NCL suing Florida over vaccine law.

[firefly333]

3 hours ago, coffeebean said:

I saw on the NCL forum a statement from can be expected from the NCL cruise vacation experience. NCL will not have any masking anywhere on the ship, no distancing with all the venues open and........wait for it............self serve buffet.

Guess what, carnival is operating without masking, or social distancing   and wait for it .. self serve buffet. Cant wait for my maskless cruise. Hoping rcl changes and quits requiring them.

 

Carnival does offer bubble excursions with your unvaccinated kids .. just dont sign up for this. 

[Scottee25]

41 minutes ago, firefly333 said:

Business needs to remain out of politics.

Is that to say you disagree with the SCOTUS decision years ago that identified corporations as people for the purposes of making political donations? Fact is, businesses are always involved in politics. Regardless of what side of the aisle you are on, there are businesses that play both sides and make contributions to both parties.

[Scottee25]

1 hour ago, Tree_skier said:

It's not that they aren't enforcing the law.  The cruise lines aren't in violation of the law.  Why is this so hard.  Please supply one shred of evidence that they are turning a blind eye to the law.  I can't understand why this is the hill you want to die on.

 

Is it a law though? Or is it an executive order from the governor's office? Honest question as I don't live in Florida and try to avoid its news as much as possible as it usually always starts with "Florida man..." 🙂

[dswallow]

6 minutes ago, Scottee25 said:

 

Is it a law though? Or is it an executive order from the governor's office? Honest question as I don't live in Florida and try to avoid its news as much as possible as it usually always starts with "Florida man..." 🙂

 

Yes, it's a law.

Senate Bill 2006 (2021) - The Florida Senate (flsenate.gov)

[Tippyton]

5 hours ago, coffeebean said:

IMHO.....the greater good would be to keep un-vaxxed people OFF cruise ships. That would be for the greater good of all passengers and crew that are in an environment that is prime for the spread of all sorts of diseases, including the Covid virus with its wickedly transmissible Delta variant.

 

Vaccines are protective against the Delta variant. Un-vaxxed people are not a good bet on cruise ships when these cruise companies are trying desperately to sail as safe as possible and to offer a desirable cruise vacation experience.

The term "Greater Good" implies a net gain for all or a significant majority.  Your definition is myopic and directed at a very finite class.

[4774Papa]

1 hour ago, firefly333 said:

All what difficulty? Seems like Galveston and miami both looked at vaccine cards. What was the work around .. I dont see the difference in how they board. 

 

The passport is the federal government taking over. That's why texas and florida voted against the passport. This is a political play, nothing else. Going to turn off many would be cruisers. I know I wouldnt buy nclh stock when I see them playing politics. They need to remain unbiased politically imo. They shouldn't take sides. Business is getting in trouble doing this. I'm one who will remember this and not book because of this. I play the stock market and think it's bad business. My money my decision but I guarantee I'm not the only one turned off. Business needs to remain out of politics. I've seen posts on the ncl board so I'm sure I'm not the only one going whoa .. bad business to turn off half the voters and get involved. I dont care which side you are on.

 

Liking ccl and rcl a lot more for staying out of this. 

We have cruised on NCL, Celebrity and Royal and prefer Celebrity, Royal and NCL in that order.

Royal seems to have the best prices for transatlantics, which is what we do a lot of.

[Scottee25]

19 minutes ago, dswallow said:

 

Yes, it's a law.

Senate Bill 2006 (2021) - The Florida Senate (flsenate.gov)

Thank you!

[Scottee25]

17 minutes ago, Tippyton said:

The term "Greater Good" implies a net gain for all or a significant majority.  Your definition is myopic and directed at a very finite class.

I am all for letting the unvaccinated go maskless and cruising. They are the ones contracting the Delta variant and dying at this point. Seems like nature is just running its course and no ones freedoms are being infringed upon. Win-win, right?

[KmomChicago]

2 minutes ago, Scottee25 said:

I am all for letting the unvaccinated go maskless and cruising. They are the ones contracting the Delta variant and dying at this point. Seems like nature is just running its course and no ones freedoms are being infringed upon. Win-win, right?

No, because a ship outbreak is still a huge problem for everyone.

[Scottee25]

Just now, KmomChicago said:

No, because a ship outbreak is still a huge problem for everyone.

Obviously you didn't pick up on my sarcasm 🙂

[KmomChicago]

2 minutes ago, Scottee25 said:

Obviously you didn't pick up on my sarcasm 🙂
 

No because too many people are seriously saying such stuff. Impossible to know what crazy points people are making with serious intent anymore.

[coffeebean]

8 hours ago, 3kidsncats said:

But you can’t alter the services provided based on the vaccine status, which is happening on Royal — numerous venues are not available to unvaccinated passengers.

As it should be.

[xpcdoojk]

1 hour ago, Tree_skier said:

Well all I got out of that is Derek is an a$$

How many Derek’s have you know that weren’t.  I only new Derek and the Dominoes and that wasn’t even a real person, and they were an A$$ they make a great album and then just blow up because Eric Clapton had to go to drug rehab from Heroin….  A complete….

 

😉

 

😇

 

jc

[xpcdoojk]

1 hour ago, Scottee25 said:

 

Is it a law though? Or is it an executive order from the governor's office? Honest question as I don't live in Florida and try to avoid its news as much as possible as it usually always starts with "Florida man..." 🙂

Yeah, passed by the legislature, aka. LAW.  

[Babr]

11 minutes ago, coffeebean said:

As it should be.

Can’t alter services or can’t deny services based on status? Which one? Both?

[ONECRUISER]

5 hours ago, coffeebean said:

Funny how those two subjects are intertwined.

But not always. Some closed due to Politics with most talking negative about leadership, others Vaccine clams and yes some inc both. 

[Scottee25]

31 minutes ago, xpcdoojk said:

Yeah, passed by the legislature, aka. LAW.  

Yep, already answered. Thank you though. I wasn't trying to be combative. I was asking an honest question.

[firefly333]

1 hour ago, Scottee25 said:

Is that to say you disagree with the SCOTUS decision years ago that identified corporations as people for the purposes of making political donations? Fact is, businesses are always involved in politics. Regardless of what side of the aisle you are on, there are businesses that play both sides and make contributions to both parties.

I dont think it's the same when a business makes a donation to both sides privately, as when they clearly take sides like ncl is doing. Coke and AA also took sides recently as a for instance. Not the same as donating to both sides and not saying so all over the public news.

 

I have done most lines myself, just saying I will think twice now about ncl. I dont think they have smart mgmt. I think it's better to be on both sides. I've done maybe 3 ncl, probably wouldnt again, but who knows. I also wouldn't be buying their stock, even more so as I think this shows they are in desperate financial shape. Not a good thing. 

[Miloomar]

3 hours ago, Scottee25 said:

I am all for letting the unvaccinated go maskless and cruising. They are the ones contracting the Delta variant and dying at this point. Seems like nature is just running its course and no ones freedoms are being infringed upon. Win-win, right?

They might die, but the virus might also mutate to be immune to the vaxx

[bucfan2]

5 hours ago, Miloomar said:

They might die, but the virus might also mutate to be immune to the vaxx

Ya, and the stars may all fall from the sky.  The fear mongering is over.  Let's talk cruising.

[At Sea At Peace]

10 hours ago, dswallow said:

NCLH has filed a motion to hold a status conference and included copies of an email chain attempting to open communication with the office in Florida. A little snit of sorts going on.

https://www.2150.com/files/cc/1-21-cv-22492-KMW-CMM/11_051023587474_MotionStatusConference.pdf
https://www.2150.com/files/cc/1-21-cv-22492-KMW-CMM/11-1_051123587475_EmailChain.pdf
https://www.2150.com/files/cc/1-21-cv-22492-KMW-CMM/11-2_051123587476_EmailChain.pdf


Norwegian Cruise Line Holdings Ltd et al v. Rivkees, M.D. (2150.com)

 

Again, thanks for the documents for the benefit of those without paywall access.

 

I love the emails.  I've read thousands of pages of such over the years in prominent cases.  Usually from the parties pre-litigation.

 

Yet there are those from attorneys.  😅  They are always a good read.  They certainly do enjoy their verbal sandbox play time.  😲

 

Couple of interesting items ~

 

"What I do mean to do – and need to do – is figure out a fair, sensible, workable way to get the PI question briefed, heard and decided in time to protect my client against impending irreparable harm."

 

This is funny and yet sad.  First, NCL "just filed" as their planned sail date in violation of the law.  That's funny.  The concept if "impending irreparable harm" is sad.  It looks like NCL might really be in tough financial waters.

 

"Second, does the State consent to a motion that we’ll be filing later today on behalf of Norwegian Cruise Line Holdings, Seven Seas Cruises, and Oceania Cruises for leave to file a very short (~5-page) amicus brief with the Eleventh Circuit in support of CDC’s pending request for a stay of the preliminary injunction that Judge Merryday entered in the Middle District of Florida? We think it’s only appropriate to alert the Eleventh Circuit to the views we’ll be submitting to the Southern District of Florida, to the extent they may be relevant to the appellate court’s instant deliberations."

 

Well there you go.  NCL is getting in bed with the CDC.  😞

 

 

 

[coffeebean]

10 hours ago, Babr said:

Can’t alter services or can’t deny services based on status? Which one? Both?

I should have highlighted this comment............."numerous venues are not available to unvaccinated passengers".

 

As it should be.

[Babr]

12 minutes ago, coffeebean said:

I should have highlighted this comment............."numerous venues are not available to unvaccinated passengers".

 

As it should be.

I was trying to ask what the Florida prohibits. Is it denial of service or does it include any alteration of service? I thought it was only denial, but I have not read the law.

[Scottee25]

10 hours ago, firefly333 said:

I dont think it's the same when a business makes a donation to both sides privately, as when they clearly take sides like ncl is doing. Coke and AA also took sides recently as a for instance. Not the same as donating to both sides and not saying so all over the public news.

 

But that is still business in politics which you said they should not do. Does it matter if it is publicly or privately? As a fellow Texan and someone who has read a great number of your posts, I would venture to say if NCL's stance had been completely opposite and they mandating that masks could not be worn on board and the unvaccinated were more than welcome, your opinion on this matter would be completely different. Perhaps I am assuming too much here but I am quite clear how a lot of people in Texas felt about being required to wear a mask during the past 18 months.

 

10 hours ago, firefly333 said:

I dont think they have smart mgmt. 

 

My belief is that they are suing in the hopes to get a stay on the law. If they can get that, then they can require vaccines while the case makes its way through the legal system. By the time it is all resolved, the matter of whether or not someone is vaccinated will most likely be a moot point as this all could take well over a year. I could be wrong on this matter but if their intention is to delay application of a law to the point where it is no longer needed is not something I would consider to be an unwise move on the part of NCL management.

[Scottee25]

7 hours ago, Miloomar said:

They might die, but the virus might also mutate to be immune to the vaxx

 

Please read my other post where I even stated that my statement was sarcasm. I do not want to see ships full of unvaccinated people, not wearing masks, freely spreading COVID around. Completely understand that as long as this virus continues to spread, the chance for further mutations is quite possible.