Gratuity is Out Of Hand

[cruzsnooze]

You're welcome to disagree and present different opinions but insults are not welcome. FLAME SUIT ENGAGED but hopefuuly not needed. 

     There are several areas that the newest suggested  gratuity irks me. What used to be reasonable was the dinning room staff and the room steward. Now they have everyone on board included. Revenue generating areas would be cruise directors (think Bingo) gym classes, shops, shore excursion desk, guest services and of course internet cafe tech, photography dept.   Beside the Captain and officers  who's left out.

      Do different staterooms use different levels of service? There may be a slight difference in the time it takes to service  different cabin categories but not a huge difference and no other service is elevated. Unless in Reserve class the rest remains the same and I'm already paying an elevated service fee in club class. Isn't that $40-$110 PP PD a service fee for club class because it's not higher quality food.  I believe the begging/suggestion of gratuity and who is in the pool has grown to an unreasonable level. It's irrelevant what one can afford it's about fairness and transparency and value. When I extend a gratuity in every case other then on a cruise I know what I'm giving and to whom. 

 

What is a Crew Appreciation?

The crew appreciation is a daily (adjustable) amount added to your onboard account and pooled in order to recognize the many crew members in the Bar, Dining, Entertainment, Housekeeping, Guest Services, Galley and Onboard Revenue areas and entertainment areas throughout our fleet who contribute to the guest experience. The daily amount of the Crew Appreciation is based on stateroom category: $14.50 per guest in Interior, Oceanview and Balcony, $15.50 per guest in Mini-Suite and Reserve Collection, $16.50 per guest in Suites. Effective on voyages departing February 20, 2023 and beyond, the daily amount is $16 per guest in Interior, Oceanview and Balcony, $17 per guest in Mini-Suite and Reserve Collection, and $18 per guest in Suites

[davekathy]

Not just Princess. At least we have choices. I don't concern myself about what the staff makes, how gratuities are divided up, or their workload. That's between the employee and the employer. If I don't care about something about the cruise, I annotate it on our PCS, for what it's worth. 

[Ken the cruiser]

I saw this comparison chart on a recent NCL thread and thought it was an interesting comparison. From the way it looks, Princess' daily gratuity charges for a 7-day double-occupancy cruise looks pretty much in the middle when compared to the other cruise lines.

 

Cruise Line	Standard Service Fee	Premium Service Fee
Norwegian Cruise Line	$280.00	$350.00
Oceania Cruises	$252.00	$322.00
Celebrity Cruise Line	$245.00	$294.00
Carnival Cruise Line	$224.00	$252.00
Holland America Line	$224.00	$245.00
Princess Cruises	$224.00	$252.00
Royal Caribbean International	$224.00	$259.00
Disney Cruise Line	$203.00	$217.00
MSC Cruises	$196.00	$196.00
Costa Cruise Line	$168.00	$168.00
Windstar Cruises	$168.00	$168.00
Cunard Cruise Line	$161.00	$189.00

 

NCL wins the service charge race ! - Page 3 - Norwegian Cruise Line - Cruise Critic Community

 

 

[NavyCruiser]

Our group of 14 just came back from a 7 nights Valentine's week cruise.  We all agree to pool our cash "tips" together for our Waiter, Asst Waiter, & Section Head Waiter, who took care of our tables of 6 & 8 in the MDR.  Also "tipped" our cabin attendant in cash.  All with cash "tips" half on first day & half on 6th day.  We "tipped" extra for lobster night.  It took less than 2 minutes at customer service desk to remove auto grats for all 7 cabins at the same time on the first day.  We all also "tipped" extra at breakfasts, lunches, & tea time for our group.

In all, think we all cash "tipped" 20% over & above the auto grats amount if we just left it alone, but everyone believed that we truly received Outstanding service for all staff.

This is our preferred way to "tip" as a group.

We've done it this way for 10+ group cruises, from groups of 12 - 40.

Not right.  Not wrong.  Just the perfect way for us, & don't really what others feel about it...

[roadster08]

The world is changing my friend. I'm beginning to think it is changing at an even  faster rate than it did in the 1960's -- and that was one wild ride, at least here in the US.

 

Back to your point. Yes, like everything else, inflation is pushing up the cost of cruising. Some people who used to be able to cruise are reconsidering whether its still worth it.

 

I don't like being told I have to tip an extra  amount but for me it's maybe skipping a spa treatment or a specialty dinner. For the crew those increases could mean the difference between being able to continue affording their own home or being forced to live elsewhere.  

 

Cruising has always been a privilege as much as a right. I'm not criticizing nor judging you. All I'm suggesting is that you consider holding yourself to a higher standard when you enjoy your next cruise. 

[eclue]

The gratuity charges are getting out of control...We eat only in the buffet - do not use the dining room at all....we remove the auto gratuity from our account early in the cruise and we hand pay our room steward generously. We also tip bar service in the casino and waiters in the buffet...I think adding all those others is a bit out of line...

[lesnpatty]

14 minutes ago, NavyCruiser said:

Our group of 14 just came back from a 7 nights Valentine's week cruise.  We all agree to pool our cash "tips" together for our Waiter, Asst Waiter, & Section Head Waiter, who took care of our tables of 6 & 8 in the MDR.  Also "tipped" our cabin attendant in cash.  All with cash "tips" half on first day & half on 6th day.  We "tipped" extra for lobster night.  It took less than 2 minutes at customer service desk to remove auto grats for all 7 cabins at the same time on the first day.  We all also "tipped" extra at breakfasts, lunches, & tea time for our group.

In all, think we all cash "tipped" 20% over & above the auto grats amount if we just left it alone, but everyone believed that we truly received Outstanding service for all staff.

This is our preferred way to "tip" as a group.

We've done it this way for 10+ group cruises, from groups of 12 - 40.

Not right.  Not wrong.  Just the perfect way for us, & don't really what others feel about it...

I understand what you did, but this takes money away from all the people working behind the scenes, Assistant stewards, cooks,  buffet workers  and other galley workers, people in the laundry washing all the bed clothes and table linen.  All these people are busting their tails but are not seen? Most of these people are supporting extended families back home and their salary is low die to their expected tips.  Coming from a family that saw my widowed mother housekeeping her entire life to support us, made me realize that it is the behind the scene people that are often over looked. 

[suekel]

I always thought that the daily gratuities were for everyone, customer facing and behind the scene.  What I've heard is that if you remove the automatic gratuities, the tips you pay out individually have to be turned in to be spread out.  But removing the automatic tips, that $50 you give your steward is not $50.  

[toofewcruises]

8 minutes ago, suekel said:

I always thought that the daily gratuities were for everyone, customer facing and behind the scene.  What I've heard is that if you remove the automatic gratuities, the tips you pay out individually have to be turned in to be spread out.  But removing the automatic tips, that $50 you give your steward is not $50.  

Exactly! Navy Cruiser is ill informed 

[SantaFeFan]

1 hour ago, cruzsnooze said:

There are several areas that the newest suggested  gratuity irks me. What used to be reasonable was the dinning room staff and the room steward. Now they have everyone on board included.

 

Gratuities have ALWAYS been split by all in the hotel staff. Nothing has changed. 

 

 

40 minutes ago, eclue said:

The gratuity charges are getting out of control...We eat only in the buffet - do not use the dining room at all....we remove the auto gratuity from our account early in the cruise and we hand pay our room steward generously. We also tip bar service in the casino and waiters in the buffet...I think adding all those others is a bit out of line...

 

The staff in the buffet work the counters supplying the food you eat, right? Then they deserve to be included in the gratuities. Period!

 

The majority of the hotel staff are there to support the people you deal with face to face. They are, and should be, part of the tip pool since the people you interact with couldn't do their jobs without the behind-the-scenes people providing support. 

 

By removing the gratuities and giving them to your hand picked favorites, you are only making more work for those people. When you remove the tips you are not accomplishing what you think. You are wasting your time - and everyone else's.  

 

31 minutes ago, suekel said:

I always thought that the daily gratuities were for everyone, customer facing and behind the scene.  What I've heard is that if you remove the automatic gratuities, the tips you pay out individually have to be turned in to be spread out.  But removing the automatic tips, that $50 you give your steward is not $50.  

 

It has always been that way. Nothing new. Experienced cruisers who actually care about the staff know that it has worked that way since the beginning.

 

Edited February 28, 2023 by SantaFeFan

[antsp]

All tips are pooled fleetwide, removing your tip, removes money from the tip pool, not just for the crew you meet on your ship, but crew on a Princess ship you are not even sailing on. 

[SantaFeFan]

15 minutes ago, antsp said:

All tips are pooled fleetwide, removing your tip, removes money from the tip pool, not just for the crew you meet on your ship, but crew on a Princess ship you are not even sailing on. 

 

Agreed. Removing tips and handing them out individually only succeeds in making more work for everyone. The people receiving cash tips must record who gave them those tips, the amount of the tips, and surrender them to the purser for guest account reconciliation. A cash tip makes more work for several people who must keep track of those tips. 

Edited February 28, 2023 by SantaFeFan

[antsp]

1 minute ago, SantaFeFan said:

 

And the crew on those other ships contribute to the crew on your ship. The way you worded your comment gives the assumption that the people on our cruise get virtually nothing. That is far from the truth since if all tips from all ships are pooled across the entire fleet, everyone shares the accumulated tips equally. No one is being cheated out of their tip income. 

My point was its pooled, if a passenger wants to remove there auto tip its entirely a personal decision, its allowed and done by loads of passengers. That's the way Princess runs its business, right or wrong is for another day

[JGmf]

To me, I see the gratuity charge as part of the price of going on a cruise, like the destination charge when buying a car. 

 

The gratuity fees supplant what should really be better wages for their staff.  Assuming they did provide better wages, then we'd be paying that as part of the base fare. 

 

Either way, we should pay the gratuity as it goes to these hard working staff.

[Guest ldtr]

56 minutes ago, eclue said:

The gratuity charges are getting out of control...We eat only in the buffet - do not use the dining room at all....we remove the auto gratuity from our account early in the cruise and we hand pay our room steward generously. We also tip bar service in the casino and waiters in the buffet...I think adding all those others is a bit out of line...

Keep in mind that the removal of tips is a very trackable performance statistic.  One clearly tied to the assigned steward of your room.  So you may be tipping them, but you might be negatively impacting their career in other ways.

 

I usually chat quite a bit with members of the crew.  I have gotten to know several of them from cruise to cruise.  Enough so that I have had stewards from previous cruises come up to chat, even though I was not in their area on the current cruise.

 

Recently I have gotten the following on what they consider important

 

1. To be mentioned in a positive way on the post cruise survey (it goes a long way to earning various rewards including better future assignments, promotions, and time off)

2. For tips to not be removed.  If their rate for removal goes above the norm it is a negative

 

When I have given additional tips, they have mentioned that the mention on the survey is more important than the additional tip amounts.  Though I still tip them an additional amount  as well, if the level of service justifies it.  Which it usually does.

Edited February 28, 2023 by ldtr

[SantaFeFan]

1 minute ago, antsp said:

My point was its pooled, if a passenger wants to remove there auto tip its entirely a personal decision, its allowed and done by loads of passengers. That's the way Princess runs its business, right or wrong is for another day

 

Sorry, antsp. I reread your post and completely changed my reply (check out the edit). We both agree, and my apologies for misunderstanding your post. 

[Guest ldtr]

1 hour ago, cruzsnooze said:

You're welcome to disagree and present different opinions but insults are not welcome. FLAME SUIT ENGAGED but hopefuuly not needed. 

     There are several areas that the newest suggested  gratuity irks me. What used to be reasonable was the dinning room staff and the room steward. Now they have everyone on board included. Revenue generating areas would be cruise directors (think Bingo) gym classes, shops, shore excursion desk, guest services and of course internet cafe tech, photography dept.   Beside the Captain and officers  who's left out.

      Do different staterooms use different levels of service? There may be a slight difference in the time it takes to service  different cabin categories but not a huge difference and no other service is elevated. Unless in Reserve class the rest remains the same and I'm already paying an elevated service fee in club class. Isn't that $40-$110 PP PD a service fee for club class because it's not higher quality food.  I believe the begging/suggestion of gratuity and who is in the pool has grown to an unreasonable level. It's irrelevant what one can afford it's about fairness and transparency and value. When I extend a gratuity in every case other then on a cruise I know what I'm giving and to whom. 

 

What is a Crew Appreciation?

The crew appreciation is a daily (adjustable) amount added to your onboard account and pooled in order to recognize the many crew members in the Bar, Dining, Entertainment, Housekeeping, Guest Services, Galley and Onboard Revenue areas and entertainment areas throughout our fleet who contribute to the guest experience. The daily amount of the Crew Appreciation is based on stateroom category: $14.50 per guest in Interior, Oceanview and Balcony, $15.50 per guest in Mini-Suite and Reserve Collection, $16.50 per guest in Suites. Effective on voyages departing February 20, 2023 and beyond, the daily amount is $16 per guest in Interior, Oceanview and Balcony, $17 per guest in Mini-Suite and Reserve Collection, and $18 per guest in Suites

Look at it this way depending upon what the US government does concerning additional fees for hotels, airlines, etc, and considering that the largest cruise market is the US, you migth get your wish and have tips go away, because they might just be included in the fares.  At this point that would only effect the basic fares on Princess since for all of the package fares they are included in the fares.

 

The more that withhold the tips, the faster  that day will come.

[Guest ldtr]

5 minutes ago, antsp said:

My point was its pooled, if a passenger wants to remove there auto tip its entirely a personal decision, its allowed and done by loads of passengers. That's the way Princess runs its business, right or wrong is for another day

That is because the cruise lines have to do it that way to be in accordance with US financial reporting (CCL, RCL ,and NCLH are all listed on US stock exchanges).  As long as the passengers have the ability to remove the tips (for packages they can choose not to purchase the package), and as long as all of the money is paid out to the crew then they are not reported as either income or expense to the cruise line and pass outside of financial reporting.

[SantaFeFan]

Just now, ldtr said:

Look at it this way depending upon what the US government does concerning additional fees for hotels, airlines, etc, and considering that the largest cruise market is the US, you migth get your wish and have tips go away, because they might just be included in the fares.  At this point that would only effect the basic fares on Princess since for all of the package fares they are included in the fares.

 

The more that withhold the tips, the faster  that day will come.

 

And the sooner that certain people will no longer be able stiff the crew. And that would be a good thing. 

[antsp]

7 minutes ago, JGmf said:

To me, I see the gratuity charge as part of the price of going on a cruise, like the destination charge when buying a car. 

 

The gratuity fees supplant what should really be better wages for their staff.  Assuming they did provide better wages, then we'd be paying that as part of the base fare. 

 

Either way, we should pay the gratuity as it goes to these hard working staff.

The usa has a strange business model to the rest of the world, the way taxes, fees resorts fees etc are all added on, this would not be allowed in most other countries. The price you see is the price you pay elsewhere, so to have charges and add ons added after paying causes a lot of upset for a lot customers. That's another reason passengers remove the tips

Edited February 28, 2023 by antsp

[SantaFeFan]

1 minute ago, antsp said:

The usa has a strange business model.to the rest of the world. The price you see is the price you pay, so to have charges and add ons added after paying causes a lot of upset for a lot customers. That's another reason passengers remove the tips

 

Not a good reason. As travelers, we all should respect the cultures of the places we visit, including on a cruise ship. To defy a culture because they don't like it is being a selfish traveler. It's no better than visiting another country and disrespecting how they do things there. 

[antsp]

1 minute ago, SantaFeFan said:

 

Not a good reason. As travelers, we all should respect the cultures of the places we visit, including on a cruise ship. To defy a culture because they don't like it is being a selfish traveler. It's no better than visiting another country and disrespecting how they do things there. 

I'm not saying its right, I'm just saying how it is

[antsp]

4 minutes ago, SantaFeFan said:

 

Not a good reason. As travelers, we all should respect the cultures of the places we visit, including on a cruise ship. To defy a culture because they don't like it is being a selfish traveler. It's no better than visiting another country and disrespecting how they do things there. 

I'm not saying its right, I'm just saying this is what lots of passengers do

[donaldsc]

1 hour ago, NavyCruiser said:

Our group of 14 just came back from a 7 nights Valentine's week cruise.  We all agree to pool our cash "tips" together for our Waiter, Asst Waiter, & Section Head Waiter, who took care of our tables of 6 & 8 in the MDR.  Also "tipped" our cabin attendant in cash.  All with cash "tips" half on first day & half on 6th day.  We "tipped" extra for lobster night.  It took less than 2 minutes at customer service desk to remove auto grats for all 7 cabins at the same time on the first day.  We all also "tipped" extra at breakfasts, lunches, & tea time for our group.

In all, think we all cash "tipped" 20% over & above the auto grats amount if we just left it alone, but everyone believed that we truly received Outstanding service for all staff.

This is our preferred way to "tip" as a group.

We've done it this way for 10+ group cruises, from groups of 12 - 40.

Not right.  Not wrong.  Just the perfect way for us, & don't really what others feel about it...

 

Unless I am wrong my understanding is that if you remove the "suggested" automatic gratuity the tips you pay to individuals have to be put into the general tip pool and be split between everyone in the pool as per the formula.  So what you are doing is an wasted exercise in futility.

 

DON

[Rudy888]

I believe that Tips were/are for 1 to 1 service. Employers can monitor the quality of food, the cleanliness of the sheets and towels but it is more difficult to monitor the performance of 1 to 1 service though it can be done. I do not believe tips were/are for distribution to everyone in the chain even though they contribute to 1 to 1 service. The employer has the responsibility to fairly compensate the cooks, janitors, dishwashers etc.

Edited February 28, 2023 by Rudy888