NCL suing Florida over vaccine law.

[smalltimecruiser100]

Problem is other islands/countries require vaccinated cruise ships which DeSantis can't control. 

[4774Papa]

2 hours ago, smplybcause said:

 

That's a horrible analogy. You still paid for the specific sucky seats. So the sucky seats are EXACTLY WHAT YOU PAID FOR. Until they released the protocols, people bought the cruise with certain things included based on the cabin you bought. Those things are now not included if you're not vaxed. So you're denied some of the services you paid for.

 

I'm not arguing to give them a free for all. I'm just saying I don't see how it's not denying them service . If when I purchased the cruise I had access to the Solarium and now I am denied entry to the Solarium and a lot more of the ship - how is that not being denied? 

 

Similarly on Carnival and Celebrity if more than 5% unvax showed up at the port they would not be allowed to board the ship. So the lines may be saying people have to volunteer their proof - but when the ship won't sail without 95% of the people showing the proof - is it really voluntary? Because those ships require 95% of their guests to show the card in order to leave the dock even though their website says it's voluntary. 

I think the Florida law has a huge loophole.   Apparently, it forbids proof of vaccination be a condition precedent to taking the cruise.   Sticking to the CDC 95% rule, the cruise lines don't disallow unvaccinated from booking/sailing the cruise, but treat those that do not provide proof of vaccinated as unvaccinated under the 95% rule.

 

While, I prefer cruising with all vaccinated persons, I have no problem with the 95% rule and a small portion, probably mostly children as the unvaccinated.   I understand that children under 12 are believed not to transmit the virus (or significantly so).

 

If I have viewed this incorrectly, please correct me.

[coffeebean]

3 hours ago, xpcdoojk said:

 

I think you are confusing reading something and agreeing with it and then changing their minds.

 

People read it and disagree or they agree because they already agree.

 

In other words it is getting beyond boring and bordering on obnoxious to keep posting the same stuff on every thread on this topic.  Believe me when I say nobody is changing their opinion based on your or my or anyone in this forum’s posts.  Sadly, people only post to reinforce their own beliefs.  

 

JMHO but it is true

 

jc

 

 

You find it boring and obnoxious. I don't. Different strokes for different folks.

[coffeebean]

2 hours ago, smplybcause said:

 

But it's a modification based on your vaccination status not because that venue is now closed to everyone or only open to those who paid for a suite. 

 

I just don't get how that's not contrary to what Desantis wants with the law. Which is why I think they're taking the if you say voluntary we'll just take it because otherwise we'll cause a huge fight stance. But then NCL just dropped the fight in Florida's lap. Though in my non-legal opinion I think the ships that require 95% vax is against the law more than royal's partitioning of areas. Why is requiring 95% to show proof ok with the law but not requiring 100%? Because the ships wont sail without the 95% it's required for that many regardless of what they call it. 

 

[kilkoyne]

1 hour ago, grandgeezer said:

If you consider one or two ships at greatly reduced capacity, limited itineraries, and limited customer base successful, then you are right. If they continue down this exact pass, they'll be out of business before the end of the year.

 

Highly doubt it since they are testing everyone who boards their ships. 

 

You're saying out of business by end of year? SMH....We could put a wager on this....loser deletes current Cruisecritic account at end of year?

Edited July 15, 2021 by kilkoyne

[time4u2go]

17 minutes ago, Baron Barracuda said:

So why not just set fare for 7 night sailing at $1MM pp (kids under 12 sail free) and offer a $999k discount to those who voluntarily provide proof of vaccination?  Doubt they'll get many unvaccinated.

I've wondered about basically doing this also. 

[xpcdoojk]

19 minutes ago, coffeebean said:

I'm not expecting to change anyone's mind about anything. You are correct that people have a certain POV and do not deviate from that POV. Having said that, if we all didn't post our POV, we would have nothing to discuss.

True, but I think at this point everyone knows your point of view.  What is the value of repeating ad Infinititum?

[coffeebean]

2 hours ago, bucfan2 said:

I'm not 'trying' anything....I won't cave to your agenda, regardless what you say, so don't bother trying.  Stay scared if ya want.

You did not address this reply to me but I would like to take a crack at your comments if you will............

 

What agenda do you speak of? Do you understand how viruses work? It is a virus' job to mutate to continue to thrive. Sometimes mutations are better for mankind. Sometimes mutations are devastating to mankind. No one, including the scientists know how this Covid virus will mutate next. No one. That is what we are dealing with when people decide not to get vaccinated. Mutations will happen. We just don't know if we will be on the good side or the bad side of this virus.

 

The more people who are vaccinated, the less the virus has the opportunity to mutate. I'm not making this up. My comments are not agenda driven in any way.  I have read up on how these viruses mutate and why they mutate. Research the subject of virus mutations and you will realize there is no agenda.

Edited July 15, 2021 by coffeebean

[coffeebean]

2 hours ago, broberts said:

 

I don't believe it is a CDC rule so much as an option. If I understand correctly cruise lines can opt to not use the 95% option in which case voyages have to follow a different set of mitigation protocols to account for an unknown number of unvaccinated passengers.

I view it as a CDC rule if a cruise line opts not to go the test cruise route. No test cruise, CDC says the cruise line must sail with no less than 95% vaxxed and the CDC considers that a "vaccinated cruise".

[Tree_skier]

31 minutes ago, smalltimecruiser100 said:

Problem is other islands/countries require vaccinated cruise ships which DeSantis can't control. 

What countries, that Royal sails to, is prohibiting unvaccinated cruisers. 

[coffeebean]

d on board".

 

2 hours ago, 3kidsncats said:

It’s an alteration (reduction)of the service you paid for based on your vaccine status — which is not allowed under the FL law.  If it’s available to other passengers strictly based on the fact that they are vaccinated and not available to you strictly because you aren’t vaccinated, it’s in violation.  
 

I believe the state of Florida is purposely choosing not to enforce the law, because they actually want and need cruising to resume.  

IMHO, not enforcing the law makes Florida appear weak. DeSantis could have saved face if only this law excluded Cruise Lines. Then, we wouldn't even be having this discussion and Florida's cruise tourism industry would not be threatened.

Edited July 15, 2021 by coffeebean

[coffeebean]

2 hours ago, mauraoel said:

The cruise is the service so they aren't denying service.  Limiting access isn't the service.

That sounds right. I'm not disagreeing.

[smplybcause]

32 minutes ago, 4774Papa said:

I think the Florida law has a huge loophole.   Apparently, it forbids proof of vaccination be a condition precedent to taking the cruise.   Sticking to the CDC 95% rule, the cruise lines don't disallow unvaccinated from booking/sailing the cruise, but treat those that do not provide proof of vaccinated as unvaccinated under the 95% rule.

 

While, I prefer cruising with all vaccinated persons, I have no problem with the 95% rule and a small portion, probably mostly children as the unvaccinated.   I understand that children under 12 are believed not to transmit the virus (or significantly so).

 

If I have viewed this incorrectly, please correct me.

 

But the rule doesn't say as long as you don't require it of everyone. The ships NEED 95% vaccinated to sail. If they don't get 95% to show their card they either don't sail or they have to kick unvax people off. They may have gotten away from it so far because no one past the 5% has shown up at the pier (that we know of) but if someone does? That person will be denied boarding because they didn't show it. They're trying to mitigate it by contact them beforehand - but if one group say they're vax but then show up without a card tipping the numbers over 5%? We're in this weird spot where Florida gov is allowing them to hang their hat on it being "voluntary" - is it because they don't want a fight on the law, because no one has been turned away at the pier, do they think the cruise lines won't sail at 95% when the CSO goes away next week? I don't know

[mauraoel]

1 minute ago, smplybcause said:

 

But the rule doesn't say as long as you don't require it of everyone. The ships NEED 95% vaccinated to sail. If they don't get 95% to show their card they either don't sail or they have to kick unvax people off. They may have gotten away from it so far because no one past the 5% has shown up at the pier (that we know of) but if someone does? That person will be denied boarding because they didn't show it. They're trying to mitigate it by contact them beforehand - but if one group say they're vax but then show up without a card tipping the numbers over 5%? We're in this weird spot where Florida gov is allowing them to hang their hat on it being "voluntary" - is it because they don't want a fight on the law, because no one has been turned away at the pier, do they think the cruise lines won't sail at 95% when the CSO goes away next week? I don't know

No they don't need 95% vaccinated if they completed test cruises as Royal has done.

[smplybcause]

1 minute ago, mauraoel said:

No they don't need 95% vaccinated if they completed test cruises as Royal has done.

 

Great, but there's 2 other cruise lines sailing right now that are doing exactly that. And they need it because they haven't and aren't doing test cruises. They have no option but to not let more than 5% unvax on board if they want the ship to sail. 

Edited July 15, 2021 by smplybcause

[mauraoel]

2 minutes ago, smplybcause said:

 

Great, but there's 2 other cruise lines sailing right now that are doing exactly that. And they need it because they haven't and aren't doing test cruises. They have no option but to not let more than 5% unvax on board if they want the ship to sail. 

And they haven't had a problem.

[coffeebean]

2 hours ago, Goodtime Cruizin said:

 

Well.... he is. 

Has DeSantis stated that he is making an exception of this law for cruise lines and made that official? I have not heard that yet. There is nothing I would like better for the cruise lines to be able to operate as they see fit, home ported in Florida.

[3kidsncats]

21 minutes ago, mauraoel said:

And they haven't had a problem.

Yet.  And because Florida doesn’t seem to be interested in enforcing their law

[coffeebean]

1 hour ago, smalltimecruiser100 said:

Problem is other islands/countries require vaccinated cruise ships which DeSantis can't control. 

I wish he were a chess player. Then he would have realized that cruise lines should be exempted from the law from the get go.

[Oceansaway17]

26 minutes ago, smplybcause said:

 

Great, but there's 2 other cruise lines sailing right now that are doing exactly that. And they need it because they haven't and aren't doing test cruises. They have no option but to not let more than 5% unvax on board if they want the ship to sail. 

 

 

I think the cruise lines are trying to accommodate the CDC as well as parents trying to sail during a busy summer vacation season.  It is kids not vaccinated that are part of the issue.

Me thinks things might ease up in the fall.  But cruise lines are a business just like airlines and they need to get going somehow!!!!!!!

 

Also some folks who have gotten the vaccine are still getting sick.  Too many variables but we can NOT keep the world shut down.    Deal with rules, science and CDC as best they can and get sailing.

Planes are flying, shops and mall open, sports is back.  Well I do think the Olympics will be sad.

I do not understand why 20% of the BIG stadium could not have people to cheer opening ceremonies.

Also hard to believe a nation like Japan is so far behind in vaccines and development.  oh well

[TiffyAnn]

I wish all cruise lines would do this.  I don't want mine to be canceled because of the Delta varrient. 

[At Sea At Peace]

Well, Quinn Emanuel and NCLH didn't logistically get what they wanted from the US District Court, Southern District of Florida. 

 

They needed a Preliminary Injunction - - - by August 6th. 

 

They got a Hearing scheduled - - -  for August 6th.

 

It is rare in such cases that Courts and Judges 'rule from the bench' on the Hearing date.

 

NCL FILING ~

 

"For the foregoing reasons, NCLH respectfully requests that the Court set an expedited schedule and grant a preliminary injunction by August 6, 2021 prohibiting Florida from enforcing its Ban on requests for vaccine documentation pending resolution of the merits."

 

COURT ORDER ~

 

 

[Mikew0805]

On 7/14/2021 at 4:17 PM, Goodtime Cruizin said:

It is only my opinion but I believe the Florida law was not designed for the cruise industry but rather other areas that operate on land in the state of Florida. 

My opinion is in line with yours... and we don't generally agree on a lot.  😜

[coaster]

Royal Caribbean leadership is the best! At no time have they called out the Governor of Florida. A good decision to not burn any bridges. NCL under Frank Del Rio causing a stink is a bad business decision for NCL. It will just hurt them in the long run.

Edited July 15, 2021 by coaster

[smalltimecruiser100]

3 hours ago, coffeebean said:

I wish he were a chess player. Then he would have realized that cruise lines should be exempted from the law from the get go.

Agree....Look, I think he did a good thing by going after the CDC to get cruising to resume in FL but will stick his own foot in his mouth if the cruise lines pull out of FL and hurt FL economy. Cruisers need to tell him to exempt the cruise lines from his law. After all they are international carriers not local businesses in FL