Is Royal Caribbean building any small ships?

[PhillyFan33579]

13 hours ago, latebuyer said:

I think they are shooting themselves in the foot as a lot of ports don't like these mega ships and it means more ports refusing cruise ships altogether unfortunately.

I think you are completely missing where RCI is headed. RCI is clearly moving to the ship being the destination with more focus on visiting their private ports. The fact that a lot of ports can’t accommodate larger ships is more or less irrelevant. 

[FamilyCruiserUK]

10 hours ago, c-leg5 said:

There is a physical limitation as to how far you can go, there and back, in a week or short break.
 

Longer cruises go to different ports but then you are generally looking at a different consumer group.

Exactly, a short one week cruise means more passengers compared to a two week cruise. Also i would imagine alot of people who live close to florida ports go on a lot of small 4-7 day cruises as they are cheap, well compaired to UK prices. Also good weather to get away for a few days. I cant think of many two week cruises from florida, mostly rcl cruises are sold as 1 week and if people want longer they go B2B. 

The huge ships in europe do the same itinerary as they have been doing for years. (Esp from barcelona very boring) so the ship is often the destination. The smaller ones do better stops, greek isles, Croatia (Stunning btw) but then they are getting old but people who have been on the newer bigger ships want more.

 

[Chiliburn]

I think another thing people should think about is a small new ship would have to run of LNG

LNG storage takes a lot of space and would a smaller ship be economical in passenger to space capacity terms.

Edited June 14, 2023 by Chiliburn

[twangster]

The ports that have limited, or are trying to limit cruise ships are mostly targeting smaller ships as well.  Key West would have banned Empress, Sovereign, Vision and Radiance class had their ban held up.

 

In some cases all that are allowed are ships with fewer or well under the 1,000 person capacity size including crew.

 

There is no way any mass market line to going to build ships small enough that they would make it under the thresholds that are being established in places that are banning or limiting cruise ships by size.  

 

Some ports will never again be called upon by mass market ships regardless.  To the mass market cruise segment that is inconsequential.  

 

Edited June 14, 2023 by twangster

[lovesthebeach2]

4 hours ago, FamilyCruiserUK said:

Exactly, a short one week cruise means more passengers compared to a two week cruise. Also i would imagine alot of people who live close to florida ports go on a lot of small 4-7 day cruises as they are cheap, well compaired to UK prices. Also good weather to get away for a few days. I cant think of many two week cruises from florida, mostly rcl cruises are sold as 1 week and if people want longer they go B2B. 

The huge ships in europe do the same itinerary as they have been doing for years. (Esp from barcelona very boring) so the ship is often the destination. The smaller ones do better stops, greek isles, Croatia (Stunning btw) but then they are getting old but people who have been on the newer bigger ships want more.

 

Oddly we live in between Port Canaveral and Tampa cruise ports and many of our cruises are long ones to Europe or longer TA ones back to FL. When we cruise here we prefer Tampa port because it’s much less busy and parking is easier.  Our last few cruise from Pt Canaveral the parking was crazy and we couldn’t even get into the garage. 

[FamilyCruiserUK]

9 minutes ago, lovesthebeach2 said:

Oddly we live in between Port Canaveral and Tampa cruise ports and many of our cruises are long ones to Europe or longer TA ones back to FL. When we cruise here we prefer Tampa port because it’s much less busy and parking is easier.  Our last few cruise from Pt Canaveral the parking was crazy and we couldn’t even get into the garage. 

Miami was a little crazy in feb with all the traffic and whistles going on constantly so i understand what you mean. We will be staying with European cruises from now on..easier to get too from the UK and just more chilled check in, in my experience

[lovesthebeach2]

9 hours ago, Charles4515 said:

I sailed on her too. She had the best Bermuda itinerary. All three Bermuda ports. St. George’s, Hamilton and the Dockyard. 

Yes and the best part was cruising INTO the ports. No ships can do that now. They’re too big 

[smokeybandit]

I still wonder if RC, instead of building small, won't just buy a struggling cruise line that sunk a bunch of money into new (but smaller) ships in the last 10 years.

[orville99]

11 minutes ago, smokeybandit said:

I still wonder if RC, instead of building small, won't just buy a struggling cruise line that sunk a bunch of money into new (but smaller) ships in the last 10 years.

Didn't they just do that by purchasing Silversea?

[smokeybandit]

3 minutes ago, orville99 said:

Didn't they just do that by purchasing Silversea?

Silversea is a niche luxury line with tiny (in comparison to the typical RC ship) ships, not one that could replace Vision/Radiance class ships.

[Charles4515]

56 minutes ago, lovesthebeach2 said:

Yes and the best part was cruising INTO the ports. No ships can do that now. They’re too big 

There are ships that can sail into St. George’s and Hamilton. I did one a few years ago on Oceania. Only a few sailings though. I was planning to repeat this September but the dates conflicted with a family reunion. Was on sale and they offered a pretty good deal. They are doing the same next year but over a year out the prices are still high. I will watch sales.  With sale prices they are not much more than Celebrity.

[lovesthebeach2]

1 minute ago, Charles4515 said:

There are ships that can sail into St. George’s and Hamilton. I did one a few years ago on Oceania. Only a few sailings though. I was planning to repeat this September but the dates conflicted with a family reunion. Was on sale and they offered a pretty good deal. They are doing the same next year but over a year out the prices are still high. I will watch sales.  With sale prices they are not much more than Celebrity.

I meant royal ships. Maybe Grandeur but not many since they’re currently building all large ships.

I would love to do that cruise again and sail right into Hamilton and St George

[Charles4515]

4 minutes ago, lovesthebeach2 said:

I meant royal ships. Maybe Grandeur but not many since they’re currently building all large ships.

I would love to do that cruise again and sail right into Hamilton and St George

Grandeur can only dock at the Dockyard. Royal has no ships that can dock at Hamilton or St. George. And Oasis class or anything larger than super Quantum size can’t dock anywhere in Bermuda because the channels are too narrow. I am sure there are many ports that because of bridges and channels will have a limit on ship size. 

[orville99]

13 minutes ago, smokeybandit said:

Silversea is a niche luxury line with tiny (in comparison to the typical RC ship) ships, not one that could replace Vision/Radiance class ships.

No, but since you were the one that introduced the concept of RCL buying a small ship line, I was simply pointing out that they have already done that once, so there is no reason to believe that they wouldn't do that again.

 

Silversea is a cruise line that would attract the older/no kids couples with disposable income who are now a growing demographic for the Radiance class ships.

The structural "bones" of the new 55 GT Silversea Nova class ships could conceivably be reconfigured to go from an all suites 800 passenger ship to a Radiance class replacement ship. 

[orville99]

24 minutes ago, Charles4515 said:

There are ships that can sail into St. George’s and Hamilton.

Our very first cruise was on HAL's Veendam from NYC to Bermuda, and we docked right in the center of Hamilton close to where the ferry docks are now. That brings back memories.

[latebuyer]

8 hours ago, PhillyFan33579 said:

I think you are completely missing where RCI is headed. RCI is clearly moving to the ship being the destination with more focus on visiting their private ports. The fact that a lot of ports can’t accommodate larger ships is more or less irrelevant. 

I guess i am a person who cruises primarily to visit ports so i find that too bad. 

[latebuyer]

Is it only me or are these larger ships more expensive then smaller ships. It seems cruising will become more expensive than less expensive.

[lovesthebeach2]

13 hours ago, jakeil7 said:

 Can I ask what may be considered a rude question?  What did you pay for that trip?

Because I’m one of those excel nuts, I do know what we paid…..$2,400 for the 7 night cruise.
It was not too long after 9/11 and not pleasant to cruise past the site which was still smoldering or at least it smelled like it, but it was also a holiday cruise for July 4th. Which Bermuda went all out for us with American flags and fireworks. Honestly even though the ship was very old and not at all like what’s out there today, it was without a doubt in our mind, the best cruise we’ve ever been on, not including the special destination places we’ve been.

[neverbeenhere]

I've got the crew for these smaller 'ships".

 

[Charles4515]

22 minutes ago, lovesthebeach2 said:

Honestly even though the ship was very old and not at all like what’s out there today, it was without a doubt in our mind, the best cruise we’ve ever been on, not including the special destination

Because it was an older ship the crew went all out for the passengers to make it a great cruise. 

Edited June 14, 2023 by Charles4515

[lovesthebeach2]

14 minutes ago, Charles4515 said:

Because it was an older ship the crew went all out for the passengers to make it a great cruise. 

It was not just that. Actually the only crew member we remember was the cruise director. It was the family/friend feeling we all had towards each other. Being a small ship, we got to know or at least see and acknowledge everyone on the ship.

To me…. and this is only the way I feel, the large ships now are like being in a resort when on the beach,  like walking around in the mall when inside walking the promenade, and like being in Vegas for the entertainment. All very impersonal. 

[PhillyFan33579]

1 hour ago, latebuyer said:

I guess i am a person who cruises primarily to visit ports so i find that too bad. 

For better or worse, and that likely varies from one person to the next, the cruise industry has significantly changed over the last few decades. 

[jakeil7]

1 hour ago, lovesthebeach2 said:

Because I’m one of those excel nuts, I do know what we paid…..$2,400 for the 7 night cruise.

So I translated that to 2023 dollars which is a bit over $4k. I am assuming that was the cabin rate and not the per person rate. That probably could cover as JS on a large ship these days or, if you search hard enough, a full suite (I managed this last year for a suite on NCL’s Getaway).  The full suite level is where you can still get that level of service you are looking for with the hotel in a hotel concept.  Let’s face it - when a normal inside room might be 1/3rd of that cost, you have to give something up. My analysis might be totally messed up as well. 
 

As for the ports - no solution there except cruising with one of the next tier up brands (Celebrity, HAL, Princess, etc). Royal is focused on keeping its passengers under their control for as much time as they can. Not something I have an issue with, but I can see others who do

[lovesthebeach2]

3 minutes ago, jakeil7 said:

So I translated that to 2023 dollars which is a bit over $4k. I am assuming that was the cabin rate and not the per person rate. That probably could cover as JS on a large ship these days or, if you search hard enough, a full suite (I managed this last year for a suite on NCL’s Getaway).  The full suite level is where you can still get that level of service you are looking for with the hotel in a hotel concept.  Let’s face it - when a normal inside room might be 1/3rd of that cost, you have to give something up. My analysis might be totally messed up as well. 
 

As for the ports - no solution there except cruising with one of the next tier up brands (Celebrity, HAL, Princess, etc). Royal is focused on keeping its passengers under their control for as much time as they can. Not something I have an issue with, but I can see others who do

Yes that was the cabin rate for us both. Cruises 20 years ago were not cheap.

I have no issue with royals focus, but it’s sad for those who dont cruise just for the ship

[Ourusualbeach]

2 hours ago, latebuyer said:

Is it only me or are these larger ships more expensive then smaller ships. It seems cruising will become more expensive than less expensive.

Take a look at balcony cabins on the smaller ships and you will find that by and large they are significantly more than the larger ships.  The smaller ships have very few balconies and they command a hefty premium