Vaccine proof question

[Daniel A]

2 hours ago, TFLG said:

Yea pretty easy to print one if you wanted.  But the risks are significant if found out.  The cruise line would almost certainly kick you off the ship and it is actually a crime.  The Federal crime isn't faking the card its using the logo/seal.  Some states are also passing laws making it a crime and some of the potential fines are HUGE.  I think in NJ is up to 10 years in jail and up to $150k in fines.  I'm sure Florida will start selling cards in gumball machines for 25c if they lose the next court case.

 

The unauthorized use of an official government agency's seal (such as HHS or the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC)) is a crime, and may be punishable under Title 18 United States Code, Section 1017, and other applicable laws.

First, how would the cruise line determine it's a fake once on board?  The person presenting the phony card will either be turned away at the pier or allowed to board.  The ship isn't going to examine any cards after that.  Nobody is going to have to walk the plank. 

 

Second, do you really think somebody who presents a counterfeit CDC card will actually be prosecuted in Federal court, let alone be sentenced to federal prison?  The Feds don't even prosecute someone who uses phony ID in order to purchase guns.  (This is a not a political statement, it's been this way through many administrations...)

[ChiefMateJRK]

3 hours ago, BermudaBound2014 said:

On a scale of 1 to 10 (with ten being difficult) it would be a 2 or 3. Easy peasy. Even easier for someone who is motivated:)
 

Probably about equal in difficulty to just getting the freakin' vaccine. 🤣  Of course, what would be the fun in that?

[Socalev]

https://coronavirus.utah.gov/vaccination-cards-what-you-need-to-know-about-proving-your-vaccination-status/

What to do if you lose your vaccination card

The process for requesting COVID-19 vaccine confirmation is the same as for any vaccine.  

1. First contact the provider that administered your vaccine and ask for a replacement. The provider will have record of your vaccination and be able to quickly provide a new one.
2. Personal or family immunization records can be accessed digitally through the Docket mobile phone app.  Through the Docket app you can review past immunization reports, track upcoming shots, and share official immunization reports.
   • To get started, download the free app by searching “Docket” on the App Store or on Google Play.   Or, go directly through Docket. 
3. Contact your local health department and ask them to print an Official USIIS Personal Utah Immunization Record for you. All Utah local health departments use or are connected to Utah Statewide Immunization Information System (USIIS).
4. You can request your own or children’s immunization record by submitting the USIIS Immunization Record Request form. This form must be filled out completely and notarized. You can submit your form using the information below:
   • Mail: Immunization / USIIS Program
     P O Box 142012
     Salt Lake City, UT 84114-2012
   • Email: immunize@utah.gov
   • Fax: (801) 538-9440
     Immunization Record Release

---

It’s still unclear whether individuals will be required to carry their vaccination cards with them. Governor Cox has said vaccination passports will not be required on state college campuses or for entering state buildings. He said it would be left up to private businesses whether to require proof of vaccination or not.

Get more information on the COVID-19 vaccine on our vaccine information page.

[TrumpyNor]

You may find this article helpful. 🙂

https://boards.cruisecritic.com/topic/2796087-a-country-by-country-guide-to-reopened-europe/

[cscurlock]

They are not concerned about verifying as much before the trip.  If you end up testing positive they will probably ask you verify the card through your state or government.  If you don't they will probably ban you on any affiliated lines. 

[Daniel A]

@cr8tiv1 has posted in another thread that a father and son were just arrested in Hawaii for using counterfeit vaccination cards.  They were caught because the local authorities got a tip from someone in the community, not because the cards were obvious forgeries.

 

Father and son arrested over fake vaccination cards - Honolulu, Hawaii news, sports & weather - KITV Channel 4

 

[TFLG]

I read today 2 tourists were arrested in Hawaii for fake vaccination cards.

[hallux]

13 minutes ago, TFLG said:

I read today 2 tourists were arrested in Hawaii for fake vaccination cards.

So did I, by clicking the link in the post (which was posted yesterday) right above yours...

[BirdTravels]

On 8/12/2021 at 4:45 PM, ChiefMateJRK said:

A person would also need to acquire the proper weight cardstock and have a printer that could handle it.  I'm sure it could be done, but it would be a bit more difficult than just printing on plain paper.

 

On 8/12/2021 at 2:18 PM, BermudaBound2014 said:

I just did a quick google search for how to get a fake vaccine card and this image popped up...... it seems to me that the cottage industry was short lived if anyone can print a blank from online for free.  What a joke.

 

Forging a US Government document is a crime. Providing forging materials (like a blank) is a crime. Most cruise lines have put out warnings like the one below. 

 

Fraudulent Documentation of Vaccination

We will record all documentation of vaccination and review it for signs of fraud. We routinely provide documentation of vaccination to immigration, health and port authorities in the foreign ports where we call. Falsifying documentation of vaccination is a crime in the U.S. and may lead to criminal prosecution in the various jurisdictions from where we sail, and in our ports of call. We reserve the right to deny boarding or remove from the ship any guest whom we believe has submitted a falsified documentation of vaccination.

 

We further reserve the right to bring a civil action against any guest who submits false documentation of vaccination to recover all costs and damages caused by such fraudulent conduct.

[BermudaBound2014]

1 hour ago, BirdTravels said:

 

 

Forging a US Government document is a crime. Providing forging materials (like a blank) is a crime. Most cruise lines have put out warnings like the one below. 

 

Of course it's a crime lol.

[fastpitchdad]

On 8/12/2021 at 5:06 PM, Daniel A said:

First, how would the cruise line determine it's a fake once on board?  The person presenting the phony card will either be turned away at the pier or allowed to board.  The ship isn't going to examine any cards after that.  Nobody is going to have to walk the plank. 

 

Second, do you really think somebody who presents a counterfeit CDC card will actually be prosecuted in Federal court, let alone be sentenced to federal prison?  The Feds don't even prosecute someone who uses phony ID in order to purchase guns.  (This is a not a political statement, it's been this way through many administrations...)

 

If someone tests positive on the cruise you can be sure NCL will verify that they have been vaccinated, and yes if someone is caught the feds will try to make examples of them.

[Daniel A]

49 minutes ago, fastpitchdad said:

If someone tests positive on the cruise you can be sure NCL will verify that they have been vaccinated, and yes if someone is caught the feds will try to make examples of them.

I'm curious to find out how you know this for sure, or is this speculation?  I think the Feds will probably only go after people printing and selling phony CDC cards.  As it stands now, various states have arrested people, but I only found one press release from DOJ for the July arrest of a woman who was selling some type of pellets claiming they gave lifetime immunity from Covid and issued false CDC cards stating the people got the Moderna 2 shot series.

 

Other than looking at the cards, how would NCL verify the vaccination of someone with a breakthrough infection?

[fastpitchdad]

3 hours ago, Daniel A said:

I'm curious to find out how you know this for sure, or is this speculation?  I think the Feds will probably only go after people printing and selling phony CDC cards.  As it stands now, various states have arrested people, but I only found one press release from DOJ for the July arrest of a woman who was selling some type of pellets claiming they gave lifetime immunity from Covid and issued false CDC cards stating the people got the Moderna 2 shot series.

 

Other than looking at the cards, how would NCL verify the vaccination of someone with a breakthrough infection?

 

There is a sticker on the Vax card that shows where you got the shot, it would be very easy to verify. 

 

As for making example, speculation. People won't be going to jail but can probably expect a hefty fine and and be flagged for what they did which, among other things, would make them ineligible for things like TSA pre and global entry and should expect the third degree when crossing a border. I can't imagine why anyone would risk that although I can't imagine why someone wouldn't get the vaccine at this point anyway.

[Outerdog]

1 hour ago, fastpitchdad said:

There is a sticker on the Vax card that shows where you got the shot, it would be very easy to verify. 

 

Not all. Many (most?) cards are handwritten, including the vax manufacturer and lot numbers.

 

[need2cruisesoon]

8 minutes ago, Outerdog said:

 

Not all. Many (most?) cards are handwritten, including the vax manufacturer and lot numbers.

 

Agreed, you can fill in the card yourself and laminate it  and voila you are ready for your cruise. LOL

[Daniel A]

The main problem with using the CDC card as a form of proof is that the card was never intended for that purpose.   The card was supposed to be a reminder for when to get the second vaccination and which vaccine was used.   It was very similar to the appointment reminder card one gets when leaving a doctor's office.  It really isn't proof of anything but people want to see some proof and it's the closest thing we have.

[ChiefMateJRK]

4 minutes ago, Daniel A said:

It really isn't proof of anything but people want to see some proof and it's the closest thing we have.

Some of us have much better (or at least more reliable) forms of "proof."  When we got our shots, they gave us prescription receipts that contain a lot more information than the CDC card.  I have those tucked into our Passport wallets (along with the original CDC cards) just in case the legitimacy of the cards is challenged.  I'm guessing if that were happening we would have heard about it by now.

[Daniel A]

4 minutes ago, ChiefMateJRK said:

Some of us have much better (or at least more reliable) forms of "proof."  When we got our shots, they gave us prescription receipts that contain a lot more information than the CDC card.  I have those tucked into our Passport wallets (along with the original CDC cards) just in case the legitimacy of the cards is challenged.  I'm guessing if that were happening we would have heard about it by now.

Agreed, if any cruise line turned away pax because of presenting a forgery, I think they would have publicized that the forgery was detected and they were turned away.   It would discourage people from attempting to use a forgery to board a cruise ship. 

We would probably see that story on CC or an internet video blog. 

[ChiefMateJRK]

4 minutes ago, Daniel A said:

Agreed, if any cruise line turned away pax because of presenting a forgery, I think they would have publicized that the forgery was detected and they were turned away. 

I wasn't really thinking about a forgery.  More about folks who were handed blank cards (or cards with only the lot number info) and told to fill in the rest of the information themselves.  Some of those have expressed (understandable) concern that their cards might not be accepted.  With thousand of folks cruising on ships requiring the original cards, if the cruise lines were being "picky" we likely would have heard about it by now.

[fastpitchdad]

1 hour ago, Outerdog said:

 

Not all. Many (most?) cards are handwritten, including the vax manufacturer and lot numbers.

 

 

1 hour ago, need2cruisesoon said:

Agreed, you can fill in the card yourself and laminate it  and voila you are ready for your cruise. LOL

 

I have never seen one that didn't have the location on it but I have only seen local ones, so fine, just ask them where they were vaccinated. If they refuse to tell you then refer them to the feds because it is probably fake, if they tell you then verify. 

 

Again, I can't believe anyone would be dumb enough to use a fake vaccine card to go on a cruise but they already refuse to be vaccinated so I guess you never know. 

[Outerdog]

6 minutes ago, fastpitchdad said:

I have never seen one that didn't have the location on it but I have only seen local ones, so fine, just ask them where they were vaccinated. If they refuse to tell you then refer them to the feds because it is probably fake, if they tell you then verify. 

 

I was simply pointing out that some (most?) cards are hand-written to include the manufacturer, lot number, location, name, date, dob.

 

A hand-written card or lack of a sticker is not an indication of a fake... that's all I was trying to get across.

 

[periodic itinerant]

Luckily, the mass vaccination site where I got my shots here is also part of the same medical system as my primary care, so in addition to the CDC card (mine did have stickers showing the lot numbers) I can log into "MyChart" and it shows the date, location, and lot numbers for my vaccines. I have saved the printable version of that with my travel documents. In addition, I can schedule my PCR test with them for my 10/3 Bermuda cruise requirement, and the results will be shown in the same "COVID-19" section of the MyChart program/app.

 

My understanding from friends who got their vaccines from other providers is that they were able to get their vaccine info imported into their medical record as well. So if anyone is concerned about having some sort of backup to their card, look into whatever system of electronic medical records might be available to you.

[ColdCruise]

On 8/12/2021 at 11:37 AM, TFLG said:

 

Using a fake card to board a cruise ship seems like a ridiculous thing to do.  Unfortunately there are a more than a few ridiculous people around that will probably do it.  I'm pretty certain if the cruise line found out they would drop your butt at the next port and ban you for life.  And if you contracted Covid, I seriously doubt they would pick up the tab to get you home.

One can only hope .....

[knitlady037]

I was vaccinated in January with second shot given Feb. 21 by NY Dept of health. Yesterday I tried to get a NY Excelsior pass for my phone so I would not have to dig out my vaccine card everywhere I went. Mandates start today in NY. They have no record of my vaccine listed. This is one screwed up system.

 

[Quencups]

The Docket app also is a database for NJ residents who were vaccinated.  Its weird....it seems to only have info for NJ and Utah residents.  You enter your information and it shows the dates you were vaccinated, the type and the batch number.  You would THINK we would have a national database.....