NCL suing Florida over vaccine law.

[dswallow]

Florida has filed a motion for an extension of time to respond to the motion for preliminary injunction. They are asking to have until July 30, 2021, and to extend the time for NCLH to reply to August 6, 2021, and then a hearing at an unspecified later date.

Of interest, though, is that as part of this motion they have included Exhibit D which is a transcript of the hearing that was held on May 12, 2021 from Florida v. HHS, CDC (8:21-cv-00839), which we haven't seen before, and isn't scheduled for release online until 8/11/2021.

Norwegian Cruise Line Holdings Ltd et al v. Rivkees, M.D. (2150.com)

https://www.2150.com/files/cc/1-21-cv-22492-KMW-CMM/16_051023592514_DefendantsExpeditedMotionForExtensionOfTime.pdf
https://www.2150.com/files/cc/1-21-cv-22492-KMW-CMM/16-1_051123592515_ExhibitA.pdf
https://www.2150.com/files/cc/1-21-cv-22492-KMW-CMM/16-2_051123592516_ExhibitB.pdf
https://www.2150.com/files/cc/1-21-cv-22492-KMW-CMM/16-4_051123592518_ExhibitD.pdf
https://www.2150.com/files/cc/1-21-cv-22492-KMW-CMM/16-4_051123592518_ExhibitD.pdf
https://www.2150.com/files/cc/1-21-cv-22492-KMW-CMM/16-5_051123592519_TextOfProposedOrder.pdf

[At Sea At Peace]

6 hours ago, dswallow said:

Florida has filed a motion for an extension of time to respond to the motion for preliminary injunction. They are asking to have until July 30, 2021, and to extend the time for NCLH to reply to August 6, 2021, and then a hearing at an unspecified later date.

Of interest, though, is that as part of this motion they have included Exhibit D which is a transcript of the hearing that was held on May 12, 2021 from Florida v. HHS, CDC (8:21-cv-00839), which we haven't seen before, and isn't scheduled for release online until 8/11/2021.

Norwegian Cruise Line Holdings Ltd et al v. Rivkees, M.D. (2150.com)

https://www.2150.com/files/cc/1-21-cv-22492-KMW-CMM/16_051023592514_DefendantsExpeditedMotionForExtensionOfTime.pdf
https://www.2150.com/files/cc/1-21-cv-22492-KMW-CMM/16-1_051123592515_ExhibitA.pdf
https://www.2150.com/files/cc/1-21-cv-22492-KMW-CMM/16-2_051123592516_ExhibitB.pdf
https://www.2150.com/files/cc/1-21-cv-22492-KMW-CMM/16-4_051123592518_ExhibitD.pdf
https://www.2150.com/files/cc/1-21-cv-22492-KMW-CMM/16-4_051123592518_ExhibitD.pdf
https://www.2150.com/files/cc/1-21-cv-22492-KMW-CMM/16-5_051123592519_TextOfProposedOrder.pdf

 

Folks should be thankful to you for providing these updated, no paywall linked documents.  👍

 

Now, it we could see some wide-spread posting evidence that such are being read.  😲

[At Sea At Peace]

16 hours ago, dswallow said:

Florida has filed a motion for an extension of time to respond to the motion for preliminary injunction. They are asking to have until July 30, 2021, and to extend the time for NCLH to reply to August 6, 2021, and then a hearing at an unspecified later date.

Of interest, though, is that as part of this motion they have included Exhibit D which is a transcript of the hearing that was held on May 12, 2021 from Florida v. HHS, CDC (8:21-cv-00839), which we haven't seen before, and isn't scheduled for release online until 8/11/2021.

Norwegian Cruise Line Holdings Ltd et al v. Rivkees, M.D. (2150.com)

https://www.2150.com/files/cc/1-21-cv-22492-KMW-CMM/16_051023592514_DefendantsExpeditedMotionForExtensionOfTime.pdf
https://www.2150.com/files/cc/1-21-cv-22492-KMW-CMM/16-1_051123592515_ExhibitA.pdf
https://www.2150.com/files/cc/1-21-cv-22492-KMW-CMM/16-2_051123592516_ExhibitB.pdf
https://www.2150.com/files/cc/1-21-cv-22492-KMW-CMM/16-4_051123592518_ExhibitD.pdf
https://www.2150.com/files/cc/1-21-cv-22492-KMW-CMM/16-4_051123592518_ExhibitD.pdf
https://www.2150.com/files/cc/1-21-cv-22492-KMW-CMM/16-5_051123592519_TextOfProposedOrder.pdf

 

NCL doesn't agree with the extension of time to respond.  😲

 

 

 

 

[dswallow]

Just now, At Sea At Peace said:

 

NCL doesn't agree with the extension of time to respond.  😲

 

 

 

 

 

The judge already ruled on providing a little more time, but left the August 6 hearing date intact.

Norwegian Cruise Line Holdings Ltd et al v. Rivkees, M.D. (1:21-cv-22492) (2150.com)
 

[At Sea At Peace]

Just now, dswallow said:

 

The judge already ruled on providing a little more time, but left the August 6 hearing date intact.

Norwegian Cruise Line Holdings Ltd et al v. Rivkees, M.D. (1:21-cv-22492) (2150.com)
 

 

Thanks.

[Pratique]

On 7/15/2021 at 2:53 PM, 3kidsncats said:

Yet.  And because Florida doesn’t seem to be interested in enforcing their law

Florida Department of Health published a notice of development of rulemaking on 6/25. The rule will establish definitions and penalties for violating the vaccine documentation law. It may be hard for them to enforce the law until the rule is finalized.

 

https://www.flrules.org/gateway/ruleNo.asp?id=64-8.001

[Pratique]

4 minutes ago, 3kidsncats said:

Good to know, and has the potential to either trigger enforcement or create a solid loophole. Although  NCL seems determined to want to exclude all unvaccinated, so doubt that will affect the law suit, unless the “rule” create a cruise line exclusion.  
 

Here in California we had a stupid law — well, I think the intent was good, but implementation was awful, AB5. It was intended for large corporations like Uber, but was so poorly written it almost destroyed the livelihoods of independent contractors throughout the state.  They had to create exclusions so hairstylists, musicians, journalists, etc., could continue working.  I would expect similar could be done for cruising, if there was a will to do it.

It is not out of the question that the fine for the cruise lines could be set to zero by regulation, if they are so inclined to codify a loophole.

[3kidsncats]

1 hour ago, Pratique said:

It is not out of the question that the fine for the cruise lines could be set to zero by regulation, if they are so inclined to codify a loophole.

I genuinely believe, in spite of comments from some levels of the FL government, that they really don’t want to put stumbling blocks in front of cruise lines, and this law was not originally intended to impact cruising.  It’s just hard to back down off that limb.  Hopefully they can figure it out, in a clear and concise way, so cruise lines can function without so many onerous hoops.

[livingonthebeach]

15 hours ago, 3kidsncats said:

I genuinely believe, in spite of comments from some levels of the FL government, that they really don’t want to put stumbling blocks in front of cruise lines, and this law was not originally intended to impact cruising.  It’s just hard to back down off that limb.  Hopefully they can figure it out, in a clear and concise way, so cruise lines can function without so many onerous hoops.

 

I agree. Florida has made exemptions for certain industries and could make an exemption for cruise lines as well. I hope Florida backs off and allows cruise lines to do their business as they see fit. 

[Babr]

16 hours ago, 3kidsncats said:

I genuinely believe, in spite of comments from some levels of the FL government, that they really don’t want to put stumbling blocks in front of cruise lines, and this law was not originally intended to impact cruising.  It’s just hard to back down off that limb.  Hopefully they can figure it out, in a clear and concise way, so cruise lines can function without so many onerous hoops.

Nor can I imagine that they want to negatively impact cruising. Their position has always seemed counterintuitive to me.

 

I haven’t made a study of it, but if cruise lines are not specifically named, wouldn’t it be easy enough to exempt them unless it is a stance demanded by a majority Florida voters? I get the impression that many want the CDC to go away but the Florida law to be enforced.

[At Sea At Peace]

18 minutes ago, jean87510 said:

here we go again.  More politics as usual.  

 

Yep.

 

Moving from 'direct to 'indirect, 'implied and 'inferred.  

 

Sad.

 

We lose threads on all the forums due to the behaviors of the same subgroup.

 

Over and over.

 

Yet the threads get closed, punishing everyone following the CC guidelines, because of those that don't.

 

It would be nice for CC to begin to 'cull the CC herd that simply won't follow the CC guidelines.

 

 

Edited July 17, 2021 by At Sea At Peace

[ONECRUISER]

1 minute ago, At Sea At Peace said:

 

Yep.

 

Moving from 'direct to 'indirect, 'implied and 'inferred.  

 

Sad.

 

We lose threads on all the forums due to the behaviors of the same subgroup.

 

Over and over.

 

Yet the threads get closed, punishing everyone following the CC guidelines, because of those that don't.

 

It would be nice to begin the 'cull the CC herd that simply won't follow the CC guidelines.

 

 

More now Postings are pulled, including on this Thread. Keeps them running but seems to be same posters each time repeating same Banned Content on Govt/Vaccines

[PhoenixCruiser]

13 hours ago, livingonthebeach said:

 

I agree. Florida has made exemptions for certain industries and could make an exemption for cruise lines as well. I hope Florida backs off and allows cruise lines to do their business as they see fit. 

 

This is promising, do you have any examples? I'd like to learn more.

[coffeebean]

9 hours ago, PhoenixCruiser said:

 

This is promising, do you have any examples? I'd like to learn more.

For starters......health care providers such as hospitals, doctor's offices, surgical centers, etc. Makes sense when these businesses are all about keeping the public and their employees safe. Too bad other businesses are not allowed to keep their employees and patrons safe from this virus.

[livingonthebeach]

9 hours ago, PhoenixCruiser said:

 

This is promising, do you have any examples? I'd like to learn more.

 

Exempted are hospitals, nursing homes, assisted living facilities, ambulatory surgical centers, physician offices and ambulance providers, among many other health care providers. The lobbyists for FL healthcare state they didn’t ask for the exemption but it obvious why they got it. 

[SherriZ366]

On 7/16/2021 at 6:14 PM, Pratique said:

It is not out of the question that the fine for the cruise lines could be set to zero by regulation, if they are so inclined to codify a loophole.

Or even a dollar as I think the law states the fine is "up to $5,000" per person.  

[Pratique]

On 7/18/2021 at 1:16 PM, SherriZ366 said:

Or even a dollar as I think the law states the fine is "up to $5,000" per person.  

The proposed rule published last week sets the fine at the maximum $5,000 per violation.

 

https://www.flrules.org/gateway/ruleNo.asp?id=64-8.001

[SherriZ366]

8 hours ago, Pratique said:

The proposed rule published last week sets the fine at the maximum $5,000 per violation.

 

https://www.flrules.org/gateway/ruleNo.asp?id=64-8.001

As it says "Maximum $5,000" Florida has the discretion to fine the cruises lines less per passenger.  

[dswallow]

2 hours ago, SherriZ366 said:

As it says "Maximum $5,000" Florida has the discretion to fine the cruises lines less per passenger.  

 

The rule does not use the word maximum. It sets the fine AT $5,000. The law allows the rule to specify up to a maximum of $5,000. And they're choosing for the fine to be $5,000 all the time.

[catty]

I keep telling NCL's sales staff I wouldn't take the vaccine, so I won't be cruising with them. I get at least one call or email a day with all kinds of perks. They better stop harassing a state and find a way to get along if they want to stay in business. 

[catty]

On 7/18/2021 at 12:26 AM, PhoenixCruiser said:

 

This is promising, do you have any examples? I'd like to learn more.

Why is a passport necessary? We didn't have then during hiv, polio, hepatitis, bird flu, German measles,  swine flu and pneumonia outbreaks.  Covid Is right under the chicken pox hysteria.  Most survived but rather painful.  

[broberts]

8 hours ago, catty said:

Why is a passport necessary? We didn't have then during hiv, polio, hepatitis, bird flu, German measles,  swine flu and pneumonia outbreaks.  Covid Is right under the chicken pox hysteria.  Most survived but rather painful.  

 

 I spent the first third of my life travelling in Europe and Africa. For a good part of that time I was on my father's passport. But I had my own vaccination passport. In other words, vaccination passports are far from a novel concept.

 

Many schools require students be vaccinated against various contagions. Parents typically have to provide suitable documentation before a child can attend. This documentation is a "passport". 

[Pratique]

10 hours ago, dswallow said:

 

The rule does not use the word maximum. It sets the fine AT $5,000. The law allows the rule to specify up to a maximum of $5,000. And they're choosing for the fine to be $5,000 all the time.

The proposed rule doesn't say much about what triggers the fine. I expected to see some more definitions of what constitutes a violation.

[orville99]

On 7/15/2021 at 1:57 PM, xpcdoojk said:

True, but I think at this point everyone knows your point of view.  What is the value of repeating ad Infinititum?

the bludgeoning will continue until morale improves...

[dswallow]

1 hour ago, Pratique said:

The proposed rule doesn't say much about what triggers the fine. I expected to see some more definitions of what constitutes a violation.

 

My guess is that's what happens at the "hearing" after someone has decided to pursue the matter over some individual's claim. In other words, it'll be one of those discretionary things because the language isn't particularly clear exactly what constitutes the breach.