Is Russia going to accept ships for 2022 Summer

[pghflyer]

YES @tring and @onthewebha ha - my favorite is MSC calling Warnemünde a Berlin port...that is around a 250km/ 165mi, 4+ hour train ride away.

 

Imagine if you booked an airline ticket to Washington DC but you are landing in Philadelphia!!

Edited February 23, 2022 by pghflyer

[twotravellersLondon]

6 hours ago, milolii said:

Are restrictions in place for the Norwegian fjords with regard to number, size and environmental concerns?

 On this particular point... my understanding is that...

 

On the 1 March 2018, the Norwegian Government passed new environmental requirements for emissions and discharges by cruise ships operating in the world heritage fjords the Nærøyfjord, Aurlandsfjord, Geirangerfjord, Sunnylvsfjord and Tafjord.

 

The idea was to reduce the emissions and discharges from cruise ships and other vessels by entering into law requirements have been drawn up by the Norwegian Maritime Authority (NMA) on behalf of the Norwegian Ministry of Climate and Environment.

 

The Law lays down new environmental requirements with the aim of reducing the emissions and discharges in these areas. NOx emission requirements and the regulation of the use of exhaust gas cleaning systems will gradually become stricter. In addition, a requirement for an environmental instruction for the individual ship and a prohibition against incineration of waste on board will be introduced. The sulphur emissions will have to comply with international requirements in all the world heritage fjords. 

 

The requirements will apply to ships irrespective of the year of construction

 

However, some older ships which are protected or given status as historical by the Norwegian Directorate for Cultural Heritage can apply for exemption from certain provisions.

 

The new requirements are being introduced gradually and were already beginning to have an effect in 2019.

 

Over the next few years, the requirements will gradually become stricter, and the emissions and discharges are expected to be further reduced.

 

The zero-emission regulations affecting Norway’s world heritage fjords first are intended to be fully in place by 2026.

 

Hope that helps... at least a bit.

[milolii]

Yes, very interesting, Ty . Although I knew there were some restrictions, I wasn’t sure of the current situation. 

Edited February 23, 2022 by milolii

[tring]

48 minutes ago, twotravellersLondon said:

 On this particular point... my understanding is that...

 

 

On the 1 March 2018, the Norwegian Government passed new environmental requirements for emissions and discharges by cruise ships operating in the world heritage fjords the Nærøyfjord, Aurlandsfjord, Geirangerfjord, Sunnylvsfjord and Tafjord.

 

The idea was to reduce the emissions and discharges from cruise ships and other vessels by entering into law requirements have been drawn up by the Norwegian Maritime Authority (NMA) on behalf of the Norwegian Ministry of Climate and Environment.

 

The Law lays down new environmental requirements with the aim of reducing the emissions and discharges in these areas. NOx emission requirements and the regulation of the use of exhaust gas cleaning systems will gradually become stricter. In addition, a requirement for an environmental instruction for the individual ship and a prohibition against incineration of waste on board will be introduced. The sulphur emissions will have to comply with international requirements in all the world heritage fjords. 

 

The requirements will apply to ships irrespective of the year of construction

 

However, some older ships which are protected or given status as historical by the Norwegian Directorate for Cultural Heritage can apply for exemption from certain provisions.

 

The new requirements are being introduced gradually and were already beginning to have an effect in 2019.

 

Over the next few years, the requirements will gradually become stricter, and the emissions and discharges are expected to be further reduced.

 

The zero-emission regulations affecting Norway’s world heritage fjords first are intended to be fully in place by 2026.

 

Hope that helps... at least a bit.

 

Do you know how this aligns with Fred's ships, along with potential ability to adapt them to new constraints?  I know when Fred Jnr first mentioned potential new builds (about 2016/7, or thereabouts IIRC), he was talking about LPG for obvious reasons.  With his big current concentration on Norway and Spitzbergen (as well as other sensitive areas), could make a big difference to him (and us), especially if the excluded areas are increased in area.  We had an environmental campaign ship hanging around when we were docked in Ny Alesund on Balmoral a number of years back (poss Rainbow Warrior) and Moffen Island had been axed from our itinerary, sadly.  We did make Magdalana Fjord though.

 

I have been aware for some years that there were increasing controls being brought in, but not the details - though I would not understand all of it anyway, though you seem to do,

 

Barbara

 

 

Edited February 23, 2022 by tring

[Gen X Life]

I would love if they would do more Baltic Cruises that EXCLUDED St PB.. Many people due to Job Restrictions Cannot go into Russia - even after they have left their employment - This includes being on the ship in Russian territorial waters.  

 

So you cannot take the cruise and say "well I'll just stay on the ship while in port" - that's still a no go with the US Government.

 

They will restrict all US Citizens and visa versa, sanctions are already being prepared.  As to whether you will be allowed on the ship - not going to happen if sanction are enforced unless they take SPB out....

 

Cruise lines with majority US/NATO passengers will take SPB out.

 

No visa.. NO GO for US citizens.

 

 

[tring]

3 minutes ago, Gen X Life said:

I would love if they would do more Baltic Cruises that EXCLUDED St PB.. Many people due to Job Restrictions Cannot go into Russia - even after they have left their employment - This includes being on the ship in Russian territorial waters.  

 

So you cannot take the cruise and say "well I'll just stay on the ship while in port" - that's still a no go with the US Government.

 

They will restrict all US Citizens and visa versa, sanctions are already being prepared.  As to whether you will be allowed on the ship - not going to happen if sanction are enforced unless they take SPB out....

 

Cruise lines with majority US/NATO passengers will take SPB out.

 

No visa.. NO GO for US citizens.

 

 

 

Some UK based ships do itineraries which include part of the Baltic, but do not go as far as SPB.  generally means they do not go to the other Eastern Baltic ports either (Tallin Helsinki and others).  Fred Olsen is one of those, but other cruises from the UK as well, but will sail from Southampton - try looking at Saga, or Ambassador which starts next year, which are possibilities, but I am not sure.  Other people may know of ships departing from in the Baltic which do not necessarily include SPB.  That does sound a bit of a bummer for you, though I suspect restrictions are also in place from Russia to the US as well.

 

This year may well be an advantage for you though if SPB disappears from itineraries, possibly for a long time.  Sad to think of potential the loss of many lives as a personal advantage though.  Search and you may find.

  

[ontheweb]

1 hour ago, tring said:

 

You are obviously referring to some US run cruise lines which seem to like making it sound as though some places are actually on the coast, or at least are very easily visited from quite distant ports, so they use some "strange" ways of listing ports from a British perspective, but I accept that is what they do, you just have to be aware of that though.  You will find (or may be well aware) that most of the ports used to access places you mention, such as Civitavechia, Livorno and Le Havre are probably a good two hour's journey away.   In the UK we would consider that sort of port listing to be very shady advertising, which is why I clarified the situation on Berlin.  Some people could be genuinely mis lead by that, though clearly not yourself.  I am in no way criticising you personally.  Oslo is somewhat out of the way from the route of most Baltic cruises and probably not the most popular of Norwegian ports, but I can see some may wish to visit Oslo, if only once.

 

As an addition to my previous post, I did not mention Tallin, as a possible replacement port which of course is very near SPB as I knew you had said it was on your itinerary.  It is quite a likely addition to other itineraries though as a possible replacement to SPB and it is a popular port.  I posted really to suggest some possibilities to people who seemed a little unclear on which ports were in a similar location and my clarification of Berlin, was just a small point I added to it. 

 

 

I do not understand your putting down of Oslo. We really enjoyed our time there. My DW who is an art teacher very much wanted to see the Munch Museum which BTW was not on any excursion. Also the Sculpture Garden in Oslo seems to be a very popular attraction to visit.

 

We were glad that it worked out that going the week with Oslo instead of miles and miles from Berlin allowed us to take the cruise that included the date of our 30th anniversary. We worry sorry to see that Oslo was not on most of the cruise itineraries we looked at, and as I said very glad it worked out that we got there.

[Gen X Life]

1 minute ago, tring said:

 

Some UK based ships do itineraries which include part of the Baltic, but do not go as far as SPB.  generally means they do not go to the other Eastern Baltic ports either (Tallin Helsinki and others).  Fred Olsen is one of those, but other cruises from the UK as well, but will sail from Southampton - try looking at Saga, or Ambassador which starts next year, which are possibilities, but I am not sure.  Other people may know of ships departing from in the Baltic which do not necessarily include SPB.  That does sound a bit of a bummer for you, though I suspect restrictions are also in place from Russia to the US as well.

 

This year may well be an advantage for you though if SPB disappears from itineraries, possibly for a long time.  Sad to think of potential the loss of many lives as a personal advantage though.  Search and you may find.

  

Thank you for the information of Saga... will check into.  

 

And please do not think I would be so selfish as to want to have a cruise itinerary over the safety of the Ukrainian People... they must be terrified..  I pray for their safety.

 

I also believe this will be very bad for Russia in the long term;  the world will not forget such barbaric behavior in modern times and they (the innocent Russian working man) will be made to pay for their egomaniac leader's despot brutality. 

[pghflyer]

@Gen X Life I believe you on the USG employees having employment restrictions on entering Russia, but all cruise ship passengers currently get a 72-hour visit visa-free as long as they take a cruise or other "authorized" tour.  I wouldn't be surprised if that was revoked for sanctioning country citizens, but it works today

 

http://www.saint-petersburg.com/russian-visa/for-cruise-ship-passengers/

[gnome12]

deleted; I missed the next page when I responded.

Edited February 23, 2022 by gnome12

[tring]

1 hour ago, ontheweb said:

I do not understand your putting down of Oslo. We really enjoyed our time there. My DW who is an art teacher very much wanted to see the Munch Museum which BTW was not on any excursion. Also the Sculpture Garden in Oslo seems to be a very popular attraction to visit.

 

We were glad that it worked out that going the week with Oslo instead of miles and miles from Berlin allowed us to take the cruise that included the date of our 30th anniversary. We worry sorry to see that Oslo was not on most of the cruise itineraries we looked at, and as I said very glad it worked out that we got there.

 

Glad you enjoyed your visit, I do accept each port has different attractions for different people, I really am not out to criticise you, though I can certainly see that Oslo would be preferred to a long journey to Berlin.  I feel there were likely what I, personally,  would consider better options from a north German port in the Baltic sea, but again each to their own (I mean it is personal choice).  We are not art enthusiasts, though have visited many art galleries in other Norweigian ports which we have enjoyed for a relatively short visit.  We have been to Oslo a couple of times and feel we have explored as much of the city we want to and it has been pretty cold there on one visit in December, which likely coloured our view as well - it was very bleak in the winter winds.  Our other visit was in May and I think we, basically, have done what we want there without travelling further, which we have no particular interest in,  yet some Norwegian ports are in very scenic areas (the fjords etc. which I would suggest, perhaps more people would have an interest to return to so they can just take in the scenery, perhaps in different seasons).  Likewise some (more quaint) Baltic ports are quite attractive cities/towns which are pleasant to return to and just stroll around the city/town itself.  Entirely a personal choice and I certainly stand corrected in respect to your preferences. 

 

Edited February 23, 2022 by tring

[tring]

1 hour ago, Gen X Life said:

Thank you for the information of Saga... will check into.  

 

And please do not think I would be so selfish as to want to have a cruise itinerary over the safety of the Ukrainian People... they must be terrified..  I pray for their safety.

 

I also believe this will be very bad for Russia in the long term;  the world will not forget such barbaric behavior in modern times and they (the innocent Russian working man) will be made to pay for their egomaniac leader's despot brutality. 

 

Fred Olsen is also worth looking at as they do a lot of, albeit shorter Baltic cruises which may be of interest, but not longer ones which is likely the best for you if coming from the US.  We are actually  booked on a P&O 16 night cruise to the Baltic, leaving late May this year which visits a lot of ports.  It is a Carnival Corporation line, so with US links I am sure they will pull SPB relatively quickly, though what will really matter from the UK is what our FCDO advise regards traveling to Russia.  Unlike your "advice" from the CDC, our FCDO advice against travel means our travel insurance is invalidated, so we would have no medical cover and all cruise lines and holiday companies will be obliged to cancel their holiday offerings.

 

I am sure neither you, nor anyone else would want to see a war happen, though it perhaps would be worth realising that indeed there are a number of ethnic Russians in parts of Ukraine, particularly Crimea and the Eastern areas Putin is starting with.  It does seem though,  that his ambitions may well go beyond that, which is scary for all of us here in Europe - where will it all end?  It will take time to progress though, so I do not have any worries about this year in non Russian Baltic countries.  Our son had a school exchange with a boy from Odessa in the USSR days and the boy's family were quite clearly Russian leaning and considered themselves Russian.  The school exchange was because our son was learning Russian at school and the exchange partners were from a specialist English school in Odessa.  In those days we, as politically aware parents, did feel that there would have been some sort of screening of the Ukrainian families taking part in the exchange.  Our boys had to fly to Moscow and take a 24 hour train journey south to Odessa as well, since they were not allowed to fly to a nearer airport (e.g. in Romania) and cross an international border by road.  We did a river cruise from SPB to Moscow, with hotel stays at both ends, a few years back and really enjoyed our time there, finding the Russian people most hospitable and helpful when we were going around those cities independently, rather than with a tour group.  From a comment I heard yesterday, there does seem some thought as to whether the Russian people will support a leader continuing into other areas of Ukraine - we can only hope that will be the case, but in some respects, it also needs to be dealt with extremely carefully by western leaders as any perceived aggression would always lead to a counter effect as I am sure you will agree.  Also news systems do put out quite different stories in different countries of course. As you say, we can only pray for peace for everyone,

 

Barbara   

[jrmende63]

18 hours ago, CatLadyFemme said:

We are scheduled on Voyager of the Seas May 22nd (also hitting Sweden, Finland, and Estonia). I wonder if they’ll switch to a different port (and which one!), or just cancel the SPB day.

We are scheduled for the May 1, 2022 Voyager of the Seas. If I get any info I will post it here.

 

[BoundForSea]

Hello Folks. I’ve been a pilot internationally since 1992. I would highly recommend you rethink a cruise with a Russian stop at this point.  I canceled my 2023. Tonight, Feb 23 the world has changed. I say that with the best of intentions and care for our fellow members. 

 

[tring]

7 hours ago, jrmende63 said:

We are scheduled for the May 1, 2022 Voyager of the Seas. If I get any info I will post it here.

 

 

Thank you, that is appreciated.  With the news this morning, there is absolutely no chance that SPB will be a port on any cruise this summer IMO, and I suspect, the opinion of everyone else as well.  In fact, I think all cruises for this summer will be pulled at once now and so they should be. The next few days may well clarify it all though official confirmation of replacement ports will take some time to arrange and the Eastern Baltic cruise ports may not be able to accommodate all ships currently booked for SPB.  Hence the notifications from our cruise lines may take a while to come through.  We have been in that situation before as ports were obviously going to be pulled, since there was advice against travel to them and the wait to hear from the cruise line was very frustrating, but the notification did come we will all need to be patient.

 

Although 2023 cruises may stay on the itineraries, they will not be going ahead unless there is a very big change, so it would seem to me better to leave a cruise as a booking if a financial loss for the customer would take place if it is cancelled.

 

The Baltic is well away from Ukrainia and the Russian forces have not been building up by the borders of Baltic countries, so we have no fear whatsoever to visit the other Baltic countries and are very much looking forward to our cruise, which sails on 24th May.

 

Such a sad day,

 

Barbara

 

[Lonedaddy]

2 hours ago, tring said:

The Baltic is well away from Ukrainia and the Russian forces have not been building up by the borders of Baltic countries, so we have no fear whatsoever to visit the other Baltic countries and are very much looking forward to our cruise, which sails on 24th May.

That's what they said mar 15th 1939.

[Sailaway1706]

On 11/9/2021 at 12:24 AM, sjhanksaz said:

Has anyone heard if they are going to accept ships next year with all that is going on with Covid???

 

 

Now the question is will we want to go to Russia any longer?

[flahagan]

I'm on the April 9 Enchanted Princess transatlantic sailing to Copenhagen and then to the Baltic ports.  Of course there will be no St. Petersburg but all I've heard from Princess so far is crickets.  I'm hoping the entire cruise won't be canceled.  I'm anxiously awaiting an email notification.

[tring]

Just had this notification from our Cruise Line (P&O), which is a Carnival Corp brand.  They are obviously being hassled with lots of phone calls today:-

 

"We understand that the current evolving situation with Ukraine may raise some questions about your upcoming holiday.

We are monitoring this very closely and please be assured we will amend itineraries as necessary as the safety and wellbeing of guests and crew is of the highest priority.

Please do bear with us and visit our social media channels and website for the latest information, rather than contacting our Customer Contact Centre.

The P&O Cruises team"

 

[twotravellersLondon]

4 hours ago, tring said:

The Baltic is well away from Ukrainia and the Russian forces have not been building up by the borders of Baltic countries, so we have no fear whatsoever to visit the other Baltic countries and are very much looking forward to our cruise, which sails on 24th May.

 

Sadly the world has changed and... changed very quickly.

 

There does seem to be an increased Russian Military presence in the Baltic.

 

Just a few months ago Russia was adding more firepower to its Baltic exclave of Kaliningrad to bolster both its defensive and offensive potential by adding more tanks and so on.

 

In May 2021, the Russian defence, Minister Sergei Shoigu, said the Russian military would form 20 new units in the country’s west. “In total, the offensive potential of the Russian Army’s Land Forces in the western strategic direction was increased by over 50%. 

Six Russian Amphibious Warfare ships left their naval base in Kaliningrad, a Russian enclave wedged between Poland and Lithuania, and entered the Baltic Sea in mid-January... the number of ships was unusually high and the Russian Navy has been practicing naval and air war-games the Baltic Sea.

 

Sweden had no option except to send trips to potentially  "defend" the island of Gotland.

Massive Russian war-games just a few months ago demonstrated Russia had the ability to dive a military corridor through Lithuania to the Kaliningrad... from where it would dominate the Baltic... and intimidate Scandinavia and all sorts of other places.

This is not a game... but what's happening in Russian is likely to have been planned and prepared for months and years and will be executed like a chess game by a Grand Master.

 

The question may soon be... does any cruise-line want to put it's ships and passengers in a potential war zone?
 

[twotravellersLondon]

19 hours ago, tring said:

Do you know how this aligns with Fred's ships, along with potential ability to adapt them to new constraints?  I know when Fred Jnr first mentioned potential new builds (about 2016/7, or thereabouts IIRC),

 

A bit off the topic but that's a very good question... sorry that the answer will be a tad long. I posted ages ago... but it seems to have vanished!

 

Put simply, I don't think that FOCLs ships will meet these new Norwegian requirements and, in the wider context, there will be a potential problem meeting the new CII requirements.

 

The International Maritime Organisation has set a target of reducing annual greenhouse gas emissions in shipping by at least 40% by 2030 and... a 70% reduction by 2050.

 

There are going to be new rules... the Energy Efficiency Existing Ship Index (EEXI) and the Carbon Intensity Indicator (CII). These are due to come into force on 1 January 2023.

 

The CII, an operational measure of how efficiently a ship transports goods or passengers, is a framework for determining the efficiency of new-builds and is a one-off assessment.

 

EEXI is an annual assessment. The highest grade is A and the lowest is E. Any ship getting an E grade has to immediately do something about it... and any ship getting a D in three consecutive years is in the same position... in both cases they are likely to be denied access to many ports and territorial waters.

 

Both EEXI and CII are complex and evolving and the final details are still pretty woolly.

 

The old Rotterdam and Amsterdam are now very old technology... almost as old as the Braemar. They weren't refitted... only "refreshed." The vessels can be nudged toward a higher level of compliance by improved voyage planning, reduced speed, using alternative fuels (a very big ask), on-board energy savings, regular dry docking to clean the hull (expensive), new more efficient propellers and by even fitting speed limiters. But they can't ever expect to compete with new-builds.

 

But if the annual inspecting authorities take into account occupancy rates, FOCLs may have a serious problem. The CO2 footprint and the power consumption of his ships is about the same whether they're full of half empty. So if the calculations are based on average passenger numbers... there could be potential problems with certification.

 

But look at the Borealis and Bolette, Holland America's old Rotterdam, and Amsterdam, in the wider context. They both have been replaced by the new ships characterised by an eco-friendly and resource-saving designs. There's evidence that FOCLs' balcony and suite passengers have been migrating to SAGA. It is now offering new ships with technology aimed at optimising energy efficiency and minimising environmental impact while enabling them to comply to the most demanding current safety regulations. There's also evidence of competition for the budget end of the market from the new Ambassador line, which is building new ships with emission reduction technologies to help reduce nitrogen oxide emissions by 95% compared to current standards.

 

In about 2017, FOCLs' dream was for two new ships… the MV Bonheur to be launched in the summer of 2019 and the MV Bonny which was to be launched in the summer of 2020. Some of the staff on board the Braemar even had contracts specifying that they would be expected to work on the MV Bonheur. These ships were even listed on Wikipedia and mentioned (not always by name) in several cruise blogs at the time. (gone now)

 

At the end of 2019 and with only three weeks to go, FOCLs, like many other companies, was scrambling to get the Braemar, the Black Watch and the Balmoral up to the compliance level of the International Maritime Organisation 2020 regulations on pollution… and to avoid them being banned in certain water, excluded for certain ports or impounded if they broke the regulations! 

 

So as I say... I worry that there will be a potential problem for many older ships meeting the new requirements.

[richard_london]

I'm just emailing the cruise companies I am booked with saying querying their policy calling at Russian ports.

 

As an individual I feel there is little I can do to help, I can support charities helping the people of Ukraine but the biggest thing I can do is to not do business with companies that put money into the Russian economy.  Most cruise companies operating in the Baltic call at St Petersburg, including overnighters, and that is foreign money directly into the Russian economy in terms of port fees, excursion fees and passengers spending money ashore. 

 

So I have said in my email that if they continue to call at Russian ports then morally I can't do business with them and will cancel my cruises before the balance is due.  It would mean sacrificing my deposits, but I need to make a stand in my own way and this is one way I can.

[ontheweb]

On the Norwegian Cruise line board there is a poster (post #6) who says his cruise has cancelled St. Petersburg. But there is another post (different NCL ship) that has excursions in St. Petersburg, but not the stop cancelled (post #7).

 

The url for the thread is:

 

Baltic Cruises - Norwegian Cruise Line - Cruise Critic Community

 

[Ombud]

3 hours ago, Lonedaddy said:

That's what they said mar 15th 1939.

Exactly. Same philosophy re: sovereignty can be applied to Lithuania, Latvia, and Estonia 

[Tin can]

6 hours ago, tring said:

 

 

The Baltic is well away from Ukrainia and the Russian forces have not been building up by the borders of Baltic countries, so we have no fear whatsoever to visit the other Baltic countries and are very much looking forward to our cruise, which sails on 24th May.

 

 

 

 

We flew back from Latvia yesterday from a land holiday and I wouldn't have any hesitation in going back tomorrow with my family.