CDC Yellow category for NA- does anyone have any info as to why?

[Sir PMP]

3 hours ago, ontheweb said:

The other extreme is to ignore that Covid even exists. No testing, no one has it.

 

Transparency is better. Yes, one should not panic over small numbers, but giving no numbers tends to make people think that things are being hidden. 

As long as we get real numbers..

[Sir PMP]

On 8/4/2021 at 3:54 PM, 1ANGELCAT said:

If I recall correctly 

International Indie Rock Cafe..

[ontheweb]

20 minutes ago, Sir PMP said:

As long as we get real numbers..

Transparency should imply the numbers are real.

[syesmar]

Same as yesterday, Nieuw Amsterdam is still Yellow (8/13) after today’s update, based on data submitted yesterday. Zuiderdam (crew only) is still Orange.

Edited August 13, 2021 by syesmar

[GOLDENBONNY]

15 hours ago, ontheweb said:

The other extreme is to ignore that Covid even exists. No testing, no one has it.

 

Transparency is better. Yes, one should not panic over small numbers, but giving no numbers tends to make people think that things are being hidden. 

I know a person with Covid who got negative test and I know a person without one who got positive test ( 3 test after same day proved it ) 

[atexsix]

Millie is now green, but I'm pretty sure they began their covid testing requirements last week, perhaps this is pretty effective and it'll change soon for NA.

[SeaHunt]

On 8/13/2021 at 8:31 AM, Sir PMP said:

As long as we get real numbers..

 

Just noting the Vista numbers were real if any doubts about those 😉

 

BELIZE CITY, BELIZE, Wednesday, August 11^th, 2021:  Belize received the Carnival Vista today with 2895 guests and 1441 crew on board. As per the normal protocol, upon submission of the Maritime Declaration by the ship in anticipation of its call to Belize the ship reported that it had on board 27 positive cases, 26 of which were crew members and 1 passenger. As a result, the Minister of Tourism and Diaspora Relations, along with his team from the Ministry and the Belize Tourism Board, met virtually with officials from the Carnival Vista on August 10^th, 2021 to discuss the notification that persons aboard the vessel tested positive for COVID-19.

 

https://myemail.constantcontact.com/Press-Release----CARNIVAL-VISTA-PORT-CALL-TO-BELIZE-CITY.html?soid=1105674443419&aid=pRDExy-q1lY

[dobiemom]

NA is now ORANGE (updated 8/16/21).

[KirkNC]

6 minutes ago, dobiemom said:

NA is now ORANGE (updated 8/16/21).

The best I can tell that means a small number (unknown what that means in #’s) of passengers have CV and no crew

[NavArch64]

Now I know why Capt. Baijens did not answer my question on Aug 6 at the Q&A in the Main Stage.

 

Mon, August 16, 2021, 6:44 PM

South Florida Sun Sentinel

 

FORT LAUDERDALE, Fla. — Good luck if you’d like to know how many people infected with COVID-19 are coming into South Florida seaports aboard cruise ships. Cruise lines and government agencies are not making that data publicly available as the cruise industry resumes operations from U.S.-based ports. Critics who want to see more transparency say cruise consumers and community members deserve to know how successful cruise lines are at preventing spread of the virus. Twenty-seven ships that currently operate or will be operating in U.S. waters have reported COVID-19 infections to the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention since cruising resumed this summer, according to the CDC’s website on Saturday.

Among owners of the 27 ships with reported infections, officials of Carnival Corp. brands Princess Cruises and Holland America likewise declined to provide numbers of positive cases reported aboard their ships. Norwegian Cruise Line did not respond to the Sun Sentinel’s request, and Royal Caribbean said it planned to send numbers but had to confirm them first. (More to read)

[KirkNC]

1 minute ago, NavArch64 said:

Now I know why Capt. Baijens did not answer my question on Aug 6 at the Q&A in the Main Stage.

 

Mon, August 16, 2021, 6:44 PM

South Florida Sun Sentinel

 

FORT LAUDERDALE, Fla. — Good luck if you’d like to know how many people infected with COVID-19 are coming into South Florida seaports aboard cruise ships. Cruise lines and government agencies are not making that data publicly available as the cruise industry resumes operations from U.S.-based ports. Critics who want to see more transparency say cruise consumers and community members deserve to know how successful cruise lines are at preventing spread of the virus. Twenty-seven ships that currently operate or will be operating in U.S. waters have reported COVID-19 infections to the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention since cruising resumed this summer, according to the CDC’s website on Saturday.

Among owners of the 27 ships with reported infections, officials of Carnival Corp. brands Princess Cruises and Holland America likewise declined to provide numbers of positive cases reported aboard their ships. Norwegian Cruise Line did not respond to the Sun Sentinel’s request, and Royal Caribbean said it planned to send numbers but had to confirm them first. (More to read)

I am not sure being secretive will serve them well.

[NavArch64]

(More to read)

The CDC does not currently require cruise lines to notify ports of infections if fewer than 11 passengers or crew members test positive during any voyage, Geller said. For numbers fewer than 11, cruise lines report infection numbers only to the Florida Health Department, the CDC and the U.S. Coast Guard. The Florida Department of Health did not immediately respond on Friday to a request for cruise ships’ infection numbers. A spokesman for the Coast Guard’s Southeast Region said he would look into how and whether passenger ship infection data is collected. Responding to a July 20 request for numbers of infections per cruise ship, a CDC spokesman said obtaining that information would require a formal request to the agency’s Freedom of Information Act office. On Aug. 12, an official in the agency’s FOIA office estimated the data would not be available until Sept. 2. Other ports hosting cruise ships as the industry resumes said they don’t receive regular reports of onboard infections either. Peter McGraw, spokesman for the Port of Seattle, home base for several Alaska-bound cruise ships, said cruise lines report to local health authorities, he said. Port Miami spokeswoman Andria Muniz-Amador said her port does not get regular case reports from cruise lines based there. But Port Canaveral communications director Steve Linden said his port received a notice from Carnival Cruise Line that two unvaccinated children and one of their parents, who was vaccinated, tested positive prior to leaving the ship on July 31. Under agreements between his port and cruise lines that use it, the port is notified whenever passengers or crew members test positive, he said. Basic information on the status of the 62 ships monitored by the CDC is updated daily on a web page that displays color codes assigned by the agency. The 27 ships with reported infections are coded yellow or orange, while 40 ships with no infections are coded green. None are currently coded red — which would trigger additional health precautions such as immediately returning to port or delaying the next voyage. As of Aug. 14, the CDC had assigned orange color status to six Carnival Cruise Line ships, three Royal Caribbean Group ships, two Norwegian Cruise Line ships, and one Disney ship. Orange means infections have been discovered but rates are below the threshold for CDC investigation. Yellow means the number of passenger or crew cases met the threshold for CDC investigation. Six Carnival Cruise Line ships are designated yellow, as is one each operated by Carnival Corp. sister lines Holland America and Princess Cruises. Still, key details, such as the number of infections found aboard yellow- or orange-coded ships, or when those infections were reported, are not posted on the CDC page or elsewhere on the agency’s site. And while no ships are currently designated as red, it’s unclear what number or percentage of passengers and crew must become infected to trigger red status. On a separate web page, the CDC explains that multiple factors will be reviewed with cruise lines before a ship is designated red. Generally, a ship must have sustained transmission of COVID-19 or CLI (cold-like illness) to be designated red.

CDC spokespersons declined to respond to several emails asking it to identify the infection rate threshold for a ship to enter red status and why the agency isn’t posting infection totals on its website.

 

[NavArch64]

New info ... it looks like 11 cases on a CDC CSO CSC ship is the "flip" from ORANGE to YELLOW. If that is true, Nieuw Amsterdam had at least 11 cases while I was onboard, including when I was speaking to Captain Baijens in the Main Stage on Friday Aug 6 at approx 2:15 pm. I am very disappointed that Capt. Baijens was apparently under direction from Miami and Seattle not to give me a full and open answer to my question about the CDC YELLOW status code for Nieuw Amsterdam at that time.

[ontheweb]

2 hours ago, KirkNC said:

I am not sure being secretive will serve them well.

Yes, a lack of transparency will often lead to people feeling that something terrible is being hidden from them.

[NavArch64]

What does a guest on board deserve to know about the "wellness" of all those onboard (we had 1588 + 833 = 2421 persons onboard the July 31 voyage? One side may say "nothing" ... the other side may say "everything".

[KirkNC]

16 minutes ago, NavArch64 said:

What does a guest on board deserve to know about the "wellness" of all those onboard (we had 1588 + 833 = 2421 persons onboard the July 31 voyage? One side may say "nothing" ... the other side may say "everything".

In the case of a highly contagious disease which could impact the health and enjoyment of an expensive trip, I would say enough to make an informed decision.  No personal info need be involved but if a ship has Covid in any magnitude, I believe the passengers have a right to know.

[NavArch64]

To KirkNC ... excellent statement ... I completely agree with you. I wish that the Carnival corporate office in Miami and the HAL brand office in Seattle would advise the Masters to respond accordingly to appropriate questions at the onboard Q&A sessions.

[kazu]

44 minutes ago, KirkNC said:

In the case of a highly contagious disease which could impact the health and enjoyment of an expensive trip, I would say enough to make an informed decision.  No personal info need be involved but if a ship has Covid in any magnitude, I believe the passengers have a right to know.

 

Agree.  They certainly know when there is Noro on board. 😉 

[NavArch64]

Contrast no info from HAL (Gus Antorcha) with the following from RCCL (Michael Bayley) ....

 

So ! As the clock ticks and time passes we continue the journey through the ups and downs and twists and turns of what feels like the endless pandemic ! Today Quantum, Adventure, Freedom, Anthem, Jewel, Serenade, Odyssey, Allure, Ovation, Symphony, Independence and Harmony of the Seas are all sailing (did I miss one) and by the end of August Mariner of the Seas will also be sailing ! 13 of our 26 ship fleet back sailing the seas ! All of our ships starting operating with reduced capacity either by government mandate, for example Singapore and Southampton or through voluntary caps we placed on ourselves that ranged from 30 to 50 per cent. As we move month by month we are increasing our capacity ship by ship !

All of our crew are fully vaccinated and each ship sails with a total onboard vaccinated community ranging from 90 to 97 per cent. The overall majority of the unvaccinated guests are the kids not eligible for vaccine !

Do we have Covid positive guests and crew ! Yes !

As all guests are required to be tested before boarding regardless of vaccination status we typically have 2 to 10 guests a week (out of thousands of guests boarding 12 ships) who do not board because they test positive !

Do we have Covid positive guests onboard ! Yes ! How many guests are positive ! Typically 1 or 2 of a thousand plus guests a week per ship.

How is that possible ? Testing captures status at a point of time and if the guest is incubating infection then the test will miss it ! Yes vaccinated guests test positive for Covid and typically are asymptomatic.

What happens onboard ! Quarantine for Covid positive guest and Testing of immediate travel party, contact tracing and testing of all contacts and quarantine if positive. Repatriation home via private jet in the majority of cases.

How about the crew ! Yes they are all vaccinated and all crew were tested every two weeks which we just changed to testing every week because of the Delta variant. Do we have positive crew ? Yes ! Mainly during quarantine as they join the ship and are vaccinated and tested or during regular testing ! How many ? A very small number (typically 1 or 2 every week) out of the thousands of crew.

Maybe this is too much information however having a community of people vaccinated at 90 to 97 per cent with frequent testing for all is literally one of the safest places on the planet.

[syesmar]

With today’s update (8/17), based on data submitted yesterday, Zuiderdam is Green, Nieuw Amsterdam is back to Yellow and Koningsdam is Orange again.

 

@NavArch64 thanks so much for the excellent information! Agree with what everyone has said about being transparent. I I actually feel better when RCI announces cases and keeps people informed. It gives confidence that the protocols are working. I much prefer the way their passengers have been kept informed over Carnival’s protocol of not saying anything. 

 

All the Best!

Edited August 17, 2021 by syesmar

[ontheweb]

6 hours ago, KirkNC said:

In the case of a highly contagious disease which could impact the health and enjoyment of an expensive trip, I would say enough to make an informed decision.  No personal info need be involved but if a ship has Covid in any magnitude, I believe the passengers have a right to know.

Agree 100%. And do they realize when they hide information people will often expect that there is something terrible that they are hiding?

[Vict0riann]

Yellow still, and it says "CDC has started an investigation"  Didn't it say yesterday "CDC is monitoring"?

[1ANGELCAT]

Celebrity Millie is now back to yellow.

Also, CDC keeps showing Odyssey of the Seas as being in simulation, it’s not. now on 3rd voyage with passengers. 

[syesmar]

11 hours ago, Vict0riann said:

Yellow still, and it says "CDC has started an investigation"  Didn't it say yesterday "CDC is monitoring"?

Yes, when it had gone to Orange with 8/16’s update. With the 8/17 afternoon update, NA went back to Yellow, and that’s the standard message in the first few days of being Yellow.

Edited August 19, 2021 by syesmar

[KirkNC]

On 8/17/2021 at 4:30 PM, NavArch64 said:

Contrast no info from HAL (Gus Antorcha) with the following from RCCL (Michael Bayley) ....

 

So ! As the clock ticks and time passes we continue the journey through the ups and downs and twists and turns of what feels like the endless pandemic ! Today Quantum, Adventure, Freedom, Anthem, Jewel, Serenade, Odyssey, Allure, Ovation, Symphony, Independence and Harmony of the Seas are all sailing (did I miss one) and by the end of August Mariner of the Seas will also be sailing ! 13 of our 26 ship fleet back sailing the seas ! All of our ships starting operating with reduced capacity either by government mandate, for example Singapore and Southampton or through voluntary caps we placed on ourselves that ranged from 30 to 50 per cent. As we move month by month we are increasing our capacity ship by ship !

All of our crew are fully vaccinated and each ship sails with a total onboard vaccinated community ranging from 90 to 97 per cent. The overall majority of the unvaccinated guests are the kids not eligible for vaccine !

Do we have Covid positive guests and crew ! Yes !

As all guests are required to be tested before boarding regardless of vaccination status we typically have 2 to 10 guests a week (out of thousands of guests boarding 12 ships) who do not board because they test positive !

Do we have Covid positive guests onboard ! Yes ! How many guests are positive ! Typically 1 or 2 of a thousand plus guests a week per ship.

How is that possible ? Testing captures status at a point of time and if the guest is incubating infection then the test will miss it ! Yes vaccinated guests test positive for Covid and typically are asymptomatic.

What happens onboard ! Quarantine for Covid positive guest and Testing of immediate travel party, contact tracing and testing of all contacts and quarantine if positive. Repatriation home via private jet in the majority of cases.

How about the crew ! Yes they are all vaccinated and all crew were tested every two weeks which we just changed to testing every week because of the Delta variant. Do we have positive crew ? Yes ! Mainly during quarantine as they join the ship and are vaccinated and tested or during regular testing ! How many ? A very small number (typically 1 or 2 every week) out of the thousands of crew.

Maybe this is too much information however having a community of people vaccinated at 90 to 97 per cent with frequent testing for all is literally one of the safest places on the planet.

That’s good communication.  I could do with less ! but that’s ok.