing masks, freely spreading COVID around. Completely understand that as long as this virus continues to spread, the chance for further mutations is quite possible.

Oh sorry, i did see your other post... i just wanted to piggy back off your comment to stress how bad it is for the people who actually believe in your sarcastic remark... most anti-vaxxers have no idea about mutations and how they could literally be dooming the human race since you have no idea what a mutation will do

[Miloomar]

4 hours ago, bucfan2 said:

Ya, and the stars may all fall from the sky.  The fear mongering is over.  Let's talk cruising.

see, my statement is built around facts and yours just makes no sense. But nice try