Quarantine - APEX TA & British Isles Cruises

[whirlybird3]

My husband and I are currently recovering from COVID.  A few things that I have learned:

1. First symptoms start around day 5/6 after exposure.

2. It takes three days to test positive on a antigen test after the first symptom 

3. COVID is contagious three days prior to testing positive 

 

I currently work in two different hospitals and have care for positive patients since the beginning.  I have always been concerned about catching it and taking it home to my husband who is retired.  In the end, my husband caught it and gave it to me. Ha!  We are thinking he caught it at a restaurant.  (This restaurant requires to all to show their COVID Vax card to enter) 

 

This virus is very contagious.  And, PPE (N95 or K95) works. 🙂  Apparently, at my workplace, two more people at work are out with COVID because they caught it from their spouse too. 

Edited May 20, 2022 by whirlybird3

[Ride-The-Waves]

8 hours ago, Bo1953 said:

Methinks you have not taken into consideration that those whom you "... have also seen.." are from here on CC represent a very small group of those either who are on the ship and/or are in quarantine.

 

Many of us are vocal at that.

 

Now, were you to state that you are in touch with XX% number of those who are in quarantine (i.e. 15% at minimum) for me, your observations and statement would be very compelling along with how those who are being treated 'badly' and/or are not being checked on by X while in quarantine. Do you think, statistically, 15% is a good starting point to extrapolate what is really going on aboard for those who have contracted C-19 or not? Please confirm that you are or are not in touch with that number of non-CC posters, then we have a basis to further think about what X is really doing or not and can comment accordingly.

 

In health and bon voyage

Agree.  On an Azamara cruise several years ago the CD provided exact numbers: 67 CC members out of 499 passengers for an account of just over 13 percent.  And that was on a heavily subscribed thread for an India-to-Europe passage.  The "average" cruise thread is somewhere below 10 percent, if that high.

 

Earlier post attempted to correlate COVID measures today with data from the earliest days in February 2020.  Non sequitur.  Two years ago the medical community did not understand COVID-19, its virulence, its variants, and its threat to humans.  Today the general guidance, for those of us vaccinated and boosted, is to try to live with following careful protocols.  Challenge, of course, is to understand and fully follow those protocols.  Based on comments here on CC following protocols on board has been lax, at best.  The TA we were on in March had maybe 10 percent of people masking inside, even in close quarters like the theater.  Six days later those testing for return to the US were running around 20 percent positive (94 out of around 500 tested).  Scary numbers.

 

We do need to remember that about 90 percent of cruisers have no idea of CC and of course do not post or comment.  "Woe is me" posting is unhelpful, but is human nature as many want others to sympathize.  

 

If we want to continue "cruising" we, and the industry, must do better with enforcing protocols developed by the medical community.  None of this "its fake news" stuff.  Keep ourselves and others around us safe.  I am somewhat disappointed that cruise lines/ships are not enforcing protocols as fully as possible.  On that TA I mentioned, masking was optional.  That was until the positive tests then masking became required.  Too late.  We are schedule for a cruise starting and ending in Italy in late June.  We will mask and social distance, and avoid crowds.  😷

[Ommadawn]

9 hours ago, Bo1953 said:

Methinks you have not taken into consideration that those whom you "... have also seen.." are from here on CC represent a very small group of those either who are on the ship and/or are in quarantine.

 

Many of us are vocal at that.

 

Now, were you to state that you are in touch with XX% number of those who are in quarantine (i.e. 15% at minimum) for me, your observations and statement would be very compelling along with how those who are being treated 'badly' and/or are not being checked on by X while in quarantine. Do you think, statistically, 15% is a good starting point to extrapolate what is really going on aboard for those who have contracted C-19 or not? Please confirm that you are or are not in touch with that number of non-CC posters, then we have a basis to further think about what X is really doing or not and can comment accordingly.

 

In health and bon voyage

 

Nice dodge, but that is such a straw man argument. Since there is no way that anybody on these boards is in touch with 15% of the sick people on any of these cruises, your definition of qualified to report is unachievable. Thus, all that we have to go on is the anecdotal evidence of first hand experiences which have been reported on these boards. Has anybody posting here received great service? Anybody? If it wasn't a problem, then you figure that we would have had at least a few people reporting on how good their Covid medical treatment was on board. Just because you put up a straw man argument does not mean that the problem does not exist. Based on what evidence we do have, it indeed looks like a problem.

[Bo1953]

1 hour ago, Ommadawn said:

 

Nice dodge, but that is such a straw man argument. Since there is no way that anybody on these boards is in touch with 15% of the sick people on any of these cruises, your definition of qualified to report is unachievable. Thus, all that we have to go on is the anecdotal evidence of first hand experiences which have been reported on these boards. Has anybody posting here received great service? Anybody? If it wasn't a problem, then you figure that we would have had at least a few people reporting on how good their Covid medical treatment was on board. Just because you put up a straw man argument does not mean that the problem does not exist. Based on what evidence we do have, it indeed looks like a problem.

Of course based on the evidence by the number of posters here on CC, you are quite correct, yet again, with such a small 'sub-set' of 'statistical data' to use as evidence that everything onboard is bad and intolerable is way outside of the probability of guessing that it really is.

 

There were/are a few posters here on CC who have reported good treatment while in quarantine aboard several X ships, shall we dismiss those as anecdotal or accept only the upset mistreated as the 'in fact' treatment of all who enter quarantine is bad and no contact is only made with the medical team when they drop by to take ones temperature?

 

If that is in fact your and others posit, I accept it from you and still presume that the information which is presented is not correct until one can present, even remotely, convincing data to support the thesis.

 

Most of us who have been on CC for some time understand that the greatest percentage of passengers on any X sailing does not even approximate a representative number of people who post on CC. Roll calls and CC Parties bear this out to a great degree.

 

OR on your next sailing you can take an informal survey of fellow passengers to determine if they know of CC and/or have ever posted here. Just do a sampling and that will be good.

 

I Am very willing to understand and accept any supporting info to the contrary anyone will or can present. If not, well....

 

At this juncture, is it really worth it for anyone's particular point? Most likely not as we need to concentrate on keeping safe if we choose to sail, enjoying the sailing, have great times in whatever ports we visit, and help keep the staff and crew safe.

 

In health and bon voyage

[cruiseboy89130]

23 hours ago, Ex-Airbalancer said:

The crazy part of taking the of the passports on the Apex TA was the fack up getting them back 

they was no reason why we should have got them back as we got off the ship  , the immigration officer we talk with blame Celebrity for the fack up 

Would never give them my passport you see what happens....  I'm sure they can't make you give it to them it is just a convenience for them to have them available...

[Ex-Airbalancer]

33 minutes ago, cruiseboy89130 said:

Would never give them my passport you see what happens....  I'm sure they can't make you give it to them it is just a convenience for them to have them available...

Where have you cruised ? 

[cruiseboy89130]

25 minutes ago, Ex-Airbalancer said:

Where have you cruised ? 

All over the place.... I did about 20 TA's sometimes there was immigration on a sea day in the dining room but never had to give them my passport! And never would....

[Mike07]

On 5/18/2022 at 5:30 AM, Mark_T said:

If I was US based I'd certainly be thinking twice about a European cruise right now as the US return testing rules represent a significant risk.

 

 

Yup. I cancelled my European cruise based upon all of these threads on CC.

 

[Mike07]

3 hours ago, cruiseboy89130 said:

All over the place.... I did about 20 TA's sometimes there was immigration on a sea day in the dining room but never had to give them my passport! And never would....

 

 

I would not either.  I think ships generally take the crews passports as those things can get lost over the course of a contract.

[drarill]

16 hours ago, Ride-The-Waves said:

Agree.  On an Azamara cruise several years ago the CD provided exact numbers: 67 CC members out of 499 passengers for an account of just over 13 percent.  And that was on a heavily subscribed thread for an India-to-Europe passage.  The "average" cruise thread is somewhere below 10 percent, if that high.

 

Earlier post attempted to correlate COVID measures today with data from the earliest days in February 2020.  Non sequitur.  Two years ago the medical community did not understand COVID-19, its virulence, its variants, and its threat to humans.  Today the general guidance, for those of us vaccinated and boosted, is to try to live with following careful protocols.  Challenge, of course, is to understand and fully follow those protocols.  Based on comments here on CC following protocols on board has been lax, at best.  The TA we were on in March had maybe 10 percent of people masking inside, even in close quarters like the theater.  Six days later those testing for return to the US were running around 20 percent positive (94 out of around 500 tested).  Scary numbers.

 

We do need to remember that about 90 percent of cruisers have no idea of CC and of course do not post or comment.  "Woe is me" posting is unhelpful, but is human nature as many want others to sympathize.  

 

If we want to continue "cruising" we, and the industry, must do better with enforcing protocols developed by the medical community.  None of this "its fake news" stuff.  Keep ourselves and others around us safe.  I am somewhat disappointed that cruise lines/ships are not enforcing protocols as fully as possible.  On that TA I mentioned, masking was optional.  That was until the positive tests then masking became required.  Too late.  We are schedule for a cruise starting and ending in Italy in late June.  We will mask and social distance, and avoid crowds.  😷

I agree with you, we have to follow the science and Celebrity is doing the opposite.

Right now we know that vaccines/boosters won't protect us for a long time against the variants. If half the passengers had their last shot six months ago, it is not safe to be with them, without masks indoors. Asking for a negative test taken two days before embarkation, doesn't work.  Last year we were on the Apex first cruise, and we were tested in the pier.  I believe in testing, lots of testing, to identify the positives early on.  A friend of mine just returned from a Viking river cruise and they had to provide a saliva sample every day.  I don't know, who is doing  Celebrity's number but I wouldn't be surprise me if daily or every other day testing, will be less expensive than having passengers in quarantine and doing back to back cruises, until they get better. 

Wishing you a great and safe cruise in June.  Our next one starts in Amsterdam and ends in Italy, though we will fly to Spain on debarkation day and flew home two days later.  If we test positive I prefer to be in Spain. 😉

 

[catweazlecat]

On 5/15/2022 at 8:10 PM, suzyluvs2cruise said:

I tested positive on Apex on May 12...my husband was negative. At that point the Capt had announced positives were at 3% and everyone was to mask except while eating or drinking.

My symptoms were that of a head cold/sinus pressure. We were to fly home on May 14 and would need negative Covid results so I self-tested and when the result was positive I called medical. They came to our SS and tested both of us. I was positive and DH negative. We stayed in our cabin and Celebrity gave us our options the next day....We could stay onboard for the next cruise....12 nt British Isles...or quarantine for 10 days in an Amsterdam hotel with $$ toward hotel cost and nothing for food. We opted to stay onboard...

 

 

Sorry to hear about your Covid result and quarantine! Hope you are not having heavy symptoms and recover quickly!

Would you please let me know why you had to be tested on board in the first place? I thought a test prior departure is good enough to board the ship.
We will be board the Apex in Amsterdam next month and had been informed that a test 2 days before departure would be fine and no separate testing is necessary since we are vaccinated 3times already.

Best regards from Germany
Silke

 

 

 

 

 
 

 

 

 

 

 
 

 

 

 

 

 
 

 

 

[Tony UK]

 Some interesting points on this thread, and other similar ones.

I know many are still living the grim history of Covid when we knew little or nothing. Great strides have been taken by now. I'd like to make a few points on various aspects referred to.

Vaccination is going a long way to prevent hospitalisation and death unless immuno compromised. It does NOT prevent you catching covid.

No testing, pre flight, pre cruise  will prevent it getting on board, unless it is daily testing and isolation for a significant number of days pre cruise which most people wouldnt tolerate.

Mask wearing The main times masks arent work is for eating drinking and outdoors...thats a lot of the time for most cruisers. The main risk is for 30 minutes or more in an indoor space with other people in close proximity.

Balconies are an outdoor space so unless you speak to your neighbour for extended peiods of time close proximity face to face there is virtually no risk.

Ports in Europe are mainly open. There was uproar when people couldnt get off the ship or could only go on ship excursions. Now passengers and crew can go off independantly, but that carries risks too.

Risk tolerance., many dont want to take any risk at all, and so need to accept that cant be the case on a cruise ship. Others want to minimise their risk by personal actions to reduce those risks, and that is laudable however cant provide the high level protection they desire due to travelling with others. Many accept the risk they are facing and try not to compromise the health of others.

 

IMHO routine testing is not a realistic way to eliminate covid at embarkation and needs to be discontinued. There should be a requirement to notify any symptoms as with Norovirus, and crew Isolation should be limited to the infectious symtomatic phase in the booked stateroom with adjacent passengers being able to move to available cabins if they choose to do so.

The sooner the cruiselines move to a more sustainable capacity the better for all of us in the long run. If that means marketing to a younger and more risk accepting demographic then thats what will need to be done.

 

 

[suzyluvs2cruise]

33 minutes ago, catweazlecat said:

Would you please let me know why you had to be tested on board in the first place? I thought a test prior departure is good enough to board the ship.
We will be board the Apex in Amsterdam next month and had been informed that a test 2 days before departure would be fine and no separate testing is necessary since we are vaccinated 3times already.

Best regards from Germany
Silke

I self-tested on the next to last day of the cruise because I had symptoms of a head cold and needed to test negative to fly home to the US 2 days later. The self-test gave a positive result so I called medical and was tested again...

With another positive result. Fortunately I have only had the symptoms of a head cold and nothing serious. 

 

Edited May 21, 2022 by suzyluvs2cruise

[latserrof]

46 minutes ago, Tony UK said:

 The main risk is for 30 minutes or more ...

 

 

 

??? Can you cite a source for this notion?

[Tony UK]

1 minute ago, latserrof said:

??? Can you cite a source for this notion?

I dont do citations... is that an American thing? Neither an I a scientist although there arent many of them who can give definative covid answers. I do realise that many want a specific safety rule to follow but sadly there is no such thing!

 Actually it was 2 metres for 15 minutes iindoors in a ventilated space. initially in the Uk but that has been withdrawn now as we dont do contact tracing anymore as Omicron is a lot milder..Curently We only have general rules now about being grown up, looking after our own health and some general guidelines about how to behave if we have symptoms. All has changes since the start of all this. Many of these things are historic rather than current. Of course all could change again in the future.

 

The 30 minutes came from information that I was told on these boards that Cruiselines used a 30 minute rule for when they used to do their close contact tracing. not sure they do that now, but it was for indoors not outdoors like a balcony!

Hope that helps? I'm 

[Tony UK]

26 minutes ago, latserrof said:

??? Can you cite a source for this notion?

actually I think even CDC who seem to be the most cautious use 15 minutes indoors at 6 feet apart. I think that would not be achievable on cruiseships currently...it would be like playing dodgeball in theatres, bars, restaurants or any of the entertainment spaces. You would be constantly on the move when people took a seat near to you!

 

[Jim_Iain]

On 5/20/2022 at 12:54 AM, cruiseboy89130 said:

So what happens when I refuse to give the cruise line  my passport?

It is the property of my country they have no right to confiscate or hold it!

 

You will probably be denied boarding.    What would happen if you refused to give your passport to the Immigration Officer on entering the U.S?   When there is a problem they hold onto it and put you in a detention area and then give it back once issue is cleared up.

 

Equally what happens if you get stopped by a police officer and he asks for your driver drivers license.     He then takes it with him while he process your ticket and then returns it to you.

 

On the Asia cruises I took they took your passport at checkin and gave you a receipt for it.   At most ports they are inspected by the Immigration Authority in bulk and stamped. 

 

They do have a right and they will exercise it.     As for taking it from you in Amsterdam.  It was collected by the Dutch Immigration authorities.  Celebrity just acted as a conduit 

[latserrof]

50 minutes ago, Tony UK said:

The 30 minutes came from information that I was told on these boards that Cruiselines used a 30 minute rule for when they used to do their close contact tracing.

Thanks. As I suspected. Exposure risk and contact tracing are two very different things, and it is dangerous to confuse the two.

 

I don't know if citations are "an American thing."  I also don't know whether "information that I was told on these boards" is a particularly reliable source, as you have demonstrated.

Edited May 21, 2022 by latserrof

[Ex-Airbalancer]

31 minutes ago, Jim_Iain said:

 

You will probably be denied boarding.    What would happen if you refused to give your passport to the Immigration Officer on entering the U.S?   When there is a problem they hold onto it and put you in a detention area and then give it back once issue is cleared up.

 

Equally what happens if you get stopped by a police officer and he asks for your driver drivers license.     He then takes it with him while he process your ticket and then returns it to you.

 

On the Asia cruises I took they took your passport at checkin and gave you a receipt for it.   At most ports they are inspected by the Immigration Authority in bulk and stamped. 

 

They do have a right and they will exercise it.     As for taking it from you in Amsterdam.  It was collected by the Dutch Immigration authorities.  Celebrity just acted as a conduit 

A very bad conduit , they should been returned to us at the cruise terminal! 
mine never had to be turned to the Dutch immigration but Celebrity did 

[Tony UK]

48 minutes ago, latserrof said:

Thanks. As I suspected. Exposure risk and contact tracing are two very different things, and it is dangerous to confuse the two.

 

I don't know if citations are "an American thing."  I also don't know whether "information that I was told on these boards" is a particularly reliable source, as you have demonstrated.

Actually it was RCL on return to sailing who quoted 15 minutes for contact tracing. Celebrity said close contact for an extended period (unspecified). I'm not sure it is still being done. Certainly from personal experience last month it wasn't happening.

Anyway the point really is the industry cant recover if their arrangements are designed to suit the most cautious. Current USA flying rules and cruiselines pre sail testing are putting people off travelling out of the USA. Ships are sailing at low capacity. Europeans can travel throughout Europe to hotels and resorts with no testing other than if unvaaccinated. That option is likely to be more risky than a cruise ship actually but easier in terms of pre vacation stress

A more middle ground approach is needed to get the industry we love back on its feet again.

[milkman55]

We were on the Apex April 30 TA and saw people dropping like flies with Covid.  I think they announced 61 at one time, but I am sure it was much higher.  Never saw anyone with a deck 6 room key so that was the “Covid” deck.

 

Celebrity had the Infinity anchored off of Ft Lauderdale and dropping off Covid crew on their way into port.  We heard they dropped off about 60 crew from the Apex heading into port before the April 30 TA.  It’s hilarious that Infinity shows as “Green” status on the CDC dashboard when it is the hospital ship and not in service.  ALL Celebrity and RCL ships are now Orange (3%+ Covid) on the CDC list.

 

We were not rolling the dice on a Covid test and had no symptoms, so we didn’t test at all, flew to Toronto on Air Canada, drove across the border at Buffalo and flew home.  Canada has no pre-flight testing if you are fully vaccinated, but interestingly they require a mask on all flights and in the airports.

 

The other benefit is the Air Canada flight was barely 1/2 full and $1,000 cheaper than our AA flight for the two of us.  We had nobody else in our aisle of the plane.

 

We will not be taking anymore overseas cruises until the US lifts the pre-flight testing for fully vaccinated.  The sooner we realize Covid is another viral illness like the flu and get on with life, we would all benefit.  The  Norovirus has worse systems than Covid if you are fully vaccinated (unless you are immune compromised).

 

This was our first cruise post pandemic and will be the last until things get better.  Too many places we can travel in the US in our RV to worry about others having control over your life like we have read in this thread.

[Ex-Airbalancer]

A friend was on deck 6 on the TA 

I guess you were lucky and didn’t pick pick for Random Covid testing

our daughter and husband were both pick to get tested 

Edited May 21, 2022 by Ex-Airbalancer

[Ride-The-Waves]

12 minutes ago, Tony UK said:

Actually it was RCL on return to sailing who quoted 15 minutes for contact tracing. Celebrity said close contact for an extended period (unspecified). I'm not sure it is still being done. Certainly from personal experience last month it wasn't happening.

Anyway the point really is the industry cant recover if their arrangements are designed to suit the most cautious. Current USA flying rules and cruiselines pre sail testing are putting people off travelling out of the USA. Ships are sailing at low capacity. Europeans can travel throughout Europe to hotels and resorts with no testing other than if unvaaccinated. That option is likely to be more risky than a cruise ship actually but easier in terms of pre vacation stress

A more middle ground approach is needed to get the industry we love back on its feet again.

Across the United States people can travel anywhere they want, stay in hotels, fly, drive, train, whatever.  No restrictions.  No testing.  No questions.

 

The cruise lines themselves appear to not being doing themselves any favors.  For thee most part they have stopped or have announced they are stopping to assist passenger who have tested positive.  Friends just back from a Med cruise were unceremoniously dumped on the pier following a positive test.  Large group of people.  In one sense I can understand the financial reluctance of cruise lines wanting to assist.  On the other hand they are cutting their own throats by abandoning people, increasing prices and reducing service.  Those friends, decades long RCI advocates, have now sworn off cruising on RCI ships.  I don't envy cruise line management in their efforts to become profitable again, but they truly don't appear to be on the right path to solvency.  Maybe this will be "new normal;" higher prices, cut backs in service leading to fewer ships and thus a changed cruising demographic.  Maybe smaller ships are the future despite the "bet" some lines have made on mega ships.

[milkman55]

3 minutes ago, Ex-Airbalancer said:

A friend was on deck 6 on the TA 

I guess you were lucky and didn’t pick pick for Random Covid testing

our daughter and husband were both pick to get tested 

Random Covid test by who?  Canada or Celebrity?

 

When we went through Canadian customs, I didn’t see anyone picked for testing (pink sticker instead of green sticker).  Also, what I read was they would contact you within 3-4 days if positive.  We were in the US at the Buffalo airport in about 2 hrs after landing.

[Arizona Wildcat]

8 hours ago, cruiseboy89130 said:

All over the place.... I did about 20 TA's sometimes there was immigration on a sea day in the dining room but never had to give them my passport! And never would....

In Argentina or the Falklands you turn over your passport.  Same with a Morocco port.  Ditto in several countries.  Suggest you ask before cruising