Are most of us just spoiled?

[Bridget2]

We just finished our third cruise Princess to Alaska.  It was ok but somewhat disappointing.  So we're thinking of switching lines.  I'm perusing CC for a new cruise line.  Looking at Holland America.  Their general rating is only .1 higher than Princess.  Celebrity is a bit higher but not a lot.  So just for reference I checked out Regent and the rating is also just average!  I look at the reviews and everyone everywhere is complaining about the same things:  service and food are hit or miss, little communication,  staff knows nothing, etc. etc.  So my question is are we all just spoiled remembering our precovid cruises better than they really were?  Or are all the lines going downhill?

[Toofarfromthesea]

18 minutes ago, Bridget2 said:

We just finished our third cruise Princess to Alaska.  It was ok but somewhat disappointing.  So we're thinking of switching lines.  I'm perusing CC for a new cruise line.  Looking at Holland America.  Their general rating is only .1 higher than Princess.  Celebrity is a bit higher but not a lot.  So just for reference I checked out Regent and the rating is also just average!  I look at the reviews and everyone everywhere is complaining about the same things:  service and food are hit or miss, little communication,  staff knows nothing, etc. etc.  So my question is are we all just spoiled remembering our precovid cruises better than they really were?  Or are all the lines going downhill?

 

I think it is more a case that the complainers are more likely to be vocal than the satisfied people.

 

But of course we are spoiled.  People who take cruises have it better than more than 95% of the people on the planet.  Maybe 99%.

[Bridget2]

I think you're right!  My husband said for what we paid if you break it down per day (and many pay more than we did) that people have a right to expect more.

[StollyBolly]

The complainers are always louder (unfortunately).  We had some real blips on our first Regent cruise.   They were addressed and could not have done more to ensure our cruise experience was worth the money.  We came back for 3 more, and they were fabulous.  Yes, there is the odd evening when maybe service in the main restaurant is slower than you expect.   The crew are people too.  They work long hours and maybe have to cover for a colleague one evening.  They usually make it right.  Steak not right?   They fix it. 
 

I’m just relaying one example.  

 

I’m not sure where the cruise lines are rated, but I stand by my comments about complainers. 
 

I hope you enjoy your next cruise experience more 
 

 

[navybankerteacher]

1 hour ago, Bridget2 said:

We just finished our third cruise Princess to Alaska.  It was ok but somewhat disappointing.  So we're thinking of switching lines.  I'm perusing CC for a new cruise line.  Looking at Holland America.  Their general rating is only .1 higher than Princess.  Celebrity is a bit higher but not a lot.  So just for reference I checked out Regent and the rating is also just average!  I look at the reviews and everyone everywhere is complaining about the same things:  service and food are hit or miss, little communication,  staff knows nothing, etc. etc.  So my question is are we all just spoiled remembering our precovid cruises better than they really were?  Or are all the lines going downhill?

Anyone with a working memory, and some experience, can confirm your last line.  Pretty much all the lines - certainly the likes of HAL, Princess, Cunard, Royal Caribbean, Celebrity, Carnival and (especially) NCL are competing in a race to the bottom.  How can any thinking person recognize that most cruise fares are very close to where they were 20 years ago without realizing that those fares must be buying less.

 

Quality of food, level of service, included dining venues, music, variety of entertainment, even such trivial things as prizes offered for trivia contests -- have been degraded.  Yes - even if your memory just goes back 4 years  to "precovid cruises" you have to see what is happening, if you experienced cruising pre-2003 (20 years back) you would realize that cruising is utterly different.

[Hlitner]

OMG No!  Spoiled is just not the proper term.  I prefer to think that most of us want what we pay for....not less.  Why should we settle for lesser quality, at higher prices?  Some might call it being spoiled, and yes, I plead guilty to being spoiled (for over 50 years) by the wonderful cruise industry.  Should we lower our expectations?  No way.  

 

Speaking of Holland America, we are 5* Mariners on that line (their highest category other than their somewhat secret "Presidents Club") and recently finished a 42 day cruise on their Westerdam.  The overall product was not even close to their previous excellent standards (in terms of cuisine, service and entertainment.  For us, it means our next 3 long cruises are on Explora Journeys (a new luxury line), Princess and Oceania.  And if none of them meet my standards (in terms of value) we will look elsewhere.  

 

If we lower our standards, the product (cruise lines) will fulfill our expectations.  As customers we need to demand the highest standards and not simply acquiesce to cut-backs along with the higher prices.

 

Hank

[jsn55]

I think Stolly Bolly has the best summation of 'good service' at any level.  "We had some real blips on our first Regent cruise.   They were addressed and could not have done more to ensure our cruise experience was worth the money"

 

Mistakes are made often in life.  It's how they're dealt with that makes for good service.  I'm assuming that major cruiselines are concerned about their financial future.  They spent billions during the virus disaster with no revenue stream, and their war chests are probably almost empty.  I'm a businesswoman, I understand how business runs.  It's simply good business to cut expenses when revenue is lower. 

 

But it's the way the 'lesser service' is handled ... if the water is shut off in an entire section of the ship for 7 hours, those pax should not be ignored, but should receive a gesture of good will for having to put up with it.  If a ship can't afford to put on a decent production show, they should announce that in the morning ... well before I sit down in the theatre to be entertained by a woman playing a violin.  Being treated like I'm of no importance does not generate any loyalty in me, nor does it for many people.  

[SPacificbound]

2 hours ago, Bridget2 said:

We just finished our third cruise Princess to Alaska.  It was ok but somewhat disappointing.  So we're thinking of switching lines.  I'm perusing CC for a new cruise line.  Looking at Holland America.  Their general rating is only .1 higher than Princess.  Celebrity is a bit higher but not a lot.  So just for reference I checked out Regent and the rating is also just average!  I look at the reviews and everyone everywhere is complaining about the same things:  service and food are hit or miss, little communication,  staff knows nothing, etc. etc.  So my question is are we all just spoiled remembering our precovid cruises better than they really were?  Or are all the lines going downhill?

Your last two sentences, I have wondered that.

 

Having not been on a cruise ship since 2017, I have no idea of the answers. I do know that pretty much in any area of travel, the person who is not happy is way more likely to comment than the person who is happy with their experience, because it is what they expected or better.

 

Two months from now we will be moving into the second week of b2b on Celebrity Summit. I guess we will find out. Up front I expect to be happy.

[navybankerteacher]

54 minutes ago, Hlitner said:

..

 

Speaking of Holland America, we are 5* Mariners on that line (their highest category other than their somewhat secret "Presidents Club") and recently finished a 42 day cruise on their Westerdam.  The overall product was not even close to their previous excellent standards (in terms of cuisine, service and entertainment. ...

 

Hank

Speaking of HAL - a few years back there was live music in the evening in the main dining room, there was fresh squeezed orange juice at breakfast -- at no extra charge, there was top quality food (INCLUDED IN YOUR FARE) well prepared and well served, there were well-stocked and staffed libraries, there even used to be promenade decks which circled the ships (now only on their older ones).

[Joebucks]

While many people here will fight to the death about why they deserve whatever it is they want, it is true, we are spoiled. Cruising has changed every decade, and will continue to. It couldn't be more clearer that the old model isn't what everyone today wants. Some say they want it, but at today's prices. Some want it, and can get it if they want. If a line modifies its product, the market can decide if the changes are not fair. They rarely do though.

 

There are billions of people in the world that will never be able to afford such a vacation. Think of that very first cruise for a lot of people. Even if it was on a cheap mass-market, to the Bahamas. For many (of us) that trip had its magic. It was an experience that was new. There was entertainment. There were beautiful ports. There was surely some food for you. Now we poo poo on almost everything because we've been there, or expect something else. 

 

Remember, an experience is not allowed to change. Ever. Cruise lines are not impacted by having shareholders, disruptions in supply chains/labor costs, surging inflation, changing customer behavior, and so much more. My parents and grandparents would have loved to do what I can do. They were lucky to go to the beach at the great lakes for a weekend. 

 

Do we have to love every change? Absolutely not. Are we spoiled though. Absolutely.

[ldubs]

3 hours ago, navybankerteacher said:

Anyone with a working memory, and some experience, can confirm your last line.  Pretty much all the lines - certainly the likes of HAL, Princess, Cunard, Royal Caribbean, Celebrity, Carnival and (especially) NCL are competing in a race to the bottom.  How can any thinking person recognize that most cruise fares are very close to where they were 20 years ago without realizing that those fares must be buying less.

 

Quality of food, level of service, included dining venues, music, variety of entertainment, even such trivial things as prizes offered for trivia contests -- have been degraded.  Yes - even if your memory just goes back 4 years  to "precovid cruises" you have to see what is happening, if you experienced cruising pre-2003 (20 years back) you would realize that cruising is utterly different.

 

Compared to 20 years ago, current fares are remarkably low, at least on the mainstream lines.   I think we are paying the same or even less per day on average these days for a balcony than we did 20+ years ago for an inside.   There is still a lot of value to be had, but, like you say,  it is certainly a different product.   

[Bridget2]

After thinking a lot here's the conclusion I've come to.  Our biggest gripe is that no one seemed to know anything.  We were given incorrect information repeatedly.  Others were too.  And that is a big deal.  Absence of mints on the pillow and lava cake are small disappointments perhaps because they must save money somewhere.  Understandable.  But staff should always be trained to have correct information and if they don't know to direct guests to someone who does know.  And I'm seeing this complaint across the board.

[jsn55]

1 hour ago, Bridget2 said:

After thinking a lot here's the conclusion I've come to.  Our biggest gripe is that no one seemed to know anything.  We were given incorrect information repeatedly.  Others were too.  And that is a big deal.  Absence of mints on the pillow and lava cake are small disappointments perhaps because they must save money somewhere.  Understandable.  But staff should always be trained to have correct information and if they don't know to direct guests to someone who does know.  And I'm seeing this complaint across the board.

Absolutely!  When I think about it, not much else bothers me and I enjoy most everything on a cruise.  But being given wrong information, or none, is really a problem.  It was a huge problem on Queen Victoria a few years ago.  For one Norway port, we were given a map with a big grey blob in the middle and a couple of lines around the edges ... presumably a lake with some roads?  I can understand pushing the ship's shore excursions, but that was ridiculous.  On our two cruises after the virus, I've just assumed that staff was tough to get, many were new and that it would all even out eventually.  

[mrgabriel]

I think it's a combination of a lot of things but wouldn't make a decision based solely on ratings on this site because look at the name of the website ... we're a bunch of critics 😄

 

We've been noticing how much costs have gone up and service degraded even on land when we go to restaurants so it's no surprise that the same thing is happening on cruises. One small land-based example. I have a favourite steakhouse here in town and the last time I ate there (about 20 years ago) we paid around $160 with drinks and tip for a lovely meal. When we ate there a few months ago the bill was over $300 and they no longer offer tableside service for Caesar salad or Steak Diane ... cutbacks!

 

I agree that the cruiselines need to do a FAR better job of communicating. So many of the issues that come up could be either avoided or resolved if they would be upfront with information AND train their people! Gosh - it is so frustrating to try to call and get an answer. If you're frustrated before you get on the ship then they're going to have to do double-duty to make it up to you. 

[CruiserBruce]

17 hours ago, Toofarfromthesea said:

 

I think it is more a case that the complainers are more likely to be vocal than the satisfied people.

 

But of course we are spoiled.  People who take cruises have it better than more than 95% of the people on the planet.  Maybe 99%.

Better? No. More fortunate? Yes.

[Markanddonna]

We are forced to compare apples to oranges, even on cruises we took less than ten years ago to today's offerings. Ships are way bigger, there are more passengers, the dining experience has declined markedly (unless you eat in the specialty restaurants), the typical passenger has changed, lots of alcohol and excessive drinking sometimes prevail because of drink packages, and the cruise lines are attempting to decrease their expenditures to make up for the COVID years. 

 

Cruising is a lot less appealing to me than it was ten or more years ago. Our last cruise (Celebrity TA) was fantastic, but most of our cruises are meh. Maybe it is because, like many of you, I have been to lots of fantastic places and have so many experiences to which I can compare. I have come to appreciate land travel much more.

[klfrodo]

Spoiled with a side of entitlement. 

[aborgman]

On 6/13/2023 at 8:26 PM, Hlitner said:

Why should we settle for lesser quality, at higher prices?

 

Carnival 3 day cruise to Nassau

1986: $325 ($910 in 2022 dollars)

Today: $420

 

The price of a Carnival 3 day to Nassau is about 1/2 what it was in 1986.

[Hlitner]

6 minutes ago, aborgman said:

 

Carnival 3 day cruise to Nassau

1986: $325 ($910 in 2022 dollars)

Today: $420

 

The price of a Carnival 3 day to Nassau is about 1/2 what it was in 1986.

Ahhhh, but the real issue is that the Carnival of today is not the same as the Carnival of 1986.  That is why I like to post about "value" rather than price.  

 

I have no idea what "spoiled" means as we simply look for the best "value" for our money.  In our experience, most folks who accuse others of being "spoiled" are simply envious/jealous or trying to rationalize their own decision.  So, for example, a person who pays for a HAL Neptune Suite today, may not want to "hear it" when told that HAL has the worst suite amenity package in the cruise industry.  So anyone who books a suite on a competitor where they get a lot more for their money might be accused as being spoiled?  Really?  I would call that person (who books the other line) "wise."

 

Hank

 

 

[George C]

We have done 5 post Covid cruises 4 on celebrity one rccl all in suites, first was perfect but that was a upsell to penthouse, other celebrity I thought food in celebrity suite restaurant went downhill also food in there specialty restaurants. Entertainment was better than ever on celebrity. 
 

Hal cruise was one of our first suites and we were impressed until we tried celebrity , rccl and MSc yacht club all way better than Hal for perks.

[aborgman]

9 minutes ago, Hlitner said:

Ahhhh, but the real issue is that the Carnival of today is not the same as the Carnival of 1986.  That is why I like to post about "value" rather than price.

 

Right... and at half the price, you'd expect half as much for the same "value".

 

If you were getting the same thing for half the price - you'd be getting twice as much value as in 1986.

 

I'd say expecting the same thing, for half the price - or for the market overall to continue to "value" the same things you do - is by definition entitled/spoiled.

 

 

 

[klfrodo]

Why do I say that we are spoiled/entitled?

 

There are a few people on this board who have achieved or inherited a certain level of financial security that has afforded them a sense of expectation that few will ever achieve. They have grown accustomed to a luxury and lack a certain level of empathy or understanding to others struggles.

 

In my opinion, just the ability to enjoy a cruise vacation, let alone many cruise vacations, places many of us in the spoiled/entitled mindset. Especially those of us who sometimes forget "where we came from". Many of us have taken the ability to enjoy a cruise holiday/vacation for granted.

[jsn55]

I will readily admit to being spoiled.  I fly first class and I travel whenever I wish.  Like many of you, 'value' is my bottom line.  I don't waste any money on suites or specialty restaurants and I can almost always get good value from the air.  I don't cruise on Carnival or take public transportation with luggage or sleep in a Motel 6.  So compared to 95% of the population, I'm spoiled.  I think 'spoiled' is often thought to mean 'spoiled brat' and I'm not one of those, nor are most of you.  I am grateful for every single day of every single trip.  

[Hlitner]

9 minutes ago, klfrodo said:

Why do I say that we are spoiled/entitled?

 

There are a few people on this board who have achieved or inherited a certain level of financial security that has afforded them a sense of expectation that few will ever achieve. They have grown accustomed to a luxury and lack a certain level of empathy or understanding to others struggles.

 

In my opinion, just the ability to enjoy a cruise vacation, let alone many cruise vacations, places many of us in the spoiled/entitled mindset. Especially those of us who sometimes forget "where we came from". Many of us have taken the ability to enjoy a cruise holiday/vacation for granted.

We will leave the class warfare to others. For us it is simply a matter of having spent most of our lives working (hard) and making some good choices so that we have the ability to pursue our love of travel. Perhaps that is why we have enjoyed all of our cruises, whether they were in the lowest category cabin on a budget line (once did this on the old Regent Spirit) or in a suite on a luxury ship. 

 

Do we take cruise vacations for granted?  You better believe it!  Why not?   The very idea that one can work hard to achieve some of their goals makes me smile and I have always felt grateful for having been born into a society/country where one has the chance to achieve.    .  

 

Hank   

[cruisemom42]

19 minutes ago, klfrodo said:

In my opinion, just the ability to enjoy a cruise vacation, let alone many cruise vacations, places many of us in the spoiled/entitled mindset. Especially those of us who sometimes forget "where we came from". Many of us have taken the ability to enjoy a cruise holiday/vacation for granted.

 

We should be careful with the words we choose. "Spoiled" has a specific negative connotation. I don't think that just having the ability to enjoy a cruise vacation makes one "spoiled"; I'd say it makes one very fortunate.

 

I also think we should recognize that many of us have worked extremely hard throughout our lives to be in the position that we are in. Not too many of us were born with a silver spoon or inherited a Swiss bank account. We may have been fortunate to have been born in a time and place that allowed us to do this, but that alone is not enough -- one has to put in the effort.

 

Travel has always been a priority in my family. From an early age I was taken on cruises and land travel (including Europe starting in my teens). We weren't wealthy by any means, and we were frugal in our habits in ways that enabled us to spend probably a much higher % of household earnings on travel. Again, I don't think that makes me either spoiled or entitled. I appreciate every trip I go on.

 

The "Spoiled/Entitled" are those that go on a cruise and berate hard-working employees. Or travel to foreign countries and expect everyone to understand English and accept US dollars. Or take pictures and video in shows or museums when it is clear they should not. Or ask to see a manager because their latte is 5 degrees cooler than it should be.