French Polynesia to limit cruise ships by size starting Jan 2022

[Skipper's Mom]

On 9/25/2021 at 9:47 AM, zelker said:

Interesting.  I always envisioned Papeete being the largest port.

Now, that's a traffic jam for sure.  Extremely busy.

[Tampa Girl]

On 9/25/2021 at 11:02 AM, RuthC said:

1280 was the size of the S-class ships. The R-class ships (Volendam and Zaandam remaining) were slightly larger at about 1400. 
Of course, HAL could keep the passenger total to the limit if they truly wanted to include Bora Bora. Would they? Ah, that is the question. 

 

Yes, and I was confusing the S class with the R class.  And in answer to whether HAL would limit the number of passengers, hmm.   Best guess:  No, unless they thought they would lose more customers by excluding Bora Bora.  But even so, that is 200 less passengers.  I suspect they will try to find a suitable alternative port.

[Daniel A]

1 hour ago, Tampa Girl said:

 

Yes, and I was confusing the S class with the R class.  And in answer to whether HAL would limit the number of passengers, hmm.   Best guess:  No, unless they thought they would lose more customers by excluding Bora Bora.  But even so, that is 200 less passengers.  I suspect they will try to find a suitable alternative port.

The cruise lines may also 'vote with their feet' and avoid French Polynesia altogether.  It doesn't bother the lines that Santa Barbara, Venice, (almost Key West) and now Bora Bora have become unfriendly to the cruise lines in favor of 'better heeled' (read that as wealthier 😒) tourists who stay for a week at the exceedingly expensive resort hotels.  The cruise lines will go where they are welcome and avoid the locations which want to keep the middle class out...

[crusinbanjo]

On 9/24/2021 at 6:26 PM, KirkNC said:

This really is another example of cruise lines going one direction i.e larger ships, and multiple ports limiting the size of cruise ships.  While larger ships may work in the Caribbean or Alaska, the rest of the world seems to be rejecting them.   For us, that’s a good thing.

Seems that the retirement of the S Class ships could come back to bite……….   If this takes hold in other islands,  luxury lines like SS or Seabourn will be the only options

[nocl]

34 minutes ago, Daniel A said:

The cruise lines may also 'vote with their feet' and avoid French Polynesia altogether.  It doesn't bother the lines that Santa Barbara, Venice, (almost Key West) and now Bora Bora have become unfriendly to the cruise lines in favor of 'better heeled' (read that as wealthier 😒) tourists who stay for a week at the exceedingly expensive resort hotels.  The cruise lines will go where they are welcome and avoid the locations which want to keep the middle class out...

Well to be honest if the cruise lines are not willing to work with local governments for responsible management  of tourism, than many governments would be perfectly happy for them to stay away.

 

The cruise lines ever  increasing number of ever larger ships flooding destinations with hoards of passengers is not sustainable and will lead to more ports saying no.

[nocl]

1 hour ago, Daniel A said:

The cruise lines may also 'vote with their feet' and avoid French Polynesia altogether.  It doesn't bother the lines that Santa Barbara, Venice, (almost Key West) and now Bora Bora have become unfriendly to the cruise lines in favor of 'better heeled' (read that as wealthier 😒) tourists who stay for a week at the exceedingly expensive resort hotels.  The cruise lines will go where they are welcome and avoid the locations which want to keep the middle class out...

I have flown to and stayed on Bora Bora for a week for less money than booking a balcony on HAL on the Hawaii Tahiti loop. So if Bora Bora is not obtainable for the middle class than I guess going there in a balcony cruise ship is also unobtainable for the middle class. Stayed in a nice little hotel, Hotel Royal Bora Bora.

 

Middle class is not the issue being flooded with cruise ship passengers that deliver little value ( low per passenger spend) is.

Edited September 26, 2021 by nocl

[cruisemom42]

4 hours ago, nocl said:

Middle class is not the issue being flooded with cruise ship passengers that deliver little value ( low per passenger spend) is.

 

Agreed. And also to the other poster's point, if cruise lines have to resort to less desirable locations, it will put off a large contingent of cruisers who actually DO book for the itinerary.

 

I've been a proponent of smaller ships for a long time. The problem is that the scale of ships has become outrageous. The other unintended consequence is that travelers (like me) with an appetite for travel but only a middling budget get priced out because so many "small ships" with good itineraries are now premium or luxury lines.

 

Arguments about land travel cost vs cruise cost can go either way, depending on how one likes to travel. I am fine with an inside cabin when traveling solo, but like staying in a nice and well located hotel when on a city visit. Often seems to me that when you add up all the costs, the two modes of travel are about equal.

[AncientWanderer]

Given the new constraints, I'd fly down there, do extended stay at Bora Bora or Moorea or both, hop on a round trip cruise out of Pepeete to see some islands, and then fly home.  Everything is a hassle now, right?   🤷‍♀️

 

I truly can't imagine what the cruise lines were thinking when they doubled down on such huge ships.  Talk about short-sighted....

[Daniel A]

15 hours ago, nocl said:

I have flown to and stayed on Bora Bora for a week for less money than booking a balcony on HAL on the Hawaii Tahiti loop.

Did the cost of your air trip to Bora Bora include all of your meals, entertainment and costs of visits to other French Polynesia islands such as Tahiti, Moorea, the Marquesas Islands and Hawaiian Islands?  How many weeks was the HAL balcony cruise you mentioned?  Was that cruise somewhat longer than the week spent on Bora Bora?  If you are able to find an air travel trip that will cover all of the above for less money than a balcony on HAL, please let me know and I would probably book it!

 

I think your price comparison is apples to oranges and only comparing a slice of an apple to a whole orange.  But that's just my opinion.

 

Even @cruisemom42 sees that only permitting smaller ships is pricing visits to Bora Bora out of reach of the average tourist.

[nocl]

1 hour ago, Daniel A said:

Did the cost of your air trip to Bora Bora include all of your meals, entertainment and costs of visits to other French Polynesia islands such as Tahiti, Moorea, the Marquesas Islands and Hawaiian Islands?  How many weeks was the HAL balcony cruise you mentioned?  Was that cruise somewhat longer than the week spent on Bora Bora?  If you are able to find an air travel trip that will cover all of the above for less money than a balcony on HAL, please let me know and I would probably book it!

 

I think your price comparison is apples to oranges and only comparing a slice of an apple to a whole orange.  But that's just my opinion.

 

Even @cruisemom42 sees that only permitting smaller ships is pricing visits to Bora Bora out of reach of the average tourist.

It did include stops in Honolulu, Papeete, Morea during the trip  flew by Hawaiian Air.

 

Did include meals, we often pick things up from the market.

 

Unlike a cruise every night was an overnight on land.

 

The point is that Bora Bora is not out of reach for middle class, only for large mainstream cruise ships. Just as other places, including other popular destinations in Europe, are also starting to limit the number of cruise visitors. If the cruise lines will not, the ports themselves will.

[Daniel A]

46 minutes ago, nocl said:

The point is that Bora Bora is not out of reach for middle class, only for large mainstream cruise ships. Just as other places, including other popular destinations in Europe, are also starting to limit the number of cruise visitors. If the cruise lines will not, the ports themselves will.

The point is that so many people have already booked cruises that include a stop at Bora Bora, booked excursions and now, FP has pulled the rug out from under them.  They're not really restricting large cruise ships (<3500 PAX) they're restricting people (<1200).  This is just a form of economic discrimination couched in concerns for the ecology.

 

I find it somewhat disingenuous when I see posts from people decrying the numbers of tourists in Key West, Venice, Dubrovnik, St Thomas and now Bora Bora.  When one is stuck in a traffic jam when on vacation, they too are tourists contributing to that traffic jam.  AFAIK most cruise passengers generally don't rent cars for the day.

[FBM1963]

What I am disappointed with is this is not new info.  In Jan. 2020 FP advised the cruise line industry giving them time to adjust itineraries.  But it appears HAL did not. 

[nocl]

1 hour ago, Daniel A said:

The point is that so many people have already booked cruises that include a stop at Bora Bora, booked excursions and now, FP has pulled the rug out from under them.  They're not really restricting large cruise ships (<3500 PAX) they're restricting people (<1200).  This is just a form of economic discrimination couched in concerns for the ecology.

 

I find it somewhat disingenuous when I see posts from people decrying the numbers of tourists in Key West, Venice, Dubrovnik, St Thomas and now Bora Bora.  When one is stuck in a traffic jam when on vacation, they too are tourists contributing to that traffic jam.  AFAIK most cruise passengers generally don't rent cars for the day.

Has little to do with traffic, has everything to do with masses of passengers in large numbers fitting into small areas  such as the old Town in Dubrovnik, the relatively small area of key west, etc. as well as Barcelona and Amsterdam. They are allowing large ships up to 3500 visit the less crowded islands. It is called management. Redirecting from crowded areas to less crowded ones. Same thing Amsterdam is doing with tourism there. 

 

Might as well get used to it, it is the direction many tourist destinations are moving in.

 

 the 1200  passenger restrictions were originally started before the pandemic in Bora Bora. Just like normal cruise line behavior they ignore the pending changes and still sell the destination until the last minute  just as in Venice. As long as there is the slightest chance they will continue to sell the destination.

 

The primary difference is the revenue from cruise line tourists is considerably less per person, than land based tourists. The local community get less benefit from cruise line passengers. The cruise line by design maximize their revenue, leaving as little as possible in local communities.

Edited September 27, 2021 by nocl

[dchip]

12 minutes ago, nocl said:

 

 the 1200  passenger restrictions wee originally started before the pandemic in Bora Bora. Just like normal cruise line behavior they ignore the pending changes and still sell the destination until the last minute  just as in Venice.

Which is absolutely so wrong!!

Denise

[zelker]

Sadly, HAL isn't the only cruise line guilty of this either.  And think of all the people NOT on CC that have absolutely no idea.

[Daniel A]

3 hours ago, nocl said:

the 1200  passenger restrictions were originally started before the pandemic in Bora Bora.

The 1200 limit was dictating the size of cruise ships which could anchor in the lagoon.  It was not a limit on cruise passengers disembarking in Bora Bora.  Now, two ships with a capacity of 1000 PAX can still anchor in the lagoon but 800 of those passengers will be out of luck.  It doesn't even make it look attractive to even planning a cruise there on one of their "Favoured" vessels.

 

Whatever, it will be what it will be.  I've already cancelled one cruise next year from Venice and I'll probably cancel a cruise already booked to French Islands as well.  My wallet and I will go where we are wanted.  I usually take itineraries that let me have a taste of a locale so I can make an informed decision about returning there for a more extended vacation.  (I do a similar thing at buffets.  Small tastes of some options and see what I want for a main course for my return...😃)

Edited September 27, 2021 by Daniel A

[nocl]

23 minutes ago, Daniel A said:

The 1200 limit was dictating the size of cruise ships which could anchor in the lagoon.  It was not a limit on cruise passengers disembarking in Bora Bora.  Now, two ships with a capacity of 1000 PAX can still anchor in the lagoon but 800 of those passengers will be out of luck.  It doesn't even make it look attractive to even planning a cruise there on one of their "Favoured" vessels.

 

Whatever, it will be what it will be.  I've already cancelled one cruise next year from Venice and I'll probably cancel a cruise already booked to French Islands as well.  My wallet and I will go where we are wanted.  I usually take itineraries that let me have a taste of a locale so I can make an informed decision about returning there for a more extended vacation.  (I do a similar thing at buffets.  Small tastes of some options and see what I want for a main course for my return...😃)

Just to show that they were discussing passenger limits. Here is the link to a CC topic from last January.

 

https://boards.cruisecritic.co.uk/topic/2727665-bora-bora-to-limit-size-of-ship/

 

Tendering to Bora Bora would not be easy so I don't see large ships stopping outside of the reef and tendering in even if they could do so. Fairly long tender with interesting currents at the entrances and rough water often outside of the reef.

 

If you look at the schedule, outside of the mainstream large ships(RCL, Princess, HAL, Celebrity, MSC) most ships are around 500 or so. They can handle two of the ships that normally call there.

 

One the other hand I respect the decisions of communities that want to manage the quality of life of their residents and the tourism experience. Avoiding being added to the junk heap of spoiled locations.

 

There are several other less crowded islands that are very similar in beauty to Bora Bora in the FP.

 

 

Edited September 27, 2021 by nocl

[Nymich]

48 minutes ago, nocl said:

 

 

 

 

There are several other less crowded islands that are very similar in beauty to Bora Bora in the FP.

 

 

Which ones?

[Daniel A]

1 minute ago, Nymich said:

Which ones?

For starters, Alcatraz, Devil's, Staten, Wards, Ellis to name a few, but I don't think they have any uber luxury hotels running the place...😂

[Nymich]

7 minutes ago, Daniel A said:

For starters, Alcatraz, Devil's, Staten, Wards, Ellis to name a few, but I don't think they have any uber luxury hotels running the place...😂

That was for nocl naming other fp islands as nice as bb.  Thanks though

[nocl]

2 hours ago, Nymich said:

Which ones?

the island closest to Bora Bora is similar with a high center peak surrounded by lagoons taha'a and Raiatea are both nearby. You also have Huahine. Go a bit further away and you have Rangiroa which is totally different being a very large atoll with no center peak.

 

Lots of beautiful islands. All of the ones I mentioned used to be on the Pacific Princess 10 day routes.

 

Lots of beautiful locations, just without the name recognition/bucket list factor of Bora Bora.

Edited September 27, 2021 by nocl

[Daniel A]

14 hours ago, Nymich said:

That was for nocl naming other fp islands as nice as bb.  Thanks though

Yes, I understood that.  I was just adding a lighthearted note to the discussion.  Nothing mean spirited intended.

[KarefreeKaren]

16 hours ago, nocl said:

the island closest to Bora Bora is similar with a high center peak surrounded by lagoons taha'a and Raiatea are both nearby. You also have Huahine. Go a bit further away and you have Rangiroa which is totally different being a very large atoll with no center peak.

 

Lots of beautiful islands. All of the ones I mentioned used to be on the Pacific Princess 10 day routes.

 

Lots of beautiful locations, just without the name recognition/bucket list factor of Bora Bora.

Would have to respectfully disagree. Been to all you mentioned and in my opinion nothing compares to the lagoons around Bora Bora. And, Patrick’s tour always the highlight of FP! 

[canadianbear]

42 minutes ago, KarefreeKaren said:

Would have to respectfully disagree. Been to all you mentioned and in my opinion nothing compares to the lagoons around Bora Bora. And, Patrick’s tour always the highlight of FP! 

We are booked on this tour next year (sure hope it happens).  When researching our cruise I found such fantastic reviews on his tour.   We love to snorkel so are also booked on other excursions but truly would be disappointed to not experience Patrick’s tour once.   The cruise involves a short 3 hour flight and is the only way we’d ever get to the SP as I won’t do very long flights.  

[kazu]

38 minutes ago, canadianbear said:

We are booked on this tour next year (sure hope it happens).  When researching our cruise I found such fantastic reviews on his tour.   We love to snorkel so are also booked on other excursions but truly would be disappointed to not experience Patrick’s tour once.   The cruise involves a short 3 hour flight and is the only way we’d ever get to the SP as I won’t do very long flights.  

 

Patrick’s tour is fabulous.  I would happily do it again 👍