CDC Ends Cruise Line Program as of 7/18/22

[colin v]

3 minutes ago, Crazy For Cats said:

I understand what you are pointing out.  It was my understanding that when we sailed Canada required tests for passengers embarking in Canada and not in the US.  If my understanding was incorrect I apologize for any confusion on my part.

 

All of us Canadians would like to say how sorry we are that you were incorrect.

 

In other news the Billy the Beaver has seen his shadow. There will be 6 more weeks of unrelenting heat this summer. Sorry!

 

 

[*Miss G*]

10 minutes ago, Crazy For Cats said:

I understand what you are pointing out.  It was my understanding that when we sailed Canada required tests for passengers embarking in Canada and not in the US.  If my understanding was incorrect I apologize for any confusion on my part.

 

Thank you, and I understand the confusion.  You are a gem.  😊  The Government of Canada bears the blame.  There is absolutely no way that most of those who aren’t boaters would realize the distinction.  I am honestly shocked that I was able to bring clarity!  I thought that was a losing battle for sure.  😂

[westcoaster]

2 hours ago, *Miss G* said:

 

I flew into Canada on the day (April 1st) COVID testing was lifted for AIR AND LAND BORDERS only.  

That's not correct.  Covid entry tests were lifted on April 1st for entry by air, land or sea.  For example, you don't need a Covid test to enter Canada by ferry.  

 

Covid testing for cruising is a separate issue.  Canada is simply regulating cruise ships operating at its ports and saying passengers need to have taken a pre-cruise Covid test.  That is different from requiring a test to enter Canada.

[*Miss G*]

4 minutes ago, westcoaster said:

That's not correct.  Covid entry tests were lifted on April 1st for entry by air, land or sea.  For example, you don't need a Covid test to enter Canada by ferry.

 

Well, if we’re going to be technical, it’s correct but not complete.  Yes, ferries are included in the water portion of the entry guidelines.  At that point in the conversation, however, I don’t think either of us could have dealt with muddier waters.  😂

[westcoaster]

What I was trying to explain is that the requirements Canada has for passengers to get a Covid test prior to boarding a cruise ship have nothing to do with crossing the border.  Even if a cruise is staying completely in Canada and no borders are crossed, passengers would still be required to get a pre-cruise test.

[CATandSQUID]

We welcome the CDC’s decision to end its current program in favor of a set of guidelines for public health operations on cruise ships. This change is a testament to the effectiveness of protocols we put in place following the resumption of sailing, with cruising being among the safest forms of travel today.  

  

We will review the newest guidelines, but there are no immediate changes to current COVID-19 protocols for Holland America Line itineraries. Guests can continue to use our website and the booked guest notices received as a guide for upcoming voyages.

[Mary229]

Perhaps I don’t understand what a pre-embarkation test is but that is what the Canadian website says.  Not transit test, pre-embarkation.  Pre-embarkation could have been 30 days prior if one were sailing from Europe.  It is not just ferries we are discussing here, the St Lawrence is one of the biggest shipping routes in the world and to my knowledge  those people are not tested,  interim orders Canadian Shipping Act.  So again it makes no sense, why let thousands upon thousands of sailors from all corners of the globe yet micromanage vaccinated cruise ship passengers.  That is the same here in the US.

Edited July 20, 2022 by Mary229

[iceman93]

18 hours ago, CruiserBruce said:

HAL is a business.  They can require masking if they wish. They can require a dress code if they wish.

Of course they can; they won't indefinitely, but they theoretically could.  So the only real question is how long it will be before the masking requirement is lifted, and my hope was it would be immediate.

[Mary229]

31 minutes ago, iceman93 said:

Of course they can; they won't indefinitely, but they theoretically could.  So the only real question is how long it will be before the masking requirement is lifted, and my hope was it would be immediate.

On my last cruise there were no masks required except in the Boston Terminal.  On my spring cruise, 3 weeks, there were no masks the first two weeks and of course at the Fort Lauderdale terminal.  I think perhaps it is Captain’s discretion based on statistics .  I think the choices HAL makes will be based on dollars.  They will have to figure out what the majority of customers want 

Edited July 20, 2022 by Mary229

[BermudaBound2014]

4 hours ago, Mary229 said:

 I think the choices HAL makes will be based on dollars.  They will have to figure out what the majority of customers want 

 

Exactly this! Given how divided the world is on the subject of covid protocols, I keep suggesting niche markets but no one in the cruise industry is listening. 😉 

[AKJonesy]

I for one will ONLY get my cruise news and requirements from Tony on the La Lida Loca channel on YT.  OK... just breaking things up here with a little humor.🤣  But still, I do like Tony.  

[cruisemom42]

1 hour ago, BermudaBound2014 said:

 

Exactly this! Given how divided the world is on the subject of covid protocols, I keep suggesting niche markets but no one in the cruise industry is listening. 😉 

 

I too think niche markets would be a good idea. The trouble is how gigantic the cruise industry is and how long it will take them to change course. I think right now there is a sort false hope that things will return to the previous and highly successful model for the industry.  Minimal cost effort and maximum returns with a model of low fares and ever increasing onboard spend.  I'm not sure that will be sustainable in the future with cruise passengers increasingly segmented.

 

It would also mean that travel agents and consumers will have to up their game to ensure they are booking the right ship with the right philosophy for them.

[BermudaBound2014]

@cruisemom42 agreed.

 

 I think it's going to take out of the box thinking to reinvent the industry. I just can't see us ever getting back to what it was pre-covid in time to save the financials. Do you remember when Carnival did niche marketing for non-smoking ships? This was back when people could smoke in the rooms and on the balcony. It was a good strategy while the industry figured out what cruisers really wanted in terms of smoking. 

 

I think the current challenge is figuring out what consumers want in terms of covid protocols. I think that changes a bit based on cruise line. For example (and this is very unscientific), but it appears people on HAL are leaning toward wanting pre-cruise testing. A current survey on the NCL forum shows that overwhelmingly those consumers want pre-testing abandoned immediately.

 

Vaccines are going to be a biggie and again will effect cruise lines a bit differently. Example, lines like NCL/RCL who cater primarily to families will likely want the vaccine mandates removed quicker than lines like HAL given the extremely small number of children who are vaccinated (less than 30% under 11).  https://www.aap.org/en/pages/2019-novel-coronavirus-covid-19-infections/children-and-covid-19-vaccination-trends/

 

 

It would certainly be very complex, but I think the experiment is worth initiating. The industry simply can't continue to add Billions of debt each quarter.

Edited July 20, 2022 by BermudaBound2014

[DaveOKC]

I just took an online survey (not through HAL) and it asked alot of the same questions about Covid and testing/vaccination/etc.  I am sure one of the cruise lines is paying for this.

 

[AKJonesy]

3 hours ago, BermudaBound2014 said:

The industry simply can't continue to add Billions of debt each quarter.

It will be difficult for the cruise industry to figure out how to make money while pleasing cruise passengers when it comes to covid and mandates.  Half the US is at complete odds with each other on mandates and from what I read on this forum re-opening (after covid) the disagreements got pretty heated.  IMHO it didn't help the cruise industry when covid broke to have all of the negative publicity and that is still talked about on different forums.  I don't know if they can overcome it.  Plus, it doesn't help when the whole covid thing is wrapped up in politics as well.  We will continue to cruise and are willing to "put up" with some stuff.  But, even 4 star I'm not willing to put up with any hassles that involve ALOT of hoops anymore.  I can go on vacation many places without being stressed if I'm going to end up in covid jail on the ship.

[BermudaBound2014]

7 hours ago, AKJonesy said:

It will be difficult for the cruise industry to figure out how to make money while pleasing cruise passengers when it comes to covid and mandates.

 

I can go on vacation many places without being stressed if I'm going to end up in covid jail on the ship.

 

Bingo! Like you, I have chosen land vacations since covid. Ever since watching David Able on the Diamond Princess I'm really squirmish about a quarantine. It's just not worth the risk when I can go to Hawaii instead :). Although, some of the deals I've been offered in the last 6 months are VERY hard to resist. If you can cruise last minute it is very inexpensive at this time.

 

 

 

 

[BermudaBound2014]

CCL just announced another 1 Billion (with a B) offering of common stock. Stock dropped another 8% after hours. I expect it will fall more tomorrow.  I know I sound like a broken record but it's very very bleak for CCL right now. If I had FCC's I'd be using them, but I tend to be conservative with that type of risk.

 

Carnival Corporation & plc (NYSE/LSE: CCL; NYSE: CUK), today announced that Carnival Corporation (the "Company") has commenced an underwritten public offering of $1,000,000,000 of shares of common stock of the Company. The Company intends to grant the underwriter a 30-day option to purchase up to $150,000,000 of additional shares of common stock of the Company. The Company expects to use the net proceeds from the offering for general corporate purposes, which could include addressing 2023 debt maturities.

Read more at: https://www.lelezard.com/en/news-20486138.html

 

[BermudaBound2014]

20 minutes ago, BermudaBound2014 said:

CCL just announced another 1 Billion (with a B) offering of common stock. Stock dropped another 8% after hours. I expect it will fall more tomorrow.  I know I sound like a broken record but it's very very bleak for CCL right now. If I had FCC's I'd be using them, but I tend to be conservative with that type of risk.

 

Carnival Corporation & plc (NYSE/LSE: CCL; NYSE: CUK), today announced that Carnival Corporation (the "Company") has commenced an underwritten public offering of $1,000,000,000 of shares of common stock of the Company. The Company intends to grant the underwriter a 30-day option to purchase up to $150,000,000 of additional shares of common stock of the Company. The Company expects to use the net proceeds from the offering for general corporate purposes, which could include addressing 2023 debt maturities.

Read more at: https://www.lelezard.com/en/news-20486138.html

 

 

Ugg, sorry. I didn't mean to post the common stock offering information in this thread.

[Sharon in AZ]

On 7/18/2022 at 7:46 PM, gilboman said:

Because by time people get sick, they're kicked off the ship or voyage is over already

 

You don't really get sick (if you do) till 5-7+ days after onset of symptoms 

 

Pre cruise testing isn't going anywhere when countries in carribean requires it as well as Canada and pretty much everywhere.

 

Most Europe countries  also requires it if you aren't boosted as well..so it's not going anywhere anytime soon

Not necessarily. My husband tested positive on Day 2 after having a difficult night breathing and coughing (Day 1 being embarkation day) after testing negative Day 0 with no symptoms to board the Oosterdam.  He missed the first 6 days of our cruise. He did enjoy the last 6 days but was still recovering. So, you can become ill at anytime during your cruise. 

Edited July 21, 2022 by Sharon in AZ

[Seasick Sailor]

2 hours ago, BermudaBound2014 said:

 

Bingo! Like you, I have chosen land vacations since covid. Ever since watching David Able on the Diamond Princess I'm really squirmish about a quarantine. It's just not worth the risk when I can go to Hawaii instead :). Although, some of the deals I've been offered in the last 6 months are VERY hard to resist. If you can cruise last minute it is very inexpensive at this time.

 

 

 

 

 

Not so fast on Hawaii vacations. We paid our $7800 on our 4 week timeshare at Westin on Maui. Breakfast is $100, lunch $130 and dinner an outrageous $170, not including tip. We both decided cruising is definitely cheaper, including our 45 days on Rotterdam beginning Dec 11th. 

[Mary229]

4 hours ago, Seasick Sailor said:

 

Not so fast on Hawaii vacations. We paid our $7800 on our 4 week timeshare at Westin on Maui. Breakfast is $100, lunch $130 and dinner an outrageous $170, not including tip. We both decided cruising is definitely cheaper, including our 45 days on Rotterdam beginning Dec 11th. 

I traveled extensively as part of my business .  Land travel is not cheap and just as prone to health concerns as cruising.  I think people are really confused about the “quarantine” aspect of cruising.   Unless you actually go to the medical offices know one is going to randomly test you and you can self quarantine in your room if you test yourself as Covid positive.  You can also request an early debarkation if Covid positive.  Cruise lines are not forcing people to test once boarded at least not Holland

Edited July 21, 2022 by Mary229

[Florida_gal_50]

1 hour ago, Mary229 said:

I traveled extensively as part of my business .  Land travel is not cheap and just as prone to health concerns as cruising.  I think people are really confused about the “quarantine” aspect of cruising.   Unless you actually go to the medical offices know one is going to randomly test you and you can self quarantine in your room if you test yourself as Covid positive.  You can also request an early debarkation if Covid positive.  Cruise lines are not forcing people to test once boarded at least not Holland

I think they might be a little suspicious if you never leave your room.  Leaving the cruise part way through might not be a great option unless you live where you get off the ship.  You still have to fly.  

[Mary229]

49 minutes ago, Florida_gal_50 said:

I think they might be a little suspicious if you never leave your room.  Leaving the cruise part way through might not be a great option unless you live where you get off the ship.  You still have to fly.  

They are not doing so, it is the honor system. No one is trying to nab anyone. On my longer cruises I know a couple who self isolated then tested in the medical center only to find out they had a cold!  I am glad they isolated as I don’t want to catch a cold either.  As far as leaving the ship, I also met a woman whose husband was quarantined and they requested debarkation and were allowed to do so.  Somewhere I read they attach a notice to your passport but I don’t  know if that is true.

 

PS. All of the reports are actually self-reported cases and crew.  Crew are required regular testing 

Edited July 21, 2022 by Mary229

[BermudaBound2014]

7 hours ago, Seasick Sailor said:

 

Not so fast on Hawaii vacations. We paid our $7800 on our 4 week timeshare at Westin on Maui. Breakfast is $100, lunch $130 and dinner an outrageous $170, not including tip. We both decided cruising is definitely cheaper, including our 45 days on Rotterdam beginning Dec 11th. 

 

HA! You're preaching to the choir. I'm very fortunate to spend 4 months a year on Maui (about 120 days). I could easily do a 180 world cruise cheaper. 

[BermudaBound2014]

3 hours ago, Mary229 said:

....and just as prone to health concerns as cruising.  

 

I respectfully disagree. I spent over 150 days on Maui in 2021 and just over 120 days on Maui in 2022. Completely covid free. What are the odds of spending 270 days aboard a cruise ship without Covid?

 

A 270 day world cruise is tempting because it's much cheaper than Maui, but I do not believe health concerns are the same on land. In any regard, in the event I did catch covid, I would much rather quarantine myself in a villa, as opposed to a couple hundred square foot cabin. 

 

I do believe it's true that cruise lines are not out seeking covid positive people at this time, but initially some were using facial recognition software to identify close contacts. An entire story from a lady on NCL who sat next to the wrong person at the comedy club and ended up in quarantine. Again, I don't think that is happening at this moment, but the precedence is there.

 

Cruising is very tempting right now because the prices are so attractive for last minute travel, but I'm still not ready to board........ just yet. And I have another 4 months planned in Maui in 2023 so my travel budget is pretty much spent.

 

 

 

Edited July 21, 2022 by BermudaBound2014