Covid on Iona

[Megabear2]

5 minutes ago, Interestedcruisefan said:

So 35 positive case crew members refused to disembark?

 

Imagine the number of close contacts they would have amongst other staff who should need to quarantine alongside them? 

 

 

I understand the cruise lines always intended to quarantine staff on board where possible because of the logistics of getting them relocated once recovered.

 

Do we have any clue where the mystery 12 came from, though?

[Britboys]

48 minutes ago, Interestedcruisefan said:

So 35 positive case crew members refused to disembark?

 

Imagine the number of close contacts they would have amongst other staff who should need to quarantine alongside them? 

 

 

I very much doubt it was a case of the crew members refusing to disembark. I'm sure all lines have a protocol for dealing with infections amongst the crew.

[terrierjohn]

2 hours ago, Megabear2 said:

The newspaper clip posted by Interestedruisefan mentions 12 people offloaded in Madeira from an unnamed ship.  Ventura had two passengers taken off in Las Palmas as they were found to be unwell in Lanzarote (confirmed by someone on board at present).  This confirms Madeira is definitely receiving offloaded passengers from somewhere!

 

I'm intrigued by the offloading in the Caribbean comment.  The hospitals in some of the islands cannot cope with medical emergencies - as an example a man travelling on Azura with me had a heart attack literally as we sailed into Antigua and the hospital couldn't deal with it and transferred him to Martinique as the French islands have far better medical facilities apparently.

I'm intrigued by the offloading full stop, I cannot see why any port would want to accept covid positive passengers, unless they carry a bounty like foxes tails used to, possibly a kick back from the quarantine hotels?

[tring]

Regards crew.  On Sky Princess about a week ago the officer we spoke to (and I mentioned earlier), did say that two crew had tested positive on the previous one week cruise and had been off loaded, but that they were then going to be aloud to re join the ship as they had had the required time in quarantine (and I assume had recovered).  I do not know how long that was.

[Megabear2]

After speaking with P&O they have confirmed that offloading is at the discretion of each individual port.  Their terms and conditions do refer to this possibility as a result and they are within their rights to do this..  The discussions regarding a "buyer beware notice" are apparently ongoing.  My contact has written yesterday stating that she "really wanted to stress that this issue is being worked on which will hopefully negate the worry going forward". 

 

They have also confirmed they are now fully aware that insurance products will not in most cases cover offloading of negative tested passengers.  I am still pushing for an answer to how many people have actually been paid out under an insurance policy, but I doubt any reply is going to be forthcoming as GDPR has risen its ugly head.

 

On a personal individual basis I have now been offered various options for my own booked cruises including a free of charge cancellation and an extended payment date of my choice.  Interestingly an extended family group booking for April has been included in these options and this consists of five separate bookings. The offer of the latter appears to suggest this "solution" may be imminent.  

 

I am expecting a further call later this week.

[Harry Peterson]

42 minutes ago, Megabear2 said:

After speaking with P&O they have confirmed that offloading is at the discretion of each individual port.  Their terms and conditions do refer to this possibility as a result and they are within their rights to do this..  The discussions regarding a "buyer beware notice" are apparently ongoing.  My contact has written yesterday stating that she "really wanted to stress that this issue is being worked on which will hopefully negate the worry going forward". 

 

They have also confirmed they are now fully aware that insurance products will not in most cases cover offloading of negative tested passengers.  I am still pushing for an answer to how many people have actually been paid out under an insurance policy, but I doubt any reply is going to be forthcoming as GDPR has risen its ugly head.

 

On a personal individual basis I have now been offered various options for my own booked cruises including a free of charge cancellation and an extended payment date of my choice.  Interestingly an extended family group booking for April has been included in these options and this consists of five separate bookings. The offer of the latter appears to suggest this "solution" may be imminent.  

 

I am expecting a further call later this week.

GDPR?  For anonymised information?  I do weary of companies that trot this one out time after time to avoid answering a perfectly reasonable request. 

[molecrochip]

2 hours ago, Harry Peterson said:

GDPR?  For anonymised information?  I do weary of companies that trot this one out time after time to avoid answering a perfectly reasonable request. 

The request is perfectly reasonable but as the company is not subject to FOI laws, they are under no obligation to respond. Therefore companies hide behind GDPR instead of saying no. I sounds better to say "I'm not allowed" than it does to say "I don't want to".

[Cruisemeister2002]

3 hours ago, Megabear2 said:

After speaking with P&O they have confirmed that offloading is at the discretion of each individual port.  Their terms and conditions do refer to this possibility as a result and they are within their rights to do this..  The discussions regarding a "buyer beware notice" are apparently ongoing.  My contact has written yesterday stating that she "really wanted to stress that this issue is being worked on which will hopefully negate the worry going forward". 

 

They have also confirmed they are now fully aware that insurance products will not in most cases cover offloading of negative tested passengers.  I am still pushing for an answer to how many people have actually been paid out under an insurance policy, but I doubt any reply is going to be forthcoming as GDPR has risen its ugly head.

 

On a personal individual basis I have now been offered various options for my own booked cruises including a free of charge cancellation and an extended payment date of my choice.  Interestingly an extended family group booking for April has been included in these options and this consists of five separate bookings. The offer of the latter appears to suggest this "solution" may be imminent.  

 

I am expecting a further call later this week.

Spoke to my Insurance company yesterday (Staysure) they confirmed that if you contract Covid they cover isolation. I assume this means on the ship as they say if the cruise line or the local authorities of the port of call quarantine a passenger then that passenger isn't covered via their policy.

[Harry Peterson]

30 minutes ago, molecrochip said:

The request is perfectly reasonable but as the company is not subject to FOI laws, they are under no obligation to respond. Therefore companies hide behind GDPR instead of saying no. I sounds better to say "I'm not allowed" than it does to say "I don't want to".

As you say, FOI has no relevance because P&O isn’t a public authority, and there’s no requirement to provide the information requested.
 

However, if P&O don’t want to answer a perfectly reasonable request for anonymised information, they can’t use GDPR as an excuse, because it’s completely irrelevant. What’s the problem with providing the information?

[Megabear2]

38 minutes ago, Cruisemeister2002 said:

Spoke to my Insurance company yesterday (Staysure) they confirmed that if you contract Covid they cover isolation. I assume this means on the ship as they say if the cruise line or the local authorities of the port of call quarantine a passenger then that passenger isn't covered via their policy.

If you contract Covid, ie positive PCR test, you will be covered by your Staysure insurance whether ashore or onboard. It is covered under medical. However if your travelling companion is tested negative but removed alongside you they will not be covered under the policy, there is an outside chance of a case by case payout but all hinges on a medical professional stating your removal is essential.  

 

If you have the misfortune to be a close contact of someone who is positive but you are negative and removed then Staysure do not cover you - this could be both you and your travelling companion. The definition of the grey area of "close contact" is what is under discussion. It could be a dining companion, a person on a tour bus, someone in a bar etc. P&O do not have tracking in place onboard unlike some other cruise lines so it is really a very open situation.  

Edited November 9, 2021 by Megabear2
Missed words

[Interestedcruisefan]

1 hour ago, Megabear2 said:

If you contract Covid, ie positive PCR test, you will be covered by your Staysure insurance whether ashore or onboard. It is covered under medical. However if your travelling companion is tested negative but removed alongside you they will not be covered under the policy, there is an outside chance of a case by case payout but all hinges on a medical professional stating your removal is essential.  

 

If you have the misfortune to be a close contact of someone who is positive but you are negative and removed then Staysure do not cover you - this could be both you and your travelling companion. The definition of the grey area of "close contact" is what is under discussion. It could be a dining companion, a person on a tour bus, someone in a bar etc. P&O do not have tracking in place onboard unlike some other cruise lines so it is really a very open situation.  

P and O though would know which waiters served your tables in the booked restaurants, who you shared shore excursion transfers with, who cleaned your cabin, and if you shared tables in bookable restaurants etc

 

Theres a lot of close contacts they could track SHOULD they want to

 

I doubt they really want to tbh

 

Unless they have to

[terrierjohn]

1 hour ago, Megabear2 said:

If you contract Covid, ie positive PCR test, you will be covered by your Staysure insurance whether ashore or onboard. It is covered under medical. However if your travelling companion is tested negative but removed alongside you they will not be covered under the policy, there is an outside chance of a case by case payout but all hinges on a medical professional stating your removal is essential.  

 

If you have the misfortune to be a close contact of someone who is positive but you are negative and removed then Staysure do not cover you - this could be both you and your travelling companion. The definition of the grey area of "close contact" is what is under discussion. It could be a dining companion, a person on a tour bus, someone in a bar etc. P&O do not have tracking in place onboard unlike some other cruise lines so it is really a very open situation.  

I dont think that P&O or any other cruise line have said that close contacts testing negative would be offloaded. In fact they have specifically said that close contacts would be quarantined to their cabin, not necessarily the quarantine zone. If you ultimately test positive then things could change.

[Bill Y]

15 hours ago, Megabear2 said:

I understand the cruise lines always intended to quarantine staff on board where possible because of the logistics of getting them relocated once recovered.

 

Do we have any clue where the mystery 12 came from, though?

Reading Snow Hill's link to the Madeira Island News, although its dated 7th it refers to Ventura scheduled docking "Sunday tomorrow 8AM" So one assumes it was written on the 6th therefore yesterday was the 5th, Cruisemapper shows the schedule for the 5th as Queen Elizabeth, Eurodam and Artania.and nothing on the 6th. don't know how up to date this is, last minute docking etc.

[Dermotsgirl]

2 hours ago, terrierjohn said:

I dont think that P&O or any other cruise line have said that close contacts testing negative would be offloaded. In fact they have specifically said that close contacts would be quarantined to their cabin, not necessarily the quarantine zone. If you ultimately test positive then things could change.

Although Fred Olsen offloaded the dining table mates of someone who tested positive, as close contacts. This was discussed a few weeks ago on the forum. These people,  who were negative,  were kept in quarantine hotels in Funchal for about 10 days.

 

I think it has to be considered as a possibility  

[Megabear2]

I have had my promised telephone call from the CEO office. Natasha is an absolutely lovely young lady to speak with.  The position is that until I started asking questions after the first Iona covid case no one had thought about the scenario which occurred in Cadiz or the possibility that no insurance cover could be bought to cover quarantine off the ship.  She actually thanked me for my research and drawing their attention to the situation as it has helped stop a possible PR disaster for the companies.  Seems that I'm some sort of saviour to the cruise industry down in Carnival House ... Joking apart the issue is being taken extremely seriously now.  Following on from all my provided information being confirmed, the issue has been raised to the very highest level to be dealt with and as suspected a reply is imminent, the end of this week in all probability. They appear very anxious due to the start of the Caribbean season in particular, understandably when you look at the amount of longer cruises both lines are running to these destinations.

 

Natasha confirmed that some ports are insisting on the removal of negative passengers alongside positive ones. The ships have no control over these instances.  She also confirmed to me that to date there have been two such occasions.  Regarding the number of passengers involved they are, as we suspected as per the posts on social media, basically a small number in the scheme of things at this stage in the new international sailings. 

 

I asked if insurance had paid in these instances and she said no.  Apparently two sets of people had to pay their own initial costs but P&O are now helping. Whether this means the passengers are not out of pocket or not I cannot say, I assume not as the cruise line wishes to avoid bad press coverage at all costs.

 

Natasha confirmed to me that since the matter of offloading became common knowledge the customer relations department has been inundated to the extent they now have a 28 day backlog on top of the normal 28 days for replies. Those awaiting individual replies should therefore not hold their breath!  The lovely Emily is charged with sending holding emails which is why we all received them the other day.

 

I believe all will be clear by the end of this week and no doubt an updated protocol will follow on the website.  There seems to be a genuine desire to put passengers at ease and provide proper information and support.

 

Interestedcruisefan: I didn't get offered 10 free round the world cruises but they have been very generous to me!

[jeanlyon]

Well done indeed.  I am now even more pleased I have moved my April 22 cruise to April 23.  All this just puts me off and I would rather holiday at home or take our car to Europe.

[PEMCO007]

Fabulous! Thank you once again for bringing this to their attention, and good to see they are taking it seriously and things may be a little clearer going forward.  Hopefully by my cruise on 17th December, I may feel a little more content.

[Son of Anarchy]

53 minutes ago, Dermotsgirl said:

Although Fred Olsen offloaded the dining table mates of someone who tested positive, as close contacts. This was discussed a few weeks ago on the forum. These people,  who were negative,  were kept in quarantine hotels in Funchal for about 10 days.

 

I think it has to be considered as a possibility  

Freedom dining, no sharing and wait for a pager for us next month then.

[Dermotsgirl]

53 minutes ago, Son of Anarchy said:

Freedom dining, no sharing and wait for a pager for us next month then.

That would be what I would do..... although, to be fair, we did that before Covid! 

[Dermotsgirl]

1 hour ago, Megabear2 said:

I have had my promised telephone call from the CEO office. Natasha is an absolutely lovely young lady to speak with.  The position is that until I started asking questions after the first Iona covid case no one had thought about the scenario which occurred in Cadiz or the possibility that no insurance cover could be bought to cover quarantine off the ship.  She actually thanked me for my research and drawing their attention to the situation as it has helped stop a possible PR disaster for the companies.  Seems that I'm some sort of saviour to the cruise industry down in Carnival House ... Joking apart the issue is being taken extremely seriously now.  Following on from all my provided information being confirmed, the issue has been raised to the very highest level to be dealt with and as suspected a reply is imminent, the end of this week in all probability. They appear very anxious due to the start of the Caribbean season in particular, understandably when you look at the amount of longer cruises both lines are running to these destinations.

 

Natasha confirmed that some ports are insisting on the removal of negative passengers alongside positive ones. The ships have no control over these instances.  She also confirmed to me that to date there have been two such occasions.  Regarding the number of passengers involved they are, as we suspected as per the posts on social media, basically a small number in the scheme of things at this stage in the new international sailings. 

 

I asked if insurance had paid in these instances and she said no.  Apparently two sets of people had to pay their own initial costs but P&O are now helping. Whether this means the passengers are not out of pocket or not I cannot say, I assume not as the cruise line wishes to avoid bad press coverage at all costs.

 

Natasha confirmed to me that since the matter of offloading became common knowledge the customer relations department has been inundated to the extent they now have a 28 day backlog on top of the normal 28 days for replies. Those awaiting individual replies should therefore not hold their breath!  The lovely Emily is charged with sending holding emails which is why we all received them the other day.

 

I believe all will be clear by the end of this week and no doubt an updated protocol will follow on the website.  There seems to be a genuine desire to put passengers at ease and provide proper information and support.

 

Interestedcruisefan: I didn't get offered 10 free round the world cruises but they have been very generous to me!

Thank you Megabear, for all that you have done, very much appreciated.

 

 

[Snow Hill]

16 minutes ago, Dermotsgirl said:

That would be what I would do..... although, to be fair, we did that before Covid! 

We did it on our last 2 cruises and now it’s our preferred option, along with 2 of the specialist restaurants Sindhu & The Beach House. 

[emam]

Thank you Megabear2 for all you have done and your perseverance, it's helped us and I'm sure many others.

[tring]

10 hours ago, Harry Peterson said:

As you say, FOI has no relevance because P&O isn’t a public authority, and there’s no requirement to provide the information requested.
 

However, if P&O don’t want to answer a perfectly reasonable request for anonymised information, they can’t use GDPR as an excuse, because it’s completely irrelevant. What’s the problem with providing the information?

 

Quite true that P& O are not subject to foi, but port authorities in the UK are, so can use that for any UK ports, Including Southampton.

 

Exactly what needs to be reported to Southampton port authority on return is possibly of interest.  I wonder if the ships need to report recent cases on the ship and if they were offloaded at a foreign port prior to return to the UK........    Possibly not, but perhaps an interesting thought.

Edited November 9, 2021 by tring

[Snow Hill]

1 hour ago, tring said:

 

Quite true that P& O are not subject to foi, but port authorities in the UK are, so can use that for any UK ports, Including Southampton.

 

Exactly what needs to be reported to Southampton port authority on return is possibly of interest.  I wonder if the ships need to report recent cases on the ship and if they were offloaded at a foreign port prior to return to the UK........    Possibly not, but perhaps an interesting thought.

Most Port Authorities are not subject to FOI see page 17 section 2.28

 

https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/918508/ports-good-governance-guidance.pdf

[molecrochip]

8 hours ago, Megabear2 said:

I have had my promised telephone call from the CEO office. Natasha is an absolutely lovely young lady to speak with.  The position is that until I started asking questions after the first Iona covid case no one had thought about the scenario which occurred in Cadiz or the possibility that no insurance cover could be bought to cover quarantine off the ship.  She actually thanked me for my research and drawing their attention to the situation as it has helped stop a possible PR disaster for the companies.  Seems that I'm some sort of saviour to the cruise industry down in Carnival House ... Joking apart the issue is being taken extremely seriously now.  Following on from all my provided information being confirmed, the issue has been raised to the very highest level to be dealt with and as suspected a reply is imminent, the end of this week in all probability. They appear very anxious due to the start of the Caribbean season in particular, understandably when you look at the amount of longer cruises both lines are running to these destinations.

 

Natasha confirmed that some ports are insisting on the removal of negative passengers alongside positive ones. The ships have no control over these instances.  She also confirmed to me that to date there have been two such occasions.  Regarding the number of passengers involved they are, as we suspected as per the posts on social media, basically a small number in the scheme of things at this stage in the new international sailings. 

 

I asked if insurance had paid in these instances and she said no.  Apparently two sets of people had to pay their own initial costs but P&O are now helping. Whether this means the passengers are not out of pocket or not I cannot say, I assume not as the cruise line wishes to avoid bad press coverage at all costs.

 

Natasha confirmed to me that since the matter of offloading became common knowledge the customer relations department has been inundated to the extent they now have a 28 day backlog on top of the normal 28 days for replies. Those awaiting individual replies should therefore not hold their breath!  The lovely Emily is charged with sending holding emails which is why we all received them the other day.

 

I believe all will be clear by the end of this week and no doubt an updated protocol will follow on the website.  There seems to be a genuine desire to put passengers at ease and provide proper information and support.

 

Interestedcruisefan: I didn't get offered 10 free round the world cruises but they have been very generous to me!

Well done @Megabear2

 

As you state, considerable noise created internally, but not quite sure the real nub of no insurance coverage was realised quick enough. There was a genuine expectation that insurance would cover.

 

It’s been fed up higher that the existing policy is not very clear to passengers and this is causing concern. There was a rumour today that a Royal Caribbean style Covid-assistance pledge may be on the cards whereby the care team will take care of all costs/arrangements for medical treatments, any land based quarantine, and travel back home. They will then look to your insurance to reimburse the company as much as possible. Insurance will still be requirement of travel.

 

I believe those who had to deal with own costs were the first two Cadiz couples who were offloaded from Iona on the same day. They won’t be out if pocket by the end of the process.
 

Always opportunities to learn and do better.