Is Royal Caribbean building any small ships?

[KroozNut]

4 hours ago, Ourusualbeach said:

Take it in context with other Royal ships.

Wrong.. A large ship is a large ship, regardless of how it compares to other large Royal ships.

[Chiliburn]

7 hours ago, Ourusualbeach said:

They have to have a class of shops to replace Vision amd Radiance class.  It will happen. 

That’s right Ken ,it will happen and to add shipping needs to evolve into a carbon neutral industry.

Smaller hybrid or dual fuel ships will be the first step.

Ships to do long distance,big fuel burn with no carbon emissions.
Not to mention ships that are suitable for environmentally sensitive areas.
 

[Analog187]

I asked this to the CD on a recent Carnival cruise and he said that he hasn't heard anything over there but he agreed that all of the lines need newer small ships.  They can't keep these small ships going forever and ports like Tampa can't accommodate the newer ships.  So something has to give at some point.  They'll either build some smaller ships or give up sailing from/to certain ports.  Tampa is rather profitable as they can charge more for the convenience of not having to travel to the other side of Florida.  I know a number of people that will only cruise out of Tampa instead of going on better ships out of PC.  

[Charles4515]

19 hours ago, Chiliburn said:

On 12/17/2023 at 4:38 PM, Ourusualbeach said:

 

That’s right Ken ,it will happen and to add shipping needs to evolve into a carbon neutral industry.

Shipping evolving into a carbon neutral industry won’t happen in a long time if ever….whatever that means. 

[Chiliburn]

11 minutes ago, Charles4515 said:

Shipping evolving into a carbon neutral industry won’t happen in a long time if ever….whatever that means. 

If they don’t reduce emissions there’s BIG fines and they will blocked from ports.

It’s already happening in the Norwegian Fiords.
N.Z, California ,Japan and some European ports won’t be far behind.

[smokeybandit]

Carbon Neutral doesn't truly mean Carbon Neutral. 

[PhillyFan33579]

48 minutes ago, Analog187 said:

I asked this to the CD on a recent Carnival cruise and he said that he hasn't heard anything over there but he agreed that all of the lines need newer small ships.  They can't keep these small ships going forever and ports like Tampa can't accommodate the newer ships.  So something has to give at some point.  They'll either build some smaller ships or give up sailing from/to certain ports.  Tampa is rather profitable as they can charge more for the convenience of not having to travel to the other side of Florida.  I know a number of people that will only cruise out of Tampa instead of going on better ships out of PC.  

Just an FYI, the problem isn’t that the port can’t accommodate bigger ships. The problem is bigger ships can’t fit under the Skyway Bridge. Additionally, RCI cruises out of Tampa are some of the cheapest in Florida. I have lived in the Tampa area since 2012. Despite the lower prices in Tampa, I rarely cruise out of there since I enjoy the bigger ships, although I am cruising on Constellation next month. 

[Charles4515]

1 minute ago, PhillyFan33579 said:

Additionally, RCI cruises out of Tampa are some of the cheapest in Florida

Cruises out of Baltimore are cheap too. Is Royal going to build ships for a couple of fringe markets? Royal seems to be the cruise line of gargantuan ships. I think Royal might keep the ships doing Tampa and Baltimore for as long as they are seaworthy but new ships that can sail into and out of those ports, hmm. 

[Analog187]

5 minutes ago, PhillyFan33579 said:

Just an FYI, the problem isn’t that the port can’t accommodate bigger ships. The problem is bigger ships can’t fit under the Skyway Bridge.

 

That's what I meant.  

 

5 minutes ago, PhillyFan33579 said:

Additionally, RCI cruises out of Tampa are some of the cheapest in Florida. I have lived in the Tampa area since 2012. Despite the lower prices in Tampa, I rarely cruise out of there since I enjoy the bigger ships, although I am cruising on Constellation next month. 

 

As a travel agent, that has not been my experience.  I guess it depends on how you compare things.  Looking at March 2024 for example, Enchantment starts at $732 for a 7 night whereas Odyssey has an 8 night for 756.  

[Another_Critic]

1 hour ago, Charles4515 said:

Cruises out of Baltimore are cheap too.

Used to be, but not anymore.

[Saab4444]

3 hours ago, Charles4515 said:

Cruises out of Baltimore are cheap too. Is Royal going to build ships for a couple of fringe markets? Royal seems to be the cruise line of gargantuan ships. I think Royal might keep the ships doing Tampa and Baltimore for as long as they are seaworthy but new ships that can sail into and out of those ports, hmm. 

It‘s not all about US and Florida ports. They need smaller ships for other regions in the World if they want to remain a global cruise  operator.

[Chiliburn]

5 hours ago, smokeybandit said:

Carbon Neutral doesn't truly mean Carbon Neutral. 

Is that like if you’re pregnant,it doesn’t really mean you’re pregnant. LOL 

[Charles4515]

2 hours ago, Saab4444 said:

It‘s not all about US and Florida ports. They need smaller ships for other regions in the World if they want to remain a global cruise  operator.

They will build smaller ships someday but they probably won’t be small. I would expect smaller to be super quantum class size. 

[Mick B]

This is an interesting thing.

 

Royal still has some Vision class ships in operation and although they are showing their age, they are prefect for the type of cruise that they are used for.

 

And here's the thing.

New Oasis class ships...

Massive and can be restricted at some ports, not just because of their size for docking, but also to get under things like bridges (although some can at lower tides or by lowering funnels etc), and the impact to the port that a large amount of people can have in one go for various reasons.

 

On the other hand, some ports (like St Maarten) have had several smaller cruise ships pull up at the same time which puts more footfall on that port. Some ports welcome this and others don't and that can affect the itinerary of your cruise.

And that brings us to another thing.

The ship being the main destination. Some of the biggest ships built only seem to go out for 3, 4 or 7 day cruises which normally only visit the same ports time after time and normally include a private island/destination belonging to the cruise line.

It could be that in the little time you spend on board that there is so much to do and see that there is no time to get off and if you do get off at a private destination then the cruise line is going to probably make even more money from you as you will probably want to do everything there too.

 

Another thing about the biggest ships is that for a lot of people living close to the ports where they sail is that air fare is not a requirement, although on site parking can be a pain/expense. For people like me coming from the UK, flying for 10 hours to Miami to get on a ship for 4 nights is a no-no. But even trying to do a B2B staying in the same cabin and having different ports of call for each leg is hard and can require a change of ship to make a 12-14 night cruise and that's a no-no too.

 

Now for those slightly smaller and older ships, longer itineraries can include TAs which can mean travelling in less style and through rough sea with many days at sea, so newbies would probably avoid these. These cruises are normally fairly cheap, so enjoy whilst you can, because one day these ships will need replacing and even if someone at RCI decides to build a newer version of a Vision class ship, someone else at RCI will decide to fill it with roller coasters and anything else they can squeeze in that they can charge for.

 

Venice in Italy no longer allows ships over a certain weight (can't remember exactly what it is but I think somewhere around 25,000 tonnes), but no new cruise ship will ever be built that small (Vision class was around 70,000 tonnes IIRC). Amsterdam is another port that is in the process of doing a similar thing. Norway is another that will limit ships at certain ports.

So straight away, regardless of size, itineraries are now becoming limited.

Some ports only offer tendering and the bigger the ship the longer that process takes which results in your time spent at that destination being cut down. So being able to do a bucket list of ports whilst being in a certain part of the world may become impossible. Its a sad thing, and I am only glad to have the memories of visiting some of these ports knowing that if I want to return to them then flying to them is my only way to do so - oh the irony of doing that if environmental issues is the main/only reason for banning the ships!

 

I can only suggest this, if you have the money and the time to enjoy your cruising holidays then go and enjoy them whilst you still can.

Regardless of what fuel and environmental rules come into play, eventually due to age, all ships will have to be scrapped/sold off and the new ones will probably be built to cram in as many passengers as possible and only go to certain ports for just a few days at a time.

 

Mick.

 

 

Edited December 19, 2023 by Mick B
spelling

[smokeybandit]

4 hours ago, Chiliburn said:

Is that like if you’re pregnant,it doesn’t really mean you’re pregnant. LOL 

It's like calling yourself vegetarian but still eating fish.

[twangster]

Tampa I don't think it a strategic port for Royal.  They make money there, but it's a small market.  Quite frankly it's a PITA for anyone that has to cross I4 to get there.  My last two cruises took 3 hours to get home from Tampa to the east coast of Florida near Port Canaveral.  

 

If I'm going to drive in heavy interstate traffic for 3 hours I might as well go to Miami, which itself is a PITA to drive to from Central Florida.  That last hour seems like 5.  For the same stressful 3 hour drive I have a plethora of ships and lines to choose from in Miami.  Then there are the itineraries that are more challenged from Tampa.  Hard to do a 3 night from Tampa.  Four night cruises tend to be Cozumel only.  

 

Then there is the fog.  I had fog threaten my arrival a few weeks ago in Tampa.  In 2019 I spent the day floating outside the bridge due to Tampa fog.   Ported at 4pm.  PITA.

 

For folks on the west coast of Central Florida Tampa may be convenient but not for many other folks.   Once I am there I like the small port feel and easy bortading process but other than that Tampa isn't that appealing. 

[Biker19]

2 hours ago, twangster said:

If I'm going to drive in heavy interstate traffic for 3 hours I might as well go to Miami, which itself is a PITA to drive to from Central Florida.  That last hour seems like 5.  For the same stressful 3 hour drive I have a plethora of ships and lines to choose from in Miami. 

Brightline is trying to make that a bit easier (eventually to Tampa as well).

[twangster]

17 hours ago, Biker19 said:

Brightline is trying to make that a bit easier (eventually to Tampa as well).

 

If they open more stations maybe, but driving to MCO airport and paying MCO parking rates to take a train makes Brightline kinda pointless for anyone outside of Orlando or the immediate vicinity.  

[nana51]

On 6/13/2023 at 2:43 PM, jakeil7 said:

Just think about when these ships came out, a “small” ship was something like Empress of the Seas which was under 50k GT.  Now we might consider the Voyager and Freedom class “small”. I suppose it is all relative in the end. 

I think you can find deals on the smaller ships also. 

[ONECRUISER]

On 12/19/2023 at 9:28 AM, twangster said:

Tampa I don't think it a strategic port for Royal.  They make money there, but it's a small market.  Quite frankly it's a PITA for anyone that has to cross I4 to get there.  My last two cruises took 3 hours to get home from Tampa to the east coast of Florida near Port Canaveral.  

 

If I'm going to drive in heavy interstate traffic for 3 hours I might as well go to Miami, which itself is a PITA to drive to from Central Florida.  That last hour seems like 5.  For the same stressful 3 hour drive I have a plethora of ships and lines to choose from in Miami.  Then there are the itineraries that are more challenged from Tampa.  Hard to do a 3 night from Tampa.  Four night cruises tend to be Cozumel only.  

 

Then there is the fog.  I had fog threaten my arrival a few weeks ago in Tampa.  In 2019 I spent the day floating outside the bridge due to Tampa fog.   Ported at 4pm.  PITA.

 

For folks on the west coast of Central Florida Tampa may be convenient but not for many other folks.   Once I am there I like the small port feel and easy boarding process but other than that Tampa isn't that appealing. 

Though Interesting as Royal is keeping 3 Ships there at a time, 5 different Ships during 2024-2025

[twangster]

9 minutes ago, ONECRUISER said:

Though Interesting as Royal is keeping 3 Ships there at a time, 5 different Ships during 2024-2025

 

They make money there and while they have small ships they will put them in ports that make money, but strategically I don't see them going out of their way to design a new class of ship with Tampa in mind.  

 

Will west coast FL residents switch cruise lines to Carnival or Celebrity if Royal stopped sailing from Tampa in 5 to 10 years?  Or will that market do the drive to another FL port?  Switching to X is a win for RCG so will Royal really go out their way just to stop Royal cruisers from sailing Carnival from Tampa?  

[Another_Critic]

32 minutes ago, twangster said:

Will west coast FL residents switch cruise lines to Carnival or Celebrity if Royal stopped sailing from Tampa in 5 to 10 years?  Or will that market do the drive to another FL port?  Switching to X is a win for RCG so will Royal really go out their way just to stop Royal cruisers from sailing Carnival from Tampa?  

X Millennium class ships are the same age or older than Radiance class.  Can any other X class sail from Tampa?

 

Edited December 20, 2023 by Another_Critic

[Charles4515]

1 hour ago, Another_Critic said:

X Millennium class ships are the same age or older than Radiance class.  Can any other X class sail from Tampa?

Millenium class and Radiance class were built on the same hull design. I don't think any other X class can sail from Tampa. Vision class was before RCG bought Celebrity and the pre takeover ships are gone. If they build a new class that can do Tampa they could use the same hull design. 

Edited December 20, 2023 by Charles4515

[latebuyer]

Glad to see this thread is still active! I still hope to see some small ships built. I’m trying out princess but it also seems they are skeptical about princess building small ships too. I wonder if the cruise companies are looking at each other to see what others are doing. Maybe they prefer to be secret about it for competitive reasons.

[ONECRUISER]

10 hours ago, twangster said:

 

They make money there and while they have small ships they will put them in ports that make money, but strategically I don't see them going out of their way to design a new class of ship with Tampa in mind.  

 

Will west coast FL residents switch cruise lines to Carnival or Celebrity if Royal stopped sailing from Tampa in 5 to 10 years?  Or will that market do the drive to another FL port?  Switching to X is a win for RCG so will Royal really go out their way just to stop Royal cruisers from sailing Carnival from Tampa?  

Now into 2026 only one Celebrity Ship there, same Ship for 2024-2026, and they will be in same position as they keep building the Mega Ships. I'd like see Royal Build another Radiance-ish size Ship in the Future, Class was Built with best of Vision and Voyager Class, a nice fit.