How Many Understaffed HAL Ships Have You Sailed On

[Cruisin'allovertheworld]

On 2/11/2023 at 4:43 AM, mcrcruiser said:

  What needs correcting is  the moral compass here in the USA    This is  the REAL reason people are having problems . Search deep & you will find the truth  . BTW ,I was 10  years old  shining shoes  in the Bronx  NYC  because my parents could not afford  things I wished for . I was a depression baby & not until WW 2 did the USA start to come out of the depression because of the war effort economy . I was one of those who struggled ,so I know first hand   .I also paid for my  college degree working P/T  no government loans 

1) Wished for is so very different to need.

2) Incorrect. Technically the great depression in the USA went from 1929 to 1936, with 1937/38 being a recession.

It was not until well into WW2 when the USA was forced into action...December 1941...

3) Congratulations. College degrees used to cost 2c...and were still financially unattainable for many.

*eyeroll*

 

Haven't cruised yet but going to be in July- and cannot wait, regardless of staffing levels.

 

 

[CruiserBruce]

1 hour ago, Cruisin'allovertheworld said:

1) Wished for is so very different to need.

2) Incorrect. Technically the great depression in the USA went from 1929 to 1936, with 1937/38 being a recession.

It was not until well into WW2 when the USA was forced into action...December 1941...

3) Congratulations. College degrees used to cost 2c...and were still financially unattainable for many.

*eyeroll*

 

Haven't cruised yet but going to be in July- and cannot wait, regardless of staffing levels.

 

 

Thank you for your perspective. Some Americans think there is only one view of history.

[Pickalily, Wilts]

1 hour ago, mcrcruiser said:

We have read all the posts  which of course is very time consuming . My take away is even though we have legitimate complaints  ,HAL management is looking the other way  whether we like it or not  .imo ,they probably are saying ,we are getting revenue results ,so why change things until it impacts revenue  .  

 Not some thing we like to see & experience  . So we accept what we get or we decide to go else where with our vacation dollars . Each of us will need to evaluate what we get for what we pay out & from there make our decisions

They run HAL but we run our spending

 

 

There is so much choice out there and when someone is as disillusioned as you appear to be, it would be completely logical for you to go elsewhere.  Part of the 'fun' is researching all the options.  Good wishes for finding another vacation provider, be it land based or floating.  Leisure time is precious and value for money is important and if you feel you're being short-changed, you cannot be blamed for looking seriously at the alternatives.

[Hlitner]

On 2/11/2023 at 8:30 AM, Laminator said:

Had a wonderful dinner last night in FLL with a higher up from the casino division. HAL is having trouble with staffing issues across most facets of the operation. It's not for their lack of effort. Shipboard life for the crew is not an easy one as you all well know. Retention rate is not stellar right now. The quality of the candidates for what HAL is looking for is also not the best. It is definitely not for lack of effort on HAL's part. So do we throw them under the bus or continue to support them. I am not one for kicking someone when they are down. Things will never be like they were back in the day. But for us, who are boarding the NS in 90 minutes, we will continue to enjoy ourselves.

 

We do not view cruises like football games.  Like most folks we pay our money and expect decent value for money spent.  The road to bankruptcy and failure is paved with excuses and we no longer accept the BS being floated around by some cruise lines (and posters).  So perhaps a better saying than (not kicking them when down) is if they can't stand the heat than its time for them to get out of the kitchen (business).   Many of HAL's problems are of their own making and started well before the COVID shutdown.  We had posted, more than 5 years ago, that HAL seemed like a ship without a rudder...in that they had no clue where they wanted to take the company.  That seems to continue.  After years of promoting and establishing their BB King concept they simply abandon it, change the name, and apparently cut-back on the size of the groups (this is still a question).  Many old HAL fans loved the Lincoln Center concept, so lets shut that down except for an occasional visit by a guest group (roll the dice if this will even happen on your cruise).  Enjoy lobster night?  No problem, you can still have lobster but now need to pay an add-on.  Are you used to the great HAL cabin service (twice a day with the best cabin staff on the seas)?  Well, I guess you can still request the twice a day service and watch the understaffed cabin staff struggle to do an adequate job in the less allotted time.

 

HAL lovers might want to look ahead at the future of HAL.  About half their fleet will soon be over 20 years old (with even older technology) and, sadly, there are no plans (at least through 2028) to add any new vessels.  Instead, we think it is likely that HAL will jettison more of their fleet.  CCL continues to invest in new ships for some of their other lines (Princess, Seabourn, etc) but nothing for HAL.  Perhaps HAL will be like the old soldier that simply fades away or becomes a very small cruise line specializing in longer more exotic itineraries (which would be fine for me).  But for now, the "ship without a rudder" still applies.

 

Hank

 

 

[Florida_gal_50]

24 minutes ago, Hlitner said:

We do not view cruises like football games.  Like most folks we pay our money and expect decent value for money spent.  The road to bankruptcy and failure is paved with excuses and we no longer accept the BS being floated around by some cruise lines (and posters).  So perhaps a better saying than (not kicking them when down) is if they can't stand the heat than its time for them to get out of the kitchen (business).   Many of HAL's problems are of their own making and started well before the COVID shutdown.  We had posted, more than 5 years ago, that HAL seemed like a ship without a rudder...in that they had no clue where they wanted to take the company.  That seems to continue.  After years of promoting and establishing their BB King concept they simply abandon it, change the name, and apparently cut-back on the size of the groups (this is still a question).  Many old HAL fans loved the Lincoln Center concept, so lets shut that down except for an occasional visit by a guest group (roll the dice if this will even happen on your cruise).  Enjoy lobster night?  No problem, you can still have lobster but now need to pay an add-on.  Are you used to the great HAL cabin service (twice a day with the best cabin staff on the seas)?  Well, I guess you can still request the twice a day service and watch the understaffed cabin staff struggle to do an adequate job in the less allotted time.

 

HAL lovers might want to look ahead at the future of HAL.  About half their fleet will soon be over 20 years old (with even older technology) and, sadly, there are no plans (at least through 2028) to add any new vessels.  Instead, we think it is likely that HAL will jettison more of their fleet.  CCL continues to invest in new ships for some of their other lines (Princess, Seabourn, etc) but nothing for HAL.  Perhaps HAL will be like the old soldier that simply fades away or becomes a very small cruise line specializing in longer more exotic itineraries (which would be fine for me).  But for now, the "ship without a rudder" still applies.

 

Hank

 

 

If uou get your cruise for free it's pretty easy to have low expectations.  I thought I'd heard everything when I saw that posters on here are busing their own and other tables.  Because I refuse to do that for the thousands I pay I get told I'm lazy.  The cheerleaders are well and alive and if you say anything negative best be ready to be told to get lost.

[kazu]

I haven’t seen reports on this thread about people bussing their own tables.  I know there certainly was no need on my last 2 cruises (recent).;  

 

And frankly, I think this thing about people getting free cruises is overblown.  Those are casino cruises and the casino pays and the whole world doesn’t get them for crying out loud. 

 

@Hlitneron two HAL cruises in November & December - January.  Both ships gave me twice a day service - I didn’t ask - I just got it.  Don’t disagree with you on the no rudder part.  If Seabourn is getting a new ship it sure would be nice to see one of the others to go to HAL to replace the P’dam.  I know, wishful thinking.  LOL.

 

[Shippy]

  Regarding extra $$ for lobster & once a day cabin service....check around other cruise lines. Some are following the same way.

   When we started cruising, decades ago, there was no such thing as a pay restaurant.

I predict in the future that the main dining room will be the ONLY one you do not pay for.

    As far as staffing.......just about EVERY store & restaurant where I live has help wanted signs in their windows.

A lot of cruise lines are now offering 'different ' experiences '  or levels. The more you pay, the more service & perks you will get. This is the way of the future of cruising

BUT

It is still the best bang for your buck. Try pricing out a 7 night trip at a hotel with meals, entertainment,etc !

 

[Destiny0315]

1 hour ago, Hlitner said:

HAL lovers might want to look ahead at the future of HAL.  About half their fleet will soon be over 20 years old (with even older technology) and, sadly, there are no plans (at least through 2028) to add any new vessels

Just some facts because as you said, "we no longer accept the BS being floated around by some cruise lines(and posters)". HAL has 12 ships, 6 of which will be 20+ years old in 2024, CCL has 24 ships, 12 of which will be 20+ years old in 2024, and Princess has 15 ships, 6 of which will be 20+ years old in 2024. So 51 ships with 24 being 20+ years old soon= 47%. The CCL number is only Carnival originals and does not include the two Costa ships that they have transferred over to Carnival for use. Costa though still has two more ships that are currently anchored and not in use but are do back in service in the coming months.

[Destiny0315]

Also here are the numbers for RCCL, 26 ships with 13 that will be 20+ years old in 2024 and NCL, 18 ships with 6 that will be 20+ years old in 2024. 

[Hlitner]

3 hours ago, Destiny0315 said:

Just some facts because as you said, "we no longer accept the BS being floated around by some cruise lines(and posters)". HAL has 12 ships, 6 of which will be 20+ years old in 2024, CCL has 24 ships, 12 of which will be 20+ years old in 2024, and Princess has 15 ships, 6 of which will be 20+ years old in 2024. So 51 ships with 24 being 20+ years old soon= 47%. The CCL number is only Carnival originals and does not include the two Costa ships that they have transferred over to Carnival for use. Costa though still has two more ships that are currently anchored and not in use but are do back in service in the coming months.

I am trying to find 12 HAL ships as I only count 11. Since a few sources only talk about scheduled new builds through 2028, I was using that date.  As of 2028, 7 or HAL's 11 ships will be 20 or more years old with no replacements in the pipeline.  

 

 

[Hlitner]

4 hours ago, kazu said:

I haven’t seen reports on this thread about people bussing their own tables.  I know there certainly was no need on my last 2 cruises (recent).;  

 

And frankly, I think this thing about people getting free cruises is overblown.  Those are casino cruises and the casino pays and the whole world doesn’t get them for crying out loud. 

 

@Hlitneron two HAL cruises in November & December - January.  Both ships gave me twice a day service - I didn’t ask - I just got it.  Don’t disagree with you on the no rudder part.  If Seabourn is getting a new ship it sure would be nice to see one of the others to go to HAL to replace the P’dam.  I know, wishful thinking.  LOL.

 

The two new Seabourn ships (one already delivered) are smaller Luxury Expedition ships.  Like you, I would love to see a small ship replacement for the Prinsendam but I do not see the Seabourn ships as likely candidates.  They are all built to luxury standards with all suites and very high space ratios.  I used to think that HAL might be able to pick up one of the old Renaissance Ships, which are now becoming somewhat old.  I could see a scenario where Oceania might be willing to sell one or more of their "R" ships since they do not really fit into their image of a "Premium" cruise line.   But those old "R" ships have one big fault which is the small size of their bathrooms.

 

Hank

[Destiny0315]

27 minutes ago, Hlitner said:

I am trying to find 12 HAL ships as I only count 11. Since a few sources only talk about scheduled new builds through 2028, I was using that date.  As of 2028, 7 or HAL's 11 ships will be 20 or more years old with no replacements in the pipeline

Your right my mistake only 11 ships in the HAL fleet but only 5 will be 20+ years old in 2024. If you read the post about the RCCL and NCL numbers, it looks like NCL has the newest fleet and more in their pipeline coming if their $$ hold up.

[mcrcruiser]

30 minutes ago, Destiny0315 said:

Your right my mistake only 11 ships in the HAL fleet but only 5 will be 20+ years old in 2024. If you read the post about the RCCL and NCL numbers, it looks like NCL has the newest fleet and more in their pipeline coming if their $$ hold up.

This is the best word " IF"  is  to describe  the current state of the cruise line business  .Yes if this & if that will or could or maybe  seems to be the current going around . Ultimately the facts will speak for themselves & loudly .  

 All I care about is that I receive   value promised for  my paid vacation  .Should that not happen , then we  stop using that source

[OlsSalt]

41 minutes ago, mcrcruiser said:

This is the best word " IF"  is  to describe  the current state of the cruise line business  .Yes if this & if that will or could or maybe  seems to be the current going around . Ultimately the facts will speak for themselves & loudly .  

 All I care about is that I receive   value promised for  my paid vacation  .Should that not happen , then we  stop using that source

 

I wonder how many passengers pay HAL extra when its value exceeds their expectations - and I don't mean staff tips 

 

I mean sending a check to HAL and tell they they underpriced their cruise, because you want to make good on their exceptional delivery. 

[mcrcruiser]

20 minutes ago, OlsSalt said:

 

I wonder how many passengers pay HAL extra when its value exceeds their expectations - and I don't mean staff tips 

 

I mean sending a check to HAL and tell they they underpriced their cruise, because you want to make good on their exceptional delivery. 

Are you serious ? We understand  decent value received but we also understand  decent value not received  ;as most  people  understand . Since when does any cruise line  give you more than you paid to receive ? This is a business not  my family members or close friends  

[HappyInVan]

23 minutes ago, OlsSalt said:

I mean sending a check to HAL and tell they they underpriced their cruise, because you want to make good on their exceptional delivery. 

 

Most customers repay by booking another stay. That's what it means to be a loyal customer!

 

The biz doesn't have to spend money on advertisements and promotions to induce customers to return. So, today's intense advertising and promotions is a sign of HAL's decline.

 

Let's not forget the value of positive social feedback. The happy customers influence friends and relatives. The unhappy customer also has a role in these forums, despite the best efforts of the cheerleaders.

[Sea42]

8 hours ago, HappyInVan said:

The biz doesn't have to spend money on advertisements and promotions to induce customers to return. So, today's intense advertising and promotions is a sign of HAL's decline.

Then Oceania, Regent and Viking are in serious trouble. They send me mailers almost daily with their "special" deals.

[jjones1622]

Just back from our 13th cruise.  Got Covid on an understaffed, fully occupied ship.  Got it 2 days before disembarkation from 17 day cruise.  1st thing we did when we got home, licking our covid wounds, was CANCEL the next 3 cruises.  It's not what it used to be.  Have fun cruisers.  The industry has not recovered. (in my opinion)

[3rdGenCunarder]

No, the industry hasn't recovered. And cruise lines may be looking at customer reactions and retention to see if the current staffing levels are "good enough" to get by, so tell them what you think when you get the survey. 

 

I could see the cost cutting and reduced staff on my recent cruise. Not surprising, given how much money the covid pause cost the cruise lines, but nothing I noticed "ruined my cruise." So, for me, at least the industry is back to the point where I can get on a ship and go somewhere. 

Edited February 13, 2023 by 3rdGenCunarder

[Ipeeinthepools]

42 minutes ago, jjones1622 said:

Just back from our 13th cruise.  Got Covid on an understaffed, fully occupied ship.  Got it 2 days before disembarkation from 17 day cruise.  1st thing we did when we got home, licking our covid wounds, was CANCEL the next 3 cruises.  It's not what it used to be.  Have fun cruisers.  The industry has not recovered. (in my opinion)

Sorry we’ll miss sailing with you.  I think the industry has recovered and I wouldn’t really expect anything but evolutionary changes going forward.  Sorry you got infected on your cruise.  The ports and all of the on-shore experiences have also recovered and are waiting for us.

[mcrcruiser]

In the CNN business  on line news  the headlines  where about how much trouble  going forward  corporations carrying high debt would be  in  .This all makes sense as interest rates keep rising  the cruise lines debt that they must service gets higher  & higher . This means  that they will be in a lot of hurt & how this translates down to the physical products or services  will definitely be different than before all this debt & rising interest rates   occurred  

 

 There is no question in my mind that  the cruise product is going to change & change considerably , for the cruise lines to have any chance for survival  .  However ,understaffing would be a death blow in the long term   .Prices will continue to rise  in line with interest rate increases & even more 

[OlsSalt]

Our second favorite cruise line was Voyages of Discovery that used the old "Love Boat" sister ship the former "Island Princess", renamed the Discovery.

 

Old, battered, clunky, unmodern, military barrack style ensuite bathroom, heavy with painted over rust, limited dining and public space  facilities, but just enough to be serviceable for basic needs - food, shelter and global travel.  

 

But what itineraries it offered. Small enough to get prime downtown docking rights, but seaworthy enough to travel to the far corners of the world.  What wonderful enrichment programs it offered.

 

It was a very beloved cruise option and we sorely miss it. So if this is one of the  fundamental changes in direction for  cruising - very on low frills, but very high on travel and enrichment, we will be happy cruise customers for years to come.

[*Miss G*]

It’s difficult to find worth in the fundamental spamming of the board with ongoing bashing and conjecture threads.  While they do hold some entertainment value, they are more diversional than educational.

 

It’s also difficult to take seriously the opinions of those who haven’t sailed specific lines and/or ships in many years.  It becomes detrimental when the unsuspecting read opinions formed by incomplete information and take them as fact… and so the myth becomes propagated.  

 

20 hours ago, Hlitner said:

After years of promoting and establishing their BB King concept they simply abandon it, change the name, and apparently cut-back on the size of the groups (this is still a question). 

 

It has been 10 years (March 2013) since the BB King Clubs were introduced to Holland America.  This tells me that the contract was up for renegotiation or expiration.  As none of us were involved in those discussions it is impossible to determine whether the concept was “abandoned” by HAL, a decision was made by the Promoter, or it was a mutual agreement.  Change doesn’t necessarily have a negative connotation, although those who have difficulty coping with change would see it in another light.

 

20 hours ago, Hlitner said:

Many old HAL fans loved the Lincoln Center concept, so lets shut that down except for an occasional visit by a guest group (roll the dice if this will even happen on your cruise).

 

Since that has yet to happen, no one knows how the future is going to look and what HAL has in store.  Perhaps they are responding to requests by artists and guests to relocate the venue due to the ongoing disruptions caused by current locations.  I will wait to see how things evolve as opposed to conjecturing.

 

12 hours ago, HappyInVan said:

The unhappy customer also has a role in these forums, despite the best efforts of the cheerleaders.

 

Agree that there is space for alternative points of view but the name-calling directed at those who have enjoyed their experiences and/or have less rigid views of what it takes to have an enjoyable experience are certainly uncalled for.  Why can they not just be “happy” customers as a counterpart to the “unhappy” customers?  Name-calling is dismissive, provocative, and an attempt to devalue the worth of the message and the messenger.

[3rdGenCunarder]

30 minutes ago, OlsSalt said:

Our second favorite cruise line was Voyages of Discovery that used the old "Love Boat" sister ship the former "Island Princess", renamed the Discovery.

 

Old, battered, clunky, unmodern, military barrack style ensuite bathroom, heavy with painted over rust, limited dining and public space  facilities, but just enough to be serviceable for basic needs - food, shelter and global travel.  

 

But what itineraries it offered. Small enough to get prime downtown docking rights, but seaworthy enough to travel to the far corners of the world.  What wonderful enrichment programs it offered.

 

It was a very beloved cruise option and we sorely miss it. So if this is one of the  fundamental changes in direction for  cruising - very on low frills, but very high on travel and enrichment, we will be happy cruise customers for years to come.

 

I saw the Discovery in Australia. At first someone said that it was the old "Love Boat," but then we were corrected. 

 

Those "old girls" were built to last. Discovery made it to 44, Love Boat to 41. The France (later Norway) sailed for 41 years. QE2 almost made it to 40. But now so many people want to sail on the newest ships with the most bells and whistles that people look at a ship built 20 years ago as "too old." 

[mcrcruiser]

2 hours ago, OlsSalt said:

Our second favorite cruise line was Voyages of Discovery that used the old "Love Boat" sister ship the former "Island Princess", renamed the Discovery.

 

Old, battered, clunky, unmodern, military barrack style ensuite bathroom, heavy with painted over rust, limited dining and public space  facilities, but just enough to be serviceable for basic needs - food, shelter and global travel.  

 

But what itineraries it offered. Small enough to get prime downtown docking rights, but seaworthy enough to travel to the far corners of the world.  What wonderful enrichment programs it offered.

 

It was a very beloved cruise option and we sorely miss it. So if this is one of the  fundamental changes in direction for  cruising - very on low frills, but very high on travel and enrichment, we will be happy cruise customers for years to come.

That's the past but the future can be a very different experience  . The moving word of these days is : Change