Food and dining on P&O ships

[RJChatsworth]

Thanks for replies.  We are going on Iona, no Club dining, shortly and wondering whether we have made a huge mistake.  When you are well into your 80s the last thing you need is to spend holiday time on a computer trying to book restaurants.  Must be like a bed sit in Margate and trying to book a restaurant each night in the town!

 

Ah well, we’ll see what it’s like.  I feel after taking our money for 40 odd years we don’t feature in the plans when it comes to new ships!  C’est la vie!

[Tablelamp]

What about going to reception and asking if you can book a table each night at the same time. Worth a try?

[tring]

3 hours ago, RJChatsworth said:

Fionboard - you having to explain Club dining on a P&O site perhaps explains the trend!!

 

Yes it was me who asked, Phil and Fionboard kindly answered what appears to now be a stupid question, I admit.

 

We have always done freedom dining when we had a choice, so never gave a thought to anything else when booking, though we had travelled on Artemis which was all set sittings and one cruise on Adonia in her maiden season, again no freedom dining, so perhaps the term was used then and I have forgotten about it.  I claim old age and memory loss........

 

Barbara

 

[RJChatsworth]

Hi Barbara - perhaps I’m the stupid one, too many cruises and assuming everyone else knows all about them.  It did occur to me later that maybe you’d not been on P&O.

 

The first time we did freedom dining soon after it was introduced you could book a table by turning up at 0750 every morning.  They only had a few tables to book and it was a scramble.  Nowadays I can only stand for about 5 minutes before pain takes over, thus I try to avoid such dining.  We go Cunard most of the time now as they are more user friendly where dining is concerned, in our opinion.

[tring]

34 minutes ago, RJChatsworth said:

Hi Barbara - perhaps I’m the stupid one, too many cruises and assuming everyone else knows all about them.  It did occur to me later that maybe you’d not been on P&O.

 

The first time we did freedom dining soon after it was introduced you could book a table by turning up at 0750 every morning.  They only had a few tables to book and it was a scramble.  Nowadays I can only stand for about 5 minutes before pain takes over, thus I try to avoid such dining.  We go Cunard most of the time now as they are more user friendly where dining is concerned, in our opinion.

 

We had only done the occasional P&O over more recent years, though did book a few during COVID, and have been on both Azura and Aurora for over twenty nights each earlier this winter, so will be Caribbean level after a fjords cruise we have booked for July.

 

The only really bad experience we had with freedom was on Oriana to the northern lights and solar eclipse in the Faroes a number of years back when the only way we could get into the dining room at a reasonable time (on any sized table) was to physically queue, standing up for about 45 minutes each night.  They were not using bleepers, except for people who turned up early and wanted a table for two after all the tables for two were allocated!  Must admit, it was not going well on Azura in October although we were able to get a bleeper or use the app, but the app kept dropping (even in the atrium area) and the bleeper did not work either.  Also they were very short staffed, so not the best of service as well.

 

Aurora was totally different with an excellent dining experience.  The app worked well, even in our cabin (mid ship deck B), though not on the balcony.  That was sorted easily by DH joining the queue whilst I poured a couple of drinks, then we left his phone on the bed whilst we went out onto the balcony with the drinks (on warm nights, which was most of them), just popping back occasionally to check his phone, refreshing the page as necessary.  Over the twenty eight nights we got used to the time we expected to wait so became easy to join the queue the correct time ahead of our chosen time, you can see how many people are in the queue ahead of you which helped.  Also you had 15 minutes to get to the restaurant after you have been called, so no need to rush off immediately.  The service in the dining room was excellent at all times, even formals which we gave up on Azura after the first week (choosing speciality restaurants most of those nights and the self service on some other nights - formal and non formal).  There did seem to be more staff in the restaurant, on Aurora, though I think a lot of people chose to eat early on her, possibly due to the older age demographic.  In fact after about eight o'clock it was a walk in as you wanted on most days, though there were only 1566 pax on the ship that Caribbean cruise.

 

I think freedom will work very well on P&O if the coverage of the app works better, which hopefully will happen in the future and more people are able and happy to use the app, though bleepers were also available and did seem to work.  Whilst we will choose to eat between 7pm and 8pm most nights we also did sometimes choose earlier and often went later.  Fixed dining was always a problem for us as we do prefer to vary our meal times to suit what we were doing each day and the next day and we do not go into the shows often either.  As you say though, all personal choice and we do happily cope with set dining on other lines if we need to (e.g. Fred who keeps promising a flexible option, but never seems to get around to it), as long as the itinerary is good, which is the main downfall of P&O in our opinion.

 

Set sittings were pretty popular on Aurora, so no problem there, but as the passenger age demographic reduces, I think set dining may decline as you fear, but not for a number of years yet.

 

Barbara

.

 

 

[Eglesbrech]

If there continue to be difficulties with constant queues for “freedom” dining on the newer ships I would not be at all surprised if some club dining makes a return. 

100% freedom dining also takes away one of the incentives for pax to pay for select fares as the only tangible benefits now are selecting a cabin and free shuttles.

[yorkshirephil]

2 hours ago, Eglesbrech said:

If there continue to be difficulties with constant queues for “freedom” dining on the newer ships I would not be at all surprised if some club dining makes a return. 

100% freedom dining also takes away one of the incentives for pax to pay for select fares as the only tangible benefits now are selecting a cabin and free shuttles.

I think it would make sense to add in club dining at least you know when a certain number of people will be sat down. We would always go for freedom as our first choice as that gives us a bit more flexibility to plan our day, however most evenings we dine early and are willing to share and have never had any problems.

 

The benefits of select fare seems to be dwindling especially now they seem to be moving people even when they have selected a cabin, there seems to be a large variation between the cost of select on some cruises and unless there are copious amounts of OBC there isn't much value to us.

[kruzseeka]

3 hours ago, Eglesbrech said:

If there continue to be difficulties with constant queues for “freedom” dining on the newer ships I would not be at all surprised if some club dining makes a return. 

100% freedom dining also takes away one of the incentives for pax to pay for select fares as the only tangible benefits now are selecting a cabin and free shuttles.

That could be something they would look at but i wonder how many passengers these days with a changing demographic would select fixed dining.  Also, with the increased availability of other dining options, there may be quite a high % of no shows in fixed dining on any given night because diners have decided to dine elsewhere leaving a lot of empty seats which would exacerbate the problem.

 

One of the problems for us re fixed dining is that tables for two are very limited and not guaranteed if you select fixed. Also you may not get your preferred sitting.

 

We're not unsociable, far from it, and in fact liked the very close-together tables for two on Azura in the freedom dining room - there are quite a lot of them in several areas arranged in front of long banquettes.  I've read complaints about them as the gaps between tables is narrow but as we could chat happily to our neighbouring diners we rather liked their proximity.

 

The advantage for us was that we were able to eat at a time to suit us, at our own pace and not be waiting for people having more courses than we would want (perhaps not such an issue now with the reduced menu I've read about!) especially if we wanted to get to a show.  It also allowed us to meet different people although often the same couples would end up in the same area each night. 

 

But we weren't stuck with dining companions who didn't gel.  On Cunard we were on a table for 8.  One couple turned up on the first day and never came back.  Perhaps they didn't like their dining companions!. Another couple came only on formal nights taking over the conversation speaking incessantly - we were glad they didn't come more often!  Which left four of us on most evenings.  Fortunately the other couple were American and were very interesting and also interested to talk to us about the UK too.  We had some good laughs and stimulating conversations.  We were lucky that they were the ones left!

 

So I'm disappointed to hear about the problems surrounding freedom dining as that is our choice.  It's to be hoped that the issues can be resolved but it strikes me the capacity for diners is spread over multiple dining areas and assumes passengers are pretty much distributed evenly between them.  The MDRs cannot possibly cope if insufficient passengers choose an alternative venue on any given night.

 

Hopefully we'll hear of an improving situation.

 

You make a good point about paying Select fares though - a heavy premium for basically choosing your cabin location.

[Eglesbrech]

4 minutes ago, kruzseeka said:

That could be something they would look at but i wonder how many passengers these days with a changing demographic would select fixed dining.  Also, with the increased availability of other dining options, there may be quite a high % of no shows in fixed dining on any given night because diners have decided to dine elsewhere leaving a lot of empty seats which would exacerbate the problem.

 

One of the problems for us re fixed dining is that tables for two are very limited and not guaranteed if you select fixed. Also you may not get your preferred sitting.

 

We're not unsociable, far from it, and in fact liked the very close-together tables for two on Azura in the freedom dining room - there are quite a lot of them in several areas arranged in front of long banquettes.  I've read complaints about them as the gaps between tables is narrow but as we could chat happily to our neighbouring diners we rather liked their proximity.

 

The advantage for us was that we were able to eat at a time to suit us, at our own pace and not be waiting for people having more courses than we would want (perhaps not such an issue now with the reduced menu I've read about!) especially if we wanted to get to a show.  It also allowed us to meet different people although often the same couples would end up in the same area each night. 

 

But we weren't stuck with dining companions who didn't gel.  On Cunard we were on a table for 8.  One couple turned up on the first day and never came back.  Perhaps they didn't like their dining companions!. Another couple came only on formal nights taking over the conversation speaking incessantly - we were glad they didn't come more often!  Which left four of us on most evenings.  Fortunately the other couple were American and were very interesting and also interested to talk to us about the UK too.  We had some good laughs and stimulating conversations.  We were lucky that they were the ones left!

 

So I'm disappointed to hear about the problems surrounding freedom dining as that is our choice.  It's to be hoped that the issues can be resolved but it strikes me the capacity for diners is spread over multiple dining areas and assumes passengers are pretty much distributed evenly between them.  The MDRs cannot possibly cope if insufficient passengers choose an alternative venue on any given night.

 

Hopefully we'll hear of an improving situation.

 

You make a good point about paying Select fares though - a heavy premium for basically choosing your cabin location.

My personal preference is for freedom dining as well for similar reasons to you own. I’m a slow eater and end up leaving food when dining at a larger table as I feel I’m slowing everyone else down.
 

I also don’t mind a bit of a wait with an app/ pager and don’t expect immediate seating but I’m not happy waiting for ages or having to queue if the app fails.

 

It also feels like the current model (on the larger ships) relies heavily on at least some people booking speciality dining, Limelight, eating in the buffet etc. . If they don’t and all head to the MDR it probably can’t cope.

 

Because of the recent poor reports we have done exactly what P&O probably want us to and booked specialty dining for now 8 out of 14 nights, we hope we can get Olive Grove and Beach House booked at embarkation. We got the cruise at a good price so don’t mind paying a bit extra to guarantee a table and a decent meal with out an excess wait.

 

You can’t second guess the behaviour of passengers though and while I’m happy to spend on speciality as I perceive I got a reasonable price others will buy the bargain (or may have paid much more) and want to utilise the restaurants already paid for. With freedoms they will appear when they want to, perhaps all at once. Club would even that out a bit.

 

 

[jeanlyon]

We have mostly had excellent tables on Club dining, tables for 8 and made some good friends, but it was a really bad table that pushed us to choose Freedom.  We will see what our next cruise brings.

[Interestedcruisefan]

Something I don't think we've discussed but potentially very very relevant here

 

In normal restaurants by far the hardest night of the year for staff and logistics is a full restaurant on Valentine's night

 

Reason being - all the tables are for 2

 

It totally multiplies out many many times the amount of time it takes to seat people, take food orders, take drinks orders and prep and serve those orders

 

Extremely stop start

 

A move from large tables ordering and being served at once to multiple tables ordering and being served separately

 

SEVERELY increases the man hours it takes to look after the customers

 

And when you think about it

 

Set hours on set tables means that after the first night on a cruise guests can just head to their tables without having to queue

 

The change in logistics and man hours needed is absolutely huge moving everybody to freedom dining with choice of times and different table each night

 

Ask any restaurant manager how hard it is running Valentine's night with so many small tables for 2 turning up separately waiting to be served

 

Larger tables make life easier for all concerned. Including the kitchen and the chefs

 

On a cruise with set tables and set times each night it takes away the need to queue to be seated for your table other than on your first night

 

It's a huge difference when you think about it like that

 

 

Edited January 22, 2023 by Interestedcruisefan

[tring]

16 hours ago, jeanlyon said:

I've just changed my October cruise back from Freedom to Club on Aurora.  No queuing and they will keep your wine for the next night 🙂

 

No problem having wine kept if freedom dining.  They just give you a card which you bring and hand over to get your wine brought to the table the next day.

 

 

[Fionboard]

The only reason I pay more for Select is to choose second sitting shared table. Not important to some but it is to me as a solo traveller. Have made good friends from dining companions.

[Megabear2]

45 minutes ago, Interestedcruisefan said:

Something I don't think we've discussed but potentially very very relevant here

 

In normal restaurants by far the hardest night of the year for staff and logistics is a full restaurant on Valentine's night

 

Reason being - all the tables are for 2

 

It totally multiplies out many many times the amount of time it takes to seat people, take food orders, take drinks orders and prep and serve those orders

 

Extremely stop start

 

A move from large tables ordering and being served at once to multiple tables ordering and being served separately

 

SEVERELY increases the man hours it takes to look after the customers

 

And when you think about it

 

Set hours on set tables means that after the first night on a cruise guests can just head to their tables without having to queue

 

The change in logistics and man hours needed is absolutely huge moving everybody to freedom dining with choice of times and different table each night

 

Ask any restaurant manager how hard it is running Valentine's night with so many small tables for 2 turning up separately waiting to be served

 

Larger tables make life easier for all concerned. Including the kitchen and the chefs

 

On a cruise with set tables and set times each night it takes away the need to queue to be seated for your table other than on your first night

 

It's a huge difference when you think about it like that

 

 

This is the point I made on the Arvia maiden thread.  There is as far as I know no limit to the amount of time people are spending at their tables with freedom dining.  That means the diners, particularly the earlier ones, could be occupying their tables for far longer than planning intended.  If RC were aiming for 75 minutes with increased staff for each diner on their megaships but say that 90 minutes is more realistic (remember they also have fixed club dining restaurants running alongside) then as ICF says the mathematics will be wrong.  He is speaking about one day a year creating a problem but P&O will be dealing with this 365 days a year.

 

That equates to either more staff needed or a possible maximum time for passengers to be at the table.  

[Denarius]

56 minutes ago, Fionboard said:

The only reason I pay more for Select is to choose second sitting shared table. Not important to some but it is to me as a solo traveller. Have made good friends from dining companions.

I am also a solo traveller, but take the opposite view. I like to meet new people at dinner rather than sit with the same people every evening. You meet many interesting people that way, and if you are unfortunate enough to be seated with someone you can't stand you can console yourself with the thought that you are unlikely to to be so again.

[jeanlyon]

1 hour ago, tring said:

 

No problem having wine kept if freedom dining.  They just give you a card which you bring and hand over to get your wine brought to the table the next day.

 

 

That's interesting.  Someone told me you couldn't do that any more on Freedom.

[davecttr]

As I mentioned elsewhere I counted the seats in the lower MDR on Carnival Celebration and there are 950 seats. She is the same class as Iona/Arvia so the MDR's look to be a similar size. This means there are probably less than 2000 seats in the two big MDR's, not enough for 5000 passengers and not counting the children. Also, Arvia  has no small MDR's .

[yorkshirephil]

19 minutes ago, jeanlyon said:

That's interesting.  Someone told me you couldn't do that any more on Freedom.

They were doing that on Arcadia just before Christmas

[tring]

59 minutes ago, jeanlyon said:

That's interesting.  Someone told me you couldn't do that any more on Freedom.

 

We were on Aurora in November and that was the system.  I had read that P&O were not doing it last year with the covid restrictions, so perhaps it has started since the restrictions eased.

 

Aurora was functioning very well when we were on her and was in good condition too, though as it was our first time onboard, I cannot compare to previously.  We are due onboard again at the end of June and then Canada/US with the previous week at the end of August.

 

Barbara

Edited January 22, 2023 by tring

[twotravellersLondon]

3 hours ago, kruzseeka said:

That could be something they would look at but i wonder how many passengers these days with a changing demographic would select fixed dining.

 

 At least one line that has the offer of fixed dining will only keep the table for 30 minutes and then will release it for freedom dining. This means that if those who've booked the fixed dining have other arrangements... such as speciality dining... the seating capacity is very quickly made available and keeps waiting to a minimum. Of course, if those on fixed dining don't intend to use their table on any particular evening... they can let the waiter know in advance and that means that it can be used as soon as it's needed by freedom diners. In our experience, its worked very well.

[No pager thank you]

One of the issues is that on the smaller ships, there are fewer paid upgrade options and the buffet restaurants are not equipped to take sizeable numbers.  Therefore, the success of the dining service relies more on the "predictability" of the flow associated with the club dining. 

 

My sense, also experienced on Aurora last year when we were on "Freedom Dining," but eventually, we were asked by the waiting staff if we would like to suggest a time of coming to dinner each evening.  Our typical wait was around 45 minutes from that time.  Waiting times for tables in Freedom have grown.  This is because the issues around waiting on and kitchens staff are present on the smaller ships too.

 

My sense is that, perversely, this will restore the popularity of "Club Dining," on the smaller ships, whereas the larger ships go in the opposite direction.  This will though lead to the next problem, which is the trend of sharing tables appears to be less popular than in the past.  More pressure on limited club dining capacity will require more couples to join larger tables, so, their "freedom" (of table size) will reduce too.  Our choice, but we would always wait rather than share tables.

 

A very good point about the attractiveness of the Select Fare - the upgrade cost is usually much more on the smaller ships than the larger ones.  This made me wonder - is the plan to encourage more Arcadia and Aurora guests to choose "Early Saver," or "Saver," so that they lose control over cabin and dining choice (being given app-based "Freedom" by default), so that it reduces the problem stated above, or encouraging people to pay just "a little bit extra."

 

Higher "Select Fares" are another, indirect way, of asking passengers to pay more for better, and a more predictable dining experience.  This is the only way to achieve this, if this can't be got from attending and paying more for the specialty dining restaurants etc. 

[kruzseeka]

6 minutes ago, twotravellersLondon said:

 

 At least one line that has the offer of fixed dining will only keep the table for 30 minutes and then will release it for freedom dining. This means that if those who've booked the fixed dining have other arrangements... such as speciality dining... the seating capacity is very quickly made available and keeps waiting to a minimum. Of course, if those on fixed dining don't intend to use their table on any particular evening... they can let the waiter know in advance and that means that it can be used as soon as it's needed by freedom diners. In our experience, its worked very well.

That makes a lot of sense.  Do we know if P&O do likewise on those ships which still have fixed dining?  (Mind there aren't so many alternative venues on those ships so perhaps not as much of an issue with no-shows.)

[yorkshirephil]

4 minutes ago, twotravellersLondon said:

 

 At least one line that has the offer of fixed dining will only keep the table for 30 minutes and then will release it for freedom dining. This means that if those who've booked the fixed dining have other arrangements... such as speciality dining... the seating capacity is very quickly made available and keeps waiting to a minimum. Of course, if those on fixed dining don't intend to use their table on any particular evening... they can let the waiter know in advance and that means that it can be used as soon as it's needed by freedom diners. In our experience, its worked very well.

HAL did this when we were on Koningsdam, it worked for tables of 2 and to a degree 4, if no one turned up.  It is not a good option to seat people on a larger table where they are already on their main course on bigger tables. However it was better than leaving empty tables. I do believe this is what Cunard are planning for their updated anytime dining.

[Ardennais]

We choose Freedom as we don’t want to share a table. Don’t mind waiting with a pager. I remember we paid select fare (or equivalent) on our first FO cruise and requested a table for 2. We were allocated a sharing table, and they were unable or unwilling to give us a table for 2. It was only 7 nights with a few evenings in port, so we happily used the buffet. However I wouldn’t have been so happy on a longer cruise. 

[PJ's]

We also did a FO cruise some years ago now and requested a table for 2 which we were allocated. BUT next to us was a table for 4 and we were so close to them that the waiter took all the orders at the same time. We might as well have asked for a table of 6. Fortunately we all got on fine and had a few laughs. We always book club dining and now cruise with friend so we request just a table for 4.